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YoloinOhio

Four years after drafting Winston and Mariota 1 and 2, the Bucs and Titans are in “QB Purgatory”

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59 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Imo, Winston still has more upside, but he’s probably headed for jail by the time he’s 30.

Oh, stop being ‘crabby’...😁

Edited by Ridgewaycynic2013
Had to add 😁. I couldn’t think it without snickering.
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if i remember correctly, Gruden loved Mariota coming out of school when he was doing his Gruden QB segments for ESPN or whoever.  Maybe the Raiders go from one brutal QB deal to another...

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No such thing as QB Purgatory.  Tanking or trading up are both options.

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2 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Oh, stop being ‘crabby’...😁

I can never let a Winston thread go by without this 

 

giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c3787d566314d6549

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If I was Tampa I probably do not worry much about giving Jamies a big contract. He plays good enough to warrant making top 10 starter money. With the right coach and his supporting cast, he will live up to that contract. Mariota I feel is the new definition of average. I would not want to give that man a big contract at all. The Titan’s problem, though, is there any alternative? You drafted the guy high, can you really give up on him and try to hit in the draft. With his injury history and production I move on. Will the Titan’s? I doubt it. 

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1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I can never let a Winston thread go by without this 

 

giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c3787d566314d6549

You get to ‘eat a W’ for that...😁

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5 minutes ago, Bills2ref said:

If I was Tampa I probably do not worry much about giving Jamies a big contract. He plays good enough to warrant making top 10 starter money. With the right coach and his supporting cast, he will live up to that contract. Mariota I feel is the new definition of average. I would not want to give that man a big contract at all. The Titan’s problem, though, is there any alternative? You drafted the guy high, can you really give up on him and try to hit in the draft. With his injury history and production I move on. Will the Titan’s? I doubt it. 

 

Jameis just seems like... i dunno-  he makes a fair amount of good throws.  But man does he occasionally have some stinkers.  And just generally a few times a game you go... what are you doing?! walking into sacks, throwing into coverage, sailing throws over the middle, poor ball control

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I wouldn’t give up on either right now.

 

With Arians, I bet Winston has a monster season.

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This is also why you don’t retain a bad coach for the sake of continuity.

20 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Jameis just seems like... i dunno-  he makes a fair amount of good throws.  But man does he occasionally have some stinkers.  And just generally a few times a game you go... what are you doing?! walking into sacks, throwing into coverage, sailing throws over the middle, poor ball control

Jameis has all the arm talent in the world and has great weapons.  His decision making on and off the field is so dumb though.

 

and I was never sold on Mariota.  Kinda of gimmicky and gets hurt all the time.  But he looked pretty good his 2nd year. 

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Winston's off-field issues naturally raise questions about him.

 

Mariota?  He's going to have his fifth OC in five years?  They're in coaching purgatory, not QB purgatory. 

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33 minutes ago, Bill Murray said:

if i remember correctly, Gruden loved Mariota coming out of school when he was doing his Gruden QB segments for ESPN or whoever.  Maybe the Raiders go from one brutal QB deal to another...

 

Gruden loved EJ too.

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Let me pull out the world's smallest violin...

 

1 hour ago, BuffAlone said:

In fact, I don't ever recall hearing that phrase before Whaley. If he was smart, he'd have patented it and could be collecting royalties now😂

 

My mother used to say this to us when my sisters and I were kids back in the '70s and early '80s.

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3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

Winston's off-field issues naturally raise questions about him.

 

Mariota?  He's going to have his fifth OC in five years?  They're in coaching purgatory, not QB purgatory. 

Meh.  Good QB's generally afford some coaching stability. 

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2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:
Would you sign either to a giant QB deal?

 

No F'n way.  There are two ways to win in this league as I see it. 

 

1.  Have one of the best QBs around and pay them what they deserve.  Brady, Rogers, Brees, that level of guy.

2.  Hit on a young QB in their rookie deal that is "good enough" and spend on talent around them while they are still cheap.  If he really shines you sign him to money referred to in point #1 and ride him for 10 more years.

2b.  Get a good, cheap back-up/journeyman type that could also potentially thrive surrounded by the right talent, or just have a magical season like the Vikings last year (or Foles).

 

There is no "overpay for mediocre at best QBs at the expense of the rest of the roster's talent and then go win a Super Bowl."

Edited by Mark80
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Don't know what it was like on this board because I was on that other board back then.  On that other board many people were so sure that these two were the next big stars.  Just about every QB is when the Bills don't draft them.  That's why when draft time came I laugh almost every time someone bangs the table saying the Bills will be sorry.  Some of them were right maybe once now (Mahomes) and wrong 100 more times.

Edited by Scott7975
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The unfortunate fact is that a lot of these kids don't make it as QB's in the NFL.

 

It is amazing to be that the jury is still out on Winston and Mariota .

 

Which makes it all that more amazing with the season that Mahomes is having.

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1 hour ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

My mother used to say this to us when my sisters and I were kids back in the '70s and early '80s.

 

Totally. My dad used to say it all the time to us. I also saw the term referenced once on a Sponge Bob Square Pants episode that my kids were watching. I thought it was quite a clever reference, considering the nature of such a show.

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At any given time, perhaps half the teams in the league at most have QBs that they are completely comfortable with leading their team.   There is only a handful of truly elite QBs.  Among the obvious  have nots (and Buffalo has been a have not for nearly to decades) the most important goal is to find a good QB.  At least they know what they need to do.  Teams in QB purgatory have the dilemma of what to have as a goal.  Is it to give the QB they have the best chance he can have to succeed?  That's the easiest thing to do, but it leaves fans with the lingering doubt that the team will ever be truly successful.  If they opt to focus on finding a franchise QB, there is likewise no guarantee of success, because, after all, there aren't enough of those guys to go around.  That's why most Bills fans are desperately hoping Josh Allen turns out to be really good.

Edited by TigerJ
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3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yep.........possibly the dumbest thing he ever said as a Bill.

 

And of course the apologist crowd here ate it up.

 

While the % of QB's drafted that become franchise types is low............the list of QB's that the Bills took a pass on since draft day 2000 was long enough and full of guys who took their teams to SB's to call "purgatory" as bullish*t.

 

Meanwhile the only #1 overall picks to win SB's in the 2000's are/were the Manning bros...........and before that the most recently drafted #1 overall QB to win a SB had been Aikman drafted in 1989(though 1983 #1 Elway won 2 SB's in the late 1990's).    

And Im sure that Violin is playing for him now as he is VP of the XFL.  How much money do you suppose he has made for such a stupid man that says stupid things.

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4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

And one of the folks on here who makes grand proclamations about how smart he is at assessing QB play, constantly criticizes Allen,  etc. etc., when that draft was coming up claimed he'd trade an entire draft for Winston.

People who lived in EJ's house shouldn't throw stones.

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4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I think there's at least a chance that Jameis gets a huge contract in Tampa. I don't really foresee that at this point with Mariota, mainly because he can't stay healthy, but he also hasn't been very productive even when he is healthy.

 

I don't envy the position either of those teams are in though. In my opinion, the worst QB situation to be in is having to pay a guy you know is an average-ish starter $20+ million per year. In that situation, I'd rather kick them to the curb and take my chances with a cheap vet and the draft. I imagine that if Jameis has another solid season, he'll get paid though; he already owns basically every passing record in Tampa's history and he's only a year older than Baker Mayfield.

It really amazes me how quickly the NFL figures out how to minimize rookie QBs who enjoyed wild success in college. These guy lit up the League early on, but have been exposed for what they aren’t good at and rendered beatable by it. I’m encouraged early on with how the Bills and Allen have handled this and how he can make the defense pay by altering their scheme to contain him. IF, IF! we can develop a strong run game -specifically with a power Back, defenses will be powerless to stop us.

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23 minutes ago, Swill Merchant said:

People who lived in EJ's house shouldn't throw stones.

I thought EJ might be the guy after than Carolina game his rookie year., but he got worse instead of better.   Never did I say he was worth an entire draft.

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5 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

In fact, I don't ever recall hearing that phrase before Whaley. If he was smart, he'd have patented it and could be collecting royalties now😂

 

He is smart enough not to pay money to a huckster trying to patent a phrase.  Have you been fooled?

 

That phrase was created by the press and I'd like to see the fight over who could copywrong it.

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Winston was never going to be good in the NFL.

 

Mariota, however, has been a disappointment.  I thought he would do better than he has.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mark80 said:

 

No F'n way.  There are two ways to win in this league as I see it. 

 

1.  Have one of the best QBs around and pay them what they deserve.  Brady, Rogers, Brees, that level of guy.

2.  Hit on a young QB in their rookie deal that is "good enough" and spend on talent around them while they are still cheap.  If he really shines you sign him to money referred to in point #1 and ride him for 10 more years.

2b.  Get a good, cheap back-up/journeyman type that could also potentially thrive surrounded by the right talent, or just have a magical season like the Vikings last year (or Foles).

 

There is no "overpay for mediocre at best QBs at the expense of the rest of the roster's talent and then go win a Super Bowl."

 

You forgot #3 trade a starting DE for another team's backup (say John Skeleton) who has not seen the field.

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