Go On Record Now for 2023 Draft:

[boyst]

It seems we have a lot of people weighing in how they knew Basham was never going to pan out. That we should have got Creed Humphey. That Elam is a bust. Etc.

 

Now is your chance to weigh in for historical accuracy. Weigh in on each of the following so you can brag to the rest of the internet in a few years of your marvelous victory!

 

1) Kincaid

2) Torrence

3) Williams

4) Shorter

7) Broeker

7) Austin

 

Any other hot takes on draft spots that were reasonable that the Bills could have acquired? Or other hot takes?

 

1) Kincaid will be in the league a while. Catch 600 yards on average through his career, and will be a valuable addition rounding out any roster he is on adding a downfield target. He has a 6-8 year career ahead of him.

2) Torrence will be a starter for a few years, middle of the road quality. He has a 4-5 year career ahead of him.

3) Williams will be on the roster for a few years, in the NFL no more than 4-5 years. He will contribute on special teams more than defense. He will be considered a reach and bust.

4) Shorter won't pass the depth chart of 4th WR on any roster worth a damn. He will join Shakir of never making a significant impact on an NFL roster.

7) Broeker will be in the league a few years on the practice squad.

7) Austin will be rostered at times because of his position and special teams.

 

Outside of this I think Joey Porter, Jr. will be tremendously overhyped and allowed to play a physical game and get the same treat Travon Diggs - made more famous than he is.

[Buffalo Boy]

Make the HOF bust of Kincaid NOW!!!!

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1) I think that Kincaid will effectively settle into a niche that Cole Beasley managed for about a decade: a reliable 3rd down chain mover, but with the added benefit of being a big body to let him be a red zone threat and get 4-6 TD a year.

2) Torrance will be a solid starter for 4-5 years until he gets too expensive and we let him walk. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Make the HOF bust of Kincaid NOW!!!!

With or without receiving gloves?  It's the only thing that barred Nick O'Leary.

[Wizard]

Kincaid has a long career. He plays 10-12 years with his first 7 years being a notch below the all-pro/legitimate pro bowl player. He is a good #2 and then a valuable backup and mentor his last two years. He will have more TD's and yards than any Bills TE in history. He plays his whole career in Buffalo. He earns a ring with Buffalo.

 

Torrence is a starting guard for the first half of his career. He makes a few pro bowls and is considered above average at his position. Once he hits about 30, his weight becomes an issue, so he becomes a backup but a good technician and ends his career playing for another team. He earns a Super Bowl ring with Buffalo

 

Dorian Williams is a key special teams guy who gets occasional spot starts at LB with the Bills. His second contract is with a 3-4 defense where he plays inside but not the playcaller. He earns a ring with Buffalo.

 

Shorter and Broeker bounce around a bit. Broeker becomes an average backup who rejoins Buffalo after 4-5 years on another team and helps Bills win its 2nd Title in the Josh Allen era.

 

Austin makes a career on special teams and has cups off coffee on  several NFL rosters. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Wizard

[JerseyBills]

Love the top 3. Kincaid and Torrence will have immediate impact and think both could be elite at some point and feel like Williams will be the mlb of the future. Loving this draft

[Coldfronts]

He hit on 1,2 and austin and he is on the ps of another team now

Edited August 31, 2023 by Coldfronts

[Your Brown Eye]

I like Kincaid, think he is as smooth of a catcher and receiver as there is for a rookie. I think his best years will be better than Knox's breakout year a few years back. I think he will become a much more elevated version of Mike Gesieki than he will be a second coming of Kelce (but I hope I'm wrong).

 

Torrence I can see making the Pro Bowl. He seems rock solid as a rookie now, I only expect that he get's better and we will be very happy with that draft pick.

 

Williams I am back and forth with. I have a decent feeling about him. I just hate the staff not wanting to get the kids feet wet. I just hope they have a plan beyond Milano's backup, I think they do, whether it's sliding him or Milano (which I prefer) over to MLB.

 

Everyone else is a crapshoot.

 

Likely we have hit on 2 picks, hopefully 3 but I am going to say we hit on 2.

[oldmanfan]

I think both Kincaid and Torrance will make All Pro teams.  Williams will be a solid starter. The other three will stay on rosters as backups.

[eball]

Randy Moss thinks Shorter will be a HOFer.  😂

 

I like the first three picks a lot.  I think all will earn a 2nd contract with the Bills.  Williams just needs to get a year under his belt.

 

Projecting the career of anyone past the 3rd round is an exercise in futility.

 

Both Austin and Broeker were grabbed by the Texans and signed to their PS.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Sounds fun. I'll play. So in my opinion:

 

1. Kincaid will, I think, struggle to live up to the hype this year. A lot has been made of him so it's almost impossible to achieve what many feel he will. He will still have an impact this year, should land in the 45-55 catch 450-550 yards area and show flashes of what is to come. By the end of his career I believe he will be a yearly vote to the "Pro Bowl" and have some some NFL All Pro teams on his resume. He will see a 2nd contract in Buffalo.

 

2. Torrence will be steady at RG for the Bills for the next 10ish seasons. I do expect some struggles early as he continues to learn the pro game. Deserving of a second contract in Buffalo is what I expect...but the Bills may not pay it depending on cap crunch. He will be a Pro Bowl level RG and make some 2nd team All Pros by year 3. 

 

3. Williams is a guy I like a lot. He has plus instincts and plays with violence. I think he will be consistently good but not great. I believe, however he will have a solid career with a 2nd (short) contract in Buffalo and then bounce around the league as a Kirksey level LB.

 

4. Shorter will have a very Jake Kumerow type career. Latch on as a primary ST guy...possible future ST Captain. This will be the Forum whipping guy by 2025. Those that don't value ST here will call him a bust and beg to have him cut while those that like ST will wax poetic about his true value to the team. He sees a second contract in Buffalo. Offensive production will be in the 15-20 catch a season average unless pressed into more action due to injury to others.

 

The 7s- Not my concern as they are not with the Bills any longer. I do like the potential they have to be solid backups one day...and obviously the Houston Texans agree. I wish them luck and will update this if one or both find their way back to Buffalo one day.

[boyst]

53 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Sounds fun. I'll play. So in my opinion:

 

1. Kincaid will, I think, struggle to live up to the hype this year. A lot has been made of him so it's almost impossible to achieve what many feel he will. He will still have an impact this year, should land in the 45-55 catch 450-550 yards area and show flashes of what is to come. By the end of his career I believe he will be a yearly vote to the "Pro Bowl" and have some some NFL All Pro teams on his resume. He will see a 2nd contract in Buffalo.

 

2. Torrence will be steady at RG for the Bills for the next 10ish seasons. I do expect some struggles early as he continues to learn the pro game. Deserving of a second contract in Buffalo is what I expect...but the Bills may not pay it depending on cap crunch. He will be a Pro Bowl level RG and make some 2nd team All Pros by year 3. 

 

3. Williams is a guy I like a lot. He has plus instincts and plays with violence. I think he will be consistently good but not great. I believe, however he will have a solid career with a 2nd (short) contract in Buffalo and then bounce around the league as a Kirksey level LB.

 

4. Shorter will have a very Jake Kumerow type career. Latch on as a primary ST guy...possible future ST Captain. This will be the Forum whipping guy by 2025. Those that don't value ST here will call him a bust and beg to have him cut while those that like ST will wax poetic about his true value to the team. He sees a second contract in Buffalo. Offensive production will be in the 15-20 catch a season average unless pressed into more action due to injury to others.

 

The 7s- Not my concern as they are not with the Bills any longer. I do like the potential they have to be solid backups one day...and obviously the Houston Texans agree. I wish them luck and will update this if one or both find their way back to Buffalo one day.

williams reminds me of a lesser version of nigel bradham. and a few steps over tank carder.

Edited August 31, 2023 by boyst

[Philo]

9 minutes ago, boyst said:

williams reminds me of a lesser version of nigel bradham. and a few steps over tank carder.

 

Where does he rate on the Tanner Vallejo index?

[boyst]

5 minutes ago, Philo said:

 

Where does he rate on the Tanner Vallejo index?

🌶️🌶️🌶️ Of 🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️

[strive_for_five_guy]

Let’s go you all you Negative Nancies.  Get on record now so you can say I told you so later and ask why Beane isn’t being held accountable.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Shorter has <5% chance of completing a marathon, as did his great great uncle Frank.  Less than 0.005% chance of representing the United States as an Olympic marathon runner.

*
Anyone want to drop that off at a bookie?  I've got $10 to spare.

*
Shorter will score at least 5 touchdowns in 2023 season.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[DCofNC]

In on this:

 

1) Kincaid- marginal rookie year, good by rookie TE standards, 60 catches, 6TDs, 550 yards.  By year 3, breaks 1k, never going to be an elite blocker, but becomes a poor man’s Kelce.

2) Torrence - day one starter, remains an above average, not star level guard, long career barring injury, could be a pro-bowl player with some refinement and a decent T beside him.

3) Williams - this one I struggle with, I believe he will become a good player, BUT I also believe the league is about to shift and the power game will make a big come back, teams have gone smaller and faster, the obvious weakness is to run them over… wish the Bills would get on this train sooner than later.  So, while I believe he can be a good LB, I question if he will ever have a spot on this roster, to that end, I say, good back-up, ST stand out that Bills fans want to see more of, when he gets out there, it won’t be everything they hoped for, think Gabe Northern.

4) Shorter - gone in a year

7) Broeker - might kick around the bottom of the roster of a few teams for a few years.

7) Austin - interesting guy to me, I think he finds a solid back up role somewhere around the league, kind of a Levi Wallace type.

[BuffaloBillyG]

27 minutes ago, boyst said:

williams reminds me of a lesser version of nigel bradham. and a few steps over tank carder.

Yeah, I get that impression when you allude to him basically washing out of the league in 4-5 years. Even if he someh never contributes much on defense he will have a longer career than that just on STs IMO.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Kincaid - I like your description. A 600-yard tight end, with a 6 year career. He's already 23 and will turn 24 in October.

 

Torrence - He becomes the Bills best Offensive Lineman by the end of the year, and has a 10 year career in the league. I can see him as a fringe Pro Bowl Guard once in his career. 

 

Williams - Too small to play in the NFL. Look at the video of him practicing yesterday, his legs are like a basketball player. 

 

Shorter - Washes out of the league quickly. 

 

Austin - I can see him sticking around the league, bouncing around practice squads and being a 6th corner for 4-5 years. 

 

Broeker - Out of the league quickly. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Dalton Kincaid will be in multiple pro bowls. He will go down as the best TE the Bills have ever had. He is THAT good. He never would have gotten past 15 if not for his recovering from injury.

Torrence will be a sold starter for this team

Williams has the talent to be an excellent player should contribute for the duration of the time. 

[stlbills13]

It appears Allen trusts Kincaid. If that is the case, he will have a huge impact. Torrence is going to be really steady. Maybe more so in the running game this year but he will do his job protecting Allen too

[Bangarang]

Hall of Fame careers. All of them.

[CapeBreton]

Seems like this should have been done right after the draft, a lot has changed since then and now.

 

Kincaid - dude is going to be awesome

Torrence - looks like he is going to be a rock for years to come

Williams - could be a solid player for the Bills, great backup to Milano

Shorter - I had some hopes for this guy with his size, speed, hands, but he hasn't shown anything to be on this roster. He's a project but can't see him being around for long.

Broeker - didn't make the team so he's probably a career practice squad player
Austin - didn't make the team so he's probably a career practice squad player

[GunnerBill]

I know you asked me this in another thread yesterday @boyst wasn't ignoring you just finding time to reply. I will start by saying my daily de-briefs after each day of each year of the NFL Draft mean that my thoughts on every player the Bills draft at the point they draft them are recorded for posterity. For example, here is what I said in my 2021 draft day 2 debrief about Boogie Basham:

 

"I haven't been the hugest Boogie Basham guy. I certainly was very strongly against him at #30. At #61 it was still a reach by my board (I had a mid 3rd on him) but I don't hate it. He was an excellent college player at Wake Forest but his production came largely by just overpowering tackles who will not play in the pros. Against superior NFL athletes starting at offensive tackle I worry a bit how he wins. He isn't overpowering Mekhi Becton for example, or Orlando Brown Jr who will be manning the blindside for the team we are all chasing in the AFC. He isn't explosive off the ball and his hand usage and technique need some major refinement. That said can he play the run, set the edge, funnel things inside and even make some tackles for loss in the backfield? Yes, I think he can."

 

My take on the guys this year in summary:

 

Kincaid - I like him. Think he is a very good receiver, very fluid, excellent hands and he should be one of the better receiving tight ends in the league. Don't ask him to block, he can't, and slow the roll slightly on the Kelce comparisons. I see him more as Zach Ertz. A big receiver playing as a slot tight end who will have 6-8 good years in the NFL, a couple of 1,000 yard seasons very possible. 

 

Torrence - Was slightly surprised the Bills took him. Didn't think he was their 'type' in terms of play style though it is hard to be sure exactly what their style is on the OL given they have mixed and matched a fair bit. I also don't love IOL in round two, and I should make that point, but I do think the player represented good value at that spot and given my take on this past draft (I didn't think was a great class all around) I was less bothered by positional value than normally. I think he has had a great pre-season, expect him to be an above average starter as a rookie and down the line he could be a pro bowl level guard. 

 

Williams - Like him. Thought the Bills took him right about where he should go, late 3rd. But I said straight away I think really he is more of an outside guy than a MIKE. That makes projecting him for the Bills long term tricky. I think his best spot is going to be manned by Milano for the foreseeable. But if he finds a way onto the field he will be a good starter. 

 

I didn't have a strong view on Shorter, Austin or Broeker. I really haven't watched much if anything of their college tape and they didn't get the most run in pre-season. I think the history of size and speed types like Shorter who haven't made it in college suddenly making it in the NFL is pretty thin... he'd have to be a bit of a unicorn to turn it around, but I don't totally write him off. The other two got claimed and are no longer Bills. Wish them well. 

[Airseven]

Kincaid will develop into a good, pass-catching TE but will take some time. I have higher hopes for Torrence who could be that decade lynchpin this OL desperately needs. The rest are scrubs.

[RyanC883]

5 hours ago, boyst said:

It seems we have a lot of people weighing in how they knew Basham was never going to pan out. That we should have got Creed Humphey. That Elam is a bust. Etc.

 

Now is your chance to weigh in for historical accuracy. Weigh in on each of the following so you can brag to the rest of the internet in a few years of your marvelous victory!

 

1) Kincaid

2) Torrence

3) Williams

4) Shorter

7) Broeker

7) Austin

 

Any other hot takes on draft spots that were reasonable that the Bills could have acquired? Or other hot takes?

 

1) Kincaid will be in the league a while. Catch 600 yards on average through his career, and will be a valuable addition rounding out any roster he is on adding a downfield target. He has a 6-8 year career ahead of him.

2) Torrence will be a starter for a few years, middle of the road quality. He has a 4-5 year career ahead of him.

3) Williams will be on the roster for a few years, in the NFL no more than 4-5 years. He will contribute on special teams more than defense. He will be considered a reach and bust.

4) Shorter won't pass the depth chart of 4th WR on any roster worth a damn. He will join Shakir of never making a significant impact on an NFL roster.

7) Broeker will be in the league a few years on the practice squad.

7) Austin will be rostered at times because of his position and special teams.

 

Outside of this I think Joey Porter, Jr. will be tremendously overhyped and allowed to play a physical game and get the same treat Travon Diggs - made more famous than he is.

 

I like this, here are mine.  

 

(1) Kincaid: will make multiple pro bowls, not starting this year, but in future years, particularly if we never acquire an actual "slot" receiver.  He will be a great target in the redzone.  

 

(2) Torrence:  long term starter that we may not be able to resign.  Will play near all-pro level.  

 

(3) Williams: I was high on him predraft and still am.  He will be a solid contributor that will likely have 2 contracts here, unless the 2nd is too expensive.  May not be an "all pro", but above average starter.  

 

(4) Shorter.   Unless he figures out route running, etc., he will be a talented guy who never figured out how to play football at a consistently high level.  If he is ready to work, pleasant surprise.  But with the WR room so full, seems unlikely he will get many chances here.  And while he is tall, he won't likely get much RZ work due to Kincaid, Knox, and the RBs.  

 

(7) Career backup with plus starter ability.  Putting him on waivers was a huge error as he was picked up by the Texams.   Apparently he only gave up on pressure in the preseason on 50 snaps, so cutting him is a huge head scratcher (he was one of only 5 players who were drafted that was cut).  He also won the Kent Hull trophy in college.  Given the Texan OL injuries, he may see playing time very soon.  

 

(7) Alex Austin.  Another player claimed by the Texans after being placed on waivers.  This doesn't bother me as much, we have a lot of depth there.  I could see him sticking around as a player for a while due to ST and backup CB ability.  

[Nephilim17]

Kincaid will be a top-5 TE by the end of 2024.

[NewEra]

I think:

 

Kincaid will be a superstar as long as he isn’t the tight end version of Chris Chandler, always hurt. 

 

Torrance will be a solid starter for 6-7 years and will max out around the same level as a Dion Dawkins.  
 

Williams needs the right home/system.  Not sure if Buffalo is that for him.   30% chance he becomes a decent starter.

 

Shorter, Austin-  2-3 years of PS and training camps.

 

Broecker-  I could see him sticking around as depth for a few years, but probably just PS.

 

[MJS]

Kincaid and Torrence will be really good. Williams will be a rotational contributor. The rest will have middling NFL careers.

[wppete]

Wasted picks on Broeker and Austin. Lost both of them to Houston. 

[Cash]

Love the topic!  My dumb takes:

 

1) Kincaid - Good pick.  Possibly great if he hits his ceiling.

2) Torrence - Good pick; will start every year of his rookie deal if he stays healthy

3) Williams - I honestly have no idea.

4) Shorter - Mediocre pick.  Feels like he winds up a core special teamer for a while and maybe has like 1 game where he contributes as a receiver.  But we're getting to the point in the draft where that's a win for the team.

7) Broeker - Good pick, based solely on there being 5 waiver claims for him.  He probably lasts in the NFL through his rookie deal, which is a definite win in the 7th round.

7) Austin - Good pick, based solely on him getting claimed off waivers.  I'm less confident he plays out his whole rookie deal though.

[BigDingus]

6 hours ago, boyst said:

1) Kincaid

2) Torrence

3) Williams

4) Shorter

7) Broeker

7) Austin

 

1) Kincaid - About as productive as Knox, at least while on the Bills (could be great on another team or if Dorsey figures out TE's)

2) Torrence - Solid starter. Similar to Dawkins.

3) Williams - A ghost. As visible as Bernard.

4) Shorter - Decent rookie year after recovery. Will develop into a reliable starter.

7) Broeker - Probably end up being bounced around quite a bit, but will get called up with someone & remain in the league a while

7) Austin - Will become the next Dane Jackson/Christian Benford, eventually starting for the Texans or wherever he ends up

[NewEra]

30 minutes ago, wppete said:

Wasted picks on Broeker and Austin. Lost both of them to Houston. 

That’s all?  🤣 

[frostbitmic]

Kincaid - After Diggs moves on, Kincaid will be Josh' #1 target. He'll earn a big 2nd contract and play for 10+ years all in Buffalo.

 

Torrence will be a stud RG and make some all pro teams. Will also earn and get a big 2nd contract.

 

Williams may very well be the teams 3rd best LB already. Kirksey being the 2nd best. Eventually he'll be a starter opposite Milano, but not this year.

 

Shorter may end up with more ST tackles than receptions. He could become the next Kumerow, Taiwan Jones or Matekevich and make the team strictly as a ST player.

 

Broeker will end up a starter somewhere and have a decent career.

 

Austin - Has potential to be a good player somewhere down the line.

[GoBills808]

and just for references sake here's a stroll down memory lane on how everyone felt about the most important pick in Bills history lol

 

[boyst]

27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

and just for references sake here's a stroll down memory lane on how everyone felt about the most important pick in Bills history lol

 

This will forever be a gem

 

 

@GunnerBill

Posted April 26, 2018

This is a mistake. It will bring down this regime. You can mark this post and you can quote it back to me any time you like in the future if I am wrong. 

 

 

 

I won't be. 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, boyst said:

This will forever be a gem

 

 

@GunnerBill

Posted April 26, 2018

This is a mistake. It will bring down this regime. You can mark this post and you can quote it back to me any time you like in the future if I am wrong. 

 

 

 

I won't be. 

 

Yep. I screwed the pooch on Allen. I still hate his college film. Still even now. I missed on his legs massively and that does stand out on his film... but man I still hate him as a passer at Wyoming. 

 

But again, fair to accuse some of the hindsight game. Not fair to accuse me of it. My opinions are always there for right or for wrong. Don't try to hide them or change them. 

 

I got Josh Allen majorly wrong.

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

and just for references sake here's a stroll down memory lane on how everyone felt about the most important pick in Bills history lol

 

 

I will always wonder how many board member user names have changed since that pick.

Anyone have a cross-reference sheet handy?  LOL.

[FilthyBeast]

Basing this solely on Beane's track record even though it's somewhat ridiculous to guess on these things so early:

 

1) Kincaid - Will be a solid player, likely a few probowls but comparing him to what might be the best TE in the history of the NFL is silly and even Kelce didn't become the force he is until 4 or 5 years into this league and playing with Mahomes.

2) Torrence - I really like what I see from him but Beane has never hit on a 2nd round pick period. With that said I could see a similar trajectory as Kincaid but the 'Beane 2nd round' curse possibly striking in terms of injuries so something that derails a promising career.

3) Williams - I'll say bust because if anything I don't think he fits in here long term once we presumably have a new HC and defensive scheme in next few years and legit NFL DC and HC aren't interested in midget tweaner players.

4) Shorter - Looked good in preseason but similar to 2nd round picks, this team has a history of drafting a bunch of WR in mid to late rounds and not playing them, using them right, etc so probably just an average player that bounces around for a few years.

7) Broeker - Don't care not on team anymore

7) Austin - same as above

[T master]

It sometimes amazes me how the fanexperts know better than those who live, eat, sleep, S**T NFL football & have been employed in it for years .

 

I think Basham will be a good player & with the coaching here could have been above average but due to the log jam of talent at that position Beane had to make a decision of who to keep & who to get something for .

 

From what i heard Beane say on his interview he did to . But given the talent here & the very tough decisions that had to be made he would rather have at least gotten something for him & trade him out of the Bills devision than cut him & get nothing like they did for Edmunds & others .

 

Then there was Beane's humility, saying that decisions such as the one to trade a player like Wyatt Teller and not waiting to see what he has become bothers him more than any of us could know because as he said ultimately all that comes back to him & him alone .