Suggestions on how to address the Bills sudden offensive struggles?

[Process]

Eliminate shotgun runs from the playbook.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Seems like teams are taking away big plays with 2 high safeties.  I think we need an upper tier RB and pound teams until they have to bring their safeties up.  Cook ain’t bad but he’s not that dude.  We need a younger more explosive Latavius Murray.  

This is the NFL in the year of our Lord 2023. You need a third dependable receiving option to make teams pay in the middle of the field to punish 2 high safeties. Not ground and pound.

 

Of all the "contenders", we probably have the worst receiving options to take advantage in the middle and guess what, our offense looks the worst out of them all.

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

We do his name is Stefon Diggs, he also plays all the other WR positions as well.

He has to play the boundary because we don't have any other NFL quality boundary WR's.

 

The answer could be, "get another boundary WR so Diggs can be free to move inside," but again, will Dorsey use him like that?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Process said:

Eliminate shotgun runs from the playbook.

Shotgun run is def to set up the shotgun play action although it is absolutely debatable if it’s worth it at all though lol 

[JROC INTEL]

1 minute ago, Process said:

Eliminate shotgun runs from the playbook.

Especially on 2nd and 10. Maybe on 1st after the passing game is going. Don’t intentionally put yourself in 3rd down.

[HoofHearted]

11 minutes ago, FireChans said:

In all seriousness, we need a legitimate, intentionally-schemed, slot position player that can run option routes that Josh trusts.

 

It is, by far, the biggest problem going with the offense currently. It was the biggest problem last year as well. We have ZERO players in that role. Part of that may be a lack of talent there. Part of may be an unwillingness of Dorsey's to use.

 

With Diggs and Davis on the boundary, both as deep to intermediate route options, we need a guy running 8-12 yard routes with the freedom to cut up the seam, or curl in on the soft spots in the zone. This offense doesn't have it. They haven't had it since Cole Beasley lost his legs. And Josh desperately needs it.

On the contrary - a large portion of our passing concepts have route conversions built it. It’s why it takes young guys so long to come along and get comfortable in it.

[FireChans]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

On the contrary - a large portion of our passing concepts have route conversions built it. It’s why it takes young guys so long to come along and get comfortable in it.

On the contrary, we have a slot position player?  Who is it?

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, Process said:

Eliminate shotgun runs from the playbook.

You'd think that would have happened after Harris, but no we ran it again.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

17 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

I hate that I'm saying this, but they need to run the ball more. Specifically with Murray.

 

The Giants were giving them chunks on the ground but the Bills kept passing. Also, the Bills missed a couple of field goals wide right. Something oddly familiar about this game. (Shivers)

I don't disagree with this assertion. 

 

Also, it's very clear that this Coaching staff has Josh terrified to run anymore, and they've taken all those designed plays out of the playbook. 

 

So that's another lever this team had, that has been taken away. 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

On the contrary, we have a slot position player?  Who is it?

 

It's Kincaid when he catches up.

[HoofHearted]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

On the contrary, we have a slot position player?  Who is it?

I was referring to your statement about it needing to be intentionally schemed - not the personnel. The scheme is there.

 

EDIT: Up to this point it’s been Diggs operating it if you want to talk personnel but eventually Harty/Kincaid will need to fill that role depending on what personnel grouping we want to go with.

Edited October 16, 2023 by HoofHearted

[Brand J]

I wish Josh wasn’t so overly reliant on Diggs. He’d rather throw a one yard pass to a well covered Diggs, than sit in the pocket and patiently go through his reads. It’s compromising the offense. At least his reliance worked on the TD pass to Harty; there were like 3 defenders that ran with Diggs, leaving Harty wide open. 

[LABILLBACKER]

21 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The passcatchers we have here can’t even do their job because they’ve gotta chip a pass rusher every route lol I don’t think adding another one is gonna be as effective as people think.  
 

the giants front 7 were absolute animals tonight we need upgrades on the offensive line badly.  I thought we finally figured that out but nope 

 

it doesn’t even matter what plays are called they break down immediately due to pressure 

 

Completely agree. We made an incremental improvement in the oline but worlds away from what is needed.  Spencer is a joke and requires the entire TE room to help him. Dion is starting to get beat. Josh literally has 1.9 seconds on average per pass play.

[Franco_92]

Grind through it, execute better. we were worse than today at least twice in the season we scored 12 TDs on 16 playoff drives

[FireChans]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

I was referring to your statement about it needing to be intentionally schemed - not the personnel. The scheme is there.

Right, it's not schemed for that player because that player doesn't exist on this roster. They didn't exist on the roster last year, either.

 

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

It's Kincaid when he catches up.

Nothing like depending on a rookie to be a critical part of our offensive passing attack. Can't wait til next year when we are waiting for the next rookie to catch up that's trying to replace Gabe.

[loyal2dagame]

Let Allen run again.  

[Simon]

Just now, FireChans said:

Right, it's not schemed for that player because that player doesn't exist on this roster. They didn't exist on the roster last year, either.

 

Nothing like depending on a rookie to be a critical part of our offensive passing attack. Can't wait til next year when we are waiting for the next rookie to catch up that's trying to replace Gabe.

 

I don't expect December's Kincaid to look like September's Kincaid.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I was referring to your statement about it needing to be intentionally schemed - not the personnel. The scheme is there.

 

EDIT: Up to this point it’s been Diggs operating it if you want to talk personnel but eventually Harty/Kincaid will need to fill that role depending on what personnel grouping we want to go with.

Depending on a dude like Harty would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I wish Josh wasn’t so overly reliant on Diggs. He’d rather throw a one yard pass to a well covered Diggs, than sit in the pocket and patiently go through his reads. It’s compromising the offense. At least his reliance worked on the TD pass to Harty; there were like 3 defenders that ran with Diggs, leaving Harty wide open. 

How do you expect him to patiently sit in the pocket in a game like this 😂 there literally was no pocket 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, JayBaller10 said:

I wish Josh wasn’t so overly reliant on Diggs. He’d rather throw a one yard pass to a well covered Diggs, than sit in the pocket and patiently go through his reads. It’s compromising the offense. At least his reliance worked on the TD pass to Harty; there were like 3 defenders that ran with Diggs, leaving Harty wide open. 

Diggs is the only one he trusts. 

 

Gabe fumbled early in the game and cost the Bills. 

 

You're getting what you pay for on this offense:

Diggs 5th who has morphed himself into a Top 10 WR. After that though...

Gabe (4th Rounder), Shakir (5th Rounder), Harty (undrafted), Sherfield (undrafted), Knox (3rd Rounder). 

 

Not a lot of speed, not a lot size. 

 

I put this more on the Front Office. They recognized the need for an elite #1 in 2020, but they've stopped trying to find another elite talent since that point. And Kincaid was always going to be a stretch because Allen has never targeted Tight End. 

 

He wants to throw to vertical WRs, and there aren't any on this team. 

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Right, it's not schemed for that player because that player doesn't exist on this roster. They didn't exist on the roster last year, either.

 

Nothing like depending on a rookie to be a critical part of our offensive passing attack. Can't wait til next year when we are waiting for the next rookie to catch up that's trying to replace Gabe.

Right now that player is Diggs. It’s been Diggs this year and it was Diggs last year.

[Brand J]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

How do you expect him to patiently sit in the pocket in a game like this 😂 there literally was no pocket 

There were a couple passes were the ball came out insanely fast to a well covered Diggs for less than 5 yards despite no defenders around Josh. Let’s not act like it’s a jailbreak every pass. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Simon said:

 

I don't expect December's Kincaid to look like September's Kincaid.

He’s been good honestly imo…then you’ve got more beef on the field to pass block without compromising anything because he’s as sure handed as anybody 

 

I agree I only think he’s gonna get better too 

[FireChans]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

Right now that player is Diggs. It’s been Diggs this year and it was Diggs last year.

Are you intentionally being obtuse?

[HappyDays]

1) We need more creative route combinations. The passing offense is so basic. There is rarely any motion or misdirection. Too much reliance on guys to just win their 1v1s.

 

2) Commit to the run more, especially when the LBs are constantly dropping back. Cook is by far our 2nd best offensive weapon. That's more a comment on the other weapons than on him, but still we might as well use our best options.

 

3) Most importantly IMO is we need an improvement on Davis as WR2. He had one of his patented missing in action games tonight and actually was a net negative for the team. Knox is somehow even less dependable than Davis. Kincaid is an afterthought. Harty/Shakir/Sherfield are JAGs. They have nobody to step up on a play to play basis when defenses take Diggs away. It's a massive handicap.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Right, it's not schemed for that player because that player doesn't exist on this roster. They didn't exist on the roster last year, either.

 

Nothing like depending on a rookie to be a critical part of our offensive passing attack. Can't wait til next year when we are waiting for the next rookie to catch up that's trying to replace Gabe.

If they draft one in the first round, then at least the elite physical traits will be there. 

 

Gabe just doesn't have the hips, the route running, to do anything but run straight. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, JayBaller10 said:

There were a couple passes were the ball came out insanely fast to a well covered Diggs for less than 5 yards despite no defenders around Josh. Let’s not act like it’s a jailbreak every pass. 

Let’s not act like it wasn’t a jailbreak on most of the plays though either 😂that was as dominated in the trenches as we’ve ever been 

 

the quick outs to diggs were to slow down the pressure 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I don't expect December's Kincaid to look like September's Kincaid.

Me neither, but the problem with putting all of those eggs in a rookie's basket, is that neither of us know that's gonna happen.

[WyoAZBillfan]

For all the “Josh will get hurt running” people, they need to shush it. This is a totally different team when he won’t run. So many yards were left on the field. When opposing Ds worry about that he has more doors open and that is the difference. 

[HoofHearted]

Just now, FireChans said:

Are you intentionally being obtuse?

You asked who’s running out option routes from the slot - I provided you the answer. You’re welcome?

[BuffaloRebound]

Offense needs somebody other than Josh and Diggs to rely on.  Doesn’t seem like that guy is currently on the roster unless Kincaid grows up in a hurry.  Knox rarely shows up and Davis has too many games like today.  Not sure who’s available, but we need another guy that defenses actually have to worry about whether that’s a RB or pass catcher.  

[FireChans]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

You asked who’s running out option routes from the slot - I provided you the answer. You’re welcome?

The original point of my post was that we needed an ADDITIONAL option.  Which we haven't had. This year. Or last year.

[Brand J]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Let’s not act like it wasn’t a jailbreak on most of the plays though either 😂that was as dominated in the trenches as we’ve ever been 

My point was he’d rather target Diggs for minimal yardage, despite the coverage and protection, than sit in the pocket and wait for other options. Wonder why the offense isn’t moving as efficiently? 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

For all the “Josh will get hurt running” people, they need to shush it. This is a totally different team when he won’t run. So many yards were left on the field. When opposing Ds worry about that he has more doors open and that is the difference. 

He's been getting whalloped by holding the ball and not taking off. 

 

He got crunched twice tonight. 

 

And he had a run to the left side tonight for 5-yards, where he waited as long as he could, and it was the last thing he wanted to do. 

 

In the old days Josh would have taken off and gotten an easy 15 yards. 

 

That element is gone now due to the constant harping from our coaches. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

41 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane has to get a WR in here. 

 

I don't know if Dorsey can use that player, but they're not going to fire Dorsey, so they need another WR. 

 

We can't keep waiting for Kincaid, waiting for Knox, waiting for Gabe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gabe is on pace for over 1K yards and 13 TD, what do you mean wait for Gabe? 

[Nelius]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He's been getting whalloped by holding the ball and not taking off. 

 

He got crunched twice tonight. 

 

And he had a run to the left side tonight for 5-yards, where he waited as long as he could, and it was the last thing he wanted to do. 

 

In the old days Josh would have taken off and gotten an easy 15 yards. 

 

That element is gone now due to the constant harping from our coaches. 

Josh slipping away like his true unicorn self and covering 20 yards in an eye blink is sorely missing and it sucks 

[Nostradumbass]

23 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Didn’t run a single draw all night.

It’s the RPO delayed run handoff concepts as a whole that suck

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The original point of my post was that we needed an ADDITIONAL option.  Which we haven't had. This year. Or last year.

Should have said that 😉🤣

 

Im with you though. As far as personnel is concerned it doesn’t take anything special to be successful doing it. Just need to be able to read post-snap leverage. Like I said it already built into the scheme and were already doing it just need one of those guys to built rapport with Allen.

 

We also allow Allen to disregard his progressions whenever he wants if he sees a matchup he likes. It’s frustrating at times because we’ll have guys running wide open but he’ll be staring down Diggs because he likes the matchup there better.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

Gabe is on pace for over 1K yards and 13 TD, what do you mean wait for Gabe? 

Yeah I know, buoyed by those empty Jaguars stats late in the 4th. 

 

Gabe stinks. 

 

You can defend his pace all you want, he had his worst game of the season tonight, 3 for 21 and a fumble. 

 

2 for 32 against NY, 1 for 35 and a TD against Washington, 3 for 21 tonight. 

 

Half of the games he doesn't show up. 

 

Isn't it obvious that Allen to Diggs is the only reliable thing this offense has? 

 

Knox can't do it. Sherfield can't do it. Harty is a gadget player. Shakir can't do it. 

 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

This team is just really tight now too. I miss when they were having fun and playing loose and relaxed. 

 

Something happened to this team last year and it's just not the same anymore. 

[HoofHearted]

5 minutes ago, Nostradumbass said:

It’s the RPO delayed run handoff concepts as a whole that suck

Not every run out of shotgun is an RPO, and they don’t all suck. We ran Dart with great success the past two weeks out of gun.