Singular point imo when Josh started regressing

[Pete]

I believe it was late in the 2nd half against the Packers prime time.  Diggs was on tilt pregame, Pack CB got in his head.  Hard hitting game.

 

Josh is attempting to score and gets hit hard by Packers defender.  In live time, I thought Josh got hurt.  Josh jumped up and said “I love this *****!”

 

2nd half against Pack, Josh and the offense sputtered.  Ever since that hit, most everything Bills attempt on offense looks ineffective.  For 2021 and 2022 first 5 games, Josh and the offense have been were on fire.  What happened?

 

I read Jacksonville was playing 2 Top against us in that baffling 9-6 loss 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Pete

[Niagara Bill]

$200,000,000+, attention, press clippings, very very very beautiful ladies, coaching change from respected father figure to buddy, and add a bell ringer or two. Hard to keep growing  when you believe you reached " IT" !

[Captain_Quint]

That was also when he and his girl started having problems. 

 

I think the injuries derailed him, and then the personal stuff has kept him more distracted than in the past. My fear is that he may need another offseason to get back on track. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

If there's two words I could never hear ever again, it'd be "concerned" and "regression."

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

Yeh see his December 18th performance against the Fins to clinch the division where any qb that isn’t him loses that game.

The book on Josh is simple two of his three ints where because he was playing hero ball where in the past he would have scrambled for first downs he    was heaving it into double coverage. 
 

Teams are simply not going to give the bills the home run throw anymore. Even if it means a safety having to play centerfield every snap. This gets Josh frustrated and he doesn’t have the kinda receivers that when he does this can make a contested catch they are little mites out there. 

[GETTOTHE50]

It was when he hurt his elbow vs the jets. He’s still adjusting and Dorsey wont help him.

 

calling 24/7 shotgun deep routes for JA17 is like putting free smack in front of a young Keith richards. He’s gonna take the shot every time. 
 

you need to help him out by establishing a run game and play action before he starts becoming a burn out. 
 

not everyone can live forever like Keith. 

[Xwnyer]

6 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

It was when he hurt his elbow vs the jets. He’s still adjusting and Dorsey wont help him.

 

calling 24/7 shotgun deep routes for JA17 is like putting free smack in front of a young Keith richards. He’s gonna take the shot every time. 
 

you need to help him out by establishing a run game and play action before he starts becoming a burn out. 
 

not everyone can live forever like Keith. 

its hard to run play action when ya dont run the ball at all or take snaps under center.  The only runs that work great out of shotgun are in motion backs getting the ball in motion and sweeps.  The slight delayed draws they tried last week agains that interior line was INSANE and shows why the Dorsey is over his head.

[KDIGGZ]

Need new coaches around him, not yes men who don't want to hurt Joshy's feelings.

 

Tua and Hurts are not as good but they are winning because they run the play as called. Very efficient. Mahomes has the most creative plays and his guys are typically wide open. It starts with good coaching and the discipline to efficiently run the play. When you are running around in chaos then it's not a surprise that the outcome is often chaos!

Edited September 16, 2023 by KDIGGZ

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Yeh see his December 18th performance against the Fins to clinch the division where any qb that isn’t him loses that game.

The book on Josh is simple two of his three ints where because he was playing hero ball where in the past he would have scrambled for first downs he    was heaving it into double coverage. 
 

Teams are simply not going to give the bills the home run throw anymore. Even if it means a safety having to play centerfield every snap. This gets Josh frustrated and he doesn’t have the kinda receivers that when he does this can make a contested catch they are little mites out there. 

 

He was elite that day. That is the only elite performance since that Packer game though. So it is a thing.

[Mr. WEO]

42 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

$200,000,000+, attention, press clippings, very very very beautiful ladies, coaching change from respected father figure to buddy, and add a bell ringer or two. Hard to keep growing  when you believe you reached " IT" !

 

None of this has anything to do with anything of course.

 

The kid will be fine.

[BearNorth]

20 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Tua and Hurts are not as good but they are winning because they run the play as called. Very efficient. Mahomes has the most creative plays and his guys are typically wide open. It starts with good coaching and the discipline to efficiently run the play. When you are running around in chaos then it's not a surprise that the outcome is often chaos!

Tua has Cheetah and Waddle

Hurts has AJ Brown, Devonta Smith and the best O Line in football

Mahomes has Kelce and a top 3 oline and the best offensive mind in football as a head coach.

We have Allen, Diggs [who does not scare defenses like Cheetah, Waddle, Brown, Bengals trio] and an O-line in the BOTTOM third of the league.

[Artful Dodger]

I believe that he's constantly seeking to recreate the incredible dopamine rush he got from throwing all those long touchdown passes in the playoffs against the Patriots and the Chiefs two years ago.  He needs to figure out that that on a hot day or when you're playing against the Jets, a couple of beers can taste pretty good.  You don't always need to hit the hard stuff.

[MiracleAtRich1393]

I'd be interested to see the offense's efficiency out of shotgun vs. under center. Seemed like towards the end of 2021 and into the playoffs with the 9 TDs zero INTs he went under center a lot more and the run game benefitted plus he was lethal on play action. Now we seem to be in shotgun 80%+ and it appears easier to defend. Could be wrong I don't have the data but seems that way on eye test 

[KDIGGZ]

24 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Tua has Cheetah and Waddle

Hurts has AJ Brown, Devonta Smith and the best O Line in football

Mahomes has Kelce and a top 3 oline and the best offensive mind in football as a head coach.

We have Allen, Diggs [who does not scare defenses like Cheetah, Waddle, Brown, Bengals trio] and an O-line in the BOTTOM third of the league.

Yes let's keep passing the blame. It's never Josh's fault right? 

[MPL]

What 2021 season were you watching? That offense was abysmal for multiple games throughout that season... Pittsburgh, Indy, Jax, 1st half of Tampa Bay. Josh threw for 120 yards and 3 boneheaded ints against the Falcons two week before the No Punt Game... And oh yeah, that was all with the beloved Daboll running the Offense. 

Josh is who he is. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by MPL

[McBean]

We gotta all come together and work to get him and Brittany back together.

 

When they started having issues, it’s been down hill ever since.

 

#TeamBritt

[Sherlock Holmes]

15 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Yes let's keep passing the blame. It's never Josh's fault right? 

Correct

[PBF81]

Regressing?

 

How are we measuring this?  

What are the parameters?  

Define "regression" in this context.

 

I'm not sure that it's "regressing."

 

Generally speaking, I'm gonna step out here with the more controversial unpopular take.

 

I blame a poor OL, still with weaknesses, (aka Beane and am overemphasis on D in our drafts) and coaching.  

 

There are understandable reasons for Allen to be insecure in the pocket, which is inconsistent at best, related to both.

 

It stands to reason then that his play is also going to be unpredictable and inconsistent as a direct result.  

 

It's quite possible that he's merely reacting to those things in the ways that he always has as a patterned behavior.  

 

All I know is that the coaching, both Dorsey and McD, perhaps particularly the latter, are both being let of the hook far more than they should be.  

 

I'm not convinced that either knows how to coach Allen effectively much less optimally.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

42 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Tua has Cheetah and Waddle

Hurts has AJ Brown, Devonta Smith and the best O Line in football

Mahomes has Kelce and a top 3 oline and the best offensive mind in football as a head coach.

We have Allen, Diggs [who does not scare defenses like Cheetah, Waddle, Brown, Bengals trio] and an O-line in the BOTTOM third of the league.

 

Diggs does scare defenses like those other guys. There were plays on Monday night where the Jets almost had 3 guys covering him because as soon as he got to the edge of theit zone they were attracted to Steph. 

 

Our OL has been bottom 3rd the last two years. No disagreement there. It didn't play like a bottom 3rd of the league unit on Monday though. 

[PBF81]

56 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

None of this has anything to do with anything of course.

 

The kid will be fine.

 

... with better coaches.  

 

If Allen hadn't come along then McD would have been the next in a string of memories.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by PBF81

[Westside]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

Need new coaches around him, not yes men who don't want to hurt Joshy's feelings.

 

Tua and Hurts are not as good but they are winning because they run the play as called. Very efficient. Mahomes has the most creative plays and his guys are typically wide open. It starts with good coaching and the discipline to efficiently run the play. When you are running around in chaos then it's not a surprise that the outcome is often chaos!

It’s only been one game!!! Good lord people love to over react. 

[Behindenemylines]

Josh had a sh!tty game because his head was elsewhere. Maybe he’s hearing “stop running so much”. Maybe he was worried about Diggs getting targets.  Maybe he just flat out sucked and was trying make a big play to get his mojo.   
 

most likely it was just a crappy day for him.  
 

I mean we all have days that for no reason we flat out suck at our jobs, our hobbies whatever.  
 

it might take a few games to get him back so buckle up. Probably one big play turns him around.  Hopefully sooner than later.  
 

just because he makes Bank and has Hollywood dates doesn’t mean he isn’t human. And I bet the stress of Hero to perceived  Zero doesn’t help. 

 

 

[Airseven]

9 minutes ago, Westside said:

It’s only been one game!!! Good lord people love to over react. 

 
Closer to 12 games.

[Westside]

1 minute ago, Airseven said:

 
Closer to 12 games.

They won 13 games last year! If that’s regression, I’ll take it every year!

[Einstein]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Diggs does scare defenses like those other guys. There were plays on Monday night where the Jets almost had 3 guys covering him because as soon as he got to the edge of theit zone they were attracted to Steph. 

 

Our OL has been bottom 3rd the last two years. No disagreement there. It didn't play like a bottom 3rd of the league unit on Monday though. 

 

One thing I noticed rewatching the game is that even though our o-line played okay, it still wasn’t enough time for our clear-out receivers to keep the Jets defense honest.

 

Part of this is because we simply do not have very fast receivers. Gabe, Diggs and Sherfield all run around a 4.5. Kincaid around 4.7.

 

The longer it takes for the clear out receiver to get vertical, the longer the line has to hold.

If the clear out doesn’t get deep enough, he doesn’t make the safety (or zone CB) hesitate or gravitate toward him, and you get what we got on Monday night. Felt like defenders were everywhere because spacing was thrown off.

 

It feels like we either need to get some faster receivers who can get vertical quicker, or we need a line that can hold even longer.

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If there's two words I could never hear ever again, it'd be "concerned" and "regression."

 

 

You’re not concerned that Allen played abysmal on Monday?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Jay_Fixit said:

You’re not concerned that Allen played abysmal on Monday?

I have way more important things to be concerned about than football 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

One thing I noticed rewatching the game is that even though our o-line played okay, it still wasn’t enough time for our clear-out receivers to keep the Jets defense honest.

 

Part of this is because we simply do not have very fast receivers. Gabe, Diggs and Sherfield all run around a 4.5. Kincaid around 4.7.

 

The longer it takes for the clear out receiver to get vertical, the longer the line has to hold.

If the clear out doesn’t get deep enough, he doesn’t make the safety (or zone CB) hesitate or gravitate toward him, and you get what we got on Monday night. Felt like defenders were everywhere because spacing was thrown off.

 

It feels like we either need to get some faster receivers who can get vertical quicker, or we need a line that can hold even longer.

 

There are lots of plays where our clear oits worked and we had simple chain moving throws there for Josh. He didn't make them.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

It was when he hurt his elbow vs the jets. He’s still adjusting and Dorsey wont help him.

 

calling 24/7 shotgun deep routes for JA17 is like putting free smack in front of a young Keith richards. He’s gonna take the shot every time. 
 

you need to help him out by establishing a run game and play action before he starts becoming a burn out. 
 

not everyone can live forever like Keith. 

Don’t give me this crap that Dorsey won’t help him.  Guys were open.  We all love Josh but he stunk last week.  I’m sure he’ll bounce back but teams are playing them now to stop the deep ball and he needs to be smart and take what’s there.

[Brandon]

I think he had a bad game because he got impatient in the opener against an excellent defense.  It happens.  If it continues over the next few weeks,  then we may have a problem,  but I expect that he'll be fine.  

 

As for the second half of last year, we know he was playing with a throwing arm injury,  so I can generally give him a pass for struggling at times.  

 

 

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Yeh see his December 18th performance against the Fins to clinch the division where any qb that isn’t him loses that game.

The book on Josh is simple two of his three ints where because he was playing hero ball where in the past he would have scrambled for first downs he    was heaving it into double coverage. 
 

Teams are simply not going to give the bills the home run throw anymore. Even if it means a safety having to play centerfield every snap. This gets Josh frustrated and he doesn’t have the kinda receivers that when he does this can make a contested catch they are little mites out there. 

 

I really wanted Beane to find a way to sign Jacobi Meyers this off season. The offense is really missing that always open guy that catches everything thrown at him who knows how to exploit zone. 

 

We're all hoping Kincaid becomes that. But the early returns on the new receivers are not looking great. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I really wanted Beane to find a way to sign Jacobi Meyers this off season. The offense is really missing that always open guy that catches everything thrown at him who knows how to exploit zone. 

 

We're all hoping Kincaid becomes that. But the early returns on the new receivers are not looking great. 

One game where Josh went temporarily insane in the second half.  One game.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Niagara Bill said:

$200,000,000+, attention, press clippings, very very very beautiful ladies, coaching change from respected father figure to buddy, and add a bell ringer or two. Hard to keep growing  when you believe you reached " IT" !

I guess he'll need to come down to earth (mature) before he's ready to rebuild himself. 

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I really wanted Beane to find a way to sign Jacobi Meyers this off season. The offense is really missing that always open guy that catches everything thrown at him who knows how to exploit zone. 

 

We're all hoping Kincaid becomes that. But the early returns on the new receivers are not looking great. 

Sherfield didn't even have a target. Harty didn't wow me with his speed. Kincaid may take some time to get going?

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

Regressing?

 

How are we measuring this?  

What are the parameters?  

Define "regression" in this context.

 

I'm not sure that it's "regressing."

 

Generally speaking, I'm gonna step out here with the more controversial unpopular take.

 

I blame a poor OL, still with weaknesses, (aka Beane and am overemphasis on D in our drafts) and coaching.  

 

There are understandable reasons for Allen to be insecure in the pocket, which is inconsistent at best, related to both.

 

It stands to reason then that his play is also going to be unpredictable and inconsistent as a direct result.  

 

It's quite possible that he's merely reacting to those things in the ways that he always has as a patterned behavior.  

 

All I know is that the coaching, both Dorsey and McD, perhaps particularly the latter, are both being let of the hook far more than they should be.  

 

I'm not convinced that either knows how to coach Allen effectively much less optimally.  

 

 

saying McD and Beane are bums is not as controversial as you make it out to be lmao

[Motorin']

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I guess he'll need to come down to earth (mature) before he's ready to rebuild himself. 

Sherfield didn't even have a target. Harty didn't wow me with his speed. Kincaid may take some time to get going?

 

I think Kincaid is going to grow a lot through the season, and my hope is that he can become a legit #2 target. But I'm not expecting it. 

 

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

One game where Josh went temporarily insane in the second half.  One game.

 

You're right, and few teams will be able to cover like the Jets while generating a tough pass rush. 

 

I'm just saying I didn't see anything from Harty, Sherfield or anyone else not named Diggs that inspired a ton of hope. 

 

I do think the plan is to use Cook a ton, and I think the Jets D is also one of the toughest to run on. I'm also hoping that Cook can be a legit #3 target in the pass game. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

saying McD and Beane are bums is not as controversial as you make it out to be lmao

If the coach with the best franchise winning % is a bum, then we're well and truly ***** 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

I think Kincaid is going to grow a lot through the season, and my hope is that he can become a legit #2 target. But I'm not expecting it. 

 

 

You're right, and few teams will be able to cover like the Jets while generating a tough pass rush. 

 

I'm just saying I didn't see anything from Harty, Sherfield or anyone else not named Diggs that inspired a ton of hope. 

 

I do think the plan is to use Cook a ton, and I think the Jets D is also one of the toughest to run on. I'm also hoping that Cook can be a legit #3 target in the pass game. 

Kincaid had 4 catches.  And Josh will not suck like he did Monday.  Things will come together.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I believe it was late in the 2nd half against the Packers prime time.  Diggs was on tilt pregame, Pack CB got in his head.  Hard hitting game.

 

Josh is attempting to score and gets hit hard by Packers defender.  In live time, I thought Josh got hurt.  Josh jumped up and said “I love this *****!”

 

2nd half against Pack, Josh and the offense sputtered.  Ever since that hit, most everything Bills attempt on offense looks ineffective.  For 2021 and 2022 first 5 games, Josh and the offense have been were on fire.  What happened?

 

I read Jacksonville was playing 2 Top against us in that baffling 9-6 loss 

The numbers don’t support that. He had LESS turnovers the 2nd half of the season. 
 

I think he had a stretch of 3 bad games where he threw 6 picks (it happens) followed by an elbow injury. 

[Green Lightning]

1 hour ago, Westside said:

It’s only been one game!!! Good lord people love to over react. 

32 picks in two years , most of any QB. It isn't one game.

[finn]

Beane and McDermott are blowing it. They have what could be a Hall of Fame QB, and they misusing him. His genius is the deep ball, improvisation, and running. But instead of a) protecting him; b) giving him deep weapons; and c) leveraging his running, which terrifies other teams, they're unilaterally disarming him and the team. The O-line an afterthought; NO top receivers besides Diggs; and no more run plays for him, with scrambling heavily discouraged. 

 

In short, they're collaborating with other teams to neuter this unicorn of a QB, a true generational talent used properly. What a travesty.