The biggest non play Monday night

[Captain Hindsight]

Points was fine there IMO. I would have been ok with either decision. If Josh doesn’t turn it over 4 times, we win that game 13-6

[Billl]

5 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

In that moment he absolutely would not 😂...he wouldn't call a 4-5-2 soft coverage flooding the sidelines and leaving the middle open with 13s  and 3 point lead with the opposing team having all 3 timeouts either

Weird.  He literally kicked a FG on fourth and 2 on consecutive possessions while tied and then up 3 in week 1.  

[Billever76]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Weird.  He literally kicked a FG on fourth and 2 on consecutive possessions while tied and then up 3 in week 1.  

And lost bc of it 😂

[joshhasbighands]

51 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

It's 4th and 2,we have just knocked Rodgers out of the game. The entire stadium was flat and in disbelief what just happened...the MOMENTUM was screaming come and take me....womp womp womp McDermott trots out Tyler bass for a chip shot FG and a 3 point lead...what a gutless Coaching decision

I didn't have a problem in that scenario. These arn't the Chiefs we were playing. It was the Zach Wilson led Jets. McD figured they wouldn't be getting a lot of points and he was right. He just didn't bank on his superstar QB turning the ball over 4 times.

[JerseyBills]

38 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

You take the points. You have zack wilson coming in with a poor offensive line in front of him. Should be a cake walk...................................................................................................................................................................................................

If your QB doesn't have 4 brutal turnovers it is a cake walk

[BillsFan130]

33 minutes ago, ngbills said:

The worse call was declining the penalty and letting Jets kick the 45 yarder. Should have pushed them back 10 and maybe you get a sack or turnover. They were very unlikely to convert a 3 and 25. 

I know everyone was saying accept the penalty.

 

But ok let’s say you do and bring the jets back to the 33.

 

Chances are they run a safe screen that gets 6-10 yards. But… you risk a penalty, miss a tackle that goes for more etc.

 

I personally didn’t have a problem with him declining it and I don’t think it would have made much difference, if any.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

Love the excuses for our ultra conservative coach who lacks killer instinct 

This narrative is objectively incorrect and has been proven so over and over. McDermott is one of the more aggressive coaches and is aligned very closely with the analytics on when to go for it on 4th down.

 

You look very ignorant when you keep spouting this nonsense.

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

Love the excuses for our ultra conservative coach who lacks killer instinct 

Ok well Staley out with the Chargers has this “killer instinct” you’re looking for, how has that worked out for him so far? That guy is definitely on the hot seat this season because of the decisions he makes 

[ngbills]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I know everyone was saying accept the penalty.

 

But ok let’s say you do and bring the jets back to the 33.

 

Chances are they run a safe screen that gets 6-10 yards. But… you risk a penalty, miss a tackle that goes for more etc.

 

I personally didn’t have a problem with him declining it and I don’t think it would have made much difference, if any.

Woud have been 3rd and 23 from the 35. That should be a defenses dream scenario vs a qb like Zach Wilson. I pay money to get that type of scenario. I dont settle on giving them a 43 yard FG. If you are scared of them converting a 3rd and 23 there then you should just fold up shop and call it a day. 

[HOUSE]

This is interesting

[msw2112]

49 minutes ago, ngbills said:

The worse call was declining the penalty and letting Jets kick the 45 yarder. Should have pushed them back 10 and maybe you get a sack or turnover. They were very unlikely to convert a 3 and 25. 

 

At the time, I, at first, thought this was a bad decision.  After thinking about it more, I was OK with it.  Zuerlien has a very strong leg ("Greg the Leg") and can hit from 55.  If the Bills take the penalty and the Jets ran a conservative play, they would have likely gotten a few yards closer, making the kick even a little bit easier.  It's also possible, if the penalty was taken, that the Jets could have completed a long pass downfield (unlikely, but it's happened before), or gotten a pass interference penalty and a 1st down.  So I don't see this as a terrible decision.  It's one that could go either way.

 

I also think that the decision to take the 3 points, as mentioned earlier in this thread, was the correct one.  The Jets have a very good defense.  If it was 4th and 1 or 4th and inches, you go for it.  4th and 2 or 4th and 3 against a good defense, in a game that looks like it will be a defensive battle, and Zach Wilson is the opposing QB, taking the points is the correct move.  The mental boost it gave the Jets for limiting the Bills to a field goal is way less than the mental detriment it would have dealt the Bills if they had gone for it and not made it.  As others have said, this did not cause the Bills to lose the game.  In fact, it contributed to them being in control of the game into the 3rd quarter.  Then the drive-killing turnover machine reared its ugly head and the Bills gifted the game to the Jets.

Edited September 13, 2023 by msw2112

[Scott7975]

Early game, I think the correct call is to take the points. This wasn't a shootout game.  

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, ngbills said:

Woud have been 3rd and 23 from the 35. That should be a defenses dream scenario vs a qb like Zach Wilson. I pay money to get that type of scenario. I dont settle on giving them a 43 yard FG. If you are scared of them converting a 3rd and 23 there then you should just fold up shop and call it a day. 

I know but there’s no way the jets would allow him to go deep.

They would have done a safe call like a screen or a draw to get some/if not all of the yardage back.

And again you’re risking penalty, breece hall breaking one etc.

 

Even if they somehow got 0 yards, 52-53 yards is a chip shot for Zeurlein

 

[Blackbeard]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

It's 4th and 2,we have just knocked Rodgers out of the game. The entire stadium was flat and in disbelief what just happened...the MOMENTUM was screaming come and take me....womp womp womp McDermott trots out Tyler bass for a chip shot FG and a 3 point lead...what a gutless Coaching decision

I thought the same.

 

Why did we get Murray and Harris?

 

Gutless is correct.

[ngbills]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I know but there’s no way the jets would allow him to go deep.

They would have done a safe call like a screen or a draw to get some/if not all of the yardage back.

And again you’re risking penalty, breece hall breaking one etc.

 

Even if they somehow got 0 yards, 52-53 yards is a chip shot for Zeurlein

 

I hear you but...

 

Zeurlein career from 40-50 yards = 83%

Zeurlein career from 50+ = 55%

 

You take that penalty. That is a 28% swing. 

 

If you dont trust your D on a 3 and 23 then what are you doing? You are playing scared. If your playing KC or another O with weapons you consider the it. But not vs a Zach Wilson Jets O. 

[BillnutinHouston]

I wouldn't call it the biggest non-play, but I also didn't agree with that call.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

That was on Dorsey and his cook draw on 2nd and 15 right at Q Williams 😂

Yes, if there is a coaching blunder to point to, this was it. An absolutely horrible play call for the down and distance but also just the situation and importance of the moment. I'm not sure what Dorsey was thinking.

[BobbyC81]

2 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

Hè maybe should have pulled Josh for a bit after 3rd int.  Give him a reality check not pleasant but anyone here think  that would snap Josh out of thinking too much.  The shock would certainly get his attention.

Are you kidding?  Josh was already messed up in the head.  You bench him and then there’s a huge drop in his confidence.

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

I hear you but...

 

Zeurlein career from 40-50 yards = 83%

Zeurlein career from 50+ = 55%

 

You take that penalty. That is a 28% swing. 

 

If you dont trust your D on a 3 and 23 then what are you doing? You are playing scared. If you’re playing KC or another O with weapons you consider the it. But not vs a Zach Wilson Jets O. 

Fair points but I’m just saying it’s probably going to be a wash regardless.

 

Bills aren’t going to Blitz there as they probably are anticipating screen.

 

They would play it a bit conservative and give up some yards.

So what’s really the point?

 

All It takes is one hands to the face penalty on a D lineman and it’s an automatic first down.

 

I don’t think it’s worth it for the sake of saving realistically maybe a few yards?

 

Anyways I do understand your point. We will just have to agree to disagree I think 

 

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, Billever76 said:

It's 4th and 2,we have just knocked Rodgers out of the game. The entire stadium was flat and in disbelief what just happened...the MOMENTUM was screaming come and take me....womp womp womp McDermott trots out Tyler bass for a chip shot FG and a 3 point lead...what a gutless Coaching decision

This is the worst thread on Wednesday night. 
 

The Jets were hanging themselves after the Rodgers injury. All we needed to do was to not give them higher momentum boosts such as:

 

turnovers

4th down stops

 

We win that game 99 out of a hundred times trading FG’s. 

[Freddie's Dead]

That call didn't bother me, get the purnts.  What bothered me was McClappy declining the OPI on 3rd and 13 from the Bills 25.  Gave the Jest a 4th and 13 and Zuerlein boots a 43-yarder.  Take the OPI and make it 3rd and 23.  It's 53 from there, and if you get a sack, etc, you don't give up 3 points.

 

So why does this piss me off so much?  McClappy made the exact same mistake against the Jags in 2021, the infamous 9-6 loss.  He declined a 3rd down penalty and let the Jags kick a 55-yarder that eventually won them the game.  He even admitted after the game that he screwed up by not taking the penalty and he'd make a different decision next time.  Enhhhhh, thank you for playing.  *****in' guy does not learn from his mistakes.  We'll never win the Super Bowl with McD in charge, because he chokes when the game is on the line.

[Utah John]

The biggest non-play was all the times we didn't sack Zach, and he kept upright long enough to throw a good pass to a receiver who'd finally gotten open, over and over.

 

In all the Rodgers hype about how the Jets had their offensive plans disrupted, let's not forget that the Bills D game plan was to contain and stop a less-mobile, older QB who was going to be in a moving pocket and hitting quick passes.  Zach Wilson is a different challenge.  He has a good arm and is good at escaping from pressure.  Regardless of that, though, the Bills D line which was (once again, remember the Bengals playoff game) up against a supposedly inferior O line, only actually sacked the Jets QB a couple of times.  Chasing Wilson out of the pocket was not good enough.  No excuses for the Bills inability to stop Wilson.  

[Returntoglory]

5 hours ago, Draconator said:

Go on the sideline and let's see how the Bills play 

Put me in Coach!

[AuntieEm]

5 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

Hè maybe should have pulled Josh for a bit after 3rd int.  Give him a reality check not pleasant but anyone here think  that would snap Josh out of thinking too much.  The shock would certainly get his attention.

And if nothing else I hope Josh mentioned if he got dinged in head to staff if for no other reason they could check him for any concussion symptoms.  Not even thinking about any game implications  its more player safety as there could be  a argument the spiral in his stats  began at that point. 

 

 

We don't need to hear  'Oh stop with the excuses' because concussions are no joke  and that shaming mentality leads to players not volunteering they saw  stars or whatever their reactions are.  Many players are at different levels of sustaining their next concussion. 

 

 

I'd be curious how well the NFL or really first and foremost the Bills Med Staff tracks each Bills players concussion history.  I mean mitch Morse likely could get one by someone just headslapping him with some force  or when they are in goal line a solid helmet to helmet could put him out for a few months and who knows how much quicker he will have  brain issues  that effect his day to day.

 

 

If it improves player safety I'd be glad that the Jets game as me loss lead to a change in tracking  those forvplayers.  It would allow for each teams staff to monitor more susceptible  players more closely even without a  full speed collision or obvious distress.  And when did that botched  play when Allen stumbled like he just learned to walk occur was it after this possible concussion?

Edited September 14, 2023 by AuntieEm

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

That call didn't bother me, get the purnts.  What bothered me was McClappy declining the OPI on 3rd and 13 from the Bills 25.  Gave the Jest a 4th and 13 and Zuerlein boots a 43-yarder.  Take the OPI and make it 3rd and 23.  It's 53 from there, and if you get a sack, etc, you don't give up 3 points.

 

So why does this piss me off so much?  McClappy made the exact same mistake against the Jags in 2021, the infamous 9-6 loss.  He declined a 3rd down penalty and let the Jags kick a 55-yarder that eventually won them the game.  He even admitted after the game that he screwed up by not taking the penalty and he'd make a different decision next time.  Enhhhhh, thank you for playing.  *****in' guy does not learn from his mistakes.  We'll never win the Super Bowl with McD in charge, because he chokes when the game is on the line.

 

I agree in part with this.  In the Jags game, the penalty would have pushed them outside of FG range (65 yards), so you have to take the penalty.  It was a horrible decision.

 

In the Jets game, even with the penalty yardage, the Jets were still in Zuerlien's range (he has one of the strongest legs in NFL history - he's "Greg the Leg").  By accepting the penalty, it would have given the Jets another down to throw it downfield, potentially getting a long first down or drawing a penalty on the Bills (such as pass interference) which may have given the Jets a first down.  So, in that situation, declining the penalty is not the same.

 

What I think was the worst decision on the day was NOT calling timeout when the Jets were in FG range and the clock was at around 2:40.  It allowed them to bleed an additional 40 seconds off the clock, which left much less time for the Bills when they got the ball back.  When you have the ball, you can stop the clock by going out of bounds or spiking the ball.  When you are on defense, you can't stop the clock, so that's a more appropriate time to use timeouts.  Perhaps the Bills would have had time to score a TD and win the game if they had that additional time to work with, instead of settling for a long FG and OT.

Edited September 14, 2023 by msw2112

[Freddie's Dead]

8 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

I agree in part with this.  In the Jags game, the penalty would have pushed them outside of FG range (65 yards), so you have to take the penalty.  It was a horrible decision.

 

In the Jets game, even with the penalty yardage, the Jets were still in Zuerlien's range (he has one of the strongest legs in NFL history - he's "Greg the Leg").  By accepting the penalty, it would have given the Jets another down to throw it downfield, potentially getting a long first down or drawing a penalty on the Bills (such as pass interference) which may have given the Jets a first down.  So, in that situation, declining the penalty is not the same.

 

The defense was our best unit that night.  Show some faith in your guys, Mr. DC.  I give them the 3rd and 23 without even thinking about it.

[schoolhouserock]

The Jests quickly responded with three points of their own to tie the game. Felt good to have the 3 points in that moment.

[chongli]

5 hours ago, ngbills said:

The worse call was declining the penalty and letting Jets kick the 45 yarder. Should have pushed them back 10 and maybe you get a sack or turnover. They were very unlikely to convert a 3 and 25. 

 

  

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

That call didn't bother me, get the purnts.  What bothered me was McClappy declining the OPI on 3rd and 13 from the Bills 25.  Gave the Jest a 4th and 13 and Zuerlein boots a 43-yarder.  Take the OPI and make it 3rd and 23.  It's 53 from there, and if you get a sack, etc, you don't give up 3 points.

 

You're both probably right, but:

 

1. KC was very unlikely to score to tie the game with 13 seconds left in the 2021 playoffs vs. Buffalo

2. Arizona was very unlikely to score with 11 seconds left against Buffalo, down 30-26 in the 2021 regular season.

3. Minnesota was very unlikely to convert on 4th and 18 against Buffalo last year

 

We all know what happened.

Edited September 14, 2023 by chongli

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

Hè maybe should have pulled Josh for a bit after 3rd int.  Give him a reality check not pleasant but anyone here think  that would snap Josh out of thinking too much.  The shock would certainly get his attention.

it was better here with less of this. 
 

it’s just so disconnected from the real world. 

[billieve420]

Don’t have issue with decision take the points early. No one was expecting Wilson to do anything and he pretty much didn’t. Bills shots themselves in the foot with all the turnovers and giving the Jets extra chances.

[Freddie's Dead]

7 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

  

 

You're both probably right, but:

 

1. KC was very unlikely to score to tie the game with 13 seconds left in the 2021 playoffs vs. Buffalo

2. Arizona was very unlikely to score with 11 seconds left against Buffalo, down 30-26 in the 2021 regular season.

3. Minnesota was very unlikely to convert on 4th and 18 against Buffalo last year

 

We all know what happened.

 

So you just hand Zeurlein a 43-yarder?  No.  You disagree, then:

 

[chongli]

9 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Don’t have issue with decision take the points early. No one was expecting Wilson to do anything and he pretty much didn’t. Bills shots themselves in the foot with all the turnovers and giving the Jets extra chances.

 

1. I actually was excepting Wison to do something against us, given his performance vs. us last year with an inferior offense.

2. Bills shooting themselves in the foot sounds familiar, unfortunately.

 

4 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

So you just hand Zeurlein a 43-yarder?  No.  You disagree, then:

 

 

Haha...love it! You're right...take the penalty. I'm just saying with the Bills luck, the Jests probably convert the 3rd and 23.

Edited September 14, 2023 by chongli

[Bermuda Triangle]

I’m sure that the analytics crowd will kill me for this, but given the way that the game had played out (two impotent offenses, Rodgers out, etc.), I thought that taking the ball to start OT was dumb.

[Chaos]

Spencer Brown's false start to kickoff overtime ruined whatever play would have been called there. 

 

It had been a rough game, but Josh Allen led the offense down the field (overcoming a bogus OPI) to get the tying FG. 
Bills won the toin coss, and the momentum was with the Bills.  Then chucklehead false starts, and everybody from McDermott and Dorsey to everyone on the offense seemed to soil themselves.  And this negative momemtum carried over to the special teams, who asked everyone to hold their beer, as they proceeded to delvier the single worst ending play for any team in the NFL this week. The play was so bad, it could possibly end up being the worst play to end a game for the entire 2023 season. 

[The Wiz]

I see we're still picking apart this game huh?

 

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Billever76 said:

It was the beginning of the game....Rodgers was just taken out...we had drove down the field and had a dagger ready to stab all momentum out of the entire stadium.... McDermott chose a pillow over the dagger

 

 

This is just dumb.

 

I mean, you can kid yourself if you need to. 

 

The facts are that if they'd gone for it they might have succeeded.

 

Or they might have failed.

 

But we had a bad game running the ball and that's often the case against this Jets defense. What they did absolutely was not factually wrong, it just simply was not.. Fair enough to have the opinion it was wrong, but pretending you know better is nonsense.

 

It was very defensible. Especially in an away game against a team that had just lost it's only good QB and looked like it would have a ton of trouble scoring points.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

12 hours ago, MJS said:

In a defensive struggle where your offense is scratching and clawing for every yard? You take the points there. It was the right call.

Especially against Zack Wilson where you don’t need to score much to win. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 

I agree in part with this.  In the Jags game, the penalty would have pushed them outside of FG range (65 yards), so you have to take the penalty.  It was a horrible decision.

 

In the Jets game, even with the penalty yardage, the Jets were still in Zuerlien's range (he has one of the strongest legs in NFL history - he's "Greg the Leg").  By accepting the penalty, it would have given the Jets another down to throw it downfield, potentially getting a long first down or drawing a penalty on the Bills (such as pass interference) which may have given the Jets a first down.  So, in that situation, declining the penalty is not the same.

 

What I think was the worst decision on the day was NOT calling timeout when the Jets were in FG range and the clock was at around 2:40.  It allowed them to bleed an additional 40 seconds off the clock, which left much less time for the Bills when they got the ball back.  When you have the ball, you can stop the clock by going out of bounds or spiking the ball.  When you are on defense, you can't stop the clock, so that's a more appropriate time to use timeouts.  Perhaps the Bills would have had time to score a TD and win the game if they had that additional time to work with, instead of settling for a long FG and OT.

100% agree!!!!!

McD messed up the TO situation. If Jets get another first down game is over no matter when you use the timeouts. So use them before 2 min warning giving you more time to score.

[BearNorth]

18 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

You take the points. You have zack wilson coming in with a poor offensive line in front of him. Should be a cake walk...................................................................................................................................................................................................

Which poor offensive line sprung Breece Hall for 26 and 83 yard runs [127 rushing yards on 10 carries] against our D, coordinated by our HC.

[Ramza86]

7 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Which poor offensive line sprung Breece Hall for 26 and 83 yard runs [127 rushing yards on 10 carries] against our D, coordinated by our HC.

 

Their line sucks....our defense/scheme against the run sucked much more.