SoonerBillsFan Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Coldfronts said: hard to believe Josh has only 2 pro bowl seasons....ridged The NFL flat hates him for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Dawkins is somewhat surprising but nice to see. Cook deserved this. Amazing how many doubters he had right from the start. I think Taron Johnson should make it every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, DapperCam said: I think I remember from last year when Lamar Jackson inexplicably got the pro bowl over Allen, it came out that the big difference was the player portion of the vote. Basically the players hate Josh Allen’s guts and won’t vote for him. They all seem to be buddies with Lamar Jackson, so he got the nod (despite not deserving it at all). I have to imagine something similar happened this year. My conspiracy theory is he hasn’t been able to shake the reputation from the pre-draft tweets. Do you have any articles on this? I didn't see that last year CJ Stroud, even with the injury, was more deserving than Tua, Allen, and Mahomes. He had a 4 to 1 TD/INT ratio. Nobody did that this year. Edited January 4 by Mikie2times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slack_in_MA Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Throw a log on that internal fire and let it burn boys… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Happy for Dawkins, and Cook they have had very very good years People through a lot of shade, James Cook over this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, beebe said: If you throw out the goal line runs for Allen, his play this year definitely a peg below his prior years. His entire MVP candidacy has essentially been his ability to score inside the 5 yard line. Tons of bad games on the year. Which has been true across the league with QBs. Defenses definitely punched back this year in a major way. So, when a RB scores 15 TD's from inside the 3-yard line nobody says jack. In fact, it is quite impressive of them they say. But when Allen scores 15 TDs with the majority of them not inside the 3-yard line it is somehow not as impressive? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Mahomes with a lifetime achievement nomination. Thank you for playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 5 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: Do you have any articles on this? I didn't see that last year CJ Stroud, even with the injury, was more deserving than Tua, Allen, and Mahomes. He had a 4 to 1 TD/INT ratio. Nobody did that this year. INTs are a mostly useless stat. Best guess: A player with single-digit INTs likely isn't taking enough chances and is therefore playing the position suboptimally. Russell Wilson had 26 TDs and eight INTs this year. So on a per-game basis, he had slightly more TD passes than Allen, and half the INTs. His completion percentage was higher. His QB rating was better. And.....who cares. If you watch Wilson, he's ultra careful with the ball, rarely makes difficult throws, takes a ton of sacks (avoiding sacks is the superpower of actual good QBs like Mahomes and Allen) and throws the ball away a ton. He is league average at absolute best, and likely below average in his current form. But traditional stats, rather than better measures like EPA, ends up ruling the day and becomes the narratives. Too much is made of Allen's INTs (I'd guess half of them came on downfield throws that QBs like Wilson wouldn't attempt) and his rushing TDs (most of these are a result of goal line variance, where Cook gets them down to the 1 yard line and Allen plunges it in for the finisher). Obviously rushing TDs are a nice stat and all, but those extra TDs, if we're being honest, formed the basis for his entire MVP candidacy. Because all of his passing stats were down this year relative to his better seasons. And again, much of that was due to defenses dominating the league this year - a whole bunch of QBs had it rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior9 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, beebe said: If you throw out the goal line runs for Allen, his play this year definitely a peg below his prior years. His entire MVP candidacy has essentially been his ability to score inside the 5 yard line. Tons of bad games on the year. Which has been true across the league with QBs. Defenses definitely punched back this year in a major way. You really understand football at a very high level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, beebe said: INTs are a mostly useless stat. Best guess: A player with single-digit INTs likely isn't taking enough chances and is therefore playing the position suboptimally. Russell Wilson had 26 TDs and eight INTs this year. So on a per-game basis, he had slightly more TD passes than Allen, and half the INTs. His completion percentage was higher. His QB rating was better. And.....who cares. If you watch Wilson, he's ultra careful with the ball, rarely makes difficult throws, takes a ton of sacks (avoiding sacks is the superpower of actual good QBs like Mahomes and Allen) and throws the ball away a ton. He is league average at absolute best, and likely below average in his current form. But traditional stats, rather than better measures like EPA, ends up ruling the day and becomes the narratives. Too much is made of Allen's INTs (I'd guess half of them came on downfield throws that QBs like Wilson wouldn't attempt) and his rushing TDs (most of these are a result of goal line variance, where Cook gets them down to the 1 yard line and Allen plunges it in for the finisher). Obviously rushing TDs are a nice stat and all, but those extra TDs, if we're being honest, formed the basis for his entire MVP candidacy. Because all of his passing stats were down this year relative to his better seasons. And again, much of that was due to defenses dominating the league this year - a whole bunch of QBs had it rough. I was good after that line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, warrior9 said: You really understand football at a very high level. Which of Allen's games this year rank among the top 10 or 15 of his career? From October through last weekend, I would say none of them, though he did have a nice overall day vs the Eagles in a game they should have won. This was a down year by his standards outside the three September games following the Jets debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, zow2 said: This stuff all goes on post career resume. Josh get nothing. Meanwhile with 2 MVPs Lamar is probably being fitted for his gold jacket regardless of whether they win a SB or not Even more irritating is that in 2020 Allen had a superior season to Jackson the prior year when he was unanimous MVP and lost out cause Rodgers had an all-time season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 9 minutes ago, beebe said: and his rushing TDs (most of these are a result of goal line variance, where Cook gets them down to the 1 yard line and Allen plunges it in for the finisher). Except, I would wager that a lot of the times Allen is the one getting the tough yards down inside the 5-yard line as well. Either by using his legs or making the throws to the receivers to get the ball down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: I was good after that line. Interceptions leaders by year. 2023: Howell, Allen, Mahomes, Hurts, Goff. 2022: Prescott, Mills, Cousins, Carr, Allen. 2021: Stafford, Lawrence, Heinecke, Allen, Herbert. Fewest interceptions by year (min 12 games): 2023: Zack Wilson, Herbert, Lamar, Prescott, Carr/Wilson 2022: Daniel Jones, Hurts, Brissett, Tannehill, Lamar 2021: Rodgers, Taysom Hill, Russell Wilson, Wentz, Cousins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Yay! pro bowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninja Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, UKBillFan said: Score the most number of TDs as a QB… be an alternate. The turnover storyline has really done a number on Josh. Bet Mahomes has still made it, despite his count not being that much lower. Jackson is obvious. Who’s the third? Tua? It's a popularity contest, plain and simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Stare Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) Glorified popularity contest. Even with that said, as many others have said, it’s a damn shame that Josh and Ed aren’t voted to the roster. Ed should be an all-pro this year. As a team, you could argue we’ve had a mild year, but Josh is crushing the league in TDs. ***** like this really starts to piss me off. Mahomes will have 2 MVPs and 2 superbowl MVPs on his resume while Lamar is likely to have 2 MVPs on his resume. Not saying they haven’t earned that recognition (though I’d argue CMC should be MVP in a QB down year this year over Lamar), but people not appreciating Josh year after year is getting flat out old. All because of some pre-draft bias about his ability to make the jump. The guy is true rags to riches. Zero star recruit with no D1 offers out of HS. He goes out there and shuts up all the doubters…the true American underdog story that everyone typically eats up, and people still can’t let it go. Continue to ***** on him. It’s exhausting for me, so I can’t even imagine what that has been like for him. Yes, he can sit on his big pile of cash at the end of the day, but that nonsense has to get to you as a human being eventually. Edited January 4 by Blank Stare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Of the entire team lol what a joke. We have some monsters on defense. Please just take fan votes away from the pro bowl and let maybe the players and coaches vote or something. I mean also put it after the Super Bowl, back in Hawaii and make it tackle again but that’s a whole other thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Absolutely insane Ed Oliver is not in the Pro Bowl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I can’t believe Allen didn’t get in over Tua. I’m not shocked by Mahomes being in, he is an easily recognized name that everyone votes for. The amount of snubs at WR was also amazing! The only snub for my team would be Baremore. That man is a beast and IMO the best at his position in the AFC. 1 hour ago, beebe said: INTs are a mostly useless stat. Best guess: A player with single-digit INTs likely isn't taking enough chances and is therefore playing the position suboptimally. Russell Wilson had 26 TDs and eight INTs this year. So on a per-game basis, he had slightly more TD passes than Allen, and half the INTs. His completion percentage was higher. His QB rating was better. And.....who cares. If you watch Wilson, he's ultra careful with the ball, rarely makes difficult throws, takes a ton of sacks (avoiding sacks is the superpower of actual good QBs like Mahomes and Allen) and throws the ball away a ton. He is league average at absolute best, and likely below average in his current form. But traditional stats, rather than better measures like EPA, ends up ruling the day and becomes the narratives. Too much is made of Allen's INTs (I'd guess half of them came on downfield throws that QBs like Wilson wouldn't attempt) and his rushing TDs (most of these are a result of goal line variance, where Cook gets them down to the 1 yard line and Allen plunges it in for the finisher). Obviously rushing TDs are a nice stat and all, but those extra TDs, if we're being honest, formed the basis for his entire MVP candidacy. Because all of his passing stats were down this year relative to his better seasons. And again, much of that was due to defenses dominating the league this year - a whole bunch of QBs had it rough. Stroud played amazing this year and was even in MVP talks before he got that nasty concussion from a late hit. Let’s not forget the talent he has around him and the lack of experience as wel compared to Allen and Mahomes… and For dang sure Tua.. imagine the numbers Stroud put up with Hill and Waddle to throw to? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Rasul and TB43 not getting at least 5th alternate is a travesty. Even Poyer was good enough to be a late alternate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, VW82 said: Dawkins is somewhat surprising but nice to see. Cook deserved this. Amazing how many doubters he had right from the start. I think Taron Johnson should make it every year. Dawkins has been killing it this year. He is probably the most deserving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Perceived Pro bowl snubs might help the cause… I like it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 hours ago, beebe said: If you throw out the goal line runs for Allen, his play this year definitely a peg below his prior years. Dude that's crazy. If you remove all the plays Mahomes made with his right arm he's the worst player in NFL history. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, beebe said: Interceptions leaders by year. 2023: Howell, Allen, Mahomes, Hurts, Goff. 2022: Prescott, Mills, Cousins, Carr, Allen. 2021: Stafford, Lawrence, Heinecke, Allen, Herbert. Fewest interceptions by year (min 12 games): 2023: Zack Wilson, Herbert, Lamar, Prescott, Carr/Wilson 2022: Daniel Jones, Hurts, Brissett, Tannehill, Lamar 2021: Rodgers, Taysom Hill, Russell Wilson, Wentz, Cousins If your point is to say INT's void of anything else don't matter, well, you're still wrong, but it matters less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 hours ago, beebe said: If you throw out the goal line runs for Allen, his play this year definitely a peg below his prior years. His entire MVP candidacy has essentially been his ability to score inside the 5 yard line. Tons of bad games on the year. Which has been true across the league with QBs. Defenses definitely punched back this year in a major way. If we took away the 10 underhand pitches Mahomes tossed to a RB from inside the 5yd line that led to TD’s every season he wouldn’t have as many passing TD’s. Heck, we should also take away the 100 screen passes Mahomes and Chiefs run every season. COME ON PEOPLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, VW82 said: Dawkins is somewhat surprising but nice to see. Cook deserved this. Amazing how many doubters he had right from the start. I think Taron Johnson should make it every year. Taron Johnson is 1 uncalled PI from costing the Bills 3 games on the same route this year, so I’ll say no to him this year. Ed O had a breakout year, but even so, it’s not like he jumped off the screen at people, nor got a lot of attention from the broadcasters so it’s no surprise he didn’t get the vote. Allen.. well, by the standards he set, he didn’t have a great year. He scored a lot, but you can’t ignore the fact the Bills are in a do or die situation because of him being flat out awful against teams he’s expected to beat. He hasn’t even been great in the do or die games. I’m not shocked he didn’t get the nod. Lamar is the leader of the best team in the AFC and he’s spectacular on highlights, votes are going to go there. People love Tua for some reason. Mahomes has actually played pretty well up until the last 3 weeks, I don’t know what you can do when your receivers can’t catch a cold. At the end of it all, it’s a popularity contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 pro bowlers is hilarious. Fire Beane! 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 hours ago, DapperCam said: I think I remember from last year when Lamar Jackson inexplicably got the pro bowl over Allen, it came out that the big difference was the player portion of the vote. Basically the players hate Josh Allen’s guts and won’t vote for him. They all seem to be buddies with Lamar Jackson, so he got the nod (despite not deserving it at all). I have to imagine something similar happened this year. My conspiracy theory is he hasn’t been able to shake the reputation from the pre-draft tweets. https://youtube.com/shorts/ckqqh9BbZPs?si=IQnp9jWl-p4TgwPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 8 hours ago, UKBillFan said: Score the most number of TDs as a QB… be an alternate. The turnover storyline has really done a number on Josh. Bet Mahomes has still made it, despite his count not being that much lower. Jackson is obvious. Who’s the third? Tua? Josh has simply had too many ineffective games. Sorry, but face it. He's been too inconsistent. I'm less concerned about the interception total because only some of them were his fault, and only some of them hurt. I'm more concerned about drives that fail or don't get started at all because he misses an open receiver with a bad pass or doesn't see the open guy at all. He's just been off for at least five games, including the last two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just our luck. In a year when the offense actually stays healthy, two crucial players just decide to become professional bowlers right before the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Pro Bowl is stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) Wow, no Ed Oliver who's dominat, Bernard who made history, Rasul Douglas, Mitch Morse , of course Josh F it , they'll be preparing for a SB anyway Edited January 4 by JerseyBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: How in the blue hell is Ed Oliver a THIRD alternate? That's insane. Ed says "f*** you, from me and the horse I rode in on!" * 😁 Not directed at you, BillsFanForever19. Directed at the selection committee and process. Edited January 4 by Ridgewaycynic2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, Utah John said: Josh has simply had too many ineffective games. Sorry, but face it. He's been too inconsistent. I'm less concerned about the interception total because only some of them were his fault, and only some of them hurt. I'm more concerned about drives that fail or don't get started at all because he misses an open receiver with a bad pass or doesn't see the open guy at all. He's just been off for at least five games, including the last two. 42 TDs. 14 more than his nearest AFC rival. Yes, he's been inconsistent but what does that say for the rest? ETA - 13. I was looking at Tua rather than Russell Wilson. Edited January 4 by UKBillFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) Many questionable adds this year. How do both Dolphins tackles make it? It would be extremely embarrassing if Josh wins the MVP and doesn't even make the pro bowl Edited January 4 by Billzgobowlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaenon Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 No Douglas or Bernard Hmm ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Josh beat Mahomes in KC!!! Two teams have the same record. Once crowned, tough to topple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cisco2403 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 8 hours ago, DCofNC said: Taron Johnson is 1 uncalled PI from costing the Bills 3 games on the same route this year, so I’ll say no to him this year. Ed O had a breakout year, but even so, it’s not like he jumped off the screen at people, nor got a lot of attention from the broadcasters so it’s no surprise he didn’t get the vote. Allen.. well, by the standards he set, he didn’t have a great year. He scored a lot, but you can’t ignore the fact the Bills are in a do or die situation because of him being flat out awful against teams he’s expected to beat. He hasn’t even been great in the do or die games. I’m not shocked he didn’t get the nod. Lamar is the leader of the best team in the AFC and he’s spectacular on highlights, votes are going to go there. People love Tua for some reason. Mahomes has actually played pretty well up until the last 3 weeks, I don’t know what you can do when your receivers can’t catch a cold. At the end of it all, it’s a popularity contest. The bolded is exactly why Allen doesn't get the same treatment as Mahomes. Even some Bills fans are clouded by this. If Mahomes has actually played pretty well this year outside of the last 3 weeks and Allen has been awful, then why does Allen have a higher QBR and more total touchdowns (same passing and higher rushing TDs)? Also, lets not act like the Bills receivers don't drop a ton of passes for Allen either. Allen is apparently held to a higher standard than Mahomes even though those that do this view Mahomes as better than Allen. Edited January 4 by cisco2403 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 12 hours ago, Coldfronts said: hard to believe Josh has only 2 pro bowl seasons....ridged And probably in part why he doesn't get more nominations despite being one of the most popular QB's in the league when he turned down going to the pro bowl those 2 times probably didn't help his being chosen to go . To do what he has done and not be chosen more or be a MVP candidate in any of the past 4 or 5 years is kind of crazy the guy has done some historically changing things in the league but even if you do win more than others i guess some times that doesn't matter . Only to the Bills Mafia . GO BILLS !!! Oh & congrats to those that did make it !! Edited January 4 by T master 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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