Bring back the K-Gun and the hurry up offense

[GoBills!]

Is it just me or is the Josh calling plays at the line and forcing the opponent no chance to sub the best route we have to score. I feel like the backyard ball Josh can play with our Wr's is best by keeping the D on the toes. I am done with the shotgun draws for 2-3 yards no one is falling for those. 

 

Let Josh be his own playcaller the way Peyton and others do. I'd rather he improvise at the line vs watching the D prepare for the same vanilla 7 plays.

K-Gun needs to come back.

[section122]

I wont say for sure but i believe that allen had to call his own play on the cook td pass.  At this point they need to try something to find rhythm on offense because it has been lacking for 3 straight games.

[GoBills!]

10 minutes ago, section122 said:

I wont say for sure but i believe that allen had to call his own play on the cook td pass.  At this point they need to try something to find rhythm on offense because it has been lacking for 3 straight games.

It seemed that way, I think he has a great grasp on the D and also seeing the match ups. Ball certainly gets spread around more when he is running the hurry up.

[GustheDog33]

A QB calling their own plays is a recipe for disaster in today’s NFL. The D will use the Mic/Comm and destroy an offense that will inevitably get into patterns and predictable rhythms. I am 100% in favor or no huddle and playing hurry-up all game. That is a difficult transition at this point in the season, as well. Mostly due to the conditioning needed to play it. Tempo is only an advantage if your guys are in good enough shape to really do it.

[Bookie Man]

Been saying this for weeks. They definitely need to mix it in. Remember how the Brady Pats would go to it for spurts of the game. Offense needs to give themselves a jumpstart it seems. They looks so lethargic when they try and go ball control and take the play clock down to 4 every time. 

[That's No Moon]

What I will say is that it's two weeks in a row where the offense came alive in the 4th quarter. Presumably that's after they threw out the game plan for the day because it wasn't working. Whether or not Allen was calling his own plays during that I don't know.  What I do know is that the planned, coordinated, part of the offense has been dog water for a long time now.

[sven233]

I don't need the K-Gun offense.  That is a hard offense to run in today's NFL.  But, what I do want is an offense that plays with pace.  I would love to run a modified hurry up where we get to the line immediately and have more time to see what personnel the defense has on the field and control the tempo of the game.  It would also help the offense to stay focused and maybe get into a rhythm.  No, I don't need the K-Gun, but an offense with a sense of urgency and pace would be a welcome change.

[transient]

11 minutes ago, sven233 said:

I don't need the K-Gun offense.  That is a hard offense to run in today's NFL.  But, what I do want is an offense that plays with pace.  I would love to run a modified hurry up where we get to the line immediately and have more time to see what personnel the defense has on the field and control the tempo of the game.  It would also help the offense to stay focused and maybe get into a rhythm.  No, I don't need the K-Gun, but an offense with a sense of urgency and pace would be a welcome change.

If not all game, at least try starting off with it to see if it gets the offense into a rhythm. Speeding things up early might prevent Allen from drifting into a funk for 3 quarters until they’ve pissed away any chance of winning with their banged up defense. 

[Bangarang]

People have been suggesting this after watching a successful 2 minute of 4 minute drill as if this team can sustain it for an entire season or even an entire game.

[TwistofFate]

I think we should operate in the hurry up all the time.  Much more rhythm and doesn't allow their defense to really set up. 

[Pirate Angel]

1 hour ago, GoBills! said:

Is it just me or is the Josh calling plays at the line and forcing the opponent no chance to sub the best route we have to score. I feel like the backyard ball Josh can play with our Wr's is best by keeping the D on the toes. I am done with the shotgun draws for 2-3 yards no one is falling for those. 

 

Let Josh be his own playcaller the way Peyton and others do. I'd rather he improvise at the line vs watching the D prepare for the same vanilla 7 plays.

K-Gun needs to come back.

I was thinking the same thing...we definitely need a more aggressive attack

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, GoBills! said:

Is it just me or is the Josh calling plays at the line and forcing the opponent no chance to sub the best route we have to score. I feel like the backyard ball Josh can play with our Wr's is best by keeping the D on the toes. I am done with the shotgun draws for 2-3 yards no one is falling for those. 

 

Let Josh be his own playcaller the way Peyton and others do. I'd rather he improvise at the line vs watching the D prepare for the same vanilla 7 plays.

K-Gun needs to come back.

you want mr ‘don’t like to over indulge on film’ to call the plays? 🤦‍♂️ 

[SoMAn]

Something I’ve noticed is that the offense appears to have more efficiency and better rhythm at a faster pace. I don’t know that ‘no-huddle’ is exactly right, but I believe Allen operates better in a fast-break offense. 
 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

What I will say is that it's two weeks in a row where the offense came alive in the 4th quarter. Presumably that's after they threw out the game plan for the day because it wasn't working. Whether or not Allen was calling his own plays during that I don't know.  What I do know is that the planned, coordinated, part of the offense has been dog water for a long time now.

It's not 2 weeks in a row....it's 3 weeks in a row they did the same thing in London. Not saying it'd work but they did.

37 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

People have been suggesting this after watching a successful 2 minute of 4 minute drill as if this team can sustain it for an entire season or even an entire game.

The other teams defense would also have to keep up. Also you only need to be fast when the game is close, if it works well you can slow down. Still a lot of what ifs on if it's a good idea though.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, GoBills! said:

Is it just me or is the Josh calling plays at the line and forcing the opponent no chance to sub the best route we have to score. I feel like the backyard ball Josh can play with our Wr's is best by keeping the D on the toes. I am done with the shotgun draws for 2-3 yards no one is falling for those. 

 

Let Josh be his own playcaller the way Peyton and others do. I'd rather he improvise at the line vs watching the D prepare for the same vanilla 7 plays.

K-Gun needs to come back.

Josh is not now nor will he probably ever be anywhere near Peyton when it comes to on field intelligence. He has a hard enough time with progressions and still can't recognize coverages. He is a physical freak and that's still very valuable, but he needs a system and this 12 personnel is not it. Spreading the field and making defenses choose between coverage or a spy was where he flourished. 

[GoBills!]

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

It's not 2 weeks in a row....it's 3 weeks in a row they did the same thing in London. Not saying it'd work but they did.

The other teams defense would also have to keep up. Also you only need to be fast when the game is close, if it works well you can slow down. Still a lot of what ifs on if it's a good idea though.

That how I felt it wasn't during prevent D times or garbage time. But I feel it is harder for them to react when we are on the fly, Diggs, Kincaid, Cook and Murray are  great for this setup. Even Gabe was great in the drive in London. 

 

Maybe we don't do it all game but I'd rather start a game with that vs the usual 3 and outs we be doing for the first couple of series.

[harmonkillebrew]

I was just thinking this.

I remember when the K-Gun started. It was a similar dynamic. The O was consistently humming in 2-min hurry up and middling the rest of the time. Marchibroda made the call to let Kelly go hurry up full-time. 

 

I think Dorsey is hamstringing this team and we might try a mix up that lets Josh start cooking and get into a rhythm 

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, GoBills! said:

Is it just me or is the Josh calling plays at the line and forcing the opponent no chance to sub the best route we have to score. I feel like the backyard ball Josh can play with our Wr's is best by keeping the D on the toes. I am done with the shotgun draws for 2-3 yards no one is falling for those. 

 

Let Josh be his own playcaller the way Peyton and others do. I'd rather he improvise at the line vs watching the D prepare for the same vanilla 7 plays.

K-Gun needs to come back.

I'm for trying anything at this point because what they're doing is clearly not working.

 

It's not until the 4th quarter in hurry up before we start scoring so might as well see if we can get it going in the other 3 quarters too.

[BADOLBILZ]

54 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

People have been suggesting this after watching a successful 2 minute of 4 minute drill as if this team can sustain it for an entire season or even an entire game.

 

 

you forgot to ad "forever" after "suggesting".

 

But the reality is that they need to play with a lot more urgency on offense to get in front of teams and "allow the defense to pin it's ears back on the DL and cover"........to paraphrase McD postgame today.

 

The issues with playing faster:

 

1) They don't have to the playmaking personnel that they can just leave on the field in all down and distance situations.   They've added a bunch of spare parts to "hopefully" be better situationally but they don't have enough playmakers that they can just leave on the field for 8-12 plays and trap a defense into favorable looks.    This allows defense's to substitute and match up better and execute their game plan.  Which typically includes slowing/shortening the game and subsequently limiting the Bills scoring opportunities in the process.

 

2) With the injuries on defense they lack the depth they once had to play 15-18 minute defensive halves if the uptempo style isn't speedboating the opponent.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[Niagara Dude]

2 hours ago, GoBills! said:

Is it just me or is the Josh calling plays at the line and forcing the opponent no chance to sub the best route we have to score. I feel like the backyard ball Josh can play with our Wr's is best by keeping the D on the toes. I am done with the shotgun draws for 2-3 yards no one is falling for those. 

 

Let Josh be his own playcaller the way Peyton and others do. I'd rather he improvise at the line vs watching the D prepare for the same vanilla 7 plays.

K-Gun needs to come back.

Yes please,  I was commenting all game the Bills were playing into the Patriots hand playing slow and burning clock.  Patriots had plenty of time to prepare and switch personal because Bills were playing slow and using the whole play clock.

[Dr.Sack]

3 hours ago, GoBills! said:

Is it just me or is the Josh calling plays at the line and forcing the opponent no chance to sub the best route we have to score. I feel like the backyard ball Josh can play with our Wr's is best by keeping the D on the toes. I am done with the shotgun draws for 2-3 yards no one is falling for those. 

 

Let Josh be his own playcaller the way Peyton and others do. I'd rather he improvise at the line vs watching the D prepare for the same vanilla 7 plays.

K-Gun needs to come back.

Great idea. Thurman and Jim need to come to the next practice. 

[GoBills!]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

you forgot to ad "forever" after "suggesting".

 

But the reality is that they need to play with a lot more urgency on offense to get in front of teams and "allow the defense to pin it's ears back on the DL and cover"........to paraphrase McD postgame today.

 

The issues with playing faster:

 

1) They don't have to the playmaking personnel that they can just leave on the field in all down and distance situations.   They've added a bunch of spare parts to "hopefully" be better situationally but they don't have enough playmakers that they can just leave on the field for 8-12 plays and trap a defense into favorable looks.    This allows defense's to substitute and match up better and execute their game plan.  Which typically includes slowing/shortening the game and subsequently limiting the Bills scoring opportunities in the process.

 

2) With the injuries on defense they lack the depth they once had to play 15-18 minute defensive halves if the uptempo style isn't speedboating the opponent.

 

 

 

 

We are a speedy inside guy probably vet away from having a good combo, Kincaid, Diggs, Murray. Murray can block and run, Diggs do his thing and Kincaid catches everything around his space. 

Murray can also block if they feel the blitz would blow up our momentum with a sack.

[Punch]

It never fails. "Bring back the K-Gun" has been the rallying cry for 25 years whenever the Bills' offense falters.

[Lionel Hutz]

I wouldn’t mind if they bring back the red helmets and the jerseys from the 90s.

[BADOLBILZ]

40 minutes ago, GoBills! said:

We are a speedy inside guy probably vet away from having a good combo, Kincaid, Diggs, Murray. Murray can block and run, Diggs do his thing and Kincaid catches everything around his space. 

Murray can also block if they feel the blitz would blow up our momentum with a sack.

 

 

I don't think some slot only inside guy is any kind of answer.    I know they had a good run with peak Beasley in 2020 but they also had John Brown opposite Diggs early in that season when they were REALLY explosive.    In 2021 with Beasley they were inconsistent on offense,  subsequently 6-5 thru 11 games like they probably will be this season........it just wasn't good enough.    What they need is a WR1B.......like many of the top teams have.   Diggs and Kincaid can be great slot options.   

[K-9]

We don’t have a good enough O line, which was the key to our no huddle success with Kelly and Co. We also don’t have the same number of skill players to make it work, either. Outside of Josh and Diggs, we just don't have the K Gun horses. 

[brianthomas]

we just need to play to our strengths, stay disciplined & execute, thats it. We don't need any gimmicks or revolutionary changes. But staying disciplined in & of itself would be a revolutionary change. Being prepared to face each new team each week would be a change, because for some reason we just havent been.

Theres many problems with going into a K-gun offense. 1st off no K. But the biggest issue is being the extra pressure it puts on your defense when you go 3 & out in short fashion & the defense is back on the field again.

They're already dinged up & a liability, seems like a recipe for disaster.

We just need to sustain drives, control the tempo & possession & stay disciplined, we do that we win most games. But our team plays like they dont care until theyre absolutely forced to.

Coach needs to get them to play like the game is on the line from the very 1st snap of the ball. Not just when youre down a couple scores in the 4th qtr imho

[Luka]

I'd just be happy with some tempo once in awhile to capitalize on momentum after a big play.

[AlfaBill]

5 hours ago, GoBills! said:

Is it just me or is the Josh calling plays at the line and forcing the opponent no chance to sub the best route we have to score. I feel like the backyard ball Josh can play with our Wr's is best by keeping the D on the toes. I am done with the shotgun draws for 2-3 yards no one is falling for those. 

 

Let Josh be his own playcaller the way Peyton and others do. I'd rather he improvise at the line vs watching the D prepare for the same vanilla 7 plays.

K-Gun needs to come back.

So you’re saying to essentially cut out the middle man(Dorsey)?

2 hours ago, Punch said:

It never fails. "Bring back the K-Gun" has been the rallying cry for 25 years whenever the Bills' offense falters.

It’s desperation talk for sure 

[Eastport bills]

This is the perfect QB and and offensive personnel to run the no huddle. The problem is Sean is old school, defensive. minded HC, who wants to control the ball and play solid defense. Sadly the team has been decimated by injuries on the defense and now we have to outscore the opposition in high scoring games.

[GoBills!]

2 hours ago, Punch said:

It never fails. "Bring back the K-Gun" has been the rallying cry for 25 years whenever the Bills' offense falters.

Name a more successful offense since that style for our team? Kelly average over 3k yards passing those years in a much more difficult league for Qbs. Not saying do it all the time but why not start hot and jam it down their throat.

[Punch]

44 minutes ago, GoBills! said:

Name a more successful offense since that style for our team? Kelly average over 3k yards passing those years in a much more difficult league for Qbs. Not saying do it all the time but why not start hot and jam it down their throat.

Do you think the NFL game environment has changed since 1990-92? How many Hall of Famers are on the current roster? Has Josh Allen ever called his own plays? 

 

Meanwhile, this Bills offense has shown it can score at will several times over  since 2020. I'd prefer they do what they do best rather than resurrect ancient history. 

[Old Coot]

The K-Gun O line was orders of magnitude better than the Josh-Gun O line.

[Dablitzkrieg]

While this would be great, you can forget about it.  This team sucks because of the head coach and his conservative philosophy.  McD and Dorsey have destroyed this offense and neutered the QB.  Just accept the season is over.  One of the greatest athletes in NFL history and you ***** cutting his balls off.  Unbelievable 

[Boatdrinks]

The K gun and it’s feature of the QB calling a limited package of plays is obsolete in todays NFL. Tempo may be important from time to time , but the recent offensive struggle aren’t about tempo. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just need the hurry up, not the K gun.

 

i think we should bring up Isabella for some speed and put him in the slot

 

 

8 hours ago, GoBills! said:

It seemed that way, I think he has a great grasp on the D and also seeing the match ups. Ball certainly gets spread around more when he is running the hurry up.

 

He also needs to run more .

 

Not as much as before but about half as much.

 

 

Hes neutering himself by taking his scrambling ability away.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

Oh look, the annual Kgun/hurry-up offense thread. It must be October.

[GoBills!]

Diggs seem to elude to the fact that we need a fast pace in his interview, allow josh more time at the line and maybe then Diggs gives him input on coverages and weak spots. 

At least thats what I took from his interview.

[That's No Moon]

One of the absolutes in life, along with death and taxes, is the fact that when any Bills offense is struggling from now until eternity, someone will demand a return to a no-huddle offense and if they are already running one the solution is to run it faster.

[Success]

I'd like to see it - but not all the time.  I think it's something they should mix into games once in awhile.