Ryan Bates traded

[Brandon]

5 minutes ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

That trade value is terrible. Only thing that makes sense is he is a cap casualty.

 

To the rest of the league, he's just a backup OG.  Maybe he's worth more to the Bills,  but the value they got is more than fair for what he is.  

[Long Suffering Fan]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

If Joe Buscaglia’s post is correct, it seems like we just wanted the pick… because that’s not exactly a cap space maneuver for a guy we all thought they viewed highly as a versatile depth piece. 

 

2 hours ago, eball said:

Haven’t read through the entire thread, but I imagine the reason they couldn’t get more than a 5th is because by trading Bates they discard the entire cap hit rather than having dead cap if they released him?  That’s a nearly 5M savings.

 

Cap space is like draft picks - 

 

1.  It can be converted into players.

2.  A draft pick in the same round is worth more this year, than next year.

 

Because of the way a cap hit can be pushed to future years (but eventually the bill comes due), I always look at total cap space saved - this year and in the future.  Say we only save 1.4M this year, but 5M overall.  That 3.6M we save in 2025 is still valuable.  It allows us to possibly restructure another contract and push more money into next year.  If we don't, then it helps us next year.

 

I get that we have to have the other contract to restructure and I get that we could do it anyway without the trade and just make our cap situation worse in 2025.  Cap space this year is always worth more, but cap space in the future always has value - like draft picks.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

8 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

From the sounds of it from Ian Rappaport, Thomas and Worthy will be WR4 and WR5. My guess is neither reach 28. I think we'll be safe to sit close to 28 or move up 2-3 slots give or take to land Legette or Mitchell.

 

After Higgins, Pittman, and Evans were retained and WR's leapt off the screen during The Combine - I suspect we're probably looking closer to WR6 or WR7 in the area we're in than WR4 or WR5, as I expected before.

 

Thomas will probably cost too much, unless Worthy really does hop him, as Rappaport implied could be a reality after talking to execs. Maybe then Thomas as WR5 would be worth a bigger package than I expect Beane to offer.

 

But my gut and bets are with that it will be either Xavier Legette or Adonai Mitchell, with a smaller trade up if WR6 comes off the board prior to Pick 27.

Ehhh, I would make a small jump for Thomas or Worthy. The others? Tell me how distinctly Legette, Franklin, McCorkle and Mitchell are better or worse than each other? Because it looks like the drop off is right before or after one of those guys.

 

I'm not saying they are *bad* but the first tier looks like players who could outplay Diggs at some point. The others are plug and play #2 but leaves us without a Diggs succession plan.

[Matt_In_NH]

So this gets you a 5th this year and helps the cap next year, it is kind of a cap neutral move for 2024....saves 1.44M but that has to be replaced so saves a little but the real savings is next year.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Current Draft Capital, including forecasted Comp pick for Edmunds, and their Modern Trade Chart Value:

 

Round 1 - 28 (209)
Round 2 - 60 (88)
Round 3 - 99 (36)
Round 4 - 129 (18)
Round 5 - 143 (14)
Round 5 - 159 (10)
Round 5 - 162 (10)
Round 6 - 192 (6)
Round 6 - 198 (5)
Round 6 - 206 (4)
Round 7 - 246 (1)

 

Lots of capital for movement around, especially on Day 3. No chance we use all of these picks.

Oh, Beane is doing something. That was a given with Beane. I suspect this year will have more rookies cracking the roster than in previous years, but I fully expect a trade up to happen somewhere.

 

As I am seeing the big boards rise and fall, I am wondering if the Bills wait out and take BPA at 28, then blitz spending to get a WR or DE at the top of round 2.

[BuffaloBill]

10 hours ago, Augie said:

We OWN the 5th round! It’s like the 12th Man, we own that round. 

 

Bean is seeking to have every pick in that round.

[DJB]

Remember when we traded  Wyatt for a late pick? How did that turn out?

 

Not saying Bates is the next Wyatt but man it’s rough to see decent oline guys go

[Ya Digg?]

17 minutes ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

That trade value is terrible. Only thing that makes sense is he is a cap casualty.

They got a 5th round pick for a backup lineman who only played 35 snaps, what could they possibly have expected to get?! Switch it up and let’s say the Bills traded a 4th or 3rd rounder for what I just described-this place would absolutely burn to the ground 

[Tenhigh]

10 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Most of them repetitive posts. This is the way.

Many of them repetitive posts. You are right, this is the way. 

[4thandGoal]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

Nothing wrong with having great depth especially at the OL spot though. 
 

If the OL is banged up this thread is getting bumped next season by someone for sure 

Alec Anderson is just as good as Ryan Bates.  

 

21 minutes ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

That trade value is terrible. Only thing that makes sense is he is a cap casualty.

Again ALec Anderson equals Ryan Bates ---   and now less cap and and a draft pick

[Brandon]

6 minutes ago, DJB said:

Remember when we traded  Wyatt for a late pick? How did that turn out?

 

Not saying Bates is the next Wyatt but man it’s rough to see decent oline guys go

 

I'd rather they kept him as well,  but Bates has been in the organization for awhile.  They know what he is.  Their mistake with Wyatt Teller is that they gave up after his rookie year and didn't give him a chance to develop. 

Edited March 5 by Brandon

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, DJB said:

Remember when we traded  Wyatt for a late pick? How did that turn out?

 

Not saying Bates is the next Wyatt but man it’s rough to see decent oline guys go

I hope for Bates's sake that he is the next Wyatt Teller.  We've had quite a bit of time for that to come to pass, though, and it hasn't happened. 

14 minutes ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

 

 

Cap space is like draft picks - 

 

1.  It can be converted into players.

2.  A draft pick in the same round is worth more this year, than next year.

 

Because of the way a cap hit can be pushed to future years (but eventually the bill comes due), I always look at total cap space saved - this year and in the future.  Say we only save 1.4M this year, but 5M overall.  That 3.6M we save in 2025 is still valuable.  It allows us to possibly restructure another contract and push more money into next year.  If we don't, then it helps us next year.

 

I get that we have to have the other contract to restructure and I get that we could do it anyway without the trade and just make our cap situation worse in 2025.  Cap space this year is always worth more, but cap space in the future always has value - like draft picks.

Here's what it probably means:

 

1.  Morse will return; 

2.  Alec Anderson graduates onto the game-day roster; 

3.  There is a nominal cap savings (Anderson's replacement is cheaper than Bates); 

4.  Beane has a little extra capital to burn on something like a trade up, or a special teams option (gotta replace Matakevich and maybe Siran Neal), or a Bates replacement, or a "one special trait" guy, or whatever he desires as we try to get the roster a bit younger.  

[nucci]

11 hours ago, taglientep said:

It’s almost essentially a fourth round draft, pick considering where Chicago is drafting this year

No, it's still in the 5th round

[Bigvinny]

Greg Cover 1 

@GregTompsett

Random side note. Since Bates was a UDFA, if we had simply not matched Chicago’s original offer and let him go, BUF would have gotten no draft compensation. Instead they got 1 year of starting play, 1 year of backup depth and a 5th round pick

[MrEpsYtown]

I have always been a big Bates guy, so I am sorry to see him go. I think he has talent. But the bottom line is that the Bills acquired guys who are better than him and the Bears have wanted him for a while. This compensation is fair and quite good, to be honest. 

 

I do not think that Alec Anderson ever amounts to anything, but I suppose he is an interesting body. I do think they try to re-sign David Edwards and as others have mentioned Brian Allen was released as was Mason Cole and Cody Whitehair. In addition, cheap guys who can play guard and center like the other Connor McGovern, Evan Brown, Lucas Patrick, Dan Feeney are all free agents. The Bills will be fine in terms of OL depth. 

 

Some hot takes in this thread are interesting. If I never have to hear the name Creed Humphrey again I will be extremely happy. I think he is a very good player. He is a top center in the NFL right now. I don't care what PFF says, I would take Tyler Linderbaum and Frank Ragnow over him, but after that, it's probably Humphrey. He is not the greatest center of all time. He has his ups and downs and goes through games in which he can't even get the snap back but he is surrounded by two all-pro guards and a QB who makes everyone look better. Again, very good player, like top 5 in the league. But I just wish we could move on as a fanbase. 

 

Mitch Morse had a really good last two years and has been playing some of his best football. The notion that he is made of glass and has a brain of mush is just silly at this point. He started 20 games this year and had zero issues that we know of. Contrary to popular belief, he is not old. He is 32 years old this April and in tremendous shape. Do I think there is a chance the Bills release him? Sure because you save 8.5 million with just 3 million of dead cap and there are a ton of centers on the market. But I think there is a better chance they extend him as at his physical shape he can probably play another 4-5 years. I think they should strive for continuity there and keep those starters together for at least another year. The fact that were willing to move Bates tells me the plan is to bring Morse back as they let go of the guy they were grooming to replace him. 

 

Finally, I wish Bates well. He will likely be the Bears starter at center as they finally get their guy and the rest of the O-line is mostly set for them. 

 

I like the trade because it gives a good soldier a chance to start elsewhere. It also adds to the pile of compensation the Bills could use to move around the draft board. 

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, nucci said:

No, it's still in the 5th round

It’s essentially a first round pick. Beane is a wizard 

[Coach Tuesday]

33 minutes ago, DJB said:

Remember when we traded  Wyatt for a late pick? How did that turn out?

 

Not saying Bates is the next Wyatt but man it’s rough to see decent oline guys go

Not the year to be a hoarder.  

[mjt328]

The Chiefs got an early 5th Round Pick for a backup O-Lineman?  Total genius move.

 

Wait... it was the Bills who made this trade?  What an awful decision getting rid of depth for a worthless Day 3 pick.

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

The Chiefs got an early 5th Round Pick for a backup O-Lineman?  Total genius move.

 

Wait... it was the Bills who made this trade?  What an awful decision getting rid of depth for a worthless Day 3 pick.

Let’s win three Superbowls and then we’ll start getting the benefit of the doubt the Chiefs do lol.

[wppete]

11 hours ago, FITZamishRIFLE said:

BBB is moving up in draft

Rome Odunze. Calling it right now! 

[gjv]

I would guess that Beane, McDermott, and Kromer didn't want to trade Bates. But getting cap-compliant is going to be full of unwanted moves. 

[harmonkillebrew]

Wyatt Teller 2.0

[BarleyNY]

40 minutes ago, Bigvinny said:

Greg Cover 1 

@GregTompsett

Random side note. Since Bates was a UDFA, if we had simply not matched Chicago’s original offer and let him go, BUF would have gotten no draft compensation. Instead they got 1 year of starting play, 1 year of backup depth and a 5th round pick

 

That’s all true, but I’d counter that his level of play as a starter was below average and the above came at a cost of $9M in cash and cap space. Not the end of the world or anything, but no one should be thinking this was a W for the Bills. Especially when they could’ve kept him in 2022 for less with a higher tender. 

Edited March 5 by BarleyNY

[Westside]

11 hours ago, Augie said:

We OWN the 5th round! It’s like the 12th Man, we own that round. 

Have we already won the draft? lol

[Spiderweb]

I do NOT like this move. A 5th round pick for a very solid OL player who can play tackle to center. I guess Beane wants to have no depth anymore...

[Westside]

21 minutes ago, wppete said:

Rome Odunze. Calling it right now! 

When in Rome.........

[gonzo1105]

I actually disagree with the sentiment we won’t use the vast majority of these picks. I think we’ll make an early trade to get a guy of need but this team desperately needs to get young and quick. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

I do NOT like this move. A 5th round pick for a very solid OL player who can play tackle to center. I guess Beane wants to have no depth anymore...

If I understand our Cap position he really has no choice. He pretty much has to unload any and all redundancy (depth) that he’s got. And if he can get a draft pick in return, then that’s better than just releasing guys for nothing. 

Edited March 5 by SoCal Deek

[Spiderweb]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

If I understand our Cap position he really has no choice. He pretty much has to unload any and all redundancy (depth) that he’s got. And if he can get a draft pick in return, then that’s better than just releasing guys for nothing. 

Maybe so but the cap problem was of Beane's own making. Can we cut Beane instead?

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

Maybe so but the cap problem was of Beane's own making. Can we cut Beane instead?

What’s your solution? Not sign players to make the team competitive?

 

It’s cyclical, man. 

[Hsker4life]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

Remember when we traded  Wyatt for a late pick? How did that turn out?

 

Not saying Bates is the next Wyatt but man it’s rough to see decent oline guys go

Remember when we drafted Matt Milano in the 5th round? How did that turn out? 
 

Not saying whoever we draft with this pick is the next Milano, but man it’s good to acquire draft picks for backup players.

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

Maybe so but the cap problem was of Beane's own making. Can we cut Beane instead?

That’s true but he doesn’t count against the Cap. So far I see very little drama or controversy here. It’s inevitable! 

[BuffaloRebound]

Pretty safe to say Chicago is only team in NFL who would’ve given up a 5th rounder for Bates.  There’s seriously people upset about trading a guy making $4m per year who got demoted to 35 snaps last year? Maybe Beane can get pick #9 from the Bears for Diggs.  

[Spiderweb]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

That’s true but he doesn’t count against the Cap. So far I see very little drama or controversy here. It’s inevitable! 

All to save a pitance? 1.4 mil? Garbage move.... 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

5 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

All to save a pitance? 1.4 mil? Garbage move.... 

If that 5th gets used to move up in the 1st or 2nd round to get a receiver this board is in love with, no one is going to care about Bates.

[MikePJ76]

 

[Xerx]

"We need to get younger"

 

Beane trades a 27yr old career back-up for a 5th round pick

 

"No, Not that way"

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

All to save a pitance? 1.4 mil? Garbage move.... 

And you would make what move instead? There’s a great thread that shows the overall roster laid out with the players all listed in groups (starters, reserves, under contract, etc). Go take a look at that one. As both you and I have said, Beane has tied his own hands. There will be two overarching themes to Off Season 2024: (1) a lot of turnover of non-starters and (2) some creative wizardry of contract negotiations with the starters that remain. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

All to save a pitance? 1.4 mil? Garbage move.... 

Let it play out. 

 

Moving on from him now saves $5.4M against the 2025 cap next year. Which means that Beane now has a tad more flexibility to sign an impactful player and add a void year with no net loss to dead cap next season. 

 

That could be the difference between signing a Leonard Floyd type player as opposed to a low level EDGE. 

[Sestak4ever]

This may have been a mutually agreed upon move. They help Bates by putting him in a place where he could start. Sort of helps all parties involved.