Say you're Brandon Beane: what do you do with these three contracts?

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Von Miller

Tre White

Dawson Knox

 

In my eyes, you can do one of three things:

 

1) Ride them out, be mediocre because you don't have any cap space to work with, pray to God you get some kind of production out of them

2) Burn them all after this season, eat the same cap ***** sandwich and emerge in a much healthier place in 2025

3) Cut two of three of them, triage-style, still eat the cap ***** sandwich and be better off in 2025

 

Are there any other options out there? I'm happy to hear them.

 

Best to eat the dead cap and cut them all....start over with an entire new staff and have a down year next year while the new staff further feels the needs of the team out..2025 we will be mostly out of cap hell and should have a top 10 pick for the new regime to build the team AROUND ALLEN with...Give allen a chance for the 2nd half of his career

[US Egg]

17 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

While it isnt the best possible value, looking at the entire list of TE contracts shows that Knox is pretty accurately paid.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/tight-end/limit-100/

 

The guys ahead of him are all much better. And the 4-5 guys right after him are making about as much but aren't nearly as good.

 

Hardly our worst contract.

Yeah, there's alot of well paid mediocrity at the position. Knox fits in with them. 

[McBean]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Von Miller

Tre White

Dawson Knox

 

In my eyes, you can do one of three things:

 

1) Ride them out, be mediocre because you don't have any cap space to work with, pray to God you get some kind of production out of them

2) Burn them all after this season, eat the same cap ***** sandwich and emerge in a much healthier place in 2025

3) Cut two of three of them, triage-style, still eat the cap ***** sandwich and be better off in 2025

 

Are there any other options out there? I'm happy to hear them.

 

Get rid of all 3.

 

Clean house. Full sweep.

 

If you’re going to keep mclappy then trade Allen and Diggs as well. Let’s go for the full on tank baby.

[Rc2catch]

I expect they give it one more go next year. Then I think the core of the team will change drastically 

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

Douglas could be an indication they may move on from White.

Bank on it

[TheyCallMeAndy]

37 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

High middle is still way too high for a blocking TE.  This team needs to keep Kincaid and find a way to get out of the Knox contract.  We perform better in the hurry up 11P anyways.  Tre & Knox need to go. We're stuck with Von's 3rd year.

A blocking TE? 🤦🏻

 

Knox had 97 catches, over 1100 yards, 15 TDs, and caught over 72% of his targets over 2021 and 2022.

 
I’m sorry he strained his quad and broke his wrist in 2023. 🤦🏻

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Von Miller

Tre White

Dawson Knox

 

In my eyes, you can do one of three things:

 

1) Ride them out, be mediocre because you don't have any cap space to work with, pray to God you get some kind of production out of them

2) Burn them all after this season, eat the same cap ***** sandwich and emerge in a much healthier place in 2025

3) Cut two of three of them, triage-style, still eat the cap ***** sandwich and be better off in 2025

 

Are there any other options out there? I'm happy to hear them.

 

 

That's his problem.  He created the mess, let him correct it.  Let's see what he can do to earn those multi-millions that Pegula pays him. 

 

Option 4, whose ship has sailed, is not to put yourself in a position to have to make such risky "win now" decisions, in the case of Von Miller, and in the case of Knox, if they had a plan, then again, it's far from evident with the overlaying of Knox with Kincaid.  That whole "12 personnel" thing also seems to have been poorly thought out.  I'd choose that option, Option 4.  That's since dropped off as stated.  

 

What I don't do is excuse the ridiculous nature of them besides White.  

 

Von Miller was a high-risk/high-reward contract, with known risks getting it.  Not least of all for a well past-prime player, and regardless of how good he was five seasons prior.  

 

Knox, ... LOL, I mean WTF.  They throw that kind of money at him and then work him out of the offense.  It might be capable of being dismissed if we hadn't done the same with Hines for example.  But then draft over him in the 1st round?  

 

It makes one wonder if McBeane are constantly shooting from the hip rather than attempting to implement some kind of plan based upon a well thought our and well reasoned out approach.  Many of us do not see such a plan or any evidence that one ever even existed.  ... oh wait, completely forgot about the completely undefined "Process."  I guess we're still in "Trust the Process" mode.  Like a broken watch, apparently it'll come through for us once over 20 seasons as long as we keep McD on and remain patient.  He'll figure things out after a while.  Things that other coaches figure out in a season or two.  Maybe the 8th time will be the charm next season.  LOL  

 

 

[Gregthekeg]

What happens if Von Miller retires? He talks about his legacy with the game and his pride in doing everything to help his team he can. If he sees that he is a shell of what he was, and it is hurting the team, and that is all everyone talks about this offseason, is there a chance he retires? 

 

If he does retire, how does that impact the cap? 

 

[dpberr]

21 minutes ago, Billl said:

He gets paid either way, though.  If his playing days are effectively over, why in the world would he want to take one dime less that’s he’s currently guaranteed?

 

I agree - the only leverage the Bills have (which I would use) is telling him he's no longer a starter on the Bills, and he'll be in spot duty, backing up younger players.  

 

I don't think he'd like that, and as a result, cut a deal to get out of Buffalo.  It's not the cleanest, honest way to do business.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, dpberr said:

 

 

I don't think he'd like that, and as a result, cut a deal to get out of Buffalo.  It's not the cleanest, honest way to do business.  

Don't care. They need to figure out a way to make that happen, he's dead weight at this point

 

[bouds]

Poyer/Hyde/White are probably all gone next year.  Knox gone after next season along with Von. Davis is out as well.  Mitch Morse may be gone.  Roster will look way different next year.

[RiotAct]

Geez, at this rate I’ll learn that we’re stuck with Von for the next decade before we can realistically cut him.  Lol

[Ga boy]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

We're stuck with Von and Knox, for better or worse.

 

Tre White, pay reduction or cut.

 

Take a machete to the rest of the defense and let Gabe Davis walk.  

It will be tough to let GD walk if he’s the SB MVP 😂

[LabattBlue]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Von Miller

Tre White

Dawson Knox

 

In my eyes, you can do one of three things:

 

1) Ride them out, be mediocre because you don't have any cap space to work with, pray to God you get some kind of production out of them

2) Burn them all after this season, eat the same cap ***** sandwich and emerge in a much healthier place in 2025

3) Cut two of three of them, triage-style, still eat the cap ***** sandwich and be better off in 2025

 

Are there any other options out there? I'm happy to hear them.

 

I’d be glad to take the dead cap hit next year for Miller.  Cut White, and I am 50/50 on Knox.  2024 maybe a reset year, unless they kick Dorsey to the curb, and just try and outscore everyone. 

[FilthyBeast]

Moving on from White is a no brainer even if he wants to attempt to recover and play again it's not going to be with this team.

 

Miller you are probably stuck with unless he is will to restructure to essentially get paid to enable his release.

 

Knox I think you try to trade if you are fine getting a late round pick and a willing partner will take on that contract in return.

[mrags]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Von Miller

Tre White

Dawson Knox

 

In my eyes, you can do one of three things:

 

1) Ride them out, be mediocre because you don't have any cap space to work with, pray to God you get some kind of production out of them

2) Burn them all after this season, eat the same cap ***** sandwich and emerge in a much healthier place in 2025

3) Cut two of three of them, triage-style, still eat the cap ***** sandwich and be better off in 2025

 

Are there any other options out there? I'm happy to hear them.

 

Tell white he needs to restructure and take a pay cut or he is gone. 
 

do the same thing with knox

 

Unfortunately asking Von to do the same likely isn’t going to happen in a million years. But ask him to restructure in a way that gives us some cap relief. If not, eat the cesp sandwhich for 2 more years. Maybe sign Epenesa or Floyd to a long term deal and just let them start and have Miller on the bench. That should piss him off enough to ask for a trade and at that point you tell him that with his contract what it is, he’s untradable. If he still doesn’t help out, let him sit on the bench unless someone gets hurt. 
 

all this means nothing if we have McDermott. Because if he’s here he will continue with his 19 man rotation at DL and Von will get his snaps 

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Moving on from White is a no brainer even if he wants to attempt to recover and play again it's not going to be with this team.

 

Miller you are probably stuck with unless he is will to restructure to essentially get paid to enable his release.

 

Knox I think you try to trade if you are fine getting a late round pick and a willing partner will take on that contract in return.

These contract decisions and cap issues are going to require Beane to hit on the draft in 2024.  Get that WR we lack, find a run stuffer DT, and identify a RT replacement for Brown to name a few needs.  Add in 2 new safeties and McDermott is going to be forced to do something he's not done which is start younger players out of necessity.  No money will be available for any big name free agents.  Its going to younger drafted and undrafted players and a few veterans at the end of their careers for the minimum to fill out the roster.  But when you have your QB its a reload not a rebuild.   Get younger, faster, bigger, and let go of the process, because the process is broken.        

 

Given we're only at the halfway mark of the season I hate to give up on it but the hard facts are its going to be tough to get to 10/11 wins given the remaining schedule and the state of the team.  I think when the season ends the consensus is going to be this group was kept together one year longer than it should have been and the reload should have started this year instead of 2024. 

[dpberr]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Don't care. They need to figure out a way to make that happen, he's dead weight at this point

 

I don't either, but to be fair, it would have consequences when it comes to relationships with other players and agents.  

 

It may not be all that bad.  Yes, he'd be leaving a lot of money on the table, but from Miller's perspective, negotiating a way out of Buffalo allows him to pick another team, or simply joining the team of his choice come November of the 2024 season for a playoff run.  

 

This year is IT for this iteration of the squad.  That's why I'm disappointed with the season so far.  A lot of these guys aren't in Buffalo next year.

 

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Move on from Tre asap regardless. Love him but the best ability is availability.

 

Von at least see how he closes out this season. If he somehow turns it around then try to rework some terms with him. Otherwise move on from him asap. Again the best ability is availability.

 

Knox’s contract is bad but not as bad. It aligns with Kincaid being paid relative peanuts. If you look at total allocation of cap to the position compared to total talent at the position then I think it becomes more palatable. (Draft a WR in first two rounds this April and roll out designated pass catchers of Diggs, Kincaid, Rookie, and Knox, with Shakir/Harty/Sherfield platooning at WR3. Good weapons. Just need to actually use them.)

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

He gets paid either way, though.  If his playing days are effectively over, why in the world would he want to take one dime less that’s he’s currently guaranteed?

?? 🙄 Why are you hounding me for the answer? It happens regularly in the sport. Tre is no different from the hundreds of players who do this. 
 

Google NFL bylaws by yourself.

[Charles Romes]

I think you can sell Knox for at least a fourth if you eat enough salary. 

[BillsFanForever19]

Tre has an out after this season. Given our cap situation and him coming off of an Achilles following coming off of an ACL, he's as good as gone. Maybe they tear up the contract and bring him back under a cheaper incentive laden deal. But that contract will be terminated.

 

As for Miller and Knox, they don't have an out until after next season. It doesn't make sense to pay more money to release them than to keep them for one more year. 

 

In Miller's case, he's one of only 2 DE's we have under contract following this season. Hell, we only have 3 DL total under contract for 2024 and beyond. So he's not going anywhere.

 

And at least with him, there's a case to be made that he's still recovering. It hasn't been a full year since his ACL injury. He's also been making small improvements week to week. He has been getting some pressures and was in position to make the tackle last night. Something we weren't seeing when he was first activated. 

 

We'll need to bring in a number of D-Lineman after this season just to fill the roster. Makes no sense to create an even bigger hole there and pay extra money to do so. If he truly is washed, you just make him situational going forward.

 

Knox just is what it is. I think it's obvious that when he does return, he's going to be behind Kincaid in 11 personnel (or at least I hope we stay in 11 and don't go back to 12). He'll back him up 1 more season and then we can get out from under the deal.

 

But yeah, long story short - Tre will (or should) be gone. Miller and Knox will be here for one more year. It doesn't make sense to get rid of them when it hurts the cap more to do so.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Von Miller

Tre White

Dawson Knox

 

In my eyes, you can do one of three things:

 

1) Ride them out, be mediocre because you don't have any cap space to work with, pray to God you get some kind of production out of them

2) Burn them all after this season, eat the same cap ***** sandwich and emerge in a much healthier place in 2025

3) Cut two of three of them, triage-style, still eat the cap ***** sandwich and be better off in 2025

 

Are there any other options out there? I'm happy to hear them.

 

 

I'd definitely cut Von. He is absolutely done. That was an all in for 2022 move, and luck wasn't on their side. It sucks but there it is.

 

I'd keep Knox another year but I'd move off him after 2024. I still think he can play and his performances this year are not a true reflection of him. Yes he will be overpaid next year but it costs you more to cut him than to keep him in 2024. So the best "take your medicine" approach on Knox is actually keeping him 1 more year then cutting him. 

 

On Tre.... question 1 is where is his head at? Does he still want to play? If he does then I'd see if he is willing to leave some unguaranteed money on the table for a little bump in the guaranteed segment of the next two years. If I can bring his cap hits down with a pay cut of that nature I'd be inclined to keep him. There is merit for him to trying to come back again to a scheme and a team he knows rather than fighting through it and learning something new. If he isn't willing to move at all on the deal then you have to cut him.

[TheBrownBear]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd definitely cut Von. He is absolutely done. That was an all in for 2022 move, and luck wasn't on their side. It sucks but there it is.

 

I'd keep Knox another year but I'd move off him after 2024. I still think he can play and his performances this year are not a true reflection of him. Yes he will be overpaid next year but it costs you more to cut him than to keep him in 2024. So the best "take your medicine" approach on Knox is actually keeping him 1 more year then cutting him. 

 

On Tre.... question 1 is where is his head at? Does he still want to play? If he does then I'd see if he is willing to leave some unguaranteed money on the table for a little bump in the guaranteed segment of the next two years. If I can bring his cap hits down with a pay cut of that nature I'd be inclined to keep him. There is merit for him to trying to come back again to a scheme and a team he knows rather than fighting through it and learning something new. If he isn't willing to move at all on the deal then you have to cut him.

You've pretty much nailed where I'm at with these guys.  Von is toast, but Knox has value as an all-around TE. 

 

I don't see much of a market for Tre as a FA.  His best bet (assuming he wants to play and we are still interested) is agreeing to big pay cut with the Bills and rehabbing for a midseason return. 

[Buffalo03]

4 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Von Miller

Tre White

Dawson Knox

 

In my eyes, you can do one of three things:

 

1) Ride them out, be mediocre because you don't have any cap space to work with, pray to God you get some kind of production out of them

2) Burn them all after this season, eat the same cap ***** sandwich and emerge in a much healthier place in 2025

3) Cut two of three of them, triage-style, still eat the cap ***** sandwich and be better off in 2025

 

Are there any other options out there? I'm happy to hear them.

 

Part ways with Knox, Maybe Miller depending on what happens from now until the offseason, ride it out with Tre and see what happens

[That's No Moon]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Knox we’re also stuck with. Another killer contract if they can’t get 12 personnel to work.

Dorsey's contract is much more reasonable to get rid of. 

 

I'm so glad they drafted a TE. They had no other needs.

8 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Part ways with Knox, Maybe Miller depending on what happens from now until the offseason, ride it out with Tre and see what happens

Keep Knox and find an OC that understands how to use TEs. 

[Boatdrinks]

4 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Before they just cut Tre outright, I think they discuss a restructuring to a level that would be more in line with his new market coming off injury,

 

With Knox, I think they consider his value in more than just being a pass catching TE, but his blocking ability too.

 

As for Von, depends his level of play by end of the season.  But they’re kind of screwed there no matter what.

I don’t see much point in restructuring TW. Is there much track record of CB’s returning to form post- Achilles injury? I think releasing him before his roster bonus is due is basically a slam dunk. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I don’t see much point in restructuring TW. Is there much track record of CB’s returning to form post- Achilles injury? I think releasing him before his roster bonus is due is basically a slam dunk. 

I’m skeptical if Tre will be able to come back from the Achilles injury, although this regime seems to be about as loyal as they can be to guys who work hard and are seen as leaders within the team.  I’ll be surprised if this regime releases him, before giving him that shot at a return.  But, I don’t think it’d be unreasonable for them to use the potential release as a bargaining chip to work out a more reasonable deal for both sides.

 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, strive_for_five_guy said:

I’m skeptical if Tre will be able to come back from the Achilles injury, although this regime seems to be about as loyal as they can be to guys who work hard and are seen as leaders within the team.  I’ll be surprised if this regime releases him, before giving him that shot at a return.  But, I don’t think it’d be unreasonable for them to use the potential release as a bargaining chip to work out a more reasonable deal for both sides.

 

Possibly, but they do have cap issues. It will be interesting. Just some really bad luck for Tre these past few seasons. 

[PatsFanNH]

5 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Von Miller

Tre White

Dawson Knox

 

In my eyes, you can do one of three things:

 

1) Ride them out, be mediocre because you don't have any cap space to work with, pray to God you get some kind of production out of them

2) Burn them all after this season, eat the same cap ***** sandwich and emerge in a much healthier place in 2025

3) Cut two of three of them, triage-style, still eat the cap ***** sandwich and be better off in 2025

 

Are there any other options out there? I'm happy to hear them.

 

Try trading them and get some draft capital to improve the team in the future and still take the cap hit but get something else out of it. 

[Success]

Miller WAS very good before he got hurt last year.  Even though he's older, there is at least a shot he becomes an impact player again.  It took Tre awhile to get back from the same injury (and unfortunately, within a few games of being back, he got hurt again).

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

Try trading them and get some draft capital to improve the team in the future and still take the cap hit but get something else out of it. 

Who in their right mind is trading for miller 

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Who in their right mind is trading for miller 

GM are dumb all the time. Someone may throw you a 5th round pick for him. You would probably get a 3rd for Knox and White may be the harder of the 3 with his injury history. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

4 hours ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

Hopefully Miller does the right thing, and retires. I know that doesn’t exactly fix his cap situation. He’s stealing money from the Bills. Same with Knox. Tre White could be a great safety to replace Poyer/Hyde, with a serious restructure of his contract. 

Love Tre, but he’s not a good tackler nor is he good at run support. He’d be a terrible safety 

[strive_for_five_guy]

17 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Possibly, but they do have cap issues. It will be interesting. Just some really bad luck for Tre these past few seasons. 

I think their entire defensive backfield is an interesting subject.  Micah’s in the last year of his deal, which I’d be surprised if they can and choose to re-sign because of age/salary

cap.  Dane also in last year of deal.  With the trade for Douglas, if somehow Tre gets close to form (a big IF), maybe Benford moves to FS.  Elam’s development is also a wild card.  Meanwhile, Poyer’s diminishing speed is concerning, so not sure what we should hope to see happen in the SS role.  No one on the team impresses me as the potential Poyer successor, but I’m not sure he’s got another season in him.

[PetermansRedemption]

5 hours ago, Trust The Process said:

Release Von, Tre, Knox, Harty, Hines, Morse, and Taron Johnson. Swallow the cap hit in 2024 and replace them with young affordable players. Addition by subtraction.

Add Poyer and Hyde to that mix. Both look washed this season. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

5 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Von Miller

Tre White

Dawson Knox

 

In my eyes, you can do one of three things:

 

1) Ride them out, be mediocre because you don't have any cap space to work with, pray to God you get some kind of production out of them

2) Burn them all after this season, eat the same cap ***** sandwich and emerge in a much healthier place in 2025

3) Cut two of three of them, triage-style, still eat the cap ***** sandwich and be better off in 2025

 

Are there any other options out there? I'm happy to hear them.

 

Trade them for Maxx Crosby, Hockstrap and Riley Moss

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Charles Romes said:

I think you can sell Knox for at least a fourth if you eat enough salary. 

 

No one's taking on Knox's contract for the mediocre play and give us a Draft pick for it. Even if we eat a bunch of the salary, the return that we would get would be less than a 4th. And in that case, we might as well keep him as TE2 and be rid of him after 1 more year.

 

I think with the way Knox has performed the past couple seasons, most teams would rather spend a Mid Round Pick to get a guy who has the potential to be better than him and have him under a cheaper Rookie deal for 4 years.

 

1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said:

Part ways with Knox, Maybe Miller depending on what happens from now until the offseason, ride it out with Tre and see what happens

 

Both of them have an out after 2024. Before then, you're paying big money to not have them on the roster. Might as well keep them for 1 more season and have them be situational or backups and then be rid of them after that.

 

Miller has a 32.5 Million Dead Cap hit to release him after this season. He's also 1 of only 2 DE's we have under contract and 1 of 3 D-Lineman period who are under contract.

 

So why would we take that down to 1 DE and 2 DL total and pay money to do so? Even if you think he's washed, you keep him as a situational guy like Bruce later in his career.

 

Getting rid of them just for the sake of getting rid of them and putting us in a deeper hole to do so makes no sense. Ride it out for 1 more year and if neither are performing well, just don't feature them. In Knox's case, put him behind Kincaid. In Miller's case, if he never returns to form, put him behind Rousseau and (hopefully if we can re-sign him) Floyd.

 

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

I don’t see much point in restructuring TW. Is there much track record of CB’s returning to form post- Achilles injury? I think releasing him before his roster bonus is due is basically a slam dunk. 

 

Agreed. The only way Tre is back is if we release him and he comes back under a new contract. There isn't a restructure that can be done to his current deal that would make the gamble that he is at this point worth not freeing yourself of that deal.

[peterpan]

5 hours ago, QCity said:

Stuck with Miller for one more year. Even when we cut him after 2024 it's a massive dead cap hit of $9M for the 2025 and 2026. Brutal. Same thing with Knox, we are stuck with him for 2024 essentially. 

 

Hate to say it but Tre is likely gone this offseason. Can't justify his $16M cap hit compared to saving $10M if he's cut.

 

The scary thing is (thanks to the restructures) Von only counts $8M towards our cap this year, next year he will count $24M towards the cap and there's not much Beane can do about it now.

What if you cut Von now? Does that account for dead cap this year? (I’m just curious) 

[peterpan]

No talk of Poyer and Hyde? They’ll only be a year older and slower next years.