Suggestions on how to address the Bills sudden offensive struggles?

[FireChans]

38 minutes ago, FireChans said:

In all seriousness, we need a legitimate, intentionally-schemed, slot position player that can run option routes that Josh trusts.

 

It is, by far, the biggest problem going with the offense currently. It was the biggest problem last year as well. We have ZERO players in that role. Part of that may be a lack of talent there. Part of may be an unwillingness of Dorsey's to use.

 

With Diggs and Davis on the boundary, both as deep to intermediate route options, we need a guy running 8-12 yard routes with the freedom to cut up the seam, or curl in on the soft spots in the zone. This offense doesn't have it. They haven't had it since Cole Beasley lost his legs. And Josh desperately needs it.

 

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

Should have said that 😉🤣

 

Im with you though. As far as personnel is concerned it doesn’t take anything special to be successful doing it. Just need to be able to read post-snap leverage. Like I said it already built into the scheme and were already doing it just need one of those guys to built rapport with Allen.

 

We also allow Allen to disregard his progressions whenever he wants if he sees a matchup he likes. It’s frustrating at times because we’ll have guys running wide open but he’ll be staring down Diggs because he likes the matchup there better.

I did lmao.

 

You are right too, though.  The more Diggs-centric our offense gets, Josh actually starts to over-commit to him.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Yeah I know, buoyed by those empty Jaguars stats late in the 4th. 

 

Gabe stinks. 

 

You can defend his pace all you want, he had his worst game of the season tonight, 3 for 21 and a fumble. 

 

2 for 32 against NY, 1 for 35 and a TD against Washington, 3 for 21 tonight. 

 

Half of the games he doesn't show up. 

 

Isn't it obvious that Allen to Diggs is the only reliable thing this offense has? 

 

Knox can't do it. Sherfield can't do it. Harty is a gadget player. Shakir can't do it. 

 

 

 They banked big on Gabe and Knox for the 3rd straight year. We're going to get burned again on it. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, HomeskillitMoorman said:

This team is just really tight now too. I miss when they were having fun and playing loose and relaxed. 

 

Something happened to this team last year and it's just not the same anymore. 

 

Tomorrow WGR will quote DVOA and overall points, and say relax, but 3/6 games now this offense has not shown up and the defense gave them every chance they could. 

[HappyDays]

34 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Players executed the second half. Calls didn’t change in the open field. They were the same concepts we ran in the first.

 

Felt like we went more run heavy in the 2nd half, no? With a few absurd throws from Allen mixed in. Our normal rhythm passing offense did almost nothing positive tonight. Nearly every bright spot on offense came from the run game or Allen making magic happen.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Gotta get Allen to start reading defenses and play calls correctly again because he is struggling 

 

Example that 3rd down at the end of the game, the read needs to be after the play fake check if Knox is open and if he is let it rip in rhythm and on time. If he is covered run, try to get the first but stay in bounds is the top priority

 

How Josh Allen read it, run first see he can't get the first then he came back to a wide open Knox. Problem was by the time got to Knox the ball is now late and off schedule, resulting in a poor throw and a tougher than needed catch to be made by a guy who doesn't have the greatest hands to begin with 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

The current offenses second best pitch is the power run game. 

 

They need to hammer it with Murray more. 

 

I don't see anything else that works in this offense right now besides Allen to Diggs and the power run game. 

 

When the Bills actually line up under Center and just run straight ahead. 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Gotta get Allen to start reading defenses and play calls correctly again because he is struggling 

 

Example that 3rd down at the end of the game, the read needs to be after the play fake check if Knox is open and if he is let it rip in rhythm and on time. If he is covered run, try to get the first but stay in bounds is the top priority

 

How Josh Allen read it, run first see he can't get the first then he came back to a wide open Knox. Problem was by the time got to Knox the ball is now late and off schedule, resulting in a poor throw and a tougher than needed catch to be made by a guy who doesn't have the greatest hands to begin with 

 

That's a designed waggle, imo.

I think Allen has been seeing the field very very well.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

That's a designed waggle, imo.

I think Allen has been seeing the field very very well.

Good point it very well could have been but feel Knox would have been closer to the first down marker to be a potential blocker

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

Edit: 

Please feel free to take any screaming "Fire Him, Cut Him, light his yard on fire!" takes elsewhere.

I will help you with that if necessary.

Welp, that eliminates me....

[Warriorspikes51]

Designed runs outside the hashmarks for Allen to start games. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Seems like teams are taking away big plays with 2 high safeties.  I think we need an upper tier RB and pound teams until they have to bring their safeties up.  Cook ain’t bad but he’s not that dude.  We need a younger more explosive Latavius Murray.  

Or use a FB to lead block for Cook. 

[HoofHearted]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Felt like we went more run heavy in the 2nd half, no? With a few absurd throws from Allen mixed in. Our normal rhythm passing offense did almost nothing positive tonight. Nearly every bright spot on offense came from the run game or Allen making magic happen.

Same calls as first half though was my point. We got into no rhythm first half because we couldn’t sustain drives.

[TheWeatherMan]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I think if Dorsey is more conscientious about not always letting defensive sets dictate to him, that he can call an efficient diversified offense that better suits this team. It feels like he gets in ruts at times and defenders can smell it, which makes things harder on everybody.

Some hard positional coaching from the WR and TE coaches to minimize all the self-inflicted wounds is probably necessary as well.

Thoughts?

 

Edit: 

Please feel free to take any screaming "Fire Him, Cut Him, light his yard on fire!" takes elsewhere.

I will help you with that if necessary.

They can start by getting rid of the shotgun handoff on short yardage and Diggs 1 yard out patterns.  

[Nitro]

First drive sets the tone.  The scripted first drives the past two games lacked execution.  Figure that out and the offense will roll.   when the Bills start slow and they take forever to get it together.

[colin]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

Speaking only of this game…

 

We run the most amount of play action in the NFL and the Giants called our bluff the entire first half.

 

The LB’s we’re not biting on the play-action at all (they weren’t even moving). Thats why the running attack was so successful when we finally ran it (when the linebackers aren’t crashing the gaps, you can run nearly at will).

 

It was a scenario where the Giants were begging us to run the ball but Dorsey didn’t figure it out until the second half.

 

 

 

Dorsey is too slow on the uptake.  he has to learn to adapt better.

 

i don't know that he's worse than dabo tho.  i remember harping on about dabo just like calling random plays, not rhythm and no bread and butter stuff, same w dorsey.

[Xwnyer]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I think if Dorsey is more conscientious about not always letting defensive sets dictate to him, that he can call an efficient diversified offense that better suits this team. It feels like he gets in ruts at times and defenders can smell it, which makes things harder on everybody.

Some hard positional coaching from the WR and TE coaches to minimize all the self-inflicted wounds is probably necessary as well.

Thoughts?

 

Edit: 

Please feel free to take any screaming "Fire Him, Cut Him, light his yard on fire!" takes elsewhere.

I will help you with that if necessary.

he needs to create better pre snap motion and also not having everyone bunched up on the line.  Also if I ever see Edwards in motion again on a play I will scream.  He needs to get Josh under center we run better and allows better play action.   I think he over thinks everything making mountains out of mole hills.

[Donuts and Doritos]

1. Commit to Josh under center, 40-50%. Get rid of the shot gun draw plays. 

 

2. Start emphasizing using receiving options not named Diggs, Davis, Diggs or Diggs. 

 

3. Actually scheme guys open instead of relying on guys to beat their man. More picks and rubs, quick slants wouldn't hurt.

 

4. Start changing up the tempo, no huddle at times to spark something.

 

5. Commit to the run game a little more. You don't always have to pass.

 

6. More situational awareness. When you have a lead run the ball to run clock.

 

7. A few more designed Josh runs.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[NoHuddleKelly12]

6 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Honestly think Daboll just knew what he left here at Buffalo and while Dorsey calls his own game, that knowledge proved invaluable to the Giants in preparing to stop the Bills offense.

Agreed; and the Bills should’ve self scouted enough to know that obvious fact—maybe this would’ve been a good time to inject some never before seen wrinkles, trick plays etc.?

[Not at the table Karlos]

7 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Hire a senior offense assistant to help Dorsey evaluate his playbook.  His playbook likely has a good portion of Daboll's and Daboll clearly understood plays we play.

We have one. Mike Shula. 

1 hour ago, Xwnyer said:

he needs to create better pre snap motion and also not having everyone bunched up on the line.  Also if I ever see Edwards in motion again on a play I will scream.  He needs to get Josh under center we run better and allows better play action.   I think he over thinks everything making mountains out of mole hills.

Part of me was hoping we gave him the ball on a Jet. But then I remembered Dorsey doesn't run them. 

[Punching Bag]

Just now, Not at the table Karlos said:

We have one. Mike Shula. 

 

Clearly it is not enough.  He needs someone to question everything.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

 

That's a designed waggle, imo.

I think Allen has been seeing the field very very well.

He's been better but still misses open guys at times and has a long way to go with anticipation. I think the anticipation is the biggest thing.  Would boost the RAC and most likely get Kincaid going. 

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

Clearly it is not enough.  He needs someone to question everything.  

We have 4 former OCs on the staff not counting Dorsey. Something about too many cooks. 

[What a Tuel]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Agreed; and the Bills should’ve self scouted enough to know that obvious fact—maybe this would’ve been a good time to inject some never before seen wrinkles, trick plays etc.?

 

1st td was something they havent done before I think. 

[Matt_In_NH]

People have forgotten how much the Bills offense struggled with Dabol in his last year....it took all year to get it figured out.  All people do remember is the 2 playoff games when they were clicking at full speed.   16, 6, 15, 10 were all scores the Bills had that year.   The way they got out of it was Allen running.  I think this team is committed to not doing that.  I really think last night was lack of execution.  The fumble and INT in the first half were killers.  They scored on their first two drives in the second half and had the game iced but they failed to execute again. 

 

I really think this team, this offense is evolving and that does not come without challenges.  They will be better for it later in the season IMO.

[SoonerBillsFan]

7 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I think if Dorsey is more conscientious about not always letting defensive sets dictate to him, that he can call an efficient diversified offense that better suits this team. It feels like he gets in ruts at times and defenders can smell it, which makes things harder on everybody.

Some hard positional coaching from the WR and TE coaches to minimize all the self-inflicted wounds is probably necessary as well.

Thoughts?

 

Edit: 

Please feel free to take any screaming "Fire Him, Cut Him, light his yard on fire!" takes elsewhere.

I will help you with that if necessary.

Simon I'm not screaming, ok I was last night but I digress...,  Dorsey has to go for many reasons.  He is terrible in every facet of his job.  He got the job because he had become a best bud of Josh, and Josh felt comfortable with him...and that is exactly why I wouldn't have hired him.

 

2 old sayings come to mind. "Comfort is a wonderful place, but nothing ever grows there". And " comfort is the enemy of progress".

 

Allen needs a coach that will make him uncomfortable for awhile and will make better use of our personnel.   ( See Dalton Kincaid).  So please don't smack me with the supermod wet noodle, but nearly 1.5 years shows I'm right.

[mannc]

Josh Allen running plays have been removed from the playbook…that makes us much easier to defend, especially with only one quality wideout. It seems the team has decided they don’t want Josh to run it anymore, even sneaks. I think that’s a mistake.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

1.  Dorsey needs to adjust a lot quicker to in game issues and quit calling plays that have little if any chance of success.

 

2.  Josh needs to get his head straight and use the entire complement of personnel at his disposal instead of just trying to throw to Diggs.  He did it in the second half finally and we saw the results.

Josh is not throwing to them enough, it has nothing to do with quality.

It’s just odd because all training camp we heard about the magnificent chemistry being built between various new guys and Josh such as Sherfield, Harty (nice to see his TD at least) to say nothing of Kincaid, that had us all wondering how HOF great this slot position would wind up being (not if, just degree of awesomeness), and then when the season starts it’s like last year never ended with no options apart from Diggs? That speaks to Dorsey imho? 🤷🏼‍♂️

[BearNorth]

7 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The current offenses second best pitch is the power run game. 

 

They need to hammer it with Murray more. 

 

I don't see anything else that works in this offense right now besides Allen to Diggs and the power run game. 

 

When the Bills actually line up under Center and just run straight ahead. 

Cook had a pair of 14 yard runs back to back in the second quarter, then we have one play for 3 yards on 1 & 10 and we abandon the run setting up a long miss for Bass.  Thought we had the Gints back on their heels, and then we squander our momentum.

 

[BillsFan130]

8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's a tale of two half's no?  In the first half the O and Allen struggled a great deal.  In the 2nd half they were surgical.  Three possessions and 2 TD's on two very long drives.  A 3rd possession and we just missed a game sealing completion on a nice call & play.

 

Again the defense didn't lay as well as the score indicates. No TO's and they allowed the Giants to go on multiple long drives that while not yielding points took a lot of time off the clock and robbed the O of 2 and probably 3 more possessions.

 

 

You’re right, but even on those TD drives, everything seemed so “hard”.

 

Josh had to make like 3 superman kind of plays just to sustain those drives.

 

This shouldn’t happen against one of the worst defences in the league 

[BearNorth]

17 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

1st td was something they havent done before I think. 

Yeah Harty probably could have walked into the end zone, Diggs and Davis pulled all the DB's toward the middle of the field and they forgot about Harty until it was too late.

[Not at the table Karlos]

I don't have the all22 yet but there was at least 4 times I saw the same route design ran to the same side of the field and the exact same thing happened each time. Receiver 1 runs a 2 yard out and stands at the sideline and receiver 2 runs a curl or something along those lines and stops just inside the numbers about 8 yatds from the other receiver. Every time three defenders were just standing there waiting for it. 

 

It's been happening since Dorsey became OC. We carry coverage to other receivers. Receivers end up at the same points on the field a lot with a bunch of defenders around them. Josh has to run around and finally someone breaks free. It's also rare someone's schemed open quickly. 

[North Buffalo]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

Speaking only of this game…

 

We run the most amount of play action in the NFL and the Giants called our bluff the entire first half.

 

The LB’s we’re not biting on the play-action at all (they weren’t even moving). Thats why the running attack was so successful when we finally ran it (when the linebackers aren’t crashing the gaps, you can run nearly at will).

 

It was a scenario where the Giants were begging us to run the ball but Dorsey didn’t figure it out until the second half.

 

 

And this is my concern with Dorsey's play calling... he needs to switch things up quicker, him and Josh need to be able to id quicker what the D is doing and counter in real time..

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Run game is working. Let's use it.

 

I know Kincaid was out for the game, but Dorsey seems allergic to using him (and Knox for that matter) for anything more than sparingly.

 

Kincaid has gotten free and made catches often when given the chance. I'm mystified as to how he isn't a bigger option with Davis being as lackluster as he's been

[Don Otreply]

Imo, KD is not so good at situational play calling, he is a smart guy, but like so many coaches, he try’s to shove the square peg into a round hole to often, in game adjustments need to happen far quicker than waiting till halftime. 
 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited October 16, 2023 by Don Otreply

[BearNorth]

Figure out what we were doing on the back to back 14 yard runs by Cook, and the 12 yard gash by Murray, rinse and repeat.

[Green Lightning]

8 hours ago, Beast said:

We need someone that can be a reliable target in the seams and over the middle. A slot WR. 
 

We spent a lot of money on one TE and drafted another in the first round and I hoped they would be it but so far, no dice.

 

I’d say make a trade but the Bills seem to have a difficult time incorporating new skill players into their offense so I don’t think that is the answer.

 

 

100% A true slot receiver who gets separation quickly is what is needed. Despite the OP's request not to do this, Dorsey is clueless. His offense is basically get us into 3rd and long and hope Josh bails him out. 

[Motorin']

8 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I think if Dorsey is more conscientious about not always letting defensive sets dictate to him, that he can call an efficient diversified offense that better suits this team. It feels like he gets in ruts at times and defenders can smell it, which makes things harder on everybody.

Some hard positional coaching from the WR and TE coaches to minimize all the self-inflicted wounds is probably necessary as well.

Thoughts?

 

Edit: 

Please feel free to take any screaming "Fire Him, Cut Him, light his yard on fire!" takes elsewhere.

I will help you with that if necessary.

 

I think we saw on consecutive  drives late in the game exactly what was missing against the Jags, and in the first 3 quarters. 

 

This offense runs the ball extremely well from under center, and Josh's ability to throw play action from under center is off the charts. 

 

When the offense went almost exclusively shotgun formation against the Jets, Jags and first three quarters against the Giants the offense couldn't move the ball consistently. 

 

Lining up in shotgun all game allows the defense to pin their ears back and put pressure on the offense. When lines up under center, the offensive line is the one dictating to the defense. 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

8 hours ago, QB Bills said:

I hate that I'm saying this, but they need to run the ball more. Specifically with Murray.

 

The Giants were giving them chunks on the ground but the Bills kept passing. Also, the Bills missed a couple of field goals wide right. Something oddly familiar about this game. (Shivers)

Exactly. Dorsey has abandoned the run game at times. He rediscovered it on that long drive yesterday.

[aristocrat]

We need a legit slot receiver. Jeudy is the only one I know that’s available. We miss the Cole beasely element of the offense

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The way they got out of it was Allen running.  I think this team is committed to not doing that. 

There is definitely something to this. I think the plan is to win the division (maybe even getting the top seed) without Allen running much. Then set him loose in the playoffs. But ...

[finn]

8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's a tale of two half's no?  In the first half the O and Allen struggled a great deal.  In the 2nd half they were surgical.  Three possessions and 2 TD's on two very long drives.  A 3rd possession and we just missed a game sealing completion on a nice call & play.

 

Again the defense didn't lay as well as the score indicates. No TO's and they allowed the Giants to go on multiple long drives that while not yielding points took a lot of time off the clock and robbed the O of 2 and probably 3 more possessions.

 

 

Good observation. In this game, the offense wasn't as bad as it seems, and the defense wasn't as good as it seems.

 

Another plain observation that might cut through the smoke: On offense, Bills have two superstars and a bunch of average players, along with an average OC. We're seeing the results, for better and worse.