Rumors swirling that Elam will be a scratch tonight for Norman. Trade coming?

[Dillenger4]

8 minutes ago, balln said:

Isabella makes no sense? Are they sitting harty ? 
 

should I get my dumpster and lighter now ….. or after the game?

Isabella makes 100% perfect sense. As soon as Knox went down and Morris is out - we need a guy to run the 12. Isabella is big and will fit that role for tonight.

[msw2112]

2 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

Dallas swapped 2nd round cb bust kelvin joseph to miami for their 1st round cb bust Noah Igbinoghene.

 

I imagine that is the type of deal that can happen if they were to trade elam at some point.

 

This concept reminds me of the Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Hughes trade, which worked out very well for the Bills.

 

And when I originally wrote this, I failed to see that both trades involved a player named Kelvin!  I was just thinking of a swap of highly-drafted players who didn't work out for their original teams.

Edited October 26, 2023 by msw2112

[CNYfan]

Josh Norman..... what the heck?  How can this be?

[Dillenger4]

6 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Isabella makes 100% perfect sense. As soon as Knox went down and Morris is out - we need a guy to run the 12. Isabella is big and will fit that role for tonight.

Oops - I meant Shorter. nevermind.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Beane's philosophy with 1st round picks has pretty much always been to take big swings at supremely physically gifted athletes and trust that his coaching staff will develop them into quality pros.

Sometimes it works: Josh Allen, Greg Rousseau

Sometimes it doesn't: Tremaine Edmunds, Kaiir Elam

 

No team hits on 100% of their 1st round draft picks. No one. 

Yes, the Elam pick was a whiff. No, there's no spinning it any other way. But no, it doesn't need to be some huge indictment on the GM or the coaches. Sometimes, players bust. It happens. It's part of football.

Beane and the coaching staff helped limit the pain of the Elam pick by finding, drafting, and developing Christian Benford. Yes, you'd rather that the Elam pick had hit as well, but it didn't. That's life. That's the draft. Let's not turn simple arithmetic into complex algebra. You win some, you lose some.

 

The pick of Elam bothers me a lot less than the handling of him.

[Beast]

If they do that and lose tonight because of poor CB play, yes…trade McDermott and Beane right the ***** out of town.

[Process]

Just now, Beast said:

If they do that and lose tonight because of poor CB play, yes…trade McDermott and Beane right the ***** out of town.

Barring injury Benford and Jackson will play 100% of snaps. Very unlikely he sees the field. 

 

Whole thing is still ridiculous.

[Captain_Quint]

3 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Elam played beane and mcd with his notebook during the draft. Mcd falls in love with hard working blue collar players, and Elam pulling out that notebook during the interview played mcd right into a 1st round panic pick.

Especially because this was all that was in it:

[BillsFanForever19]

He has to be on the market. As bad as he's been with us, no way you make him a healthy scratch for Josh Norman this soon after signing him unless you're trying to keep Elam healthy.

 

Elam never made sense from Day 1. He had high potential coming out of College, but he was a man to man cover Corner pretty much exclusively. He was a projection as a Zone scheme player. 

[Buffalo03]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Cover1 had it first, then saw this report that Josh Norman is gonna be activated tonight: 

 

https://x.com/thebillsguys/status/1717597828724531307?s=46&t=RLsRhQJBb5vROsgfJWkwSw

 

If it’s true you have to think that’s the end of Elam here. A colossal waste and I’m not really happy with how we handled him at all. 

You're not happy with how we handled him? Would you prefer he continue to be a liability on the field just to get playing time?

Edited October 26, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Draconator]

UPDATE!

 

I'm drinking

[Roundybout]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

You're not happy with how we handled him? Would you prefer he continue to be a liability on the field just to get playing time?

Im not happy that we drafted a guy with a very specific skill set, then did not adapt the defense to said skill set.

[taglientep]

3 minutes ago, Draconator said:

UPDATE!

 

I'm drinking

About to start myself….. whatcha drinkin 

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, taglientep said:

About to start myself….. whatcha drinkin 

 

Vermont made Mythic gin. I'm fortunate to have a good friend who owns a liquor store. Found this gin on a recent trip to Vermont, and my friend ordered a case. 

[Buffalo03]

8 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Im not happy that we drafted a guy with a very specific skill set, then did not adapt the defense to said skill set.

You don't change an entire defensive philosophy over one CB. He was drafted because he was looked at as a fit for our defense. It didn't work out as he is not good enough. No GM drafts players that aren't supposed to already fit their system

Edited October 26, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Roundybout]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

You don't change an entire defensive philosophy over one CB. He was drafted because he was look at as a fit for our defense. It didn't work out as he is not good enough. No GM drafts players that aren't supposed to already fit their system

A good coach adapts scheme to players, not the other way around. See: Ryan, Rex.

[Buffalo03]

5 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

A good coach adapts scheme to players, not the other way around. See: Ryan, Rex.

No, you set a system and you draft players that fit that system. You don't go drafting 3-4 players for a 4-3 system or vice versa. And then any player you draft or sign from that point on is supposed to be a system fit. You don't get a player that doesn't fit and then change everything to fit that one players skill set

Edited October 26, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Niagara Dude]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Cover1 had it first, then saw this report that Josh Norman is gonna be activated tonight: 

 

https://x.com/thebillsguys/status/1717597828724531307?s=46&t=RLsRhQJBb5vROsgfJWkwSw

 

If it’s true you have to think that’s the end of Elam here. A colossal waste and I’m not really happy with how we handled him at all. 

Not sure if anyone mentioned Beanne trade at 4th rounder to move up 2 spots to draft this guy and now this.  I this pick along with Cody Ford and Basham pick are 3 of his worse picks and giving Knox 14-15 mllion a season starting 2024 one his worse signings.  Beane and his little buddy McDermott have really overcome some really bad choices and events.  I think Beane needs to make a couple of deals using picks outside of our first to add one offensive player and one defensive player. 

 

Just making the playoffs with a top 3-4 NFL QB is an expected thing not an accomplishment.  Fans forget during the draught of not making the playoffs,  not one of those HC/GM'S had a even a top 5-8 QB running the team.  

 

So that excuse needs to stop,  either they produce or one of the two needs to be fired.  Same low football IQ dude not mad on draft night for the Bills taking Cody Ford and over not drafting either WR Brown or Metcalf are going to be getting defensive after reading this. Sit down,  you were wrong on draft night and you're wrong today.

 

I hope Beane can prove me wrong and make a deal or two,  if not this season will end no better and maybe worse then last year.

43 minutes ago, Beast said:

If they do that and lose tonight because of poor CB play, yes…trade McDermott and Beane right the ***** out of town.

But But But But they ended the playoff draught and earned the right to never be questioned.  They have jobs for life for some fans

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Every GM misses on even high draft picks. 

Just stop calling Beane a genius. He's no better than any other average GM.

He wastes picks and he would be out of a job if Cleveland or NYJ took Allen. 

[finn]

3 hours ago, dpberr said:

Elam is this FO's worst pick to date because Elam excelled at man coverage in college.  

 

The risk that he would not develop into a zone corner was high from the moment he was selected.    I always felt the mistake was on the Bills for having the hubris that their coaching could transform him.  

 

 

My only hope (if they trade him) is they sell him as someone with a skill set that doesn't work for the Bills but would for another team. 

[Green Lightning]

59 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Isabella makes 100% perfect sense. As soon as Knox went down and Morris is out - we need a guy to run the 12. Isabella is big and will fit that role for tonight.

Huh?

[SirAndrew]

49 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The pick of Elam bothers me a lot less than the handling of him.

It’s impossible to get out of McD’s doghouse. That’s the issue I see with too many of our younger players. 

[Old Coot]

Elam seemed to be a legit 1st rounder. He played for a couple of years for the Gators and played well.

 

His dad and uncle played in the NFL so he had that pedigree.

 

He's played well on occasion and seems to be a fit for a zone D.

 

What is the problem? He's a bit young. Is he resistant to coaching? Is he a head case?

 

Those who blame coaching may be right but I find it hard to believe you would tank a 1st rounder over coaching problems especially when the staff has been so successful in developing cbs.

[Alphadawg7]

I wasn't overly concerned when this was going on earlier in the year given we had Tre, Benford and Dane and maybe they were just wanting to see him make some improvement in parts of his game.  Especially since he showed some promise late last year.  

 

However, if Elam can't get on the active roster over Norman at this stage, then that is a lot more concerning and tells me he is either part of trade talks or he really has fallen way out of favor with the staff in some way.  Because there is no reality where Norman should be active tonight, so I think this is more likely because Elam is in some trade talks.  

 

And if he ends up not being traded, I have a feeling he will be active next game over Norman.  

[whorlnut]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

But we have no idea how he was handled.  Pure speculation.

 

No other teams would play Benford and Jackson over Elam?  Get a grip.  You’re about to drive off the edge with this nonsense.  Benford is pretty good.  Jackson has been improving season after season.  Both are great tacklers. 

 

Elam was a press man corner that sucked at tackling. He’s always had problems being too handsy.  If we didn’t reach for him, he may have been a 3rd rd pick.  His upside is in his physical ability and that’s all.  He has an opportunity vs Jax and was able to get smoked on every 3rd down he was targeted
 

maybe every team in the league would’ve been starting Shawn Oakman over DTs that actually had a clue how to play the position.  But probably not.  

I’m not exactly sure why most people can’t see this. 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, Old Coot said:

Elam seemed to be a legit 1st rounder. He played for a couple of years for the Gators and played well.

 

His dad and uncle played in the NFL so he had that pedigree.

 

He's played well on occasion and seems to be a fit for a zone D.

 

What is the problem? He's a bit young. Is he resistant to coaching? Is he a head case?

 

Those who blame coaching may be right but I find it hard to believe you would tank a 1st rounder over coaching problems especially when the staff has been so successful in developing cbs.

 

Its funny, the same people blaming coaching are the same ones who said we didn't need to take a CB early because McD is so great at coaching up CB's.  lol

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, SWATeam said:

Hopefully another player 

 

Likely if if he is traded it is for another player not performing well for current team so as to give both players a chance to recover their careers,  Bills did that once and got a great player.

4 hours ago, dpberr said:

Elam is this FO's worst pick to date because Elam excelled at man coverage in college.  

 

The risk that he would not develop into a zone corner was high from the moment he was selected.    I always felt the mistake was on the Bills for having the hubris that their coaching could transform him.  

 

He is too "handsy" in game.  Some players seem to get away with it but zebras call it frequently on him but not enough of an expert to determine if is how he is doing it or zebras are just seeing him do it when other players avoid it.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

But we have no idea how he was handled.  Pure speculation.

 

No other teams would play Benford and Jackson over Elam?  Get a grip.  You’re about to drive off the edge with this nonsense.  Benford is pretty good.  Jackson has been improving season after season.  Both are great tacklers. 

 

Elam was a press man corner that sucked at tackling. He’s always had problems being too handsy.  If we didn’t reach for him, he may have been a 3rd rd pick.  His upside is in his physical ability and that’s all.  He has an opportunity vs Jax and was able to get smoked on every 3rd down he was targeted
 

maybe every team in the league would’ve been starting Shawn Oakman over DTs that actually had a clue how to play the position.  But probably not.  

 

I agree with most of this except the bolded.  Personally, I don't think we reached for him, he was mostly seen as a mid/late 1st to early 2nd type pick.  And technically, if we didn't take him in the first, we would have in the 2nd had he managed to slip there, so there was no plausible scenario he would have been a 3rd round pick.  

[Punching Bag]

7 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I’m not exactly sure why most people can’t see this. 

 

Poor imaginations and not enough time playing fantasy GM.

[JMM]

I refuse to believe that this is simply a case of him not playing well. He was a projected first rounder, seen as a good pick, he struggled but eventually started in the playoffs and had a very good game against the Fins. Something has happened,  and I don't believe it's got anything to do with his play on the field.  Don't know if we will ever learn what it is, and not our business. If it means he needs to get a fresh start somewhere else so be it. A trade is obviously the goal rather than an outright release. We shall see, but certainly very disappointing.

[HOUSE]

Just one more reason to drink beer than skip work ...

 

 

 

.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Bogie_Klinkhammer

[juno999]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I wasn't overly concerned when this was going on earlier in the year given we had Tre, Benford and Dane and maybe they were just wanting to see him make some improvement in parts of his game.  Especially since he showed some promise late last year.  

 

However, if Elam can't get on the active roster over Norman at this stage, then that is a lot more concerning and tells me he is either part of trade talks or he really has fallen way out of favor with the staff in some way.  Because there is no reality where Norman should be active tonight, so I think this is more likely because Elam is in some trade talks.  

 

And if he ends up not being traded, I have a feeling he will be active next game over Norman.  

Agree with this.  Unsure of the timing but believe they'll promote CB Ingram to 53 if Elam is traded.

[Drew21PA]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I don't like it...the dude has shown the ability to play well at times. If anything the way they have handled him has destroyed his confidence more than anything.  What a waste. Guarantee if he goes somewhere else and gets a chance within a year we will regret that in a Wyatt Teller sort of way, although I wouldn't go as far as saying he will become an all-pro.

 

This is the limitation of McD on D.  He would rather play low end players who are safer with limited upside than potential high end players that may require some time to get there.  No other team in the NFL would be having Benford, Jackson and Ingram play in place of Elam.

He’s terrible stop it

 

cut your loss - yes he was a first rounder but he’s terrible plain and simple

 

hes regressed and is worse 

[BillsfaninSB]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I agree with most of this except the bolded.  Personally, I don't think we reached for him, he was mostly seen as a mid/late 1st to early 2nd type pick.  And technically, if we didn't take him in the first, we would have in the 2nd had he managed to slip there, so there was no plausible scenario he would have been a 3rd round pick.  

The Bills hopped over Dallas to get him.  They must have had some intel telling them to move up.

 

It was him or Booth.  Booth went much later so that tells me they had the right idea.

 

Draft picks just don’t always work out.

 

Stupid Tre injury. screwed everything up.   Would’ve likely went deeper in the playoffs and never would’ve picked this guy if that didn’t happen.

[Draconator]

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Dillenger4 said:

Isabella makes 100% perfect sense. As soon as Knox went down and Morris is out - we need a guy to run the 12. Isabella is big and will fit that role for tonight.

……..

[Roundybout]

Wishing Elam well in all his future endeavors 

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Roundybout said:

Wishing Elam well in all his future endeavors 

Motivated sellers …

[MikePJ76]

5 minutes ago, Draconator said:

 

good news on ed oliver

[HalftimeAdjustment]

What's the deal with Hamlin inactive almost every week? Is he physically back to form or not?