Rumors swirling that Elam will be a scratch tonight for Norman. Trade coming?

[Success]

1 minute ago, balln said:

That is blind denial from rose colored glass wearing homer fandom 

 

You said we'd be 4-4 after tonight.

 

I say we'll be 5-3.

 

After the game, we can assess if one of us is a homer, or if one of us is being overly negative.

 

[dorquemada]

20 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

No, but Aaron Rodgers is on IR because of the Bills D.  So…I hope the Bills D makes Baker Mayfield look like Aaron Rodgers because he played one snap and went on IR.  Get it? 

 

because of the Bills D?  Not quite how i remember it

[SoonerBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Who would want to trade for Elam though? Is there a need for corners that can't cover?

Lmao,there is always a team that's willing 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, dorquemada said:

 

because of the Bills D?  Not quite how i remember it

 

The Bills D didn't do anything to him. I was there. The Bills brought pressure and Rodgers rolled to his right and threw the ball away. He started limping badly and then went to the ground. The Bills D never hit him on that play.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Gregg

[teef]

1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Shirtless?

It didn’t even cross my mind, but now I see now other way around it. 

[balln]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

You said we'd be 4-4 after tonight.

 

I say we'll be 5-3.

 

After the game, we can assess if one of us is a homer, or if one of us is being overly negative.

 

Sounds good. I’m a diehard bills fan. Either way the outcome tonight doesn’t change my opinion of the team this year. Window is closed. Everything from coaches to players looks like they are in full on panic / crisis mode. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, teef said:

i might as well just go stand around on the field tonight.  

I request Birthday suit teef

[Yobogoya!]

1 hour ago, Process said:

This is the most McDermott move of all time 

 

Classic McD.

 

Only question is did we even bother to work out EJ Gaines before we signed Norman? He's like six years younger, surely there's higher upside! 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, balln said:

here comes some Reality

 

roussea is an adequate starter. He will never be dominant or consistently impactful. Sure if the qb holds the ball for a long while then he’ll make a sack. He has zero bend and zero moves

 

AJE is a JaG. again only if qb hold ball long enough and he’s playing a weak tackle. He is absolutely brutally bad against the run. Setting edge and playing misdirection 

 

Knox and Davis are mediocre . Do not seperarte and drop way too many passes 

 

Torrence has been solid. But he still gives me cody ford vibes

 

cook is a sub back in the nfl bc he can’t pass block. They’ve been starting murray the last two weeks….

Here's some reality: most of those who claim to be realists are not actually realists. They are pessimists.

 

That's what you are. You are not a realist by any stretch of the imagination, and pessimists like you are incapable of seeing reality.

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, teef said:

i might as well just go stand around on the field tonight.  

be sure to turn around and look for the ball every so often when the Bucs’ offense is out there!

[harmonkillebrew]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Cant believe it was not only a first round pick but we gave a 4th to move up 2 spots for him? So Dallas would not pick him? Meanwhile McBeane would not "waste" a 4th on trading for a player at the deadline. 

yeah, this is too rich.

Beane has over and over again moved up to draft guys that don't work out. You'd think he'd learn from his mistakes...

[Logic]

30 minutes ago, pigpen65 said:

Wonder what the story is with Elam. McD hates him 

I think it's simple:

Elam was a physically gifted cover corner in college. The book on him was that he was a god man coverage corner (albeit a bit handsy), but struggled in zone coverage and with effective tackling.

I believe the staff felt that they could teach him what he needed to know about zone coverage and could coach him to be a better tackler. It's easier to teach a good man coverage corner to play zone, theoretically, than to teach a physically limited zone corner to be effective in man coverage.

Unfortunately, Elam never quite seemed to learn his zone responsibilities well enough to earn the trust of the coaches. Also unfortunately for him, he had a player drafted alongside him in Christian Benford who excels both in knowledge of his zone responsibilities AND as a tackler -- two of the most important aspects in McDermott's defense. Personally, I expected Benford to have the early edge, but Elam to catch up the more he learned. The only problem is he never DID quite seem to learn, leaving him as a schematic mismatch for the Bills defense.

The hope in attempting to trade him would be that there's a team out there that plays more man coverage and feels he'd be a good fit for what they ask of their corners. I warn Bills fans: if they DO manage to trade Elam, it's likely to be for a frustratingly low return. Think no better than a 5th round pick, and even that might be lofty. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Logic

[KOKBILLS]

28 minutes ago, Logic said:

Beane's philosophy with 1st round picks has pretty much always been to take big swings at supremely physically gifted athletes and trust that his coaching staff will develop them into quality pros.

Sometimes it works: Josh Allen, Greg Rousseau

Sometimes it doesn't: Tremaine Edmunds, Kaiir Elam

 

No team hits on 100% of their 1st round draft picks. No one. 

Yes, the Elam pick was a whiff. No, there's no spinning it any other way. But no, it doesn't need to be some huge indictment on the GM or the coaches. Sometimes, players bust. It happens. It's part of football.

Beane and the coaching staff helped limit the pain of the Elam pick by finding, drafting, and developing Christian Benford. Yes, you'd rather that the Elam pick had hit as well, but it didn't. That's life. That's the draft. Let's not turn simple arithmetic into complex algebra. You win some, you lose some.

 

I totally agree...

 

But I still can't figure out why BBB did not go Pickens and Woolen instead... I feel like they both fit that mold. And I know Woolen went in the 5th, but weird stuff happens in the Draft sometimes. Woolen certainly has proven to be the better prospect than Elam. And I liked Woolen more going into that Draft anyway... Endless upside... 

[MikePJ76]

41 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

Anyone know about this guy? Rumor - Derrick Henry to Bills?

yea he is the typical twitter dope who needs attention 24/7

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

McD and Beane were a package deal from the get go. They're like peas in a pod. 

 

The number of scheme incompatible players we've brought in during their tenure truly baffles the mind. Few GM/HC combos should be as aligned as these two. 

 

You could almost make the argument Whaley brought in better fits for McD before he was given the boot. Including: two all-pro safeties, an all pro CB, an all pro LB and a pro bowl LT. Yeesh. 

All-pro guard as well. Whaley was a flawed GM but seems like he was a good scout. ppl love to chit on him, but we see that same story in NFL all the time. awesome coordinator, sucks as a HC. it doesnt diminish them in my eyes. someone whos the best at what they do, trying to move up the ladder. the competitiveness for jobs with only 32 teams is insane... reminds me of a fighter whos dominated every contender in his class, goes up a class for a 2nd belt shot and loses... is Canelo Alvarez a bum? Israel Adesanya?  Im on a rant, but i never liked the Whaley hate even when we upgraded (imo)

[Kaenon]

Maybe a player for player swap ?

The Carolina CB?

[Mango]

23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Greg starting to get to that double digit realm as a rotational player

 

try again

 

A few things you said here that need to be unpacked. 

"Greg is starting to get to that double digit realm"...no he isn't. He has 3 sacks on the year, on pace for 7. Loose use of the term "approaching". If the Bills made it to the SB, Rousseau would be on pace for 9 sacks. Still not 10. 

"As a rotational player"...Most people would not consider a first round pick in his third year being "rotational" an upside. 

 

"As a rotational player" (continued)....This is also just wrong, he is listed as a starter on the Bills depth chart, and is second among our DE in snap count. 3 sacks for your starting DE isn't great. 

I think Rousseau is a nice player. I don't think he is a stud. He could certainly turn out to be. I like him, but don't love him. 

 

[balln]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

A few things you said here that need to be unpacked. 

"Greg is starting to get to that double digit realm"...no he isn't. He has 3 sacks on the year, on pace for 7. Loose use of the term "approaching". If the Bills made it to the SB, Rousseau would be on pace for 9 sacks. Still not 10. 

"As a rotational player"...Most people would not consider a first round pick in his third year being "rotational" an upside. 

 

"As a rotational player" (continued)....This is also just wrong, he is listed as a starter on the Bills depth chart, and is second among our DE in snap count. 3 sacks for your starting DE isn't great. 

I think Rousseau is a nice player. I don't think he is a stud. He could certainly turn out to be. I like him, but don't love him. 

 

Exactly. He’s “impactful” when you have Ed and DQ blowing up the middle. And Floyd on other end. W Milano blitzing or dropping matchup behind you…..

 

he doesn’t create enough on his own- much like all of the bulls players in general.

 

again he’s an adequate starter. Has no bend. Has no moves

Edited October 26, 2023 by balln

[Straight Hucklebuck]

36 minutes ago, balln said:

Sounds good. I’m a diehard bills fan. Either way the outcome tonight doesn’t change my opinion of the team this year. Window is closed. Everything from coaches to players looks like they are in full on panic / crisis mode. 

I think another top flight WR would really help this team, and is the piece they are missing. 

 

Diggs to Allen in 2020 got us past the first round, but we just have not added that 2nd huge talent at WR. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[26TrapDraw]

36 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

I request Birthday suit teef

and streak to boot. Gofundme page pending for bail money.

[balln]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think at another top flight WR would really help this team, and is the piece they are missing. 

 

Diggs to Allen in 2020 got us past the first round, but we just have not added that 2nd huge talent at WR. 

It’s one of the other. Either Allen takes another elite step. And really throws these guy open at all levels. Or he needs elite 2 to see separation to either a) pull the decision making lever to throw Or b) allow for his inconsistently inaccurate balls to make it the wr catch radius 

Edited October 26, 2023 by balln

[thenorthremembers]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

A few things you said here that need to be unpacked. 

"Greg is starting to get to that double digit realm"...no he isn't. He has 3 sacks on the year, on pace for 7. Loose use of the term "approaching". If the Bills made it to the SB, Rousseau would be on pace for 9 sacks. Still not 10. 

"As a rotational player"...Most people would not consider a first round pick in his third year being "rotational" an upside. 

 

"As a rotational player" (continued)....This is also just wrong, he is listed as a starter on the Bills depth chart, and is second among our DE in snap count. 3 sacks for your starting DE isn't great. 

I think Rousseau is a nice player. I don't think he is a stud. He could certainly turn out to be. I like him, but don't love him. 

 

Say it louder for the people in the back.  I recall a arguing with a poster on here last year when he said Rosseau was nearing Elite Level.    Good size, average defensive end to date.   8-9 sacks a year is good player.   Greg is a long ways from Elite.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, balln said:

It’s one of the other. Either Allen takes another elite step. And really throws these guy open at all levels. Or he needs to see separation to either a) pull the decision making lever to throw Or b) allow for his inconsistently inaccurate balls to make it the wr catch radius 

100% agree. 

 

I don't understand how there is not unanimous agreement that Gabe is not a #2, and is holding this offense back. 

 

I'm sure you thought it too, it started with the passing on AJ Brown and DK Metcalf, but really, when they signed Emmanuel Sanders. 

 

It hasn't fallen right in the Draft for them the past two seasons, but Beane has to get that to close the Allen-Mahomes gap, let alone the rest of the AFC. We need a 1st Round traits WR on this roster.  Also, Diggs is 29/30. 1,500 yards isn't going to last forever either.  

[damj]

When did "The Process" start to include signing Washed Up old CBs, who were shot when they played for us 3 years ago

[Straight Hucklebuck]

6 minutes ago, balln said:

It’s one of the other. Either Allen takes another elite step. And really throws these guy open at all levels. Or he needs elite 2 to see separation to either a) pull the decision making lever to throw Or b) allow for his inconsistently inaccurate balls to make it the wr catch radius 

And on Allen, that's why I've harped on his physical fitness. 

 

Because he's in Year 6 now, so what is the one large lever to get to another level that ALLEN admits hasn't been maximized? 

 

Dedication in the weight room. 

3 minutes ago, damj said:

When did "The Process" start to include signing Washed Up old CBs, who were shot when they played for us 3 years ago

Yeah, if he sees the field, that's embarrassing. 

 

There was a reason they got rid of him the first time and he drifted out of the league. 

[Bob in STL]

Not good any way you think about this. 

 
Wasted pick and very thin at CB.  

 

[billsfan714]

Thing especially hurts about Elam, is it was a 1st and a 4th rounder, that's a good chunk of a draft.  Get sick of hearing Beane moved up because so and so was going to take player X, like Beane is privy to everyone's draft board.

[damj]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

And on Allen, that's why I've harped on his physical fitness. 

 

Because he's in Year 6 now, so what is the one large lever to get to another level that ALLEN admits hasn't been maximized? 

 

Dedication in the weight room. 

Yeah, if he sees the field, that's embarrassing. 

 

There was a reason they got rid of him the first time and he drifted out of the league. 

The fact we signed Norman is embarrassing 

[Mango]

9 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Say it louder for the people in the back.  I recall a arguing with a poster on here last year when he said Rosseau was nearing Elite Level.    Good size, average defensive end to date.   8-9 sacks a year is good player.   Greg is a long ways from Elite.

I think if a pass rusher is going to be called elite after a single season they likely need 14-ish+ sacks. 

To be considered elite after a number of seasons, I think a player needs to link a few -10 12-ish sack seasons together. 

[Process]

If we do trade Elam we have to be getting a CB in return. Being one injury away from Josh Norman starting at CB is insane. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, damj said:

The fact we signed Norman is embarrassing 

I agree, that's reaching back to the Carolina days for a player that is so far past the short prime he did have. 

Like I said, if he sees the field, then the Bills deserve the torching they're going to get. 

That Elam pick ... wow

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think if a pass rusher is going to be called elite after a single season they likely need 14-ish+ sacks. 

To be considered elite after a number of seasons, I think a player needs to link a few -10 12-ish sack seasons together. 

Greg - elite?

No - come on people - TJ Watt, Myles Garrett, Nick Bosa - that's the cream of the crop. 

[Draconator]

Seems to be legit

 

 

[balln]

Too many homers on here. 

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I agree, that's reaching back to the Carolina days for a player that is so far past the short prime he did have. 

Like I said, if he sees the field, then the Bills deserve the torching they're going to get. 

That Elam pick ... wow

Greg - elite?

No - come on people - TJ Watt, Myles Garrett, Nick Bosa - that's the cream of the crop. 

 

Right, that is what we were talking about. He isn't elite
 

[Aussie Joe]

The best they can do for CB depth is Norman?

 

Season is going off the rails ..

[balln]

1 minute ago, Draconator said:

Seems to be legit

 

 

Isabella makes no sense? Are they sitting harty ? 
 

should I get my dumpster and lighter now ….. or after the game?

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Ingram can stand in the hole in perfect position to make a tackle on Etienne for a 2 yard gain and never touches him on the way to a 35 yard TD tho and that's cool right?  Don't bother to attempt a tackle and it's fine...as long as you don't try and then miss.

 

Yeah that substitution was a joke. Another dumb coaching decision in a critical moment in a close game that ultimately cost us a win. Under McDermott there have been way too many of those decisions in those moments. For someone who claims to be a detail oriented person, he sure misses a lot of details.

 

It's really crazy that we're actually putting Josh Norman onto the active roster. It justifies so many criticisms that have been levied against McDermott over the past few years.

[Draconator]

Just now, balln said:

Isabella makes no sense? Are they sitting harty ? 
 

should I get my dumpster and lighter now ….. or after the game?

Finhaven has a special place for you

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, balln said:

Isabella makes no sense? Are they sitting harty ? 
 

should I get my dumpster and lighter now ….. or after the game?

I’d guess Ty Johnson is inactive

 

if Gabe sits, that would be shocking

[LyndonvilleBill]

3 minutes ago, balln said:

Isabella makes no sense? Are they sitting harty ? 
 

should I get my dumpster and lighter now ….. or after the game?

I actually like Isabella being brought up. I'm hoping he gets some targets to see what we got. He's got some wheels and just a little bigger. Why not? Harty is/was a waste of money.