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Offensive Line: Who Stays Who Goes


Dkollidas

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Position-wise where do they find new starters?

 

based off the end of this year those players would be

 

LT- Dawkins

LG- Miller

C-Bodine

RG- Teller

RT- Mills

 

Dont know why, but I think they’ll try to get Mills to re-sign. Looking around the league, he is an average RT, although he’s much better in the run than he is against the pass. 

 

But overall all I expect the emphasis to be much more on the inside of the offensive line. I see Miller and Bodine for sure being replaced, and the possibility of competition for Teller is strong as well.

 

im not saying they won’t try to improve the RT situation as well, I just think it will be someone who competes with Mills and doesn’t outright replace him. 

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Agreed. I think they go hard after a guy like Paradis at center, or even Morse from KC if he becomes available. 

 

Guard will see guys like Saffold or Foster. Veterans who can provide stability I would think. 

 

I think Teller gets some solid competition but gets a chance to win one of the guard spots.

 

I have a feeling Mills gets a bigger pay-day somewhere else. He’s been decently rated analytically over the last couple of seasons, but I don’t think he moves the needle st all in pass protection. He’s a run blocker all day. Very limited and I think the GM & Coach both prefer Versatility and Flexibility among a position like that. 

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Dawkins stays (maybe stays at LT or maybe moves inside to LG)

Bodine stays (as depth)

Teller stays (gets to compete for a starting guard job)

 

Ducasse is cut (saves $2m, $83k in dead money and his buddy Castillo has gone)

 

Miller, Groy and Mills are FAs. The only one I expect the Bills to make any kind of run at is Jordan Mills. I know, I know, I know...... he is a bottom end starting RT. Of the 32 starters this year I'd rank him in the bottom 4 or 5 but that is still better than a lot of the guys who are not starters around the league. There is no depth anywhere when it comes to OL. Unless the price gets high I would expect they try to bring Mills back at a similar price to now on a 2 year deal with an easy out after 1 year and then you try and draft his replacement in the middle of the draft.

 

I also think Ike Boettger showed enough in limited snaps at the end of the year to suggest he will get to compete for a job again in 2019 too.

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I hope they don't assume any unproven talent, Teller/Boettger, can be the day 1 starter and therefore don't pursue starters for those positions. The only day 1 starter for next season that I see, is Dawkins. Scary, I know.

 

They need to find competition/starters at LG, C, RG and RT.  The Bills in the past have just assumed that unproven talent will just improve that next season and haven't brought in anyone of value. A good example of that is Groy. While he looked down the stretch for Wood, he was largely unproven. They just assumed he would start day 1 and only went after Bodine in FA as a backup. That backfired. And too an extent I'd say Dawkins is another example of that. Dawkins played well filling in for Glenn but the line would have been much, much better as a Glenn, Dawkins, Groy/Bodine, Teller/Miller, Mills.

Edited by Wayne Cubed
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Bodine as depth will cost $2,289,063 next year. He adds little to the team. If you can add a depth player who is barely acceptable like Bodine is for depth at less than 2 million, I say do so. Otherwise keep him at depth

 

Miller never got better. I had hopes for him. Buffalo has wasted enough on him already. Let him walk.

 

Ducasse is not an answer at 2 million. Get another depth vet at near vet minimum unless he is willing to play for vet minimum, which is all he is worth.

 

Groy is another disappointment who is not worth more than vet minimum.

 

Teller should be given a chance to compete for a position, or at least be backup, and hopefully improve more next year.

 

Ike Boettger showed enough to keep around as a backup, and if he shows enough progress, a chance to compete sometime next year.

 

Mills is a borderline starter and is often a liability. More a backup and I would keep him around at backup dollars. If someone else offers him more, so be it.

 

Dawkins is passable, but may be better suited at another position than LT. If we can upgrade LT, then do so.

 

Hoping we get someone like Paradis in FA. Hoping we spend FA dollars on improving the OL, and also use multiple draft picks to improve the line.

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IMO center and both guards need to be improved. Right tackle would be nice too but that’s a lot in one offseason. Also that is Allen’s strong side and it’s easier for him to adjust in the pocket to. We badly need a top center and leader to that line!!! At least one road grader of a guard so our run game has at least one strong side to run behind. Probably left guard first. Not sure if Teller will develop here or not. I’m not concerned with Dawkins as some are . I feel he can do the job at LT!  

LG and center ASAP!

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Bodine is not a depth player because he is not a backup OG.   If he cannot make the team as a starter then he goes.  Bring in a vet C to anchor the line if possible.

 

Dawkins stays, looks like a RT if we draft a legit LT

 

Miller seems to have missed his chance. Bring in another vet and draft a OG/C

 

Mills could stay as a swing tackle, but I doubt he will, someone will pay him.

 

Groy missed his big shot and was terrible, gone.

 

Teller stays but we need to bring in someone to challenge him. 

 

Boetger can stay and challenge

 

Draft:  One OL in first three rounds and maybe 2 more with remaining 7 picks. 

Free agents:   Sign a Center and a Guard that can step in on day one and upgrade. 

Sign a few more developmental players - we seem to be good at finding diamonds in the rough. 

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It's hard to say because of Castillo. 

 

If Castillo was really that bad then it's hard to really evaluate how good/bad the players are. 

 

I almost think you have to wait until a new oline coach is here to re-evaluate everyone. So that means McDermott needs to fill that position asap. 

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Nothing to worry about here.

 

Only everything with our offense depends on fixing this woeful line, which I will reiterate from previous posts that even though they were considered bad I still found them to be overrated.

 

...and again, Allen didn't have happy feet in Miami and leave the pocket early, he astutely left the pocket just as it was collapsing and gave the Bills at least an opportunity to win the game, even if you think it was a poorly thrown ball.

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Dawkins is a starter as one of the OT positions.  Many are assuming he’ll be moved to RT.  I don’t think it’s a sure thing.  A lot will depend on what players are available in FA.

 

Teller is probably on yhe team team next year.  I am sure they are optimistic he’ll compete for a starting job.

 

Ike Botteger will likely be on the team too, possibly to compete with Teller.

 

I also see Russell Bodine stocking around.  He has 1 more deal on his contract and the Bills have the cap space.  I don’t see them cutting a veteran to save $1 million dollar.  If anything he’ll playa Groy type of roll on the team.  

 

Gone

 

Vlad Ducasse is gone.  Anytime a former starter that is names a healthy scratch, there’s a good chance he doesn’t have long on the team. 

 

I think they do like Mills, but lineplay in the NFL overall is not good.  Teams would pay Mills to be a starter.  I don’t see the Bills paying him a competing salary to be a backup because I think they want to upgrade at tackle.

 

Jon Miller

He’s done.  Didn’t quite have them bounce back Year he needed.

 

Ryan Groy:

I don’t think the Bills have ever really loved Groy.  He’s stuck around based on his reputation from the 2016 teams and his cheap contract.  He’s gone though. 

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39 minutes ago, pop gun said:

It's hard to say because of Castillo. 

 

If Castillo was really that bad then it's hard to really evaluate how good/bad the players are. 

 

I almost think you have to wait until a new oline coach is here to re-evaluate everyone. So that means McDermott needs to fill that position asap. 

I agree. As I look back, Miller was one of the best O lineman as a rookie.  Maybe he was not a fit for the revised blocking scheme.  Would that change with another scheme???

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15 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Draft your LT in the first round, move Dawkins to RT.   Teller will become a very good guard.  That means we need a center and a guard.  I don't know who's available, but let's not go Marv-crazy and do what he did back then,  when he dropped nearly 100 million on 2 mediocre guards.

 

That contract made Langston Walker and Derrick Dockery financially set for life!  Unfortunately the Bills OL was not set....even for a one season!

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As  this is real life, who stays and who goes depends on the new guys that come in through FA and the draft. ALL teams want better OLinemen so it's not like they are on a shelf just ready to be picked up. Beane's offseason moves will have way more impact than the next OL coach hiring. I still say "just" two good additions to the line will make the rest of the guys better and make quite an impact. Losing Richie was huge (ask Shady...), and losing Woods also hurt though not as bad. Of course 3-4-5 better players would be best but again, real life. 

 

At least McD is saying straight up this the #1 area to address during this offseason.

 

 

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Keep Dawkins and Teller. Keep Sirles and McDermott for the time being for depth and competition.

The rest can all battle to the death in a steel cage with Bobby Heenan barred from ringside for the "worst lineman ever" world championship.

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2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Center, guard and right tackle in free agency.  Unless they plan on moving Dawkins then that would shake up what positions need filled then.  Bodine might be kept for depth.  

 

Mills

Miller

Groy 

 

see ya

 

 

What happened to Vlad?

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I was hoping that they would have a shot at picking up the guy from Bama in the draft but seeing the teams that are a head of the Bills in the draft & winning the last game putting us in the 9th pick in the draft i think Williams will be long gone before the Bills pick comes around .

 

I do believe Bean will have a good choice for where we pick at & i wouldn't put it past him to concocted a way to go up & get Williams if he is still there at a higher pick seeing as there is always some one looking to move in the draft .

 

Even if he goes with eh BPA it will be good for the teams future ...

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Center and Guard is what im looking at! Elevate that play and our tackles suddenly become better. We dont have a guard on the roster that can pull. We also dont have guards or centers on the roster with good technique i.e Teller- Strong but thats it! 

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4 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Center, guard and right tackle in free agency.  Unless they plan on moving Dawkins then that would shake up what positions need filled then.  Bodine might be kept for depth.  

 

Mills

Miller

Groy 

 

see ya

Add Ducasse to the cut list and that's about right. They will probably keep Mills and  Bodine as depth. Keep developing Teller and sign Paradis. And Jonah is still in play at LT, slide Dawkins to RT. No clue who's going to play RG?

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O-line does seem to me to be one of the positions that players often get better beyond their first few years. I think Mills is an example of this. So was Ritchie Incognito, for that matter. I don't think we should lose Miller, for that reason. I think Teller could end up being great. Really, I think this should be a discussion of who our starters are, not necessarily who we simply cut. We need more than five quality O-linemen.

 

That being said, Ducasse is a nine year vet that isn't going to get any better, and IMO is a weak link. Cut him. I wouldn't miss him. Didn't love Bodine, either. Cut him. I know a lot of people were highly critical of Groy when he came in for Bodine in the first Miami game, but he also got better by the end of the season IMO. And, his versatility is what has kept him on the team. I think he should remain, but certainly not as a starter.

 

Dion Dawkins has been an above average LT, but he he did have his issues this season. But, he was listed at guard in the draft. Is it out of the question to move him inside? Could Dawkins/Teller develop into a good guard combo?

 

In my opinion, the best O-lines are the ones that play well as a unit, and I hope this is why Castillo is gone. O-line coach is such an important role. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the offseason.

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7 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Position-wise where do they find new starters?

 

based off the end of this year those players would be

 

LT- Dawkins

LG- Miller

C-Bodine

RG- Teller

RT- Mills

 

Dont know why, but I think they’ll try to get Mills to re-sign. Looking around the league, he is an average RT, although he’s much better in the run than he is against the pass. 

 

But overall all I expect the emphasis to be much more on the inside of the offensive line. I see Miller and Bodine for sure being replaced, and the possibility of competition for Teller is strong as well.

 

im not saying they won’t try to improve the RT situation as well, I just think it will be someone who competes with Mills and doesn’t outright replace him. 

Let's be honest, the OL needs a major facelift at least at three positions. And while I enjoy the speculation, in reality, FA will ultimately shape our line and who stays and goes. While the reality is that we need OL in the draft, Beane likely won't draft OL by need unless it coincides with BPA as well, in the first. Where he looks to fill need is in FA, and it's more likely we're only able to fill one OL position with a top/average name, less likely two, and nearly improbable we land three. 

 

If we are looking to address the biggest needs along the OL specifically, it starts in the middle with Center. The majority of our OL resources should go to finding a stout replacement that can anchor the line, call assignments, and not get bull rushed on every pass rush...Paradis or Morse do seem to be the best options there, but depending on how much we pay to get a guy like that will affect our next priority, Guard. I like the thought of swinging Dawkins in at Guard and maybe Teller at the other - very mobile and physical guys that do better on interior schemes (based upon college careers), and maybe look to address Tackle instead. But whether or not FA goes that way will depend on whether we keep guys like Miller, Groy, Bodine, and Mills. 

 

But on a pure numbers standpoint, it's likely Mills ends up staying, and maybe Bodine or Groy for depth. If Miller somehow ends up staying or getting extended for cheap, I'm really hoping his regression was due to Castillo and can now get back on track to his rookie form.

 

Novel aside, I see our line going two ways next year, depending on who we pick up in FA, and if we end up drafting a guy as well:

 

Center and Guard addressed in FA:

LT - Dawkins/Draft Pick

LG - Teller

C - Paradis/Morse/FA

RG - Saffold/FA/(Potential for Dawkins depending on draft pick)

RT - Mills/Draft Pick

 

Center and Tackle addressed in FA:

LT - FA/Draft Pick

LG - Dawkins

C - Paradis/Morse/FA

RG - Teller

RT - Mills/Draft Pick

 

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I believe it’s important to remember that this position group works in tandem and a couple of changes, as mentioned above, can help all improve. 

 

I am hoping, however, that we grab Jonah Williams from Alabama if he’s still there at 9. He will be a bookend for many years. 

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Good topic OP!

 

Let me share my thoughts.  

 

A couple clarifying statements first:

  1. LT is a high cost position and few alternatives (ie, not worth it) hitting the market.
  2. C is a critical position in Bills Offensive scheme given how complicated it is.  Getting a Veteran who can both call schemes well (Bodine can) and physically dominate (Bodine can't)  might be a priority at OBD.  C is a less expensive position in FA.
  3. Difference in LG and RG in Bills' scheme.  LG (remember Richie)  pulls more in Bills Offense.  Teller is barely athletic enough to hold up there and might be better served moving to RG as a result.
  4. Dion Dawkins might be targeted to move to new position. (RT or LG).  I feel he would dominate at LG given movement skills.

So In my opinion, FA and the Draft may play out as follows:

  1. Bills select an OT at top of draft and they play LT. (Jonah Williams targeted given familiarity with Daboll)
  2. Dawkins is moved to LG and Teller to RG.  Both offer more at respective positions than prior starters.
  3. FA used to find C and RT.  (Paradis, Morse at C.  Williams or James at RT).
  4. Mills, Miller, Groy and Ducasse are allowed to leave.
  5. Bodine, Boettger and McDermott kept as backups.
  • Bills line would be as follows with 3 veteran starters, a 2nd year RG and rookie LT :
    • LT Jonah Williams / Greg Little
    • LG Dion Dawkins
    • C FA signee Paradis or Morse (Culley has insight on Morse given time in KC)
    • RG Teller
    • RT FA signee Daryl Williams (Carolina connection) Ju'waun James (MIA) or Cameron Fleming (DAL but was at NE with Daboll) .  All 3 are only 26 years old.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Good topic OP!

 

Let me share my thoughts.  

 

A couple clarifying statements first:

  1. LT is a high cost position and few alternatives (ie, not worth it) hitting the market.
  2. C is a critical position in Bills Offensive scheme given how complicated it is.  Getting a Veteran who can both call schemes well (Bodine can) and physically dominate (Bodine can't)  might be a priority at OBD.  C is a less expensive position in FA.
  3. Difference in LG and RG in Bills' scheme.  LG (remember Richie)  pulls more in Bills Offense.  Teller is barely athletic enough to hold up there and might be better served moving to RG as a result.
  4. Dion Dawkins might be targeted to move to new position. (RT or LG).  I feel he would dominate at LG given movement skills.

So In my opinion, FA and the Draft may play out as follows:

  1. Bills select an OT at top of draft and they play LT. (Jonah Williams targeted given familiarity with Daboll)
  2. Dawkins is moved to LG and Teller to RG.  Both offer more at respective positions than prior starters.
  3. FA used to find C and RT.  (Paradis, Morse at C.  Williams or James at RT).
  4. Mills, Miller, Groy and Ducasse are allowed to leave.
  5. Bodine, Boettger and McDermott kept as backups.
  • Bills line would be as follows with 3 veteran starters, a 2nd year RG and rookie LT :
    • LT Jonah Williams / Greg Little
    • LG Dion Dawkins
    • C FA signee Paradis or Morse (Culley has insight on Morse given time in KC)
    • RG Teller
    • RT FA signee Daryl Williams (Carolina connection) Ju'waun James (MIA) or Cameron Fleming (DAL but was at NE with Daboll) .  All 3 are only 26 years old.

 

 

 

Honestly looks a lot better than what we got.  I'd probably be willing to hedge a bet that they may also draft a depth player in rounds 3-5.  The guys at number 5 should have to work their asses off to keep a job.

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1 minute ago, Mountain Man said:

There is no way Williams makes it to 9

Lots of simulations have him dropping and he will if there is a run on QBs and Edge rushers - which there usually is.    .  2-3 of each would cause an OT to drop.  AZ, OAK, SF, Jets  and Lions need pass rushers.  OAK, JAGS, TB, Giants need a QB.

 

Williams won't go at  #1 to AZ as not a value pick at 1.  

 

It may be very likely he drops unless someone trades up to snag him ahead of us.

16 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

The only linemen I'm sure are staying are Dawkins and Teller.

And my scenario has them as only remaining starters.  We do have to field 53 and will need backups.  Of the current 9 roster players at OL, I suggest we keep 5 - and 3 are as backups.

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3 hours ago, ctk232 said:

Let's be honest, the OL needs a major facelift at least at three positions. And while I enjoy the speculation, in reality, FA will ultimately shape our line and who stays and goes. While the reality is that we need OL in the draft, Beane likely won't draft OL by need unless it coincides with BPA as well, in the first. Where he looks to fill need is in FA, and it's more likely we're only able to fill one OL position with a top/average name, less likely two, and nearly improbable we land three. 

 

If we are looking to address the biggest needs along the OL specifically, it starts in the middle with Center. The majority of our OL resources should go to finding a stout replacement that can anchor the line, call assignments, and not get bull rushed on every pass rush...Paradis or Morse do seem to be the best options there, but depending on how much we pay to get a guy like that will affect our next priority, Guard. I like the thought of swinging Dawkins in at Guard and maybe Teller at the other - very mobile and physical guys that do better on interior schemes (based upon college careers), and maybe look to address Tackle instead. But whether or not FA goes that way will depend on whether we keep guys like Miller, Groy, Bodine, and Mills. 

 

But on a pure numbers standpoint, it's likely Mills ends up staying, and maybe Bodine or Groy for depth. If Miller somehow ends up staying or getting extended for cheap, I'm really hoping his regression was due to Castillo and can now get back on track to his rookie form.

 

Novel aside, I see our line going two ways next year, depending on who we pick up in FA, and if we end up drafting a guy as well:

 

Center and Guard addressed in FA:

LT - Dawkins/Draft Pick

LG - Teller

C - Paradis/Morse/FA

RG - Saffold/FA/(Potential for Dawkins depending on draft pick)

RT - Mills/Draft Pick

 

Center and Tackle addressed in FA:

LT - FA/Draft Pick

LG - Dawkins

C - Paradis/Morse/FA

RG - Teller

RT - Mills/Draft Pick

 

I’m hoping for the most part that you’re right. 

 

I could see them going after a bigger name tackle though. With Darryl Williams being hurt most (or all?) OG this season, he might not get big offers from most teams, whereas Beane & McDermott know his history from being in Carolina.

 

I definitely think Morse or Paradis end up here. Paradis: Denver seems to be in that “middle ground”... too good to tear down, not good enough to be a contender. 

Morse: Kansas City has been paying some big time players and has more to pay in Dee Ford and others in the next couple with Mahomes & Tyreek Hill soon enough. 

 

Ramon Foster & Saffold are the top two guards I’ve seen out there. I wonder if Foster is fed up with the antics in Pittsburgh and maybe is looking for an organization with a better room to be in as Pittsburgh obviously has their fair share of issues.

 

Regarding the draft, I see Buffalo trading down. There’s high end Pass rusher talent all over the draft, I think Williams and Little could get taken before Buffalo Picks. I could see Haskins, Little, Williams and 5 Defensive players going in the top-8, leaving us with maybe the 6th best defensive player, or a chance to move down as quarterbacks always get taken too early, and Cincinnati, Miami & Washington are all teams that could need QB’s right behind the Broncos who could also need a QB ( and whom we pick directly in front of). 

 

Trading down and garnering extra picks, I could see us drafting 2 linemen in the first 3 rounds, and then if we have two other picks in the first three rounds, using those in skill position players. I would also see them grabbing guys that are versatile in where they can play on the line. All of the Wisconsin guys interest me a great deal. The team didn’t play as well as many expected but they have four guys that could go in the first three rounds and they’re almost all pretty versatile and have lined up at guard & tackle (Dieter has played every position I believe, and I think McDermott appreciates that type of versatility).

 

if we could get three free agent linemen (starting tackle, starting center, guard for competition to start) and supplement that with two young linemen that can line up at guard and tackle, I’d be thrilled.

 

LT- Dawkins & 3rd Round Pick

LG- 2nd Round Pick & UFA depth

C- UFA & Bodine

RG- Teller & UFA compete 

RT- UFA & McDermott 

 

 

Edited by Dkollidas
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14 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

I’m hoping for the most part that you’re right. 

 

I could see them going after a bigger name tackle though. With Darryl Williams being hurt most (or all?) OG this season, he might not get big offers from most teams, whereas Beane & McDermott know his history from being in Carolina.

 

I definitely think Morse or Paradis end up here. Paradis: Denver seems to be in that “middle ground”... too good to tear down, not good enough to be a contender. 

Morse: Kansas City has been paying some big time players and has more to pay in Dee Ford and others in the next couple with Mahomes & Tyreek Hill soon enough. 

 

Ramon Foster & Saffold are the top two guards I’ve seen out there. I wonder if Foster is fed up with the antics in Pittsburgh and maybe is looking for an organization with a better room to be in as Pittsburgh obviously has their fair share of issues.

 

 

I would hope Saffold falls into the same boat as Morse with upcoming contracts in LA, it's likely they look to either restructure an offer for him if they want to keep him, or cut ties with what's coming up in the next year or two. Either way, with a good amount of teams looking to strengthen their OL after this year, and some also for their newly found rookie QB (i.e. Zona, Jets, even Houston, Tennessee, and Carolina) we will likely end up paying more for any OL guys we bring in, than they will ultimately be worth. As FA goes.

Edited by ctk232
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I’d try to upgrade at RT, C, then G. Some may have to be retained out of necessity. Bodine seems a decent backup C / swing G. Mills is very average, but elite Tackles rarely hit free agency. Any good FA OL will take a massive overpayment to sign. That’s the reality of OL play in the NFL right now. 

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