DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[HoofHearted]

Those of you expecting a wildly different offense in terms of scheme are going to be disappointed. He's going to run the exact same scheme Dorsey was running - you can't just scrap everything and teach a new system mid-year. This move had to be made though before McDermott lost the entire locker room. Despite what the players say post-game/during the week there has been no confidence in what we are doing for a couple weeks now. Stef looked unamused and unengaged throughout the night last night. I'll wait for the A22 to drop before making any comments about the game plan/scheme, but there were multiple times again last night that Josh looked to the opposite side of the field than what I thought he should. Picking man match-ups is one thing, but vs zone play the concept side - thought this was an Allen mistake thing, but I do wonder if this move means it was being coached that way... All in all though - the players didn't play hard for their OC and the same issues that have been occurring over the past however many weeks showed up yet again. Hopefully a different voice in the room ignites these players going forward.

[boyst]

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

Question for Bills Fans: Who do you think was the most responsible for Firing Dorsey?

 

A) Mr. Pegula

B) Beane

C) McDermott

 

I am of the very strong opinion that Mr. Pegula gave the power to McDermott to make moves like this, AND gave him final say wrt the draft. I also think that he was the one to fire Frazier. 

 

Jmo but curious as to what others think.

Pegs running this like a business and extending leashes to let people hang themselves - that tracks.

 

(I don't know much or have much to get inside the FO)

[Gregg]

33 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Is this a joke? The dude is unhinged.

 

It's 12:50 PM on Tuesday afternoon and the Cowboys just scored another touchdown.

[Not at the table Karlos]

23 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Part of me wonders is the issue with Diggs was that he decided to speak to someone like Beane or even Pegula about McDermott on behalf of some of the players but Josh didn't back him up.

 

That might explain his reaction after "meetings" this offseason. 

 

Sadly, because of what happened with Josh McDaniels I doubt McDermott would hold a "airing of grievances" meeting at this point. LOL 

Lmfao. I’m picturing Diggs standing over a table. “I’ve got a lot of problems with you people, now you’re gonna hear about it”

[Peter]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

He didn't talk about anything else but everyone else. A lot of "we's".

 

Leaders accept all responsibility, solely. He needs to say "I" when it's bad, we when it's good.  He doesn't. He's a chump clown

 

Indeed.

 

I remember a certain diminutive QB who had the habit of saying "I" when we won and "we" when we lost.

[Billz4ever]

This should hopefully improve the play calling, but unless McD is ready to take the leash off of Josh, I don't see much changing.

 

The contrast from this year's Josh to the last few seasons is clearly evident.  I believe how he's being coached has him second guessing himself and is causing poor decisions.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

McD called an equally horrid game on defense. 

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

Those of you expecting a wildly different offense in terms of scheme are going to be disappointed. He's going to run the exact same scheme Dorsey was running - you can't just scrap everything and teach a new system mid-year. This move had to be made though before McDermott lost the entire locker room. Despite what the players say post-game/during the week there has been no confidence in what we are doing for a couple weeks now. Stef looked unamused and unengaged throughout the night last night. I'll wait for the A22 to drop before making any comments about the game plan/scheme, but there were multiple times again last night that Josh looked to the opposite side of the field than what I thought he should. Picking man match-ups is one thing, but vs zone play the concept side - thought this was an Allen mistake thing, but I do wonder if this move means it was being coached that way... All in all though - the players didn't play hard for their OC and the same issues that have been occurring over the past however many weeks showed up yet again. Hopefully a different voice in the room ignites these players going forward.

The playcalling decisions were just as questionable as the scheme, maybe more so.  It felt like Dorsey was picking them at random instead of trying to establish a gameflow. 

[Chandler#81]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

It's the right move.

 

The biggest difference w/ this team is that we're simply not scoring points like we used to.  And we have a better line, running game & have added Kincaid.

 

Beyond that, Allen is regressing.  Someone needs to help him realize his potential. Dorsey had his shot.

 

Britney?😳

[Livinginthepast]

22 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

It's going to sound harsh, but Josh cost Dorsey his job. 

 

Dorsey has had plenty of issues, but he didn't make Josh & Co. turn the ball over so many times... It got to the point where fans were saying Josh was throwing the game.

 

Dorsey's gameplan was actually solid last night. Execution sunk it. Receivers dropping passes, poor decision making, fumbles on top of INTs... all soured huge improvements to the run game & overall balanced approach.

Actually I think its both. Josh was terrible last night with the INTS, bad throws and fumbles. His supporting cast was also mediocre to poor. But Dorsey is responsible for scheming guys open, misdirection and the right play call for the situation. That part of his work seems to have completely disappeared or has been inept. Last night was yet another example of the broken system that Dorsey created.

 

There are multiple issues on this Bills team and we just got rid of one of them. There are at least 6 more that I can think of to be tackled:

 

1. McD and his poor game management

2. McD and his poor defensive game plan

3. McD and his lack of preparation and motivation for the team for the big games

4. The terrible special teams

5. Getting decent replacements for the injured players (Beane!!)

5. The invisible Von Miller

 

The first 3 are glaring. I think McD should be promoting a defensive assistant to be DC ASAP for in game defensive calls. The rest are hard to fix in the short term.

[What a Tuel]

29 minutes ago, Seventeen said:

 

Can we fire John Butler to not teaching our corners to turn around and find the ball ? 

 

I'll never understand that. Half the time its an INT if they just turn around! So worried about getting beat they get PI anyway so just turn around!

[hondo in seattle]

3 minutes ago, Success said:

It's the right move.

 

The biggest difference w/ this team is that we're simply not scoring points like we used to.  And we have a better line, running game & have added Kincaid.

 

Beyond that, Allen is regressing.  Someone needs to help him realize his potential. Dorsey had his shot.

 

 

Agreed.  Allen is a unicorn with a unique and impressive skill set.  But he also has flaws.  We need a QB-whisperer OC who can figure out how to maximize the talents while working around or minimizing the shortcomings.   Dorsey hasn't been that guy.  

[Bob Jones]

Not sure if this has been asked in here yet, but I don’t have the time to go through 26 pages.
 

How much “new stuff” can Brady even bring in in the middle of the season? Don’t they pretty much have to stick with the playbook they have, and *maybe* add a few wrinkles to that? Can the offensive players learn new stuff in weeks?

[BullBuchanan]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You understand how insane it is to pretend his first 2 seasons he was set up to succeed?  Kelvin Benjamin was his #1 WR when he was drafted.  We had no talent on this roster and Allen came from a small school and was totally raw.  

 

People like you like to lump in his career totals so you can use those early years to mask the last 3 years where he was an MVP finalist all 3.  Its insane.  

 

News flash:  Coming into 2023, Allen only had 4 more INTs than Mahomes and 3 more than Burrow over the past 2 regular seasons.  And Mahomes had more talent around him and a much better OL along with Andy Reid.  Burrow had an elite cast of weapons.  And Allen played half of one of those seasons with an injured throwing elbow.  

 

Bonus news flash:  Josh has 10 more (which is DOUBLE) the amount of TD's than Burrow and a lower turnover rate than Burrow in the post season despite only playing 1 more game than him.  

 

Allen is not the problem. 

You do know that his combined stats over his first two seasons aren't his worst two years right? He's been consistently poor at this the whole time

Why would you say this when there are objective stats that will blow up your argument instantly?

Allen is not the sole problem, but he's a massive part of it. He's a wild animal of a player that needs to be effectively controlled and released when needed if he's going to find any sustained success in this league and we don't have a coaching staff capable of doing that.
 

[What a Tuel]

33 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Is it your belief that Dorsey was fired ONLY because of last night's game?

 

No, but last night was 100000% on the players not executing, so id like to know what broke the camel's back here? Why wasn't he fired after the bengals game?

Edited November 14, 2023 by What a Tuel

[clayboy54]

Just now, Chandler#81 said:

Britney?😳

Fame and fortune have ruined more than a few careers. I hope it's not the case here, but I fear it is.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Fired him after the one game Dorsey wasn’t the problem?   
 

This should be a fun offseason

We have no “true” DC or OC. This in itself is a fun little game.

[crappyjazz]

7 minutes ago, Governor said:

My gf said that it looks like the team doesn’t practice during the week. She knows nothing about football. This team comes out prepared maybe twice a season. Last year was no different. We were the worst 13-3 team in history and everyone knows it. I haven’t seen a complete game from these clowns since last years Rams game.

 

That is entirely on McD. 

But but but he said they had great practices this week! 🤧

[cgg716]

Dorsey being fired is actually worst case scenario. But here we are. Hes 

gonna promote Joe Brady, tell him to do whatever he needs to in order save his job. Which he likely can with even small improvement. You'll see Allen run etc. But come the off-season he'll get neutered too

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, Bob Jones said:

Not sure if this has been asked in here yet, but I don’t have the time to go through 26 pages.
 

How much “new stuff” can Brady even bring in in the middle of the season? Don’t they pretty much have to stick with the playbook they have, and *maybe* add a few wrinkles to that? Can the offensive players learn new stuff in weeks?

Not much, he’s going to be running Dorsey’s offense. What he can do is change up the type of plays and when they are called. 

[Mango]

Curious what this offense looks like under Brady? The Sean Payton and LSU/Burrow connections are intriguing. 

Maybe we go on a tear. Josh throws 30 TD's and no INT's the rest of the season. Maybe Dorian Williams is the next Ray Lewis!

LFG!

[Allen2Moulds]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You understand how insane it is to pretend his first 2 seasons he was set up to succeed?  Kelvin Benjamin was his #1 WR when he was drafted.  We had no talent on this roster and Allen came from a small school and was totally raw.  

 

People like you like to lump in his career totals so you can use those early years to mask the last 3 years where he was an MVP finalist all 3.  Its insane.  

 

News flash:  Coming into 2023, Allen only had 4 more INTs than Mahomes and 3 more than Burrow over the past 2 regular seasons.  And Mahomes had more talent around him and a much better OL along with Andy Reid.  Burrow had an elite cast of weapons.  And Allen played half of one of those seasons with an injured throwing elbow.  

 

Bonus news flash:  Josh has 10 more (which is DOUBLE) the amount of TD's than Burrow and a lower turnover rate than Burrow in the post season despite only playing 1 more game than him.  

 

Allen is not the problem. 

Thank you for always being the voice of reason. 

 

I've been calling for Brady to replace him for a bit now. When we hired Brady, I thought it was for this same reason. 

 

That being said, what are your expectations for these next 7 games?

[appoo]

10 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

genuinely asking..... ive seen here a bunch that beane cant fire mcd. does he have authority to fire dorsey? or did he rather? confusing power structure

even if we think mcd did it, did beane have power to do it outside of recommending or insisting?

we’ve all been following the Beane and McDermott relationship right? It actually feels like one of the best in the NFL. Beane’s primary job is to get players needed to fulfill a vision of winning a Super Bowl based on certain base concepts of what you want your defense and offense to look like.

 

McDermotts job is to execute that vision with the players he’s provided by specifically setting schemes on both sides of the ball, while filling out his coaching staff to help him get there.

 

The reality is these two men influence each other greatly and I doubt much big picture stuff happens without them collaborating. While Beane will have final say on player personnel and contracts, and McDermott has final say on his coaches and how he uses those players, this isn’t done in a vacuum.

 

With Dorse, that’s McDermotts decision, but I gotta imagine he talked it over with Beane before making a final choice.

 

But all in all this seems like a really great relationship and one isn’t gonna disrespect the other in terms of overstepping responsibilities in a vacuum

Edited November 14, 2023 by appoo

[Pirate Angel]

Can we see less of Gave Davis too

[crappyjazz]

I want to understand how elevating the QB coach who was you know, coaching Josh, to OC will help? Obviously he hasn't been doing a good job with Josh.

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

The playcalling decisions were just as questionable as the scheme, maybe more so.  It felt like Dorsey was picking them at random instead of trying to establish a gameflow. 

I dunno - we left a lot of meat on the bone. I'll have to see the A22 first. Bottom line is poor execution in on the players until the same things that are being poorly executed become habit - that's on coaching.

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

It is interesting you include total TD for Allen but then only rely on INT's without including fumbles. turnovers This is Allens 5th year averaging over a turn over per game or more. This is Mahomes 2nd and Burrow has only done it once. Both Mahomes and Burrow have been at 1.0 but never over.

 

I think there is room for a lot of things to be true at the same time. 

We need better WR's.
We need better coaching.
Allen needs to do better at taking care of the football in the air and on the ground. 

 

 

No, the playoff numbers are TOTAL turnovers because Allen has 0 playoff fumbles.  Allen has 20 TD's to 4 total turnovers in 8 playoff games...literally double the TD-TO ratio of Burrow who only has 10 TD's with 4 Turnovers.  

 

I mentioned INT's in the regular season because that is all anyone is talking about with Allen right now, interceptions.  Yes he had some fumbles which makes his turnovers stats higher, but he was also being run like a FB for several years.  

 

No one is saying Allen doesn't need to be better at taking care of the ball, the point is the two guys commonly rated above him in Mahomes and Burrow have had a lot more to work with and only thrown a few less INT's than Allen in the regular season coming into this year.  And Allen had a lot more working against him those 2 years too with an OC change, injury to his throwing arm, bad weather at home, and less talent to work with.  

 

And come playoff time, turnovers are NOT the reason the Bills have been eliminated from the playoffs...not once has it been because of an Allen turnover.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

If you win the coin toss plz differ you McDumbass

[Heitz]

1 minute ago, crappyjazz said:

I want to understand how elevating the QB coach who was you know, coaching Josh, to OC will help? Obviously he hasn't been doing a good job with Josh.

 

They're not the same job..?  

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You do know that his combined stats over his first two seasons aren't his worst two years right? He's been consistently poor at this the whole time

Why would you say this when there are objective stats that will blow up your argument instantly?

Allen is not the sole problem, but he's a massive part of it. He's a wild animal of a player that needs to be effectively controlled and released when needed if he's going to find any sustained success in this league and we don't have a coaching staff capable of doing that.
 

 

Again, he only has like 4 more INT's than Mahomes and 3 more than Burrow during the past 2 seasons coming into this year. And he has never cost us a single playoff game from a turnover with only 4 career turnovers.

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Freak-O]

This is what we all have wanted for quite some time now. Or at least most of us. Now let’s go on a tear an win out! 

[BRH]

7 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Indeed.

 

I remember a certain diminutive QB who had the habit of saying "I" when we won and "we" when we lost.

 

YES!  

 

It took a while that first year to realize it, but Flutie did it ALL the time.  "I" threw a touchdown.  "We" fumbled.  He couldn't help himself.

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Interesting.

 

McDermott feeling the heat.

100%
 

Two years ago the special teams coordinator was the scapegoat.

 

Last year, Leslie.

 

This year, Dorsey.

 

McDermott put this staff together. He should be next.

[nedboy7]

This is the logical step.  McD can be canned after the season if needed.  Not realistic to fire the OC, DC and HC in one day.  That would be so dumb. 

[DuckyBoys]

I doubt we will see new stuff but the playbook is more than what Dorsey was running  They can come in with a vision to try and run the ball, run some misdirection, move the pocket, more motion   Dorsey was stuck in one gear  What is sad is when they finally ran into the light box Denver showed all night they have great success but too little too late  Maybe Josh Allen's demeanor looks better and we can assume he and Dorsey were not on the same page  

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

If buffalo wants any chance at salvaging this season, they need Allen to be probably their best player.  This is an attempt to try and get that out of him.

That is the best response I have read in this thread.  Everyone is happy that Dorsey was canned.

 

But he was not making the throws.  Josh Allen is.  And he looks lost and indifferent about the entire mess.  That throw to the sideline at the end of the 1st half was ridiculously bad that was picked.  He missed Shakir who was wide open on 4th and 2.  He threw the same bad throw to Gabe on the sideline in the 2nd half.  And he should have been picked on the second or third series of the game if Singleton gets his foot down.  This is not the Josh Allen of the past 4 seasons.  The guy looks like a robot.  The big boy needs to get it together.  I don't see Mahomes or Burrow or a lot of supposed other real good NFL QB's playing like that for extended periods of time.  

Some new blood leading the offense is fine.  But the overall pale over the team is on McDermott.  Something happened on that London trip that really has sunk the offense.  We looked awful in the 1st half after playing a great game against Miami.  It has been a mess ever since.  McDermott should be coaching for his life at this point.  This week against the Jets will not be easy for our offense.  Their defense is nasty.  We need to come out playing with some bad intentions.  Because it will be a street fight.  And if we don't it will not end pretty for us.

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

I dunno - we left a lot of meat on the bone.

I'm not going to pretend that the players aren't without some blame here, but to me it's tiny in comparison to the coaching staff.  

A not insignificant amount of Dorsey's playcalls never worked, and he kept hammering those same calls every game!  He was incapable of self-evaluating and saying "well this play hasn't worked for the guys on the field".  Maybe the plays are awesome for a different set of players or a different QB, I don't know, but I do know that Josh has had similar interceptions for the past few games in a row and Dorsey would stubbornly go right back to them. It's beyond frustrating. 

 

Allen's "I'm executing the plays as called" is very telling. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, nedboy7 said:

This is the logical step.  McD can be canned after the season if needed.  Not realistic to fire the OC, DC and HC in one day.  That would be so dumb. 

 

My thought last night, IF I was Terry and was going to fire McD, I'd make Shula interim HC, Brady interim OC, and Bobby Babich interim DC, and see how it goes.

 

I'll take the Dorsey firing for now. Writing is on the wall for McD.

[davefan66]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Those of you expecting a wildly different offense in terms of scheme are going to be disappointed. He's going to run the exact same scheme Dorsey was running - you can't just scrap no confidence in what we are doing for a couple weeks now. Stef looked unamused and unengaged throughout the night last night.

That is exactly right.

 

No way to change the offense this late in the season. What needs to change is when to call certain plays. Run when you should run and the team is killing it like last night.  
 

Let Josh run.
 

Involve Diggs.  It was late in the game and they showed the huddle from behind.  Diggs came in late and left early (not by much), but his demeanor and look in his face was he was disinterested.  Sure enough, play was not to him.

 

Oh, and.  Let Josh run.  
 

Playbook is the playbook.  Play caller builds the game plan and calls plays to  his players strengths.  Certainly not what Dorsey was doing.

[34-30]

Has anyone considered that perhaps this is just who Allen IS and that coaching has hidden it up to this point?