Are we lacking leadership?

[Success]

I saw Broussard say this the other day, responding to Nick Wright's usual deranged lunacy about the Bills.  He couldn't agree w/ some of ol' Nick's ridiculous assessments, but in trying to find some common ground for why Buffalo will never win anything ever at any time, he said that they do lack leadership, from any player, or from McDermott.

 

Personally, I don't fully agree.  I think Allen leads by example, and is a strong personality at the most important position. We've all seen those moments like the end of the 13 seconds game, where he was exhorting the defense on the sideline after our last score, and getting everyone fired up.

 

McDermott - who has my support as a fan - I'm not so sure on.  He seems to be in the weeds a lot, focused on the details. And I think he's a detail guy in general. I'm not sure if he truly LEADS this team, like some of the more legendary HC's who really set the tone, set the boundaries, and were able to create a vision everyone could get behind.

 

Curious what everyone else thinks, and if a "lack of leadership" might be the missing piece that the team needs to figure out, or just develop as they continue to mature.

 

[Augie]

I vote Von for Super Bowl MVP! That NEVER gets old!   

[Chaos]

The only thing this collection of Bills is missing are afc championships and Super Bowl championships.  

[oldmanfan]

I think Hyde is a leader.  Dawkins is as well. Tre.  And Josh is because your QB has to be.  McD is but not in a get in your face way.

[mrags]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I think Hyde is a leader.  Dawkins is as well. Tre.  And Josh is because your QB has to be.  McD is but not in a get in your face way.

🤢 🤮 

[LeGOATski]

I've seen leadership from McD, Josh, Von, Morse, Hyde, Poyer, Diggs at times....

 

How are they measuring this?

[BuffaloBillyG]

We went 13-3 last year in the regular season after this team encountering nothing but tragedy from the Co-owner of the team's health issues to the Tops shooting to the blizzards, missing Christmas morning and Damar plus about 8 other things....that we know of.

 

CLEARLY leadership is an issue with this team.

[Success]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

I've seen leadership from McD, Josh, Von, Morse, Hyde, Poyer, Diggs at times....

 

How are they measuring this?

 

It's a good quesiton - and I do view that show as a bit of a joke, as most sports discussion shows are these days.  

 

But it was something they all seemed to agree on. It just got me thinking - do we have it?  Is it different in KC, or Cincy?  I really don't think so, at least as a significant differentiator.  But the discussion did get me thinking about it, and wondering what the rest of the crew here thought.

 

[BillsPride12]

I think this team has some issues...but leadership isn't one of them.  If you watched the drought years we had plenty of Bills teams that didn't seem to give a S***.  This team cares

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Success said:

 

It's a good quesiton - and I do view that show as a bit of a joke, as most sports discussion shows are these days.  

 

But it was something they all seemed to agree on. It just got me thinking - do we have it?  Is it different in KC, or Cincy?  I really don't think so, at least as a significant differentiator.  But the discussion did get me thinking about it, and wondering what the rest of the crew here thought.

 

I think it feels like we lack something other teams have but that's probably how everyone except KC feels

 

I don't think it's real

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, Success said:

I saw Broussard say this the other day, responding to Nick Wright's usual deranged lunacy about the Bills.  He couldn't agree w/ some of ol' Nick's ridiculous assessments, but in trying to find some common ground for why Buffalo will never win anything ever at any time, he said that they do lack leadership, from any player, or from McDermott.

 

Personally, I don't fully agree.  I think Allen leads by example, and is a strong personality at the most important position. We've all seen those moments like the end of the 13 seconds game, where he was exhorting the defense on the sideline after our last score, and getting everyone fired up.

 

McDermott - who has my support as a fan - I'm not so sure on.  He seems to be in the weeds a lot, focused on the details. And I think he's a detail guy in general. I'm not sure if he truly LEADS this team, like some of the more legendary HC's who really set the tone, set the boundaries, and were able to create a vision everyone could get behind.

 

Curious what everyone else thinks, and if a "lack of leadership" might be the missing piece that the team needs to figure out, or just develop as they continue to mature.

 

I'm growing increasingly concerned that the McD mutiny thing after 13 seconds may still be lingering.

 

Not sure why. Team just has felt off.

[Playoffs?]

All of this BS changes if we win a Super Bowl. Then all of a sudden, Allen is worth the hype, McDermott’s a great coach, the culture in Buffalo is strong, and we have solid leadership. 
 

Until then… 

[maddenboy]

34 minutes ago, Success said:

Personally, I don't fully agree.  I think Allen leads by example, and is a strong personality at the most important position. We've all seen those moments like the end of the 13 seconds game, where he was exhorting the defense on the sideline after our last score, and getting everyone fired up.

 

 

 

i've always thought that this is not leadership.   Leadership is a skill (not a trait you are 'born with').   Leading is a verb.

 

"watch me" is not leadership.   At best it is a template.  "hey guys, this is what it looks like to be good.  so take a picture and get to work on building one of your own"

 

It seems like coach-speak.  Coach says to the players "i know he is not actively teaching you guys.  so just watch him and try to pick up whatever you can"

 

Also, its not what a leader actually says.   Because leaders approach it as a skill to be learned, practiced, and part of the job of winning.  Of doing everything possible to win and improve others.

 

Who says "i lead by example?"  It is usually said by somebody else, as in "dont worry:  he leads by example."

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by maddenboy

[Donuts and Doritos]

They cancelled the Cinci game when their bros nearly died. Not the NFL or Goodell. It was McD & Josh & the team w/ the world watching, saying it's not right to play consequences be damned. That is Leadership. Broussard can shove it!

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[Rocky Landing]

Let’s see… White, Hyde, Peter, Von, Floyd, Morse, Murray, Diggs… uh, oh yeah, Josh Allen. Oh, and we have some coaches, as well. But, yeah, I suppose we could have a few more leaders on the team…

[WhoTom]

47 minutes ago, Success said:

McDermott - who has my support as a fan - I'm not so sure on.  He seems to be in the weeds a lot, focused on the details. And I think he's a detail guy in general. I'm not sure if he truly LEADS this team, like some of the more legendary HC's who really set the tone, set the boundaries, and were able to create a vision everyone could get behind.

 

I think he's established a culture that wasn't there before he came, so in that respect, he is a leader who implemented his vision and got buy-in from the players and the GM. And he knows how to handle the players. He's not an in-your-face Lombardi kind of coach, but that model doesn't really fly anymore. McD gets to know the players and handles each individual in the way that they need to be handled. That's a leader.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a little more "personality" (for lack of a better term) from him on the sidelines, but I know that's not his style. The players do a good job of firing themselves up, though.

Edited August 25, 2023 by WhoTom

[LeGOATski]

37 minutes ago, Success said:

 

It's a good quesiton - and I do view that show as a bit of a joke, as most sports discussion shows are these days.  

 

But it was something they all seemed to agree on. It just got me thinking - do we have it?  Is it different in KC, or Cincy?  I really don't think so, at least as a significant differentiator.  But the discussion did get me thinking about it, and wondering what the rest of the crew here thought.

 

Nope. Every single team has leaders....and guys with an interesting back story... And ongoing struggles....and funny guys.....and troublemakers.....

 

Just think about any team that makes the playoffs. The media can always focus on some great story or rah rah personality. Every team has them.

 

Every single team. The only thing that makes the difference is talent and clutch execution.

[78thealltimegreat]

Look Josh is a firey guy with his play but he also loves his teammates too much to call them out and criticize them.

Every team needs that guy who gets in players faces when they just aren’t playing well.

The Bills honestly really don’t kinda have that. 
And it shouldn’t have to be all on Josh he’s the freaking team. 
Get Steff Diggs to start calling out some these guys on the sidelines he seems like a good candidate. 

[thenorthremembers]

No, leadership probably gets the talent on this team further than it should.  McDermott is a Mark Batterson disciple, his whole shtick centers around being a great leader of men.   Say what you want about McDermott, but he is a great leader.  I think he gives more thought about that aspect in one day than most of us do in a lifetime.

 

Josh Allen, Stef Diggs, Mitch Morse, Micah Hyde, Tre White, Jordan Poyer, Dawson Knox, Dion Dawkins- I think there is plenty of leadership in the Bills locker room. 

 

Its pretty simple.  The Bills dont lack leadership.  The Bills lack Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes.   I honestly believe the Bills would have a Lombardi by now if it wasnt for those two.

 

 

[Ya Digg?]

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Look Josh is a firey guy with his play but he also loves his teammates too much to call them out and criticize them.

Every team needs that guy who gets in players faces when they just aren’t playing well.

The Bills honestly really don’t kinda have that. 
And it shouldn’t have to be all on Josh he’s the freaking team. 
Get Steff Diggs to start calling out some these guys on the sidelines he seems like a good candidate. 

I have an issue with the bolded part. First, you have no idea if Josh criticizes players behind closed doors-he doesn’t need to make a spectacle of it in front of the world during a game. Which leads to the second part-immature children throw tantrums on the sidelines at their teammates. I don’t understand why so many people think you have to embarrass your teammates on the sidelines in order to be seen as a good leader 

[WyoAZBillfan]

I think this team lacks the bruiser mentality. Soft in the trenches and on D only a few really light up the ball carrier. Leadership isn’t an issue. The Cinci-cancel game and honestly the Tampa near come back game showed leadership. Mostly lack physicality IMO, like a hesitation to go in for the kill mentality. 

[NewEra]

As if Broussard has any clue

Edited August 25, 2023 by NewEra

[Chaos]

People like to dispute facts that don't make them happy. Since Madden/Stabler won the Super Bowl champs have had one of four conditions:

1) Coaching change within the most recent 4 years,

2) QB change within the most recent 4 years

3) Coach has won the superbowl before
4) QB has won the superbowl before

The 2023 Bills do not meet any of the four conditions. People will argue its only 50 data points and you can't draw a statistical conclusion.  But the entire NFL betting industry is fueled by people analyzing similar or smaller data sets. 

What the Bills are trying to do is to be "the first".  I am old.  I want the 2023 Bills to be the team that is the first one to break the streak. But I am not holding my breath.  31 other fan bases want their teams to win too.  
 

[newcam2012]

44 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

I think he's established a culture that wasn't there before he came, so in that respect, he is a leader who implemented his vision and got buy-in from the players and the GM. And he knows how to handle the players. He's not an in-your-face Lombardi kind of coach, but that model doesn't really fly anymore. McD gets to know the players and handles each individual in the way that they need to be handled. That's a leader.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a little more "personality" (for lack of a better term) from him on the sidelines, but I know that's not his style. The players do a good job of firing themselves up, though.

There's no better leader and coach for the Buffalo Bills than McD. 

 

He's a class act, a winner, a religious man, a great coach, teacher of life, etc...

 

He built a winner and a class organization in Buffalo for 6 years. The Bills are fortunate to have such a man. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by newcam2012

[Buffalo_Stampede]

No yes.

[newcam2012]

21 minutes ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

I think this team lacks the bruiser mentality. Soft in the trenches and on D only a few really light up the ball carrier. Leadership isn’t an issue. The Cinci-cancel game and honestly the Tampa near come back game showed leadership. Mostly lack physicality IMO, like a hesitation to go in for the kill mentality. 

The Bills have primarily been a finesse team than physical. 

 

But now the Bills have Torrence a mountain of a man. Not so soft anymore. 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

There's no better leader and coach for the Buffalo Bills than McD. 

 

He's a class act, a winner, a religious man, a great coach, teacher of life, etc...

 

He built a winner and a class organization in Buffalo for 6 years. The Bills are fortunate to have such a man. 

I had no idea you felt that way.  👍🏻 

 

personally, I really like him hope he can win one for us.  That said, If next season ends like last season (especially if we’re healthier), I’d be happy if we moved on from him and hired an offensive Hc like your boy Ben Johnson.  

I’d like to give Josh a consistent offense from the same mind.  Continuity.  Having a defensive HC puts us in a situation where Josh may have a different OC/play caller/system every year or 2-3 due to them being hired as HCs or fired.  I don’t like that

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by NewEra

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

1 hour ago, Success said:

I saw Broussard say this the other day, responding to Nick Wright's usual deranged lunacy about the Bills.  He couldn't agree w/ some of ol' Nick's ridiculous assessments, but in trying to find some common ground for why Buffalo will never win anything ever at any time, he said that they do lack leadership, from any player, or from McDermott.

 

Personally, I don't fully agree.  I think Allen leads by example, and is a strong personality at the most important position. We've all seen those moments like the end of the 13 seconds game, where he was exhorting the defense on the sideline after our last score, and getting everyone fired up.

 

McDermott - who has my support as a fan - I'm not so sure on.  He seems to be in the weeds a lot, focused on the details. And I think he's a detail guy in general. I'm not sure if he truly LEADS this team, like some of the more legendary HC's who really set the tone, set the boundaries, and were able to create a vision everyone could get behind.

 

Curious what everyone else thinks, and if a "lack of leadership" might be the missing piece that the team needs to figure out, or just develop as they continue to mature.

 

 

Von Miller, Josh Allen, Jordan Poyer, Micah Hyde, Mitch Morse, Matt Milano, Dion Dawkins, Tradavious White, McDermott, pretty much a leader at every position it's laughable to say there aren't enough leaders. 

[TheBrownBear]

You don't win three straight division titles without buy in.  You don't get players buying in without leadership. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by TheBrownBear

[Goin Breakdown]

I think we have a bunch of dudes who support each other, hype each other up, and challenge one another. Does that make them leaders? Idk. Who is anyone to say that is not in that locker room?

[Simon]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I had no idea you felt that way.

 

Yesterday he accused McDermott of using Frazier as the scapegoat, said he can't hide any more and said it was time for him to put up or shut up. 

 

[newcam2012]

13 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I had no idea you felt that way.  👍🏻 

 

personally, I really like him hope he can win one for us.  That said, If next season ends like last season (especially if we’re healthier), I’d be happy if we moved on from him and hired an offensive Hc like your boy Ben Johnson.  

I’d like to give Josh a consistent offense from the same mind.  Continuity.  Having a defensive HC puts us in a situation where Josh may have a different OC/play caller/system every year or 2-3 due to them being hired as HCs or fired.  I don’t like that

 

I feel that way but I also think his time has pretty much ended here. 

 

The guy is a class act and has Buffalo built in his bones sort of speak. He's more than a football coach. 

 

He built a great team and culture. Football has been enjoyable since his arrival. He deserves lots of credit. 

 

However, all good things come to an end. I think he's sort of lost his spark, his effectiveness, and not sure he can get the team further. I'd rather get some new blood in the building like Ben Johnson. 

 

No disrespect to McD. How can you dislike the guy? Still pissed about 13 seconds but it doesn't negate all the good. 

 

Hope that makes sense.

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I think Hyde is a leader.  Dawkins is as well. Tre.  And Josh is because your QB has to be.  McD is but not in a get in your face way.

Dawkins is no leader, you show up out of shape and  not ready to go play and practice fo season then you aren't a leader.

 

 

 

 

 

[Augie]

28 minutes ago, Chaos said:

People like to dispute facts that don't make them happy. Since Madden/Stabler won the Super Bowl champs have had one of four conditions:

1) Coaching change within the most recent 4 years,

2) QB change within the most recent 4 years

3) Coach has won the superbowl before
4) QB has won the superbowl before

The 2023 Bills do not meet any of the four conditions. People will argue its only 50 data points and you can't draw a statistical conclusion.  But the entire NFL betting industry is fueled by people analyzing similar or smaller data sets. 

What the Bills are trying to do is to be "the first".  I am old.  I want the 2023 Bills to be the team that is the first one to break the streak. But I am not holding my breath.  31 other fan bases want their teams to win too.  
 

 

You are confusing “facts” with “stuff”. 

[78thealltimegreat]

55 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

I have an issue with the bolded part. First, you have no idea if Josh criticizes players behind closed doors-he doesn’t need to make a spectacle of it in front of the world during a game. Which leads to the second part-immature children throw tantrums on the sidelines at their teammates. I don’t understand why so many people think you have to embarrass your teammates on the sidelines in order to be seen as a good leader 

If Josh was getting in teammates faces you would have heard from an ex teammate by now that he was. He’s just not wired like that. 

[newcam2012]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Yesterday he accused McDermott of using Frazier as the scapegoat, said he can't hide any more and said it was time for him to put up or shut up. 

I did say that. We all have ways to protect ourselves. McD never threw Fraizer under the bus. It was very subtle how he shielded himself from criticism. 

 

Now he's the DC and he removed the shield sort of speak. I believe he knows the urgency to advance further. He's banking on himself. You can't hate that. 

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I feel that way but I also think his time has pretty much ended here. 

 

The guy is a class act and has Buffalo built in his bones sort of speak. He's more than a football coach. 

 

He built a great team and culture. Football has been enjoyable since his arrival. He deserves lots of credit. 

 

However, all good things come to an end. I think he's sort of lost his spark, his effectiveness, and not sure he can get the team further. I'd rather get some new blood in the building like Ben Johnson. 

 

No disrespect to McD. How can you dislike the guy? Still pissed about 13 seconds but it doesn't negate all the good. 

 

Hope that makes sense.

I hear ya.  That could be the case if our season ends in a bad way.  I don’t think he’s lost his way…..yet, but if the D stinks, he might hit the bricks.  I think he has more pressure on him than any HC in the league imo.  It’s a pivotal season. If we come up short this year, at best, he’ll be on an extremely hot seat in the 24

 

the extension to him and Beane begs to differ with my opinion on that but I stand by if the D sucks, this could be his last year.  

Edited August 25, 2023 by NewEra

[Dr.Sack]

Benford, Elam & Bernard are good young leaders on defense.

 

Cook, Kincaid and Torrence on offense. 

[stinky finger]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I think Hyde is a leader.  Dawkins is as well. Tre.  And Josh is because your QB has to be.  McD is but not in a get in your face way.

 

Dawkins? hmmmm.....don't you need to be in the top half at your position?

 

He's our M.L. Carr. 

 

 

[Andy1]

53 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The Bills have primarily been a finesse team than physical. 

 

But now the Bills have Torrence a mountain of a man. Not so soft anymore. 

Yes. The Cinci playoff game showed this weakness of the team. Bean tried to address this  by getting bigger through the draft and free agency. Hopefully it pays off this year.