Bills fire OL Coach Juan Castillo

[JPP]

13 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

Did they not think of his family and how he will feed them first?

LOL....just a hunch but i think these guys get paid abit above the minimum wage standards.....

[BigBuff423]

4 minutes ago, nucci said:

They also made poor decisions that caused the lack of cap space as well

 

I'm just wondering, when you say, "they", to whom are you referring?

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, nucci said:

They also made poor decisions that caused the lack of cap space as well

 

They were both very careful in their end of season pressers to refer explicitly to "the situation that they inherited". You have to remind yourself that situation was a team that over the preceding 3 seasons was exactly .500. I don't hate the way they have gone about this tear down - the test is in the rebuild - but they certainly like to spin the narrative that this was the only way they could possibly have gone and everything that has held them back to this point is on what went before.

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I'm just wondering, when you say, "they", to whom are you referring?

Whomever decide to take cap hits for McCarron and Coleman...among others...going to assume it was the GM...I know there were bad contracts before Beane arrived as well....

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They were both very careful in their end of season pressers to refer explicitly to "the situation that they inherited". You have to remind yourself that situation was a team that over the preceding 3 seasons was exactly .500. I don't hate the way they have gone about this tear down - the test is in the rebuild - but they certainly like to spin the narrative that this was the only way they could possibly have gone and everything that has held them back to this point is on what went before.

I agree... they had bad contracts when they arrived but also made a few bad decisions.

[BigBuff423]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

Whomever decide to take cap hits for McCarron and Coleman...among others...going to assume it was the GM...I know there were bad contracts before Beane arrived as well....

 Yeah, because McCarron and Coleman didn't count for much of the dead Cap. I realize it's a factor, but those came AFTER all the FA period was done and the Bills were rolling into the regular season. 

 

Whaley and his Cap Jail is what created the limited availability of options. Incognito and Wood retiring exacerbated that problem due to the accelerated Cap hits on their sudden retirements, when the plan was most likely to take the Cap hits in 2018 but they initially believed they'd have both to anchor that line. Now, if that happened this year - I'd agree there's no excuse for not finding suitable replacements because they'll have A TON of Cap space to work with and those hits would not have prohibited the Bills for paying for good value. 

 

So, we'll see how Beane handles this Off-season. But regardless of what comes for Opening Day, I'll reserve judgment until a quarter of the way through the season to think he did well, meh, or horrible. Because as we've seen, there are guys where most fans (including me), say, "Who?" when they get a guy and he turns out to be decent to very good. 

[dpberr]

He should have been fired a lot sooner IMO.  The offensive line looked lost in preseason and the first half of the season and that's on the coaching.

 

I know the OL did not have All-Pro talent this year but in many of those early games the OL performed poorly because they were often not where they should have been and that's a fundamental lack of understanding the where/why/how of the play.  

 

These unit coaches need to be great teachers and communicators. 

 

I hope Robiskie and Crossman are next.  Same problem.  

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

11 hours ago, peterpan said:

whomever is the Pats OL coach, bring him in and pay him triple to move here. 

Very true, whomever that guy is he taught the Pats O-Line how to hold without getting flagged. Out of all the different techniques a O-Lineman uses that one might be the most valuable.

[The Wiz]

9 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I’m glad you’re not my dad!  

 

They got it right, eventually. Sometimes you don’t get it right the first time around. I’m glad they corrected it. I refuse to make myself miserable about it. 

 

Who they hire next? Well, there’s the important question. Don’t keep making the same mistakes over and over. 

Time to play "6 degrees of McBeane" to find out which former coach is hired from a Carolina or Philly connection. 

[JM57]

6 minutes ago, dpberr said:

He should have been fired a lot sooner IMO.  The offensive line looked lost in preseason and the first half of the season and that's on the coaching.

 

I know the OL did not have All-Pro talent this year but in many of those early games the OL performed poorly because they were often not where they should have been and that's a fundamental lack of understanding the where/why/how of the play.  

 

These unit coaches need to be great teachers and communicators. 

 

I hope Robiskie and Crossman are next.  Same problem.  

 

 

He should have been fired last year. There seems to be, in this thread, a tone of "but they lost Wood, Glenn and Incognito and that wasn't his fault..."

 

Okay. Now remember he was not only OL coach but also the "run game coordinator." Now explain going from the best rushing offense in 2015 and 2016 to average in 2017 to putrid in 2018. Explain John Miller and Ryan Groy looking competent in the Kromer/Roman scheme and trainwrecks with Castillo. It wasn't just a one year slide, and shoehorning guys into your scheme despite and awful fit isn't the sign of a good coach. Sorry, but it is what it is. Considering he and McDermott go WAY back during their Eagles days, it's obvious McDermott felt the same way.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

What was the method of execution? Was he burned at the stake or crucified?

[hemma]

I think this is why Shady is getting another year.

 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Sadly there is no chance though. He was fired by the Pegulas not by Rex. 

He was definitely a scapegoat. 

[Wayne Cubed]

7 minutes ago, nucci said:

I agree... they had bad contracts when they arrived but also made a few bad decisions.

 

This gets thrown around a lot, which were the "bad" contracts?

 

Dareus? I mean if you think that's a bad contract, what about the one they gave to Star to essentially replace him? That wasn't about getting rid of the contract that was about getting in a "process" player. This wasn't a "bad" contract and certainly isn't any worse for what they replaced it with.

 

Glenn? If they waited another year, which who doesn't think they couldn't use Glenn on that line this year, they could have got out with $0 dead cap. This was about getting the ammunition to move up and grab players in the draft. This wasn't a "bad" contract.

 

Tyrod? The $7mm dead cap isn't massive to me for a place holder QB. I wouldn't exactly call that "bad" but maybe there's an argument.

 

Eric Wood? I mean they didn't really have a choice with that one.

 

Those contracts make up the vast majority of the dead cap money that the Bills were saddled with in 2018. And as you've said they've made some pretty poor decisions in the personnel department too.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

He was definitely a scapegoat. 

 

Agree. He is the best run game coordinator in the NFL. He never fails to generate rushing yards.

[Ittakestime]

35 minutes ago, dpberr said:

He should have been fired a lot sooner IMO.  The offensive line looked lost in preseason and the first half of the season and that's on the coaching.

 

I know the OL did not have All-Pro talent this year but in many of those early games the OL performed poorly because they were often not where they should have been and that's a fundamental lack of understanding the where/why/how of the play.  

 

These unit coaches need to be great teachers and communicators. 

 

I hope Robiskie and Crossman are next.  Same problem.  

 

 

 

Robiskie has been the best WR coach we have had in ages. Foster and Zay have turned into nice players. That's you want your positional coaches doing, developing young kids. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Yep. Sadly there is no chance though. He was fired by the Pegulas not by Rex. 

 

Say more....how do you know that (Roman I believe we're talking about?)

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Say more....how do you know that (Roman I believe we're talking about?)

 

I was pretty widely reported at the time. The Pegulas called a players only meeting without the coaching staff the day after the TNF beatdown by the Jets that left us 0-2. The conclusion of which was they told Rex that they thought Greg Roman should be fired. Rex had already had the warning about is job by that time and as a result he probably knew that if he refused he would be following Roman down the road.

[Trogdor]

35 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Time to play "6 degrees of McBeane" to find out which former coach is hired from a Carolina or Philly connection. 

 

Don't leave out college and high school connections. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I was pretty widely reported at the time. The Pegulas called a players only meeting without the coaching staff the day after the TNF beatdown by the Jets that left us 0-2. The conclusion of which was they told Rex that they thought Greg Roman should be fired. Rex had already had the warning about is job by that time and as a result he probably knew that if he refused he would be following Roman down the road.

 

I knew about the players' only meeting but I didn't remember any reporting about the outcome being "fire Roman".  Talk about the inmates running the asylum.

[CLTbills]

Praise Jesus. Step 1 towards this team getting to its full potential.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

27 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

What was the method of execution? Was he burned at the stake or crucified?

Thank you for jogging my memory of an old Three Stooges short.  “A hot steak is better than a cold chop”.

 

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

6 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

 

Don't leave out college and high school connections. 

Men’s group at the church?  ?

[Trogdor]

4 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Thank you for jogging my memory of an old Three Stooges short.  “A hot steak is better than a cold chop”.

 

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

Men’s group at the church?  ?

I think the next poll should be if his church habits are the first or second thing he mentions about the new coach. Someone posted about how religion seems to play too big a factor in his decisions and I'm starting to believe it more and more. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

This is the biggest addition to the team next year. Got to hire the right guy. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by TheTruthHurts

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

 

Robiskie has been the best WR coach we have had in ages. Foster and Zay have turned into nice players. That's you want your positional coaches doing, developing young kids. 

 

I agree with this, though I thought Sanjay Lal was pretty good. Robiskie knows what he is doing and has been excellent in career developing receivers. I don't know that a reciever coach can really help a guy catch better or be faster. There just isn't much talent in that room. 

 

[GunnerBill]

51 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I knew about the players' only meeting but I didn't remember any reporting about the outcome being "fire Roman".  Talk about the inmates running the asylum.

 

Well I think it was a bit reporters putting 2 and 2 together because Roman was fired the next day..... but put yourself in Roman's shoes.... you have to believe that meeting called by the Pegulas played a role in a guy who you were supposedly old friends with firing you 2 games into your second season after most people thought you had done a good job with the offense in your first year.

[CodeMonkey]

Blood sacrifice for the fans.  A coach can't make up for having zero talent due to GM mismanagement.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

1 hour ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

This gets thrown around a lot, which were the "bad" contracts?

 

Dareus? I mean if you think that's a bad contract, what about the one they gave to Star to essentially replace him? That wasn't about getting rid of the contract that was about getting in a "process" player. This wasn't a "bad" contract and certainly isn't any worse for what they replaced it with.

 

Glenn? If they waited another year, which who doesn't think they couldn't use Glenn on that line this year, they could have got out with $0 dead cap. This was about getting the ammunition to move up and grab players in the draft. This wasn't a "bad" contract.

 

Tyrod? The $7mm dead cap isn't massive to me for a place holder QB. I wouldn't exactly call that "bad" but maybe there's an argument.

 

Eric Wood? I mean they didn't really have a choice with that one.

 

Those contracts make up the vast majority of the dead cap money that the Bills were saddled with in 2018. And as you've said they've made some pretty poor decisions in the personnel department too.

Umm Darues contract is double that of Star’s. Double!!!!! Sure he’s not the pass rusher of Dareus but that is why he did not get the same contract as Marcel. He’s just as imposing vs the run and is a great teammate. Worth the the contract he got and glads he’s here. Look across the league, good run stuffing, space eating tackles get paid right around 10 million a year

[34-78-83]

3 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

Blood sacrifice for the fans.  A coach can't make up for having zero talent due to GM mismanagement.

This current regime clearly doesn't make any moves for the sake of fans ( thankfully ). What makes you think they would make such a move now? You need to cleanse your assumptions based on the past

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

Blood sacrifice for the fans.  A coach can't make up for having zero talent due to GM mismanagement.

 

Not really.  He's done NOTHING to demonstrate that he's qualified to coach offensive linemen.  IIRC he had input into the talent they assembled (specifically Ducasse) and nothing excuses the confusion and chaos that was evident on too many running plays.

[JohnC]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well I think it was a bit reporters putting 2 and 2 together because Roman was fired the next day..... but put yourself in Roman's shoes.... you have to believe that meeting called by the Pegulas played a role in a guy who you were supposedly old friends with firing you 2 games into your second season after most people thought you had done a good job with the offense in your first year.

Terry Pegula made the same mistake with the Sabres as he did with the Bills when he bought the franchises in the different sports. He thought that a lot of action and money even without much thought would get results. What he painfully learned is that acting for the sake of acting doesn't necessarily translate into success. 

 

With respect to the Bills in his quest for immediate relevancy for the irrelevant franchise he bought he made the stupendous mistake of hiring clown Rex because he believed that it would provide instant recognition. He got that recognition but it wasn't for success so much as it was for buffoonery. 

 

The newbie owner finally learned with both the hockey and football franchise that the road to success is in hiring the right people to run the operation. Pegula is a good owner because he will provide whatever resources that are needed. He is a better owner now because he doesn't interfere with the operation. Very often it takes time for the learning curve to take effect. 

 

 

[Wayne Cubed]

4 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Umm Darues contract is double that of Star’s. Double!!!!! Sure he’s not the pass rusher of Dareus but that is why he did not get the same contract as Marcel. He’s just as imposing vs the run and is a great teammate. Worth the the contract he got and glads he’s here. Look across the league, good run stuffing, space eating tackles get paid right around 10 million a year

 

I'm well aware of what Marcells original contract was, something McBeane had no control over. The amount of dead cap associated with Marcell is nearly the exact amount they guaranteed to Star. That means McBeane were willing to pay that amount to a player. So if they were ok paying that amount surely the contract isn't a bad contract, they just didn't like the player.  This is about his contract being bad, which is repeated as to why he isn't here. "Needing to get rid of bad contracts."  It was more about getting "their" guys, which you even admit to by saying he's a great teammate.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Terry Pegula made the same mistake with the Sabres as he did with the Bills when he bought the franchises in the different sports. He thought that a lot of action and money even without much thought would get results. What he painfully learned is that acting for the sake of acting doesn't necessarily translate into success. 

 

With respect to the Bills in his quest for immediate relevancy for the irrelevant franchise he bought he made the stupendous mistake of hiring clown Rex because he believed that it would provide instant recognition. He got that recognition but it wasn't for success so much as it was for buffoonery. 

 

The newbie owner finally learned with both the hockey and football franchise that the road to success is in hiring the right people to run the operation. Pegula is a good owner because he will provide whatever resources that are needed. He is a better owner now because he doesn't interfere with the operation. Very often it takes time for the learning curve to take effect. 

 

 

The Rex hire was the kind of thing a rich sports fan who watches ESPN does. I think he came to realise that it isn't flashy and loud that wins in this league it is methodical and detailed.

[blacklabel]

Wow, I'm surprised at this one. Castillo and McDermott go way back to their days in Philly. I know Castillo is a well-respected coach and there's a lot to be made as to just how inexperienced this team is but if you look at the main starters in the OL, the only rookie was Teller. Dawkins was in his second year and then Groy/Bodine, Miller and Mills are all experienced players. Should've been a little more cohesion along the line but they just never seemed to really settle in. 

 

The other thing to note is that Castillo was also the running game coordinator. Week after week it looked like the same type of runs we're being called and they just weren't working. He just kept beating his head against the wall. No creativity or anything.different to try and get a spark there. That may be a bigger deal as to why he was let go because, at times, pass protection wasn't too bad. But anytime they tried to run it...woof. Obviously losing Wood and Incognito was tough but this is the NFL, gotta adapt. Castillo didn't. 

[mead107]

So he is not out according to shoutbox 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Rex hire was the kind of thing a rich sports fan who watches ESPN does. I think he came to realise that it isn't flashy and loud that wins in this league it is methodical and detailed.

 

Which is ironically what wins in most places and probably what got Terry to where he is. 

[ndirish1978]

17 minutes ago, mead107 said:

So he is not out according to shoutbox 

 

He's out. Been confirmed 2x since that post in the shout box by Skurski and Rodak

Edited January 2, 2019 by ndirish1978

[JM57]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Rex hire was the kind of thing a rich sports fan who watches ESPN does. I think he came to realise that it isn't flashy and loud that wins in this league it is methodical and detailed.

Russ f***in Brandon and the "don't let him off this boat" or whatever stupid thing he said. Ugh, good riddance.

[jkeerie]

6 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Kromer was the best we had during the drought.

Yea...I liked Kromer as well.

[Thriftygamer83]

Where do we go from here?  Do, we have any offensive line coaches in mind?  

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said:

This is the biggest addition to the team next year. Got to hire the right guy. 

The Bills have been hiring and firing offensive line coaches for years. In reality, if the Bills offensive line had talent it would be good. Simple but true. Remember when McNally was going to straighten out our problems up front? He was this respected OL coach but we in fact stayed the same or got worse.

 

The Bills have not ever devoted enough resources to the offensive line. They use most of their best picks on running backs and defensive backs. This is beyond dispute. Another coach will not help. We need to bring in talented players through free agency and early round picks, especially now while we are developing a talented young quarterback.