Ryan Bates traded

[colin]

the 2025 savings matter, contracts and dead cap can be shifted there.

 

this is the quintessential getting younger and cheaper.  they are looking at places to avoid putting out contracts that don't get value.  the obvious ones are tre, miller, knox and to a much lesser extend milano (bad value last year, as he was hurt, and is often hurt, but is a legit stud ow).

 

but every little helps, and saving 5 sticks on a guy in 2025 who they think doesn't help the team more than the RFA they have on the roster now opens things up.

 

we are going to have to put some cap money into the dline.  maybe draft 2 or even more guys, but we have like 4 guys on the roster, and need 7 or 8 at a bare minimum.  we will not be having 2 and 3 rookies on the DL in games on a consistent basis, so either throw money at d'quan (i dunno, older and hurt might scare them off) or some other 1 tech, and we need another back up 1 tech, and a back up 3 tech, and at least 1 more DE too.  that money has to come from somewhere.

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

All to save a pitance? 1.4 mil? Garbage move.... 

all to save 1.4M and receive a 5th rd pick for a backup 

[Logic]

4 hours ago, DJB said:

Nothing wrong with having great depth especially at the OL spot though. 
 

If the OL is banged up this thread is getting bumped next season by someone for sure 

You're not wrong.

I just think that depth at OL is something Beane has been pretty good at over the years. He hasn't always been great at having quality players at the TOP of the depth chart at OL -- the guard spots have been on-and-off liabilities for years -- but there always seems to be a good group of depth guys.

I think that with Ryan VanDemark emerging at tackle and them liking Alec Anderson a lot at C/G, they've made a conscious decision to go young at OL behind the starters, which is a prudent move from both a money-saving and player development standpoint.

Between the deep OL draft this year and Beane's shrewdness over the years in finding young, overlooked guys in the second and third waves of free agency, I have faith that a Bates replacement will be found. I certainly understand the reticence of those who do not share my belief, though.

[Don Otreply]

12 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

One can hope. Or maybe bypass another solid center for another Boogie Bashem.

You are just a bundle of happiness aren’t you 😂

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Do I think there is a chance the Bills release him? Sure because you save 8.5 million with just 3 million of dead cap and there are a ton of centers on the market. But I think there is a better chance they extend him as at his physical shape he can probably play another 4-5 years.

 

The reason you move on from Morse is it frees up cap space to fill holes at more important positions, namely EDGE and WR. $8.5M is significant.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

26 minutes ago, NewEra said:

all to save 1.4M and receive a 5th rd pick for a backup 

And open up a large chunk of cap room for next year, when we may ‘eat’ Allen’s dead cap. 

[DJB]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The reason you move on from Morse is it frees up cap space to fill holes at more important positions, namely EDGE and WR. $8.5M is significant.

Morse might be the most important piece on our OL.

 

It’s why the past 3 years some board members have been calling for him to be cut but it doesn’t happen. 
 

Unless we have a younger but obvious upgrade it makes no sense in releasing Morse 

[SCBills]

36 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The reason you move on from Morse is it frees up cap space to fill holes at more important positions, namely EDGE and WR. $8.5M is significant.

 

It would be a bit difficult for me to stomach that if they don't trim the fat on Defense, i.e. cut/trade Rasul Douglas.  IMO, he's a similar player to Morse on the Defensive side of the ball.  Good, not elite.  Aging.  One year left on his deal.  We could certainly stand to get younger there.  And with him, we have a former RD1 pick behind him. 

 

And it might make perfect sense to cut Morse.. I don't really agree or disagree either way.  Just the idea that we need to make cap moves and (if they cut Morse and then extend Dawkins, restructure Allen and that's really it) we somehow managed to only clear cap by moving off Josh Allen's starting Center and backup utility G/C lol... again, it might make sense, but it's just another point-to-the-scoreboard moment of those of us who think they invest in Defense to the constant detriment of Josh Allen's help. 

[Westside]

1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

If that 5th gets used to move up in the 1st or 2nd round to get a receiver this board is in love with, no one is going to care about Bates.

Unless our OL gets decimated with injuries, then you’ll wish we still had Bates.

[Big Blitz]

I think it’s also as simple as they like VanDemark and Anderson and probably are resigning Edwards.  
 

Get 1 or 2 other guys especially a backup center and I just don’t think it’s a big deal.  
 

I also think Morse probably has 2-3 seasons left in the tank which could mean we have options with salary.  
 

Have a plan B ready but Center is the absolute last thing I’m worried about.   

I like Morse more then others I know.  

Edited March 5 by Big Blitz

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

The reason you move on from Morse is it frees up cap space to fill holes at more important positions, namely EDGE and WR. $8.5M is significant.

 

I think it's a possibility. I would disagree with it to an extent, but the money savings is significant. I think they should run it back with the same offensive line, something that is very rare today. I would extend Morse and spread out the hit if I can. 

[pocoboy]

I think this is how you have to approach this year - try and pack in the hurt in 2024. Get lots of youth, try to develop some guys, but eat some dead cap on anyone you don't see in future plans. If it means we decline a bit this year, so be it, we have Allen who should cover a multitude of sins. If he's on a Mahomes level like so many of us want to believe, he's gotta start showing that huge salary is justified with less around him.

 

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

34 minutes ago, DJB said:

Morse might be the most important piece on our OL.

 

It’s why the past 3 years some board members have been calling for him to be cut but it doesn’t happen. 
 

Unless we have a younger but obvious upgrade it makes no sense in releasing Morse 

 

Agree wholeheartedly!

 

Let us remember the 🔥tire fire🔥 we had at center in 2018, Josh's first season, when we tried to just cheaply cover the departure of Eric Wood with an incumbent utilityman with limited starting experience at the position (Ryan Groy). Then we tellingly brought in Russell Bodine very late in the preseason, who was not much better.

 

BBB's first order of business after making rookie Josh scramble for his life was to bring in Morse, who has been rock solid since his arrival here in 2019.

 

I think we should extend Morse by a year or two to help our current cap situation. And based on last year, we should not in any way mess around with those five starters on that O line for any reason!

 

The trading away of "Rick" Bates, a potentially more economical replacement as a starting C, seems to indicate this is what BBB is probably planning to do.

[KOKBILLS]

The Bills have 11 picks now...

 

So...to me at least...Here's what this trade means.

 

Trading their 3rd round (comp) pick should get the Bills up to about 23rd overall.

Trading their 4th round pick should get the Bills up to about 26th overall. 

Trading both those picks and a little something from next year could get them into the 20th overall range. 

 

I think they are Brian Thomas hunting... We'll see... 

Edited March 5 by KOKBILLS

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Let it play out. 

 

Moving on from him now saves $5.4M against the 2025 cap next year. Which means that Beane now has a tad more flexibility to sign an impactful player and add a void year with no net loss to dead cap next season. 

 

That could be the difference between signing a Leonard Floyd type player as opposed to a low level EDGE. 

 

 

Yeah, this is the point of trading Bates.

 

The cap room gained next season is just as valuable as it is now.   Getting under the cap before UFA isn't really going to be a challenge.    Bates is excellent depth but as they get deeper into cap debt they need to sacrifice experienced depth for youth.   Anderson and Van Demark represent the youth replacing Bates versatility as the C/swing tackle.   I think that's a better situation than relying on Eli Ankou as the depth at DT1T, for instance.      

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

Morse might be the most important piece on our OL.

 

I don't agree with this at all. Dawkins is inarguably our most important OL. I think center is the least important position on the OL. As long as they are capable and can snap the ball reliably, and you have a vet QB that can set his own protections, I just don't see it as a difficult position to fill. I'd much rather have two stalwart guards than a stalwart center.

[Prospector]

28 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

I think it’s also as simple as they like VanDemark and Anderson and probably are resigning Edwards.  
 

Get 1 or 2 other guys especially a backup center and I just don’t think it’s a big deal.  
 

I also think Morse probably had 2-3 seasons left in the tank which could mean we have options with salary.  
 

Have a plan B ready but Center is the absolute last thing I’m worried about.   

I like Morse then others I know.  

You like Morse, then after that, you like others that you know? I am pretty sure you can like multiple people at the same time.

 

Unless you meant that you like Morse more than others do... which would make morse sense now that I think about it.

[HappyDays]

46 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

It would be a bit difficult for me to stomach that if they don't trim the fat on Defense, i.e. cut/trade Rasul Douglas.  IMO, he's a similar player to Morse on the Defensive side of the ball.  Good, not elite.  Aging.  One year left on his deal.  We could certainly stand to get younger there.  And with him, we have a former RD1 pick behind him. 

 

And it might make perfect sense to cut Morse.. I don't really agree or disagree either way.  Just the idea that we need to make cap moves and (if they cut Morse and then extend Dawkins, restructure Allen and that's really it) we somehow managed to only clear cap by moving off Josh Allen's starting Center and backup utility G/C lol... again, it might make sense, but it's just another point-to-the-scoreboard moment of those of us who think they invest in Defense to the constant detriment of Josh Allen's help. 

 

CB is a lot more important than center though. I've said elsewhere if they cut Douglas for the cap savings and force Elam onto the field I don't have a problem with it, but for me if it's a choice between Morse and Douglas I'm sticking with the more valuable and difficult to fill position. Offense vs defense only comes into my mind if we're talking about equal positional value, i.e. WR vs EDGE I would rather spend our resources on WR.

[Billl]

4 hours ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

That trade value is terrible. Only thing that makes sense is he is a cap casualty.

What do you think the going rate is for backup centers?  I think they did well to get anything more than a seventh rounder for him.

[HappyDays]

18 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think they should run it back with the same offensive line, something that is very rare today.

 

So I think about NFL roster building like a game of whack-a-mole. It's impossible to solve every problem and often times solving one problem creates another problem elsewhere. So I accept that losing Morse creates a problem, namely in continuity like you say. But if we use his savings to solve a different problem at a more important position it is still a net gain for the team. I would rather lose IOL continuity to gain WR or EDGE talent than vice versa.

[DJB]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't agree with this at all. Dawkins is inarguably our most important OL. I think center is the least important position on the OL. As long as they are capable and can snap the ball reliably, and you have a vet QB that can set his own protections, I just don't see it as a difficult position to fill. I'd much rather have two stalwart guards than a stalwart center.

I don’t agree. Yes LT is the most important position but C is the 2nd most important as they are the brain of the OL. Setting protections and covering those A gaps with how defenses are attacking is very important. 
 

Another poster above alluded to as well how bad Josh was before Morse was here and he has been paramount in Josh’ development. The guard spots to me are the least important on the line 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I actually disagree with the sentiment we won’t use the vast majority of these picks. I think we’ll make an early trade to get a guy of need but this team desperately needs to get young and quick. 

 

Yeah I HOPE we use all of these picks. One way Beane could stop the bleeding with our cap issues is to replace the likes of Tim Settle and Ryan Bates with late round rookie contracts. Instead of paying players like Siran Neal and Tyler Matakevich, find special teams aces in rounds 6 and 7. The biggest thing hurting our team right now is that the bottom of the roster is full of bloated contracts. We need a big philosophical change to our spending habits, starting with this upcoming draft.

[msw2112]

14 hours ago, QCity said:

 

Seems like a small amount of space to give up that much versatility. 

 

I was thinking the same thing.  Bates can play any of the 5 positions along the line and has starting experience at guard.  The Bills were fortunate to go the entire season without injuries on the OL, but that's unlikely to be the situation again this upcoming season.  It's possible that Bates asked out so that he could get an opportunity to start and Beane did him a solid, and along the way, saved some salary and cap space and netted a 5th rounder in return.  

 

I typically give Beane the benefit of the doubt.  I don't think they would have made this move without 1) a good reason to make it; and 2) a plan for replacing the function that Bates provided to the team.

[Scott7975]

Not a bad trade. I don't mind it.  I just feel like this year we will start having the bad luck with the oline injuries.  That the crap that seems to happen to our team.

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Not a bad trade. I don't mind it.  I just feel like this year we will start having the bad luck with the oline injuries.  That the crap that seems to happen to our team.

 

If they bring back David Edwards, their primary active Gameday backups could likely be Edwards, Anderson and Van Demark.  That's a vet they like and then two guys they've now spent some time developing .. who by all accounts, the organization are very high on.  

 

I'm not overly worried.   I like our Top 7 under contract as it currently stands.  

[mannc]

The trade could just be a case of the organization doing right by Ryan Bates…giving him a chance to start for an NFL team, an opportunity he really doesn’t have in Buffalo, barring injury.  At the same time, it’s not a trade that hurts the Bills in any significant way…

[T master]

15 hours ago, IBTG81 said:

Bated traded to Chicago for their 5th round pick. 

 

With a trade like this do the Bears also acquire his contract that he had with the Bills or do the Bills still have that against their cap because of the 5th round pick makes them even ? 

 

Stupid minds about the cap want to know !

 

 

Edited March 5 by T master

[Nephilim17]

12 minutes ago, T master said:

 

With a trade like this do the Bears also acquire his contract that he had with the Bills or do the Bills still have that against their cap because of the 5th round pick makes them even ? 

 

Stupid minds about the cap want to know !

 

 

Spotrac says the Bears pick up his 4 million per year deal for 2 years.

[SoCal Deek]

56 minutes ago, Billl said:

What do you think the going rate is for backup centers?  I think they did well to get anything more than a seventh rounder for him.

These are the folks who would scream if the trade was reversed and we gave up a 5th round pick for somebody else’s backup center. 😂

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Magox said:

This move puzzles me a bit.  The cap savings this year is minimal, however in 2025 I believe the cap savings is over $5m.   
 

Bates I thought all along was going to be given pole position on being Morse’s replacement and provided valuable depth.   I’m not sure a 5th rounder and some cap savings is enough of a trade off.    
 

Beane and McD must really like who we have on the roster that can replace what Bates was providing.

 

Bates, in his 5 years in Buffalo had 1436 snaps and only 203 at Center.  I personally never understood how fans had him as a Mitch Morse

replacement level player at the Center position.  He performed decently but the coaches know more about what his effectiveness

would be at Center better than me.  

 

Beane hopefully takes a couple of these Day 3 picks and get a true college center that can take over when Morse hangs them up.

[Xerx]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't agree with this at all. Dawkins is inarguably our most important OL. I think center is the least important position on the OL. As long as they are capable and can snap the ball reliably, and you have a vet QB that can set his own protections, I just don't see it as a difficult position to fill. I'd much rather have two stalwart guards than a stalwart center.

 

I'm not sure this applies in 2024 that LT is most important OL position, it used to be for sure when QB's where far less mobile and stayed in pocket.

 

The game has evolved quite a bit, evading a quick beat off the edge is far easier than one up the middle

 

With how much shotgun Allen prefers to be in, his blind side isn't as open as a straight drop back.

 

Elite offenses/QB's seem to have a high level center was more often than not as well over the past 20 years

[CaptnCoke11]

They obviously feel good about Alec Anderson to make this trade.  Pretty good value for 4million a year guy who hardly plays.  

[No_Matter_What]

Am I really the only one who doesn't see this 5th round pick as ammo for trade up only?

 

I for one want Beane to use those pick to draft 10-11 players and then I want 8-9 or them to actually make a team. Don't bring tons of random useless vets, draft and use cheap talent.

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Prospector said:

 

 

Unless you meant that you like Morse more than others do... which would make morse sense now that I think about it.

 

This was what I meant.  Yes

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Am I really the only one who doesn't see this 5th round pick as ammo for trade up only?

 

I for one want Beane to use those pick to draft 10-11 players and then I want 8-9 or them to actually make a team. Don't bring tons of random useless vets, draft and use cheap talent.

That's an interesting comment. For over a decade people would critique the Patriots strategy of moving down and stockpiling picks. They had their Franchise QB in place. But I have to admit that I never followed it close enough to know if Billy B stuck with those picks on Draft Day, or used them as trade bait to move up. Does anyone know?

[No_Matter_What]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I HOPE we use all of these picks. One way Beane could stop the bleeding with our cap issues is to replace the likes of Tim Settle and Ryan Bates with late round rookie contracts. Instead of paying players like Siran Neal and Tyler Matakevich, find special teams aces in rounds 6 and 7. The biggest thing hurting our team right now is that the bottom of the roster is full of bloated contracts. We need a big philosophical change to our spending habits, starting with this upcoming draft.

Oh now I see I am not the only one I wrote something similar couple posts above. Exactly this. Don't fill all holes by vet FAs before draft. Draft good and roster draft picks.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

I don’t agree. Yes LT is the most important position but C is the 2nd most important as they are the brain of the OL. Setting protections and covering those A gaps with how defenses are attacking is very important. 
 

Another poster above alluded to as well how bad Josh was before Morse was here and he has been paramount in Josh’ development. The guard spots to me are the least important on the line 

 

It is easy to say "how bad Josh was" before Morse got here...doesn't mean the correlation is that Morse getting here was the biggest catalyst to Josh's development when Morse joined Buffalo.  Josh was an ascending QB the moment he last stepped off Wyoming's football field.  Nothing against Morse, but some of you are heaping way too much credit onto Morse for Josh Allens development.  

 

Its kind of crazy how many people get "credit" for Josh Allens development.  It is talked about as if Josh never would have developed without "X" person and just glosses over Allens insane talent level combined with his commitment, drive, and competitiveness.  All anyone needs to do is watch his first road game as a double digit underdog vs Minnesota to see that what Josh Allen has become was inevitable, he was going to get there one way or another.  

 

Im not saying nobody had a role in his development, but its weird to me that Mahomes, Burrow, Rodgers, etc never get that same statement of how they developed because of so and so, people just accept their talent level as to why they are so good.  With Allen, its never about how talented he is, its alwasy talked about it being because of Daboll, or because he has Diggs, etc etc.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

I don’t agree. Yes LT is the most important position but C is the 2nd most important as they are the brain of the OL. Setting protections and covering those A gaps with how defenses are attacking is very important. 
 

Another poster above alluded to as well how bad Josh was before Morse was here and he has been paramount in Josh’ development. The guard spots to me are the least important on the line 

Generally agree. 

I'd just add that any good DC can find the weak link on the OL and exploit it. The last few years that was generally up the middle against our very poor OGs. 

Beane fixed both guard spots in one year and it looks like Brown is good enough at RT. 

Just need Dawkins and Morse to stay healthy and above average for one more year.

[eball]

7 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Huh?

 

Maybe I phrased it poorly...if the Bills simply cut Bates they'd be fully on the hook for and dead cap part of his contract, but by trading him they have more cap savings...I think?

[Rubes]

2 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 

I was thinking the same thing.  Bates can play any of the 5 positions along the line and has starting experience at guard.  The Bills were fortunate to go the entire season without injuries on the OL, but that's unlikely to be the situation again this upcoming season.  It's possible that Bates asked out so that he could get an opportunity to start and Beane did him a solid, and along the way, saved some salary and cap space and netted a 5th rounder in return.  

 

I typically give Beane the benefit of the doubt.  I don't think they would have made this move without 1) a good reason to make it; and 2) a plan for replacing the function that Bates provided to the team.

 

Bingo.