How long will it take for fans to call for the OC to be fired?

[BigDingus]

Just preemptively stating for the record that although this is obviously a rebuilding year, fans will eventually blame the OC for our offense's failures, even though he may not have a prayer of running a successful offense with the talent & roster at his disposal.

It happens nearly every year or two. The offense sucks, mainly due to lack of talent, bad QB's, and horrible execution (drives killed by penalties, dropped passes, balls being thrown 1 yard past the LOS on 3rd & 8 when there are open receivers,  communication breakdowns, etc.), yet we act like it's the OC's fault for not miraculously overcoming these issues. 

Whether it's Nathaniel Hackett, Greg Roman or Rick Dennison, it's always them that get the axe...mainly because the coach needs a scapegoat & the fans want blood. With our patchwork O-line, least experienced QB unit in the league, 1 WR of note, and not-getting-any-younger RB, it's very likely we're in for a long year. But for whatever reason, fans will convince themselves the opposite, and that everyone else is just a hater (FYI, I'm not).

Other fans will pretend to be realists, stating they understand these issues and expect us to have a rebuilding-type year with a losing record to reflect it. But after witnessing the actual losses on the field, will quickly jump on in anger & say "I figured we'd lose, but that play calling was awful!" or "that performance was even worse than expected, the OC has to go!" without realizing that the playcalling is what it is due to the issues the coaches KNOW they have. It very well may be a lot of run, run, pass, punt due to the limits of our QB behind this line, but will fans care? Nope.

Just throwing this thread out there so people will either A) think about what's happening during the game and WHY it's happening before calling for the OC's head or B) remember we're going to go through growing pains, and the answer isn't always scrap the system each year.

Edited August 29, 2018 by BigDingus

[Buffalo Barbarian]

20 years

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

24 days and 9 hours..

[Utah John]

It isn't the OC's fault the talent on the O line is so bad. 

Whaley and Beane both tried to upgrade the O line through the draft. A lot of their picks haven't worked out, but at least they tried.  And they did get Dawkins.

They tried some FAs too but if Ducasse is the best you can show, you're doing something wrong.  (OK, they did bring in Richie but that was out of desperation.  And even though Richie was playing at a high level, the Bills clearly pushed him out the door by giving him a pay cut after he made the Pro Bowl.  They must have seen the crazies coming on.)

It's also not on Whaley and Beane that Wood developed his neck issues and retired.

The only hope the Bills had was to develop the talent they did have, which requires a great O line coach.  They had a very good O line coach (the guy who had the altercation with the kids on the beach) but they let him go.  The current coach just doesn't seem up to the job.

 

As I said on one of these threads a week ago, if they don't fix the O line, it doesn't matter a bit who plays QB.  There won't be a running game, the QB will get killed, and we'll have to hope the defense wins us a lot of 9-7 games.  It's going to be a long year.

[ColdFront_USAF]

After the first loss where we score ~10 points or less, clueless fans will want his head. After  a season ranked dead last in multiple categories, most fans will. 

 

Hackett was canned because he was the Dave Wannstedt of OCs: incredibly vanilla, and so predictable most fans could tell you what play they were about to run. 

 

Greg Roman was probably the least justified. He was a good fit for our personnel and mostly got fired because Rex needed a scapegoat for the train wreck he was building. Although we did improve when Lynn took over, it was with Roman's playbook, as they wouldn't have had the time to install a new system mid season. 

 

As for Rico, I think McD and Beane looked at all the calls and all the plays to find the problem, and came to the conclusion that it was a combination of Dennison's playcalling and Tyrod's execution, so they moved on from both. I don't think the fans had any influence on that decision. 

[JMF2006]

I think he should be fired now,today,before he gets on the plane to Chicago

 

That will give the new OC time to install his new system before the game tommorow and a whole week to practice  

 

He (the new OC) could also use all that time to try out 5 new off the street  FA starters for the line and maybe a  highly intelligent veteran scrub to run this new amazing system  

Edited August 29, 2018 by JMF2006
spelled chicago wrong ;)

[Doc Brown]

Tough to say as ideally you want a rookie quarterback to have continuality with an offensive system/coordinator.  However, there's a lot of head coaches on the hot seat who were decent offensive coordinators before making the leap.  Jason Garrett, Hue Jackson, Adam Gase, and Jay Gruden come to mind.  In other words, it's way too early to tell as they haven't played a snap yet.

[4_kidd_4]

FIRE EVERYONE

[Xwnyer]

2 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Just preemptively stating for the record that although this is obviously a rebuilding year, fans will eventually blame the OC for our offense's failures, even though he may not have a prayer of running a successful offense with the talent & roster at his disposal.

It happens nearly every year or two. The offense sucks, mainly due to lack of talent, bad QB's, and horrible execution (drives killed by penalties, dropped passes, balls being thrown 1 yard past the LOS on 3rd & 8 when there are open receivers,  communication breakdowns, etc.), yet we act like it's the OC's fault for not miraculously overcoming these issues. 

Whether it's Nathaniel Hackett, Greg Roman or Rick Dennison, it's always them that get the axe...mainly because the coach needs a scapegoat & the fans want blood. With our patchwork O-line, least experienced QB unit in the league, 1 WR of note, and not-getting-any-younger RB, it's very likely we're in for a long year. But for whatever reason, fans will convince themselves the opposite, and that everyone else is just a hater (FYI, I'm not).

Other fans will pretend to be realists, stating they understand these issues and expect us to have a rebuilding-type year with a losing record to reflect it. But after witnessing the actual losses on the field, will quickly jump on in anger & say "I figured we'd lose, but that play calling was awful!" or "that performance was even worse than expected, the OC has to go!" without realizing that the playcalling is what it is due to the issues the coaches KNOW they have. It very well may be a lot of run, run, pass, punt due to the limits of our QB behind this line, but will fans care? Nope.

Just throwing this thread out there so people will either A) think about what's happening during the game and WHY it's happening before calling for the OC's head or B) remember we're going to go through growing pains, and the answer isn't always scrap the system each year.

If I see the play calling we saw in first half of first preseason game I think people will be happy.  If we see whatever he was trying to,do against Bengals they will be screaming for his head after first game.  

[HOUSE]

Won't happen, matter of fact you guys will be all worried about him taking a job elsewhere

[Chandler#81]

Our 2 decade-long QB abyss is the biggest contributor to our Offensive woes, imo. NE has gone through many OC’s and ‘you’ could say GB, LAC, Detroit & others have suspect attack plans. They just have QBs who can pull magic out of their azz. Effective running games eat up the clock, minimizing opponents scoring opportunities. We were forced into this strategy with no legit QB, regardless of the OC.

[Myrtle Beach Bills]

It's not the OC or the head coach, it's the o-line coach that needs to be fired yesterday. Now if Castillo remains then it's on the head coach.  He is the worst o-line coach in the league and it's not even close

[BigBuff423]

I won't speak for anyone else, but Daboll brings the kind of ingenuity I'm willing to give a couple years due to the Offensive mess he inherited. We also need to give him time to develop Josh Allen, whether that's trial by fire with Allen this year or getting Allen going in a year or two. But, that also takes time which as everyone else has said, can make the Offense actually function. 

 

I think the year will actually get better as the games go on and the system sets into the minds of the players and there is continuity on the Offensive line, the QB and skill positions. Right now all we've seen is constant change as they evaluate players and try to give guys reps and playing time. IMHO, continuity and building chemistry with the other players on your side of the ball is an intangible asset that cannot be quantified - only seen in games. Even the Defense which has had its ups and downs has been going through experimental phases along with missing KW and Trent. So, I think the Offense will be "ok" this year - with more dynamic changes in the highs and lows because of who's on the field. That said, next year with the continuity at the QB position, skills position and I would think at least a couple of the Offensive line positions is when I think we see the major step forward. Still, I give Daboll AT LEAST the next two years and probably into the first half of the 3rd before I'm ready to pull the plug on this project. 

[The Process]

Fired after 4 more straight losses in the Superbowl. The last loss was because of a 3 yard pass play called at the goal line when Shady has been averaging 4 yds. per carry in the game....pass gets intercepted. Headline:

 

 Dabol fired after letting  receivers coach Pete Carroll call the last play of the game."

[CaptnCoke11]

Sometime during the first half of the Ravens game I’d imagine 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Is this where the "Fire Daboll" line starts?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Listening to the third hour of Murphy's WGR show yesterday, there was discussion on how offensive linemen coming out of the college ranks are woefully prepared for the professional game.  The few minutes I heard between car stops seemed to indicate a couple of years of pro experience are necessary before offensive linemen are capable of competent play at the NFL level.

[Solomon Grundy]

Fire Juan Castillo, Culley and hire Tony Romo as QB coach.

[KGun12TD]

So, you've decided to throw the first piece of wood in the fire? Why? Why? At least wait till a few game have been played.

[aristocrat]

Run game has looked good so far so hopefully we have a top five run game and at least a qb managing th me game. We can get to 7 wins that way 

[Bob in STL]

Can we play a few games before rushing to judgement on the OC? 

 

Yes, the OL and WR positions appear to be very thin.  There is no veteran QB.  We know. 

[bdutton]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

20 years

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

24 days and 9 hours..

 

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Utah John said:

It isn't the OC's fault the talent on the O line is so bad. 

Whaley and Beane both tried to upgrade the O line through the draft. A lot of their picks haven't worked out, but at least they tried.  And they did get Dawkins.

They tried some FAs too but if Ducasse is the best you can show, you're doing something wrong.  (OK, they did bring in Richie but that was out of desperation.  And even though Richie was playing at a high level, the Bills clearly pushed him out the door by giving him a pay cut after he made the Pro Bowl.  They must have seen the crazies coming on.)

It's also not on Whaley and Beane that Wood developed his neck issues and retired.

The only hope the Bills had was to develop the talent they did have, which requires a great O line coach.  They had a very good O line coach (the guy who had the altercation with the kids on the beach) but they let him go.  The current coach just doesn't seem up to the job.

 

As I said on one of these threads a week ago, if they don't fix the O line, it doesn't matter a bit who plays QB.  There won't be a running game, the QB will get killed, and we'll have to hope the defense wins us a lot of 9-7 games.  It's going to be a long year.

 

The bolded statement is untrue.

• With a decently functional OL, Whaley drafted Cyrus Kouandijo, OT, in the 2nd, Cyril Richard, OG, in the 5th, and Seantrel Henderson, OT, in the 7th in 2014.  He then drafted John Miller, OG, in the 3rd in 2015, and Dion Dawkins, OT,  in the 2nd in 2017.   He also signed FAs Richie Incognito and Justin Mills.  He brought in OG Vlad Ducasse as a backup.  So, yes,  he tried to improve the OL.
• Beane, faced with an OL that struggled in 2017 and the loss of a Pro Bowl OG and an above average OC, allowed back up OTs Kouandijo and Henderson walk in FA, signed bottom feeder FAs Russell Bodine, OC, and Conor McDermott, OT, traded away above average OT Cordy Glenn, and drafted an OG (Wyatt Teller) at the end of the 5th round.    That's called ignoring the OL not trying to fix the OL problems.

I think that the Bills forced Incognito to take a pay cut simply because they don't value the offense, and especially they don't value the OL.  The total dismantling of the offense since McDermott was named HC underscores that lack of value of the offense.  Dismantling a functional offense while giving up a fortune in draft picks for a QB underscores how poorly McDermott and Beane understand offensive football.  Daboll will be the scapegoat for their ignorance.

 

My guess is that fans will start calling for Daboll's head after the third game of the season since the Bills open the season at Baltimore, play the Chargers at home, and then visit the Vikings, three teams with strong pass rushes, and each D better than the last one.  I can't see the OL being effective against those three teams.

Edited August 29, 2018 by SoTier

[Soda Popinski]

Kind of hard to think about it when we haven't played a quarter of meaningful football yet.    Daboll gets a full season from me because of his body of work with the Patriots and last years NT game.   His playcalling and the QB swap at halftime won them that game.   He has been around enough championship games/coaches/teams to know what it takes.   If we don't win IMO it's not because of him.   

 

He'll go somewhere else and have success if we can him.  And we will continue the cycle of mediocrity.   

 

Personally I'll blame Castillo until the Oline is fixed he's the one I'd fire. 

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve been wondering where the offense was that we saw in the first preseason game. In that game the Bills came out with quick snaps, up tempo, short passes, and moved the chains immediately. Ever since then the offense has slowed down considerably. Way more time at the line of scrimmage. Lots of checks or reads, and audibling, etc 

 

I’m praying we look more like what we saw in the first half against Carolina.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

33 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Can we play a few games before rushing to judgement on the OC? 

 

Yes, the OL and WR positions appear to be very thin.  There is no veteran QB.  We know. 

 

...not with TBD's "One And Done Gang" lurking.....asking way too much..............

[Woodman19]

The first drive we fail to get points.

[oldmanfan]

For some here?  The first series against the Ravens.  These are the same folks who get bent out of shape if it takes more than a minute to get their Happy Meal at the drive through.  And God forbid if they don't like the toy.

[bdutton]

33 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’ve been wondering where the offense was that we saw in the first preseason game. In that game the Bills came out with quick snaps, up tempo, short passes, and moved the chains immediately. Ever since then the offense has slowed down considerably. Way more time at the line of scrimmage. Lots of checks or reads, and audibling, etc 

 

I’m praying we look more like what we saw in the first half against Carolina.

 

You mean the game where Peterman started?

 

[jahnyc]

Daboll will get time because of the poor o-line, below average group of WRs and our QBs, including the possibility of a rookie starting QB.  All of these things will allow him to deflect at least some criticism for poor offensive production this year, which I think most people expect in any event.  With this group of players on offense, I would be shocked if we are even close to the middle of the pack in scoring or total yards.

[GunnerBill]

It will happen.  When, I'm not sure, but it will happen. The play calling will be blamed for piss poor execution by below average talent. I said when we lost on the Thursday Night Football to the Jets last year..... you can be the greatest OC in the world when your o-line can't block anyone no play call works.  

[Like A Mofo]

Wait, this hasn't happened yet?

[26CornerBlitz]

The OC needs better Jimmys and Joes for his X's and O's.  

[BuffaloRush]

5 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Just preemptively stating for the record that although this is obviously a rebuilding year, fans will eventually blame the OC for our offense's failures, even though he may not have a prayer of running a successful offense with the talent & roster at his disposal.

It happens nearly every year or two. The offense sucks, mainly due to lack of talent, bad QB's, and horrible execution (drives killed by penalties, dropped passes, balls being thrown 1 yard past the LOS on 3rd & 8 when there are open receivers,  communication breakdowns, etc.), yet we act like it's the OC's fault for not miraculously overcoming these issues. 

Whether it's Nathaniel Hackett, Greg Roman or Rick Dennison, it's always them that get the axe...mainly because the coach needs a scapegoat & the fans want blood. With our patchwork O-line, least experienced QB unit in the league, 1 WR of note, and not-getting-any-younger RB, it's very likely we're in for a long year. But for whatever reason, fans will convince themselves the opposite, and that everyone else is just a hater (FYI, I'm not).

Other fans will pretend to be realists, stating they understand these issues and expect us to have a rebuilding-type year with a losing record to reflect it. But after witnessing the actual losses on the field, will quickly jump on in anger & say "I figured we'd lose, but that play calling was awful!" or "that performance was even worse than expected, the OC has to go!" without realizing that the playcalling is what it is due to the issues the coaches KNOW they have. It very well may be a lot of run, run, pass, punt due to the limits of our QB behind this line, but will fans care? Nope.

Just throwing this thread out there so people will either A) think about what's happening during the game and WHY it's happening before calling for the OC's head or B) remember we're going to go through growing pains, and the answer isn't always scrap the system each year.

 

This year’s Bills team will get more leeway than any other team over the past 17 years since they finally made the playoffs.  I think the Bills could have bad season, and fans will not as impatient in the past because “the drought” is not looming over their heads.

 

The examples of OC’s you shared though were not the best though.  Yes Roman was Rex’s scapegoat after a horrendous start to the year.  I thought he was a pretty good OC.  Still I don’t think fans were calling to fire him.

 

 Hackett was really never fired.  He walked away when Marrone resigned.  Or maybe Rex got rid of him but he technically wasn’t fired as a scapegoat. 

 

Fans definitely questioned Dennison as an OC, which could definitely be justified given the offensive struggles last season.  But he was not fired as a scapegoat.  McDermott easily could have kept him but he made the call to a different direction 

[416BillsFan]

Being the Bills OC provides as much job stability as Australian Prime Minister, or wife to Larry King.

[without a drought]

First 3 and out in the regular season. Unless they run a reverse or trick play for a loss on an important 3rd and short first.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, BigDingus said:

Just preemptively stating for the record that although this is obviously a rebuilding year, fans will eventually blame the OC for our offense's failures, even though he may not have a prayer of running a successful offense with the talent & roster at his disposal.

It happens nearly every year or two. The offense sucks, mainly due to lack of talent, bad QB's, and horrible execution (drives killed by penalties, dropped passes, balls being thrown 1 yard past the LOS on 3rd & 8 when there are open receivers,  communication breakdowns, etc.), yet we act like it's the OC's fault for not miraculously overcoming these issues. 

Whether it's Nathaniel Hackett, Greg Roman or Rick Dennison, it's always them that get the axe...mainly because the coach needs a scapegoat & the fans want blood. With our patchwork O-line, least experienced QB unit in the league, 1 WR of note, and not-getting-any-younger RB, it's very likely we're in for a long year. But for whatever reason, fans will convince themselves the opposite, and that everyone else is just a hater (FYI, I'm not).

Other fans will pretend to be realists, stating they understand these issues and expect us to have a rebuilding-type year with a losing record to reflect it. But after witnessing the actual losses on the field, will quickly jump on in anger & say "I figured we'd lose, but that play calling was awful!" or "that performance was even worse than expected, the OC has to go!" without realizing that the playcalling is what it is due to the issues the coaches KNOW they have. It very well may be a lot of run, run, pass, punt due to the limits of our QB behind this line, but will fans care? Nope.

Just throwing this thread out there so people will either A) think about what's happening during the game and WHY it's happening before calling for the OC's head or B) remember we're going to go through growing pains, and the answer isn't always scrap the system each year.

 

Just a point that I don't think fans calling for anything have much influence on what the coach actually does with his staff.

 

• Hackett did not get the ax, not sure why he's on your list
• Roman was reportedly fired because he was installing 100 plays a week, practicing 30, and calling about 10, and wouldn't take feedback or input from other coaches.  Lynn streamlined the playbook, simplified the install, but told the players "what we put in, you got to learn it cold" and got better results with the same scheme.
• Dennison was fired because reportedly he pushed to start Peterman to the point of "do it or I quit" and made McDermott look like a fool on national TV.  That invited micro-scrutiny of his play calling and scheme which all led to b-bye!

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BuffaloRush said:

 

This year’s Bills team will get more leeway than any other team over the past 17 years since they finally made the playoffs.  I think the Bills could have bad season, and fans will not as impatient in the past because “the drought” is not looming over their heads.

 

The examples of OC’s you shared though were not the best though.  Yes Roman was Rex’s scapegoat after a horrendous start to the year.  I thought he was a pretty good OC.  Still I don’t think fans were calling to fire him.

 

 Hackett was really never fired.  He walked away when Marrone resigned.  Or maybe Rex got rid of him but he technically wasn’t fired as a scapegoat. 

 

Fans definitely questioned Dennison as an OC, which could definitely be justified given the offensive struggles last season.  But he was not fired as a scapegoat.  McDermott easily could have kept him but he made the call to a different direction 

 

The fans liked Roman - he was fired by the blowhard coward to keep his job. 

 

The fans did want Hackett fired - but Marrone kept him and in fact wanted a new contract for him before he walked.

 

The fans wanted Dennison fired - McDermott basically admitted he had made a mistake hiring him (because Dennison ran the offense that any sensible person knew Dennison was going to run) and fired him. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Castillo's seat is hotter, but he's got that tight connection w/ McD.

[vorpma]

And we are off! Wait until November!