Four years after drafting Winston and Mariota 1 and 2, the Bucs and Titans are in “QB Purgatory”

[YoloinOhio]

Would you sign either to a giant QB deal?

[MJS]

Let me pull out the world's smallest violin...

[Epstein's Mother]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Would you sign either to a giant QB deal?

 

No and No.

[Magox]

Otherwise known as the Tannehill Conundrum 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Let me pull out the world's smallest violin...

That term will always remind me of Doug Whaley 

[RoyBatty is alive]

I just hope Three years from now the Bills aren't in QB purgatory.   I think Minnesota & Arizona are going to be.

Edited January 10, 2019 by RoyBatty is alive

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Great link again Yolo. I absolutely would not want to sign either of these guys to a monster deal. Are they better than what we've trotted out for much of the year outside of Allen? Sure. But that's not the question. Just good enough to avoid a straight up QB housecleaning, but most certainly not good enough to take you to the promised land on their shoulders, which is the ultimate goal (or should be) of any FO. Would you also add someone like Matthew Stafford to this mix? 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Great link again Yolo. I absolutely would not want to sign either of these guys to a monster deal. Are they better than what we've trotted out for much of the year outside of Allen? Sure. But that's not the question. Just good enough to avoid a straight up QB housecleaning, but most certainly not good enough to take you to the promised land on their shoulders, which is the ultimate goal (or should be) of any FO. Would you also add someone like Matthew Stafford to this mix? 

I have heard he could be traded. He is kind of like Cousins in a way. Stat accumulator but not a winner. 

[oldmanfan]

And one of the folks on here who makes grand proclamations about how smart he is at assessing QB play, constantly criticizes Allen,  etc. etc., when that draft was coming up claimed he'd trade an entire draft for Winston.

[BuffAlone]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

That term will always remind me of Doug Whaley 

In fact, I don't ever recall hearing that phrase before Whaley. If he was smart, he'd have patented it and could be collecting royalties now?

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And one of the folks on here who makes grand proclamations about how smart he is at assessing QB play, constantly criticizes Allen,  etc. etc., when that draft was coming up claimed he'd trade an entire draft for Winston.

Who??

[Chandler#81]

Imo, Winston still has more upside, but he’s probably headed for jail by the time he’s 30. Marriota hasn’t been able to stay healthy enough to grow more into the position. Has either team committed to the 5th year?

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, BuffAlone said:

In fact, I don't ever recall hearing that phrase before Whaley. If he was smart, he'd have patented it and could be collecting royalties now?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000506629/article/whaley-bills-are-almost-in-a-quarterback-purgatory%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Daround-the-league;team%3Dbuf;conf%3Dafc;dvsn%3Dace;plyr%3Dmatthew_cassel;plyr%3Dtyrod_taylor;plyr%3Derik_manuel&p.ct=Around%2bthe%2bNFL&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23fff&p.bgc1m=%230964bf&p.bgc2m=%23053a74&sr=amp

[BuffAlone]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000506629/article/whaley-bills-are-almost-in-a-quarterback-purgatory%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Daround-the-league;team%3Dbuf;conf%3Dafc;dvsn%3Dace;plyr%3Dmatthew_cassel;plyr%3Dtyrod_taylor;plyr%3Derik_manuel&p.ct=Around%2bthe%2bNFL&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23fff&p.bgc1m=%230964bf&p.bgc2m=%23053a74&sr=amp

Bad link? Reads error when I clicked it

[tbarg12]

I wouldn't sign either of them to a huge deal, Mariotta can't stay healthy enough to see some on-field progress, and Winston might have more upside after TB signed Arians. But Arians can only do so much, I don't think Winston will stay out of trouble off the field long enough to reap the benefits of Arians tutelage. 

[Wo-Bah]

9 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Great link again Yolo. I absolutely would not want to sign either of these guys to a monster deal. Are they better than what we've trotted out for much of the year outside of Allen? Sure. But that's not the question. Just good enough to avoid a straight up QB housecleaning, but most certainly not good enough to take you to the promised land on their shoulders, which is the ultimate goal (or should be) of any FO. Would you also add someone like Matthew Stafford to this mix? 

 

To the bold: no, personally, I would not.  I actually think he's a better than average QB, with little talent around him.  Huge arm, can read defenses, always has command of the huddle, and a leader.

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Who??

a jrober

[Philo]

3 minutes ago, Wo-Bah said:

 

To the bold: no, personally, I would not.  I actually think he's a better than average QB, with little talent around him.  Huge arm, can read defenses, always has command of the huddle, and a leader.

 

Yup, I agree with this. Also remember that he has had essentially zero run game to support him for the majority of his time in Detroit. 

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, BuffAlone said:

Bad link? Reads error when I clicked it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/08/buffalo_bills_doug_whaley_quarterback_purgatory.amp

try that one 

[DCOrange]

I think there's at least a chance that Jameis gets a huge contract in Tampa. I don't really foresee that at this point with Mariota, mainly because he can't stay healthy, but he also hasn't been very productive even when he is healthy.

 

I don't envy the position either of those teams are in though. In my opinion, the worst QB situation to be in is having to pay a guy you know is an average-ish starter $20+ million per year. In that situation, I'd rather kick them to the curb and take my chances with a cheap vet and the draft. I imagine that if Jameis has another solid season, he'll get paid though; he already owns basically every passing record in Tampa's history and he's only a year older than Baker Mayfield.

[buffalo2218]

I personally think if the Titans took Philly up on their offer, Mariota would have been in a much better place right now. Tennessee was the worst place for Mariota, and both him and the Titans would have benefitted more if the Titans pulled the trigger on that trade

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

That term will always remind me of Doug Whaley 

 

 

Yep.........possibly the dumbest thing he ever said as a Bill.

 

And of course the apologist crowd here ate it up.

 

While the % of QB's drafted that become franchise types is low............the list of QB's that the Bills took a pass on since draft day 2000 was long enough and full of guys who took their teams to SB's to call "purgatory" as bullish*t.

 

Meanwhile the only #1 overall picks to win SB's in the 2000's are/were the Manning bros...........and before that the most recently drafted #1 overall QB to win a SB had been Aikman drafted in 1989(though 1983 #1 Elway won 2 SB's in the late 1990's).    

Edited January 10, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[gonzo1105]

Winston actually would be a good NFL QB if he could cut out the extra curricular and the turnovers. Those are his big downfall. He gets sacked a ton and TB has no defense whatsoever. 

 

Would I give either big money? No but I think maybe a change of scenery would be good for him.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

They're never going to be elite but they're Top 15 guys probably. It's just you're going to have to give them Top 5 money. Why do we overpay QB's in this league?

[NewEra]

They have themselves Andy Daltonitis.  Being better than any immediate replacements but not good enough to take you where you want to go, while costing a pretty penny.  If you have Andy Daltonitis, the Doctor would recommend building the best defense in football or removing the limb 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

59 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Imo, Winston still has more upside, but he’s probably headed for jail by the time he’s 30.

Oh, stop being ‘crabby’...?

Edited January 10, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013
Had to add ?. I couldn’t think it without snickering.

[Bill Murray]

if i remember correctly, Gruden loved Mariota coming out of school when he was doing his Gruden QB segments for ESPN or whoever.  Maybe the Raiders go from one brutal QB deal to another...

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

No such thing as QB Purgatory.  Tanking or trading up are both options.

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Oh, stop being ‘crabby’...?

I can never let a Winston thread go by without this 

 

[PetermansRedemption]

If I was Tampa I probably do not worry much about giving Jamies a big contract. He plays good enough to warrant making top 10 starter money. With the right coach and his supporting cast, he will live up to that contract. Mariota I feel is the new definition of average. I would not want to give that man a big contract at all. The Titan’s problem, though, is there any alternative? You drafted the guy high, can you really give up on him and try to hit in the draft. With his injury history and production I move on. Will the Titan’s? I doubt it. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I can never let a Winston thread go by without this 

 

You get to ‘eat a W’ for that...?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, Bills2ref said:

If I was Tampa I probably do not worry much about giving Jamies a big contract. He plays good enough to warrant making top 10 starter money. With the right coach and his supporting cast, he will live up to that contract. Mariota I feel is the new definition of average. I would not want to give that man a big contract at all. The Titan’s problem, though, is there any alternative? You drafted the guy high, can you really give up on him and try to hit in the draft. With his injury history and production I move on. Will the Titan’s? I doubt it. 

 

Jameis just seems like... i dunno-  he makes a fair amount of good throws.  But man does he occasionally have some stinkers.  And just generally a few times a game you go... what are you doing?! walking into sacks, throwing into coverage, sailing throws over the middle, poor ball control

[hemma]

I know I wouldn’t trade Allen for either one of them.

[Jay_Fixit]

I wouldn’t give up on either right now.

 

With Arians, I bet Winston has a monster season.

[C.Biscuit97]

This is also why you don’t retain a bad coach for the sake of continuity.

20 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Jameis just seems like... i dunno-  he makes a fair amount of good throws.  But man does he occasionally have some stinkers.  And just generally a few times a game you go... what are you doing?! walking into sacks, throwing into coverage, sailing throws over the middle, poor ball control

Jameis has all the arm talent in the world and has great weapons.  His decision making on and off the field is so dumb though.

 

and I was never sold on Mariota.  Kinda of gimmicky and gets hurt all the time.  But he looked pretty good his 2nd year. 

[DC Tom]

Winston's off-field issues naturally raise questions about him.

 

Mariota?  He's going to have his fifth OC in five years?  They're in coaching purgatory, not QB purgatory. 

[Haslett_Stomp]

33 minutes ago, Bill Murray said:

if i remember correctly, Gruden loved Mariota coming out of school when he was doing his Gruden QB segments for ESPN or whoever.  Maybe the Raiders go from one brutal QB deal to another...

 

Gruden loved EJ too.

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Let me pull out the world's smallest violin...

 

1 hour ago, BuffAlone said:

In fact, I don't ever recall hearing that phrase before Whaley. If he was smart, he'd have patented it and could be collecting royalties now?

 

My mother used to say this to us when my sisters and I were kids back in the '70s and early '80s.

[SWATeam]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

Winston's off-field issues naturally raise questions about him.

 

Mariota?  He's going to have his fifth OC in five years?  They're in coaching purgatory, not QB purgatory. 

Meh.  Good QB's generally afford some coaching stability. 

[Mark80]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Would you sign either to a giant QB deal?

 

No F'n way.  There are two ways to win in this league as I see it. 

 

1.  Have one of the best QBs around and pay them what they deserve.  Brady, Rogers, Brees, that level of guy.

2.  Hit on a young QB in their rookie deal that is "good enough" and spend on talent around them while they are still cheap.  If he really shines you sign him to money referred to in point #1 and ride him for 10 more years.

2b.  Get a good, cheap back-up/journeyman type that could also potentially thrive surrounded by the right talent, or just have a magical season like the Vikings last year (or Foles).

 

There is no "overpay for mediocre at best QBs at the expense of the rest of the roster's talent and then go win a Super Bowl."

Edited January 10, 2019 by Mark80

[Scott7975]

Don't know what it was like on this board because I was on that other board back then.  On that other board many people were so sure that these two were the next big stars.  Just about every QB is when the Bills don't draft them.  That's why when draft time came I laugh almost every time someone bangs the table saying the Bills will be sorry.  Some of them were right maybe once now (Mahomes) and wrong 100 more times.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Scott7975