The Official Fire Ken Dorsey Thread

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

It was an easy throw for a HS QB and Josh blew it.  95% Josh, 5% Knox, 0% Dorsey

 

Throwing on the move is inherently not an easy throw. We are just spoiled by Allen's ability to make it look easy. Those sorts of throws are never going to have consistently precise ball placement. So as I said in another thread, you need dependable targets on the other end of those. Knox is not a dependable target. His awkward falling to the ground and letting the ball bounce out of his hands is a typical play for him. Why should he ever be the player we are relying on to ice the game?

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Throwing on the move is inherently not an easy throw. We are just spoiled by Allen's ability to make it look easy. Those sorts of throws are never going to have consistently precise ball placement. So as I said in another thread, you need dependable targets on the other end of those. Knox is not a dependable target. His awkward falling to the ground and letting the ball bounce out of his hands is a typical play for him. Why should he ever be the player we are relying on to ice the game?

 

and considering his wrist is injured, not a good idea 

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Throwing on the move is inherently not an easy throw. We are just spoiled by Allen's ability to make it look easy. Those sorts of throws are never going to have consistently precise ball placement. So as I said in another thread, you need dependable targets on the other end of those. Knox is not a dependable target. His awkward falling to the ground and letting the ball bounce out of his hands is a typical play for him. Why should he ever be the player we are relying on to ice the game?

Lol do you have Rosaries with Josh’s face on every bead?

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

It's not a good throw. 5% Knox is some serious hyperbole though. The dude has 50/50 hands and is seriously overrated based solely on his friendship with Josh. If anything that's on Dorsey for dialing up a play to him when you can't afford a drop. 

Hard to call that “a drop” but you managed.  Congrats.

Edited October 16, 2023 by 4merper4mer

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol do you have Rosaries with Josh’s face on every bead?

 

It was not a good throw, but it hit Knox directly...both hands.  He needs to catch the ball. If he can't, then he should have sat out the game 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[Trogdor]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol do you have Rosaries with Josh’s face on every bead?

Hard to call that “a drop” but you managed.  Congrats.

What would you call a ball in the receiver's hands that he loses when trying to hold onto it? It's not like he never had it and it hit the ground, he lost it when he went to the ground because he has awful hands. Professional players are expected to catch bad passes too. If you bought a Knox jersey just say it. 

[4merper4mer]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

It was not a good throw, but it hit Knox directly...both hands.  He needs to catch the ball. 

Dude he had to lunge and his hands were two inches off the ground.  His hands were available…Josh missed them…..Knox moved them…..”hit him in the hands”.  OMG

 

Look, we won.  Josh played a big part in that.  So did a lot of other people.  We easily could have lost.  If we had, a lot of people would have played a part in that too.  Including Josh.  Clearly Josh is capable of great things, and is tremendously fun to watch.  He also makes mistakes.  When he does half of this board looks to immediately blame Dorsey, McD, Beane, Knox, Spencer Brown, Davis, until recently Tre White, or anyone they can find EXCEPT Josh.  It’s weird.

[BillsFan130]

He’s an alarming stat I just heard on WGR..

 

Bills run 11 personnel the 3rd fewest in the league. BUT… They have the 3rd highest EPA when running it. (So why not do it more..)

 

Bills run 12 personnel the 2nd most in the league. But they are 12th in EPA…

 

It seems like this 2 TE set which they adore for some reason, just simply isn’t as effective as 11 personnel.

 

Josh has always liked throwing to WRs. Go 11 personnel the majority of the time with Kincaid

[Green Lightning]

When the D made the stop on the 4th and 8 with minutes left, everyone I was with was saying endgame. I knew otherwise. I said the Bills would do two telegraphed runs for no yards and Eff up 3rd down and that the game is just as likely to end as a 16-14 L than a 16-9 win. That's because this team and this OC is incapable of closing out tight games. They continually let the other team back in. Really Dorsey, you can scheme up one damn first down to end that debacle of a game? The G-Men with no OL and a B/U QB took the ball some 60 yards to our 1 yard line in a little over a minute with smart play calls. Really, I am tired of Dorsey. He is not the guy to take us to the SB. We are losing yet another year  of Josh's prime. 

[4merper4mer]

4 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

What would you call a ball in the receiver's hands that he loses when trying to hold onto it? It's not like he never had it and it hit the ground, he lost it when he went to the ground because he has awful hands. Professional players are expected to catch bad passes too. If you bought a Knox jersey just say it. 

Lol what would you call a throw with two kids in the yard with no one between them and the ball is thrown at the ground instead of the player?

 

In baseball would this have been a wild pitch or a passed ball?

Edited October 16, 2023 by 4merper4mer

[Sharky7337]

Hes the tremaine edmunds of coordinators.

 

He does just enough for people to defend him, and its not all on him, but we havent had good chemistry consistently since.

 

People will quote rankings how hes good, but he was basically handed a top ranked offense. 

 

The eyes don't lie.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Sharky7337

[MAJBobby]

I will say you just faced a team that knows exactly how you are going to plan to attack him. 
 

with Dorsey Vs Daboll 

 

So that HAS to be accounted for in the first half. 
 

second half whatever Dorsey did as an adjustment it did work just enough to get to 4-2. On to NE. 

[4merper4mer]

3 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

When the D made the stop on the 4th and 8 with minutes left, everyone I was with was saying endgame. I knew otherwise. I said the Bills would do two telegraphed runs for no yards and Eff up 3rd down and that the game is just as likely to end as a 16-14 L than a 16-9 win. That's because this team and this OC is incapable of closing out tight games. They continually let the other team back in. Really Dorsey, you can scheme up one damn first down to end that debacle of a game? The G-Men with no OL and a B/U QB took the ball some 60 yards to our 1 yard line in a little over a minute with smart play calls. Really, I am tired of Dorsey. He is not the guy to take us to the SB. We are losing yet another year  of Josh's prime. 

Oh but he did scheme up a first down didn’t he? Follow the crowd…blame Knox instead of Dorsey….you know who can never be blamed….third rail….be careful…or is it the 17th rail?

Edited October 16, 2023 by 4merper4mer

[T master]

9 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

Guy can’t call a decent offense. We saw it all game that running the ball from under center was working. Why abandon that so quickly. 
 

Heck, Daboll seemed to run the same play 5 times in a row in the second drive of the second half. If it works, keep using it. 
 

Josh in the gun on then 1 inch line is inexcusable. 
 

Ken can’t adjust and has been a bad OC since the second half of the GB game last year. He needs to go ASAP

 

I have to say i'm starting to be pulled to this side of the line the Bills offense has produced much better when under center & every one else sees it but Dorsey i just don't get it !! 

 

I would love to see this offense with Dabol at the helm ...

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, Sharky7337 said:

 

 

The eyes don't lie.

When I watch other teams I complain about how bad the passing game is. I watch a lot of offenses around the league.

 

Thats why I’ve never complained about a Daboll offense or a Ken Dorsey offense. 
 

I also don’t believe the Bills are loaded on offense around the QB like some other offenses. I have few complaints about the results. 
 

One thing I’m noticing the last couple weeks is drops are killing the offense. Timely drops on 3rd downs.
 

 

[Ramza86]

9 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Are we really proposing firing the offensive coordinator mid-season at 4-2 with a top offense?

 

You think throwing a brand new guy in there mid-season will go smoothly?

 

man…

 

What top offense? We played like dog**** offensively against 3 good defenses.

This is not a top offense.

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I will say you just faced a team that knows exactly how you are going to plan to attack him. 
 

with Dorsey Vs Daboll 

 

So that HAS to be accounted for in the first half. 
 

second half whatever Dorsey did as an adjustment it did work just enough to get to 4-2. On to NE. 

This is correct.  If there is blamed to be dished to Dorsey it is in the first half.  Too stubborn to move away from the initial plan.  The second half was pretty good.  One bad play call IMO with the shotgun on 2nd and goal, immediately erased by the pretty play to Harty.  The Bills put themselves in a hole and their best fit was slow methodical run based drives.  Dorsey called those.  The clock chewing meant it was always going to end up close.  
 

Josh mostly executed well as did others.  No one was perfect…..ok maybe Diggs.  Josh’s terrible 3rd down throw prevented the kneel downs.  The OL had a good run blocking game most of the night so I find it hard to chirp about first and second down.  There is probably something in there for Dorsey to do differently too, but the bottom line is he did enough and Josh wrecked it.  

[Big Turk]

Not sure how much of that is on Dorsey.  Allen seems to be having trouble with certain disguised blitz looks and from what I'm seeing, it "appears" he is not setting the protections properly for them leading to quick pressure when the BIlls have enough guys to block them. Not sure if anyone who knows more of the nuances can chime in, but that is what it looks like to my untrained eye...

 

Honestly, last night reminded me a lot of what the Bengals did against in the playoffs us where Allen looked bad for a lot of the game. He is going to need to figure that out sooner rather than later because it's on tape now multiple times.  

Edited October 16, 2023 by Big Turk

[PayDaBill$]

10 minutes ago, T master said:

 

I have to say i'm starting to be pulled to this side of the line the Bills offense has produced much better when under center & every one else sees it but Dorsey i just don't get it !! 

 

I would love to see this offense with Dabol at the helm ...

I wouldn’t we have Dorsey son of Dabs.  This offense needs new blood! It’s Dabs lite right now. No thanks!

[Nuncha]

Dorsey called a great game against the Dolphins then the offense was unwatchable the last two weeks.  Why does it take him so long to make adjustments when what he is calling clearly is not working?  They need to seriously look at replacing him this offseason (no way they fire him).  He's in way over his head.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Nuncha

[Dopey]

9 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

After tonight, screw it, let Josh call the plays. Hell, let Diggs call the plays!! How much worse can they be?

A lot worse. Josh led the league in turnovers the last few years. Stop it. 

 

[RichRiderBills]

What didn't help us is his shotgun runs started to work in the 4th quarter. 

 

Thought the play calling was too easy to defend. Drop backs for high risk throws , poorly executed runs up the middle. 

 

Phins just gashed them outside, why we didn't exploit this or at least explore it was so stubborn.

 

Dorsey wants to win one way, and he cares too much about style points. 

[MasterStrategist]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

To these points..........I find it hard to believe that Dorsey,  who won a National Championship in college playing under center,  is the one totally behind all this shotgun bull####.

 

I think Allen must not be comfortable turning his back to the defense and is driving this remnant of Brian Douchebolls failures.

 

But under center is where he belongs.    He's not going to be Patrick Mahomes out there distributing dimes off-platform to 9 different receivers.   He needs the rhythm, timing and footwork that playing under center provides to elevate his game.    It's not a knock on him.......Tom Brady made a living doing it and he's the GOAT.    Getting under center largely negates the impact of the exotic fronts and that's why they are plowing thru them on the ground and receivers are coming open when they use it.   

This is probably the best description of the situation.  

 

I know we don't want to put any "blame" on Josh, but he's more comfortable in the gun/wants to play recess ball more often than not.

 

Problem this year (not really a problem, but hampering offense), is the coaches have hammered into Josh head to NOT run. And ZERO designed Qb runs.  It's a good long term plan, but it's taking adjustments and removing some big plays from the weekly arsenal.

 

Back to being under center/rhythm. Part of the issue comes back to our #2 WR (Gabe).  Anyone else noticing him coming off the field much more this year in these situations?  He's just not a "timing" WR, he doesn't get into his routes/breaks fast enough.  So we essentially have Diggs, then a bunch of nobodies...which to me is partially why Dorsey is probably reluctant as well.

 

At this point, our best option is to make a trade for a another WR.  If not, it will be the same issues all season. 

 

Other knock on Dorsey is getting more creative...set up a screen for crying out loud, find ways to get Harty the ball in space/reverses, Cook in more passing routes.  Sometimes Josh isn't "seeing" the field well enough. But I've lost hope with Dorsey getting creative, it hasn't happened in almost 2 years.

 

Not to be insensitive, but Dorsey has to have some ADHD.  I know alot of smart ppl that talk just like him/mannerisms.  His playcalling is so sporadic/all over the place.  We all talk about "sugar rush" Josh.  Maybe we need to get Dorsey more calmed down.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by MasterStrategist

[Roundybout]

This clown called three straight identical HB slam plays and then immediately switched to shotgun passes and a punt. Unreal.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

To these points..........I find it hard to believe that Dorsey,  who won a National Championship in college playing under center,  is the one totally behind all this shotgun bull####.

 

I think Allen must not be comfortable turning his back to the defense and is driving this remnant of Brian Douchebolls failures.

 

But under center is where he belongs.    He's not going to be Patrick Mahomes out there distributing dimes off-platform to 9 different receivers.   He needs the rhythm, timing and footwork that playing under center provides to elevate his game.    It's not a knock on him.......Tom Brady made a living doing it and he's the GOAT.    Getting under center largely negates the impact of the exotic fronts and that's why they are plowing thru them on the ground and receivers are coming open when they use it.   

 

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

This is probably the best description of the situation.  

 

I know we don't want to put any "blame" on Josh, but he's more comfortable in the gun/wants to play recess ball more often than not.

 

Problem this year (not really a problem, but hampering offense), is the coaches have hammered into Josh head to NOT run. And ZERO designed Qb runs.  It's a good long term plan, but it's taking adjustments and removing some big plays from the weekly arsenal.

 

Back to being under center/rhythm. Part of the issue comes back to our #2 WR (Gabe).  Anyone else noticing him coming off the field much more this year in these situations?  He's just not a "timing" WR, he doesn't get into his routes/breaks fast enough.  So we essentially have Diggs, then a bunch of nobodies...which to me is partially why Dorsey is probably reluctant as well.

 

At this point, our best option is to make a trade for a another WR.  If not, it will be the same issues all season. 

 

Other knock on Dorsey is getting more creative...set up a screen for crying out loud, find ways to get Harty the ball in space/reverses, Cook in more passing routes.  Sometimes Josh isn't "seeing" the field well enough. But I've lost hope with Dorsey getting creative, it hasn't happened in almost 2 years

 

 

Sal just talked on WGR about asking Dorsey about this on Dorsey's Zoom call last week, and he said Dorsey indicated it's mostly on Josh being far more comfortable in shotgun then under center.

 

Time for Dorsey to get him comfortable. Still no excuse for calling a shotgun draw on the 1 yard line.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I give him credit for the halftime adjustment, but man I do not love him as an OC. 

[Carmel Corn]

1 minute ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I give him credit for the halftime adjustment, but man I do not love him as an OC. 

It's the job of any competent coach to make half-time adjustments, so I am reluctant to give him much credit there.

[Lost]

15 minutes ago, Dopey said:

A lot worse. Josh led the league in turnovers the last few years. Stop it. 

 

 

I'll take Josh leading the league in turnovers and the bills scoring 35pts per game dynamic offense than than the overly predictable checkdown shotgun draw running clown show we've been watching recently.  

 

Its even gotten to the point where they have josh scared to run the ball anymore.

[Fleezoid]

Oh how I long for a Dick Jauron offense..........

 

Wait.......wait...., what the.......?

 

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

It’s also driving me crazy how we are using the TEs. Both super talented guys are averaging like 6-7 YPC. That screams by design. 

[Watkins101]

10 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Are we really proposing firing the offensive coordinator mid-season at 4-2 with a top offense?

 

You think throwing a brand new guy in there mid-season will go smoothly?

 

man…

People are just frustrated after seeing 3 TDs in 2 weeks when they’re used to seeing 30 points a game 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

It's the job of any competent coach to make half-time adjustments, so I am reluctant to give him much credit there.

The offense was much more alive and better mix in the second half. Allen went 11-12 for 2 TDs. 
 

First half I think we ran the ball under 10 times. 

[Lost]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

It’s also driving me crazy how we are using the TEs. Both super talented guys are averaging like 6-7 YPC. That screams by design. 

 

Jury is still out on Kincaid but i would hesitate to call Knox super talented.  He just hasnt been consistent enough with his hands or getting separation.

 

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, Watkins101 said:

People are just frustrated after seeing 3 TDs in 2 weeks when they’re used to seeing 30 points a game 

It’s not that. I think we are worried about seeing multiple consecutive punt drives, multiple identical run plays called consecutively, completely abandoning the run with its working, and not using the other talent that was signed this summer. 

[BananaB]

42 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Dude he had to lunge and his hands were two inches off the ground.  His hands were available…Josh missed them…..Knox moved them…..”hit him in the hands”.  OMG

 

Look, we won.  Josh played a big part in that.  So did a lot of other people.  We easily could have lost.  If we had, a lot of people would have played a part in that too.  Including Josh.  Clearly Josh is capable of great things, and is tremendously fun to watch.  He also makes mistakes.  When he does half of this board looks to immediately blame Dorsey, McD, Beane, Knox, Spencer Brown, Davis, until recently Tre White, or anyone they can find EXCEPT Josh.  It’s weird.

For some reason people think Josh gotta throw every throw perfect for a player to catch it. It was a bad throw but it hit both hands. You see that catch almost once a week around the NFL. 
 

Without Josh this team is screwed. He hides so many problems. Take away any of the rest of the people you listed and Bills will keep winning. Asking a guy to catch a ball that he got two hands on is not asking too much. That’s what they get paid for

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, Lost said:

 

Jury is still out on Kincaid but i would hesitate to call Knox super talented.  He just hasnt been consistent enough with his hands or getting separation.

 

 

 

Knox and Kincaid are super physically talented. Dawson Knox is having a bad year but is one of the best TEs we’ve ever had. Years past he averaged 10-12 YPC. Now he’s at 7. That’s either by design or injury. He sucked last night, he’s also playing with one wrist and was dealing with other injuries all year. I’d like to see them shut him down for a few weeks. 

[In Summary]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Sal just talked on WGR about asking Dorsey about this on Dorsey's Zoom call last week, and he said Dorsey indicated it's mostly on Josh being far more comfortable in shotgun then under center.

 

Time for Dorsey to get him comfortable. Still no excuse for calling a shotgun draw on the 1 yard line.

Dorsey perhaps too much Josh's buddy and less his coach. 

[Ben]

I'm not a huge Dorsey fan either but to be fair we had 2 good looking drives killed by turnovers and 2 missed fgs. The offensive production would have looked very different if we had points off those 4

[Green Lightning]

49 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Oh but he did scheme up a first down didn’t he? Follow the crowd…blame Knox instead of Dorsey….you know who can never be blamed….third rail….be careful…or is it the 17th rail?

He continually puts us  in 3rd and long. That's crap scheming. Banging into the middle of the line with telegraphed runs is not scheming. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

This is a reason why I don’t hate on Dorsey.

 

 

 

[Peter]

It is threads like these why I have not been as active here over the past few years (compared to prior years).

 

Life is too short . . . .