Khalil Shakir vs. Justin Shorter

[Beast]

One picked at 148 overall and the other picked at 150 overall the following year.

 

Please tell me why the guy drafted 2 picks before the year prior is so much more valuable to the team because I just don’t see it.

 

in fact, I see 150 and a former 2nd rounder being more valuable to this team.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Beast

[Aussie Joe]

I’m starting to suspect you aren’t a fan of Shakir

[JaCrispy]

Andy! Andy! Andy!

[ToGoGo]

Shakir is the disflavor of the month. 

[Beast]

5 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I’m starting to suspect you aren’t a fan of Shakir

No, I’m just being honest. What’s the deal with all the love for Shakir? What makes him better than Shorter or Isabella? I just don’t see the greatness in Shakir that others are claiming. He seems like a lackadaisical player to me. Makes a great play or two and then drops a pass and then let’s a smaller DB shove his ass out of bounds that leads to an INT.

 

To me he’s JAG.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Beast

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

No, I’m just being honest. What’s the deal with all the love for Shakir? What makes him better than Shorter or Isabella? I just don’t see the greatness in Shakir that others are claiming. He seems like a lackadaisical player to me. Makes a great play or two and then drops a pass and then let’s a smaller DB shove his ass out of bounds that leads to an INT.

 

To me he’s JAG.

 

 

I don’t think I’m seeing the same “love” for him as you are… I think more than a few are disappointed with him following expectations 12 months ago…

 

Im happy not to have a dog in this fight to be honest… compared to some other issues  I have….I just hope whatever way they go it works out for the best

[NickelCity]

Baffling how people are this down on Shakir. He's flashed enough to make the bottom of the roster. Am I high on him? Not particularly, but it's a stretch to think there's a receiver below him who has shown enough to not just make the roster in addition to Shakir, but to supplant him entirely. 

 

I think we keep 6 WRs, and Isabella makes it over shorter. Diggs Davis Harty Sherfield Shakir are safe.

Edited August 20, 2023 by NickelCity

[Warcodered]

Just now, NickelCity said:

Baffling how people are this down on Shakir. He's flashed enough to make the bottom of the roster you weirdos. 

 

I think we keep 6 WRs, and Isabella makes it over shorter. Diggs Davis Harty Sherfield Shakir are safe.

I mean I remember we all liked his potential and camp reports last year and he flashed in the preseason games last year. Is he still flashing that much in the games this year? Like what'd he do today?

[SCBills]

Shakir’s hype is due to the belief that we got a “steal” in the draft.  
 

Deep WR draft and a guy who projected as a RD3 pick, dropped to RD5.  
 

It was lauded universally as a home run of a pick.   Analysts saying they can’t believe the league let Shakir drop to Josh Allen. 
 

Reality is he’s … ok.  He’s an intriguing player, but is his upside really that high?  WR3 caliber player most likely… maybeeee WR2 is he truly hits his stride. 
 

He’s also undersized, small arms and is inconsistent with drops.  
 

He shouldn’t be a roster lock imo.. but we also can’t be flippant about quality players on cheap multi-year contracts. 

[DCofNC]

I don’t see a reason to keep either.

[NickelCity]

Just now, Warcodered said:

I mean I remember we all liked his potential and camp reports last year and he flashed in the preseason games last year. Is he still flashing that much in the games this year? Like what'd he do today?

 

I admit I was not thinking about today's game. I was thinking a body of work. Am I super high on him? No, but I think he's done enough to be seen as firmly included on the bottom of the roster. 

[Beast]

4 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

Baffling how people are this down on Shakir. He's flashed enough to make the bottom of the roster you weirdos. 

 

I think we keep 6 WRs, and Isabella makes it over shorter. Diggs Davis Harty Sherfield Shakir are safe.

Isabella very well make it over Shorter.

 

But why would Shakir make it over Shorter?

[BigAl2526]

The odds are decent that both Shakir and Shorter will make the team.  Since they are different types of receivers, I suspect playing time might be more dependent on situations as opposed to one being clearly better than the other.  Interestingly, one of the pluses with Shorter coming out of college was his run after the catch ability.  Tonight, he showed none of that, but that might have been more on the QB than on Shorter.  If you're digging the pass out of the turf, your not going to get yards after the catch.

[NickelCity]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

Isabella very well make it over Shorter.

 

But why would Shakir make it over Shorter?

 

What has Shorter done to supplant Shakir? I like his reported work ethic but I haven't heard or seen many flashes. Struggled with separation in the (too few) amount of snaps I've been able to watch.

[buffblue]

38 minutes ago, Beast said:

One picked at 148 overall and the other picked at 150 overall the following year.

 

Please tell me why the guy drafted 2 picks before the year prior is so much more valuable to the team because I just don’t see it.

 

in fact, I see 150 and a former 2nd rounder being more valuable to this team.

Half agree. Isabella should stay, but Shorter has almost zero chance of ever becoming a contributor imo

[BillsFanForever19]

25 minutes ago, Beast said:

No, I’m just being honest. What’s the deal with all the love for Shakir? What makes him better than Shorter or Isabella? I just don’t see the greatness in Shakir that others are claiming. He seems like a lackadaisical player to me. Makes a great play or two and then drops a pass and then let’s a smaller DB shove his ass out of bounds that leads to an INT.

 

To me he’s JAG.

 

He made these plays last season with minimal reps as a Rookie that they spent a high 5th on and another pick to trade up and grab him.

 

 

That's what makes him safe. Shorter and Isabella will probably be here as well. We kept 7 WR's to start last season after the Pre-Season and I'd expect the same here. 

 

But as I said, the bottom line is the team values him, his growth, and the investment he made. Even with the bad drop in the last game, he made two tough catches before that happened.

 

A guy running with the 1's and 2's exclusively isn't all of a sudden going to be cut because of a play or two in the Pre-Season.

[The Jokeman]

49 minutes ago, Beast said:

One picked at 148 overall and the other picked at 150 overall the following year.

 

Please tell me why the guy drafted 2 picks before the year prior is so much more valuable to the team because I just don’t see it.

 

in fact, I see 150 and a former 2nd rounder being more valuable to this team.

Shakir can play inside/outside and be a return man. Shorter might make the team too.

Edited August 20, 2023 by The Jokeman

[wppete]

Shorter looked good today. He is gaining confidence. 

[Orlando Tim]

The fact is some WR take time to become great. He is most likely a JAG but he is a low paid JAG and he most likely will get better this year, so I definitely keep him.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, NickelCity said:

Baffling how people are this down on Shakir. He's flashed enough to make the bottom of the roster. Am I high on him? Not particularly, but it's a stretch to think there's a receiver below him who has shown enough to not just make the roster in addition to Shakir, but to supplant him entirely. 

 

I think we keep 6 WRs, and Isabella makes it over shorter. Diggs Davis Harty Sherfield Shakir are safe.

 

I think Isabella makes it too, but over either Shakir or Harty

 

 A lot of what they signed Harty for can be done by Isabella

Edited August 20, 2023 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[machine gun kelly]

I don’t see this as an either or.  Shorter was going to be a STer and maybe developed as a red zone guy, but they’ve also picked up and working a couple of other guys bigger so it’s undefined.  We have a pool of three at least longer guys.

 

One of them would compliment the speed of Harty and Isabella.  Sherfield also has some lengthy and proven in the NFL has sure hands in Miami.

 

A balanced roster makes sense to me.  I’m just not married to Shakir.  I believe in giving everyone a fair shot and proof of that is at CB 2-4.  Benford was a 6th and Dane was a 7th.   Oth have payed better in zone than Elam, yet Elam has amazing physical gifts.

 

 Once you’re in camp, who cares about draft status?  Just can they play.

 

One of the best WR’s on the leagueaa was a a 5th.  You might know him called Diggs.  We also have this little known Boston College guy that was a 1st team all pro at Wil LB in Milano.  Remember the guy so many on this board doesn’t deserve an extension two years ago.  I remember vividly.  It was a joke.

 

So we’ve had late picks deliver and higher picks not.  It’s a crap shoot with you hope a 60% hit rate.  Polian has said more times than I can count on NFLR his hit rate was 58%.  Considering he wears a gold jacket at parties, I’ll listen to him.  Btw- he absolutely loves Milano.

[buffblue]

32 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I think Isabella makes it too, but over either Shakir or Harty

 

 A lot of what they signed Harty for can be done by Isabella

Harty is a roster lock

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I think Isabella makes it too, but over either Shakir or Harty

 

 A lot of what they signed Harty for can be done by Isabella

 

Harty isn't going anywhere. He's another guy with a sizable investment. A multi year deal with millions in guarantees. Like Shakir, he runs exclusively with the 1's and 2's. Those type of players don't go from doing that to not even making the bottom of the roster.

 

As I've said, I don't expect this to be an either or type scenario. We kept 7 on the 53 coming out of the Pre-Season last year and with the way Isabella has looked as a Returner following Hines' injury, I think he's forced their hand to do the same this season.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, NickelCity said:

Baffling how people are this down on Shakir. He's flashed enough to make the bottom of the roster. Am I high on him? Not particularly, but it's a stretch to think there's a receiver below him who has shown enough to not just make the roster in addition to Shakir, but to supplant him entirely. 

 

I think we keep 6 WRs, and Isabella makes it over shorter. Diggs Davis Harty Sherfield Shakir are safe.

I’m starting to question what exactly Shakir has flashed. IMO, I have seen the absolute minimum I would expect out of him. I just don’t see the flash.

 

I think it is a legitimate question if Shakir is safe. He’s a slot guy primarily. But we have Kincaid and Harty who will both be used heavily in the slot. 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I don’t think I’m seeing the same “love” for him as you are… I think more than a few are disappointed with him following expectations 12 months ago…

 

Im happy not to have a dog in this fight to be honest… compared to some other issues  I have….I just hope whatever way they go it works out for the best

It's all Moulds fault. 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

Shakir’s hype is due to the belief that we got a “steal” in the draft.  
 

Deep WR draft and a guy who projected as a RD3 pick, dropped to RD5.  
 

It was lauded universally as a home run of a pick.   Analysts saying they can’t believe the league let Shakir drop to Josh Allen. 
 

Reality is he’s … ok.  He’s an intriguing player, but is his upside really that high?  WR3 caliber player most likely… maybeeee WR2 is he truly hits his stride. 
 

He’s also undersized, small arms and is inconsistent with drops.  
 

He shouldn’t be a roster lock imo.. but we also can’t be flippant about quality players on cheap multi-year contracts. 

Right now he’s not great. I wouldn’t want him playing over say sherfield.

[Doc Brown]

Whichever one doesn't go down with a mysterious leg injury this week wins a roster spot.

[Airseven]

3 hours ago, Beast said:

One picked at 148 overall and the other picked at 150 overall the following year.

 

Please tell me why the guy drafted 2 picks before the year prior is so much more valuable to the team because I just don’t see it.

 

in fact, I see 150 and a former 2nd rounder being more valuable to this team.

Good perspective.
 

I don’t think either of them ever contributes much. But Shakir is the known commodity and already earned his way onto the roster as a mid round rookie. For better or worse, that’s cachet in this conversation.  

 

But Shakir/Shorter isn’t either/or. There’s a path for both. I think the more interesting debate is Isabella - who has flashed - vs. Harty - whom Beane gifted a payday. 

[Freddie's Dead]

I thought Shorter had a good game, until @Solomon Grundy pointed out that all his catches were body catches, and damn, they were.  The big body doesn't matter if everything has to be in his gut.  We need to see him make catches with his hands. Tupac may drop the ball, but when he does catch it, it's a hands catch.

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Beast said:

Isabella very well make it over Shorter.

 

But why would Shakir make it over Shorter?

In my opinion, Shakir would make it over Shorter because he has the ability to get separation in the NFL while shorter does not 

[4merper4mer]

10 hours ago, Beast said:

Isabella very well make it over Shorter.

 

But why would Shakir make it over Shorter?

Isabella is a ham and egger who has made a couple plays in preseason.  He’s a proven failure in real NFL games.  He’s a camp body that could’ve just as easily been N’Keal Harry.  He’s not beating out any recent 5th rounder anywhere in the league because those guys haven’t proven themselves as failures yet.  

[Beast]

5 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Isabella is a ham and egger who has made a couple plays in preseason.  He’s a proven failure in real NFL games.  He’s a camp body that could’ve just as easily been N’Keal Harry.  He’s not beating out any recent 5th rounder anywhere in the league because those guys haven’t proven themselves as failures yet.  

Yeah, he’s a ham and egger that has superior speed.

 

Why do you think the Bills brought him in?

 

Speed.

 

Neither Shorter or Shakir can match him there.

Also, you just can’t assume a player will not flourish with a new team when he didn’t before. Remember Jerry Hughes?
 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Beast

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

Yeah, he’s a ham and eager that has superior speed.

 

Why do you think the Bills brought him in?

 

Speed.

 

Neither Shorter or Shakir can match him there.

 

Speed is useful on returns and our return guy got run over by a boat.  So far Isabella has not looked good on returns.  Luckily for him, neither has anyone else.  If another team doesn’t cut a viable return specialist, maybe he makes the team.  The dude can’t play NFL football but he ran a fast 40 five years ago and has been overhyped ever since.

[Beast]

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

Speed is useful on returns and our return guy got run over by a boat.  So far Isabella has not looked good on returns.  Luckily for him, neither has anyone else.  If another team doesn’t cut a viable return specialist, maybe he makes the team.  The dude can’t play NFL football but he ran a fast 40 five years ago and has been overhyped ever since.

Speed is useful on just returns? That’s funny.

[4merper4mer]

Just now, Beast said:

Speed is useful on just returns? That’s funny.

Speed hasn’t proven to be useful to your hero in his “career” so far, has it?  Maybe because he can’t use it when he’s laying on the ground or stumbling around after being thrown off his mark by NFL corners that actually play on Sunday.  

[BananaB]

11 hours ago, SCBills said:

Shakir’s hype is due to the belief that we got a “steal” in the draft.  
 

Deep WR draft and a guy who projected as a RD3 pick, dropped to RD5.  
 

It was lauded universally as a home run of a pick.   Analysts saying they can’t believe the league let Shakir drop to Josh Allen. 
 

Reality is he’s … ok.  He’s an intriguing player, but is his upside really that high?  WR3 caliber player most likely… maybeeee WR2 is he truly hits his stride. 
 

He’s also undersized, small arms and is inconsistent with drops.  
 

He shouldn’t be a roster lock imo.. but we also can’t be flippant about quality players on cheap multi-year contracts. 

Shakirs hype has a lot to do with him catching just about everything thrown at him last year in camp and preseason, not just where he was drafted. I don’t see him going anywhere, I do think he has a climb for a consistent roll at this point. If he had the same camp this year as he did last year this whole board would be drooling over him again. 

[Dr. K]

Why are so many in love with Isabella for that matter? I’ve seen him make exactly ONE play in his two preseason games. 
 

He may be fast but he’s not that fast, and he has zero moves. He’s a terrible kickoff returner, too.

[Chaos]

Does not carrying a middle lineback on the roster, free up a spot for 7 WRs?

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Speed is useful on returns and our return guy got run over by a boat.  So far Isabella has not looked good on returns.  Luckily for him, neither has anyone else.  If another team doesn’t cut a viable return specialist, maybe he makes the team.  The dude can’t play NFL football but he ran a fast 40 five years ago and has been overhyped ever since.

I always covet slow guys at every position 😂

40 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

Why are so many in love with Isabella for that matter? I’ve seen him make exactly ONE play in his two preseason games. 
 

He may be fast but he’s not that fast, and he has zero moves. He’s a terrible kickoff returner, too.

Because he’s a leading candidate for the 2023 Training Camp All Pro … somebody’s gonna win it. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

8 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I thought Shorter had a good game, until @Solomon Grundy pointed out that all his catches were body catches, and damn, they were.  The big body doesn't matter if everything has to be in his gut.  We need to see him make catches with his hands. Tupac may drop the ball, but when he does catch it, it's a hands catch.

 

While not ideal, I would assume Shorter still has a wider and thicker frame so it's going to be tougher for DB's to get arms around him to deflect passes. From what I gather just looking at the box score most of his targets and receptions where all short passes. That's a plus as well, as at this point I sort of assume he will mainly be used on a lot of deeper routes. 

 

For me it comes down to the fact that it seems like there are multiple guys on the roster that do the exact same things as Shakir, only better. Shorter, given his size doesn't really have a comp on the roster. Shakir can be a PR but if Harty and/or Issabella make the team that becomes an unnecessary job for Shakir. Meanwhile Shorter looks like a guy that would be a better gunner / blocker on special teams. 

 

It really comes down to whether or not Isabella makes the 53. As of right now it feels like it is leaning towards Andy making the 53.