The Bills final possession

[Peace Frog]

On the Josh fumble, O'Cyrus was left to block Wilkins by himself and whiffed on the block. Mitch Morse had nobody in front of him to block and should've help Torrence out.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

If they call that series at that point with that much fear in the playoffs, it will bite them on the bippy.

They have got to run their offense there and play for points, not start clock-watching with 6+ minutes left.

McDermott, Brady and Allen should be prepared with a plan to be aggressive with a one score lead in the 4th qrtr or I think they'll regret it.

 

Agree. I liked the go for it calls. But the playcalling from Brady was too conservative. You attempt your safe pass plays on 1st or 2nd down and run on 3rd. Not the other way round. Teams always sell out to play the run on 1st down and Miami was no different. That is your best down to complete a pass.

[Bill Grundy]

1 hour ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

The tush push is pretty much always the right call unless your QB is tiny.  Run it every time until the league bans it.

 

Brady stealing this play has got us to the playoffs. It's such a no brainer once its out there. Dorsey's shotgun draws were insufferable.

[davefan66]

3 minutes ago, Bill Grundy said:

 

Brady stealing this play has got us to the playoffs. It's such a no brainer once its out there. Dorsey's shotgun draws were insufferable.

I also like the reduction in number of plays trying to draw teams Offside with Josh barking at the LOS.  Rather see them tush push the bobsled then watch that worn out play.

[mannc]

4 hours ago, Simon said:

If they call that series at that point with that much fear in the playoffs, it will bite them on the bippy.

They have got to run their offense there and play for points, not start clock-watching with 6+ minutes left.

McDermott, Brady and Allen should be prepared with a plan to be aggressive with a one score lead in the 4th qrtr or I think they'll regret it.

That series was permeated by by the odor of McDermott’s fear…

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

On the Josh fumble, O'Cyrus was left to block Wilkins by himself and whiffed on the block. Mitch Morse had nobody in front of him to block and should've help Torrence out.

This. Noticed a couple of times where Morse went to his left to help McGovern and Torrence was getting beat, need to slide protection towards the rookie when he has a superior defender in front of him than the one McGovern has.

[Xwnyer]

They became predictable running on first down on five consecutive attempts.  Fins started run blitzing and a good play action would have made big plays.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, davefan66 said:

I also like the reduction in number of plays trying to draw teams Offside with Josh barking at the LOS.  Rather see them tush push the bobsled then watch that worn out play.

 

I want to see Josh bark trying to get D Offside, then snapping the ball, trying to catch opposing team sleeping, thinking no play, its an attempt to draw D Offside.  We can use that to our advantage

Edited January 8 by Pete

[KellyToTasker]

5 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

I agree with clock watching against Miami. They are exactly the type of offense that can score easily in a flash. I personally would have kicked the long field goal to try to take a 10 point lead but I had no issue with how we ran that drive up to that point

No way do you attempt a 55 yard field goal there. Don’t take the ball away from the best player on the field and give it to a kicker, especially when it’s 4th and less than 1 (I do like Bass, but no, you don’t do that). 

[Gman10]

If Allen threw an interception on that play, Im curious if there would be a thread saying he should have ran the ball instead and throwing in a situation like that is idiotic lol

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, KellyToTasker said:

No way do you attempt a 55 yard field goal there. Don’t take the ball away from the best player on the field and give it to a kicker, especially when it’s 4th and less than 1 (I do like Bass, but no, you don’t do that). 

 

Tyler Bass is hurt. I promise you all. We will find out after the season there has been something lingering with Bass. They have been way more conservative with him all year on longer kicks. There is a reason. 

 

I agree with you. You go for it on 4th down there. 

[GaryPinC]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I thought they were fortunate to even get it to that point and would have had a better chance to close out by continuing to do what they'd been doing successfully all night.

I totally agree with you in principle,  but have to support McDermott's decision. 

 

I'm okay with being so conservative this year because Josh has reverted to forcing stupid situations and turnovers too much.  That last pass of the first half was even more painful then his turnovers and inexcusable for a veteran QB.

[BarleyNY]

I was pleasantly surprised to see McDermott go for it twice on fourth and short on that last drive. It shows real growth. 

[boyst]

6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

On another note, our running game with the backs was crap. What happened to the o-line tonight? 

The dolphins filled gaps quickly, have a very fast defense in total, our OL struggled (some of the worst games we have seen for the year), and most importantly we couldn't get outside and kept trying to do so. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

The dolphins filled gaps quickly, have a very fast defense in total, our OL struggled (some of the worst games we have seen for the year), and most importantly we couldn't get outside and kept trying to do so. 

 

Yea our run game with Cook kind of needs the stretch plays to create the cut back lanes as well. It is designed so that every run looks like it could be a perimeter run at the exchange but then sometimes he attacks upfield. The problem last night was the Dolphins speed getting outside meant our pulling linemen never had time to get to their landmarks and as such we probably had more negative runs than any other game this year. And it meant they could continue to play tight fronts inside because they weren't as worried as most teams about being gashed on the edge. I'd have gone to more playoff Lenny and a cloud of dust sooner. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Bills had Miami’s D on the ropes.  They had no answer for our passing game at the end.  Running it on every down was helping the Dolphins out, but I can’t complain too much since we were a foot away from ending the game on offense.  

[HOUSE]

6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I was screaming at my TV to not run the last tush push play they tried. It was a full yard. And Miami was playing it well at that point. I actually would have been fine with them attempting the Fournette wild cat play they showed prior to the timeout. 

You were screaming at the actual TV?

[ILBillsfan]

That was the first time this season that they failed to convert w needing one yard for a first down all year....... i am fine with them doing it everytime........

[boyst]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea our run game with Cook kind of needs the stretch plays to create the cut back lanes as well. It is designed so that every run looks like it could be a perimeter run at the exchange but then sometimes he attacks upfield. The problem last night was the Dolphins speed getting outside meant our pulling linemen never had time to get to their landmarks and as such we probably had more negative runs than any other game this year. And it meant they could continue to play tight fronts inside because they weren't as worried as most teams about being gashed on the edge. I'd have gone to more playoff Lenny and a cloud of dust sooner. 

this or a play i had seen earlier in the year, i think from Miami.

 

The fake handoff to one side and turn the other way to an upfield screen. Miami ran a variation of it last night and it was great. They faked the handoff to Achane to the left and tua turns around to throw it 3-4 yards on the right with 2 or 3 lineman downfield on the screen.

 

our origination has been lacking since Daboll.

[Livinginthepast]

I have no problem going for it on the 4th down and no problem with the sneak. I also think that Josh may have got the first down on that play and for the millionth time I am wondering aloud why the NFL: 

 

a) Has no chip in the ball to do an accurate spot.

or

b)  a guaranteed fully overhead camera shot to show a better view. Sometimes this is available, other times it isnt. 

 

For a Billion $ league to continue to use 1950's guessing instead of accurate updated technology for these types of plays, when other sports like tennis have the tech is just idiotic. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, ILBillsfan said:

That was the first time this season that they failed to convert w needing one yard for a first down all year....... i am fine with them doing it everytime........

What bothered me, and I’ll never understand why teams do it, is that they bunched up our entire offense in the middle of the field. Seems to me that only serves to bring the defense in as well…and it did. If you’re going to do that, seems like the better thing would be to go wide on the play with a pitch or bootleg.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I gotta disagree here.  The clock was our ally and the strategy worked.  Tua ended up needing to drive the field with no timeouts and got baited into a game ending mistake.  

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

I gotta disagree here.  The clock was our ally and the strategy worked.  Tua ended up needing to drive the field with no timeouts and got baited into a game ending mistake.  

I was really debating the merits of a field goal attempt there. You lose seven yards on the spot but could’ve put it away right there. It was a coin flip to me. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

That was the first time this season that they failed to convert w needing one yard for a first down all year....... i am fine with them doing it everytime........

didn’tthe Dolphins stop our tush push just three or four plays prior? I recall we had to run it back to back because we didn’t pick it up on third and one.

[DrDawkinstein]

9 hours ago, Simon said:

If they call that series at that point with that much fear in the playoffs, it will bite them on the bippy.

They have got to run their offense there and play for points, not start clock-watching with 6+ minutes left.

McDermott, Brady and Allen should be prepared with a plan to be aggressive with a one score lead in the 4th qrtr or I think they'll regret it.

 

That 2nd down slow Josh bootleg that went no where was maddening. Like they thought there was only 30 seconds left and they were just setting up a field goal. Except there was 3 min left and we weer no where near FG range.

 

Running is the right idea, keep the clock moving. But gotta come up with better running than that.

6 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

On the Josh fumble, O'Cyrus was left to block Wilkins by himself and whiffed on the block. Mitch Morse had nobody in front of him to block and should've help Torrence out.

 

Folks are bagging on Torrence this morning for missing a couple of assignments, but I look to Morse/Josh who should be calling out protections and making sure the rookie knows what to do on each play. Or at least start making those calls after the first time it happens. Need better communication up front there.

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

TL;DR the whole thread, maybe it's been mentioned.  But the delay of game after the miami time out was inexcusable.  We survived it but just... wow.

[SectionC3]

9 hours ago, RiotAct said:

to be fair, that “bobsled” tush-push had been pretty money for us this season (at least the latter half when we really started using it).  Miami did a pretty good job against it in the 2nd half there.

We’re gonna run it right at some point for an easy first down.  And, if we clean up Josh’s tell and run it earlier on the play clock, then it’s going to be energy more difficult to stop.   

25 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was really debating the merits of a field goal attempt there. You lose seven yards on the spot but could’ve put it away right there. It was a coin flip to me. 

I trust Josh Allen to get three feet all day long.  It didn’t work out.  That’s life.  If the FG was shorter I’d agree with you, but it was the right call to sneak it. 

[pocoboy]

9 hours ago, Simon said:

 

That's a mighty long kick on grass. 

A far lower % than going for it, imo.

 

Yeah FG is even more risky than the push.

 

I think a struggle for the Bills is that they only seemed to go to the tush push when it was a 100% crucial moment in every game, and then Allen is biasing towards the left of the line. They really needed to introduce some counters to that to keep the defense more honest.

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

What bothered me, and I’ll never understand why teams do it, is that they bunched up our entire offense in the middle of the field. Seems to me that only serves to bring the defense in as well…and it did. If you’re going to do that, seems like the better thing would be to go wide on the play with a pitch or bootleg.

I think that play is coming in the playoffs.   Think Bledsoe/McGahee.  Or Matt Brieda,  without the motion drawing a DB into place to make a tackle. 

Edited January 8 by SectionC3

[Sundo91]

I disliked the Bills final possession very much. They marched up and down the field the entire game at will. Why change anything? I understand the idea of running out the clock, but JA completed over 75% of his throws last night. Outside of the two horrible INTS, he was locked in. I love the fact that Mcdermott was more aggressive throughout the game, but once again he about cost us dearly. 

 

Either way, Great win, GO BILLS!

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Tyler Bass is hurt. I promise you all. We will find out after the season there has been something lingering with Bass. They have been way more conservative with him all year on longer kicks. There is a reason. 

 

I agree with you. You go for it on 4th down there. 

Based on what? He kicked the kickoff nearly through the uprights on his last kickoff. No signs he is hurt whatsoever.

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, Simon said:

 

That's a mighty long kick on grass. 

A far lower % than going for it, imo.

 

It's a mightly long kick for Bass

 

I do agree that McDermott went too conservative.

Edited January 8 by Beck Water

[Freak-O]

I wonder which of all you hindsight head coaches will land some of the open spots in the league for next season. Given the impressive level of hindsight shown here it must be quite a few.
 

I think the coaches trusted the defense to get a stop in case the 4th down play (to kill the game) failed, since they hadn’t allowed a single point so far in the second half. 

[ILBillsfan]

28 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

didn’tthe Dolphins stop our tush push just three or four plays prior? I recall we had to run it back to back because we didn’t pick it up on third and one.

you are correct on that drive they didn't get it on third and one then on fourth down got it so yeah i was pulling info that was broadcast.....think they could of challenged that as it looked like to me they got it but got a bad spot, and instead of challnge it they went for it

[CircleTheWagons99]

Mitch was sick still i think. 

[pocoboy]

17 minutes ago, Freak-O said:

I wonder which of all you hindsight head coaches will land some of the open spots in the league for next season. Given the impressive level of hindsight shown here it must be quite a few.
 

I think the coaches trusted the defense to get a stop in case the 4th down play (to kill the game) failed, since they hadn’t allowed a single point so far in the second half. 

 

I hear Kraft is looking for a tough guy who is good at policing the fanboards for armchair OC's.

[msw2112]

10 hours ago, Simon said:

 

The FG % is probably 60 at best.

Getting a yard with a 250lb QB is probably better than 80%.

And a 1stdown ends the game just as certainly.

It was the right call.

 

I agree that going for it was the right call.  I admit that I had some concern before the snap that they had gone to the well once too often and that the Fins defense was ready for it.  I was thinking a rollout/bootleg with Allen having the option to keep it or dump it off (perhaps to a TE) might have been the better call there.  Since it was 4th down, the clock was not a factor if there was an incomplete pass.  I think they ran the play I'm suggesting a couple of weeks ago and Allen short-armed it and Knox couldn't haul it in, so it failed, but it was wide open.  The Colts also lost their game on 4th down on a very similar except that it was a backup RB and not a TE.  I still like that call....

 

All that said, I'm OK with what they did.  The chances of Allen making were still pretty high and with a different spot from the officials, they might have had it.

[Alphadawg7]

11 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I was screaming at my TV to not run the last tush push play they tried. It was a full yard. And Miami was playing it well at that point. I actually would have been fine with them attempting the Fournette wild cat play they showed prior to the timeout. 

 

The issue wasn't the tush push...the issue was they didn't actually do the tush push.  On the previous one, they outsmarted Miami and Josh LEAPED over the pile on a would be tush push and caught them by surprise.  The mistake was going back to the same well on the next attempt on the same drive.  The moment Allen jumps, thats it, no more momentum or much of a push.  The real push is NOT coming from the guy pushing on Allens butt, its the power in Allens legs to drive forward where then the push adds more to it.  

 

When Allen is in the air on top of a pile against monster DL and LBs, their stength is MUCH greater than just some RB pushing on Josh's butt.  So the first leap was brilliant, the second one in a row when they were now expecting it and prepared for it was stupid.  They should have just done their normal tush push on the 2nd one so Allen and his legs had the potential to keep driving to get the first.  

 

Brady shouldn't have called that again and should have went back to the normal real tush push because now Miami is having to defend both the leap and the actual low push.  

 

 

[ganesh]

11 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Yeah, but we missed it anyway. At least trying the field goal is a shot at a 2 score game

Getting the 4th and 1 was more achievable than the long shot FG.  Also, if they missed the FG then they would give up another 8 yards in Field Position.  Right call wrong execution

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The issue wasn't the tush push...the issue was they didn't actually do the tush push.  On the previous one, they outsmarted Miami and Josh LEAPED over the pile on a would be tush push and caught them by surprise.  The mistake was going back to the same well on the next attempt on the same drive.  The moment Allen jumps, thats it, no more momentum or much of a push.  The real push is NOT coming from the guy pushing on Allens butt, its the power in Allens legs to drive forward where then the push adds more to it.  

 

When Allen is in the air on top of a pile against monster DL and LBs, their stength is MUCH greater than just some RB pushing on Josh's butt.  So the first leap was brilliant, the second one in a row when they were now expecting it and prepared for it was stupid.  They should have just done their normal tush push on the 2nd one so Allen and his legs had the potential to keep driving to get the first.  

 

Brady shouldn't have called that again and should have went back to the normal real tush push because now Miami is having to defend both the leap and the actual low push.  

 

 

Well said.  They should have been more creative here.

[Utah John]

11 hours ago, Simon said:

Both Guards struggled at times, Knox missed multiple blocks and we got a clearer idea of what Gabe Davis does do for this offense.

I've been saying most of the season that Davis is an offensive line player allowed to be downfield.  He's better at blocking than anything else he's asked to do.  Catching passes is just a bonus.