Khalil Shakir vs. Justin Shorter

[Robert Paulson]

12 hours ago, Beast said:

No, I’m just being honest. What’s the deal with all the love for Shakir? What makes him better than Shorter or Isabella? I just don’t see the greatness in Shakir that others are claiming. He seems like a lackadaisical player to me. Makes a great play or two and then drops a pass and then let’s a smaller DB shove his ass out of bounds that leads to an INT.

 

To me he’s JAG.

 

 

agreed- it borders on irrational how much love this pass dropper gets. he doesn't do anything great- he is just a jag who drops more than he catches

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

I always covet slow guys at every position 😂

 

Not at all.  It’s just that speed can’t be the only component to someone’s game.  Marquise Goodwin was far faster than this twerp and eventually learned that he needed more.  Isabella is too small and weak to be and NFL player but boy would he tear it up in arena.  All time great there.  NFL?  Ham and egger.

[SoMAn]

The big problem as I see it is the confusion arising from ethnic sounding non-Anglo names that make dopes like us get easily confused.  2 guys in the same draft class with the names Khalil Shakir and Kaiir Elam. I still have to look it up to know how they’re spelled. For my sake, one of them has to go.
Justin Shorter- I got that one down the very first day!!!! 😊

[machine gun kelly]

11 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I’m starting to question what exactly Shakir has flashed. IMO, I have seen the absolute minimum I would expect out of him. I just don’t see the flash.

 

I think it is a legitimate question if Shakir is safe. He’s a slot guy primarily. But we have Kincaid and Harty who will both be used heavily in the slot. 

Exactly Sammy.  Some on this board get enamored with camp guys and think the world, but he’s just a 5th RD pick which is never a lock.  5th is a thumbs up and down kind of guy.

 

If he makes it fine, but if not I’m not losing sleep over it.

[RyanC883]

would like to keep him, shorter and Isabella. 

[boater]

I love these hindsight based posts. My all time favorite is 2017 Tre Davious White/Mahomes trade.

[mrags]

15 hours ago, NickelCity said:

Baffling how people are this down on Shakir. He's flashed enough to make the bottom of the roster. Am I high on him? Not particularly, but it's a stretch to think there's a receiver below him who has shown enough to not just make the roster in addition to Shakir, but to supplant him entirely. 

 

I think we keep 6 WRs, and Isabella makes it over shorter. Diggs Davis Harty Sherfield Shakir are safe.

I think a lot of purple would rather have Isabella and Shorter than Shakir and Isabella. 

[NickelCity]

Just now, mrags said:

I think a lot of purple would rather have Isabella and Shorter than Shakir and Isabella. 

 

I get that sense too. I don't expect it to happen but it's clear that a lot of folks on this board are done with Shakir. 

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

I get that sense too. I don't expect it to happen but it's clear that a lot of folks on this board are done with Shakir. 

Well. He’s not that good so it’s warranted. In all he’s been in the system over a year and he still hasn’t distanced himself from a guy we just picked up a few weeks ago. 

[machine gun kelly]

10 minutes ago, mrags said:

Well. He’s not that good so it’s warranted. In all he’s been in the system over a year and he still hasn’t distanced himself from a guy we just picked up a few weeks ago. 

Exactly.  If he has that much promise the easiest question to ask when guys were getting injured is why not increase his snaps, yet they bring in two over the hill guys like Beasley and Brown.  Brown was 32, had two targets for 42 yards.  3 games, but they don’t increase Shakir’s attempts.

 

Why did they allow Davis to keep playing  on a bad ankle as it was obvious there was a problem.  

 

Because they don’t trust him.  Pretty simple.  Just follow their actions.  I don’t dislike the guy, but I’m not enamored with him either.  These other guys are looking good so far.  We’ll see.  I just don’t think Shakir makes the 53.  

 

[ColoradoBills]

In the three-lockbox are Diggs, Davis, Harty and Sherfield.

 

It then gets a little stickier.  A lot of different ways they can go with the remaining 2 slots when you try to blend the WR attributes with ST worth.

I like what each of the others bring to the table so it will have to be left to the guys getting paid to make the decision.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

With the emergence of Isabella I think Shakir is in jeaopardy.  I wonder if the bills would trade him.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

23 hours ago, buffblue said:

Harty is a roster lock

 

23 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Harty isn't going anywhere. He's another guy with a sizable investment. A multi year deal with millions in guarantees. Like Shakir, he runs exclusively with the 1's and 2's. Those type of players don't go from doing that to not even making the bottom of the roster.

 

As I've said, I don't expect this to be an either or type scenario. We kept 7 on the 53 coming out of the Pre-Season last year and with the way Isabella has looked as a Returner following Hines' injury, I think he's forced their hand to do the same this season.

 

So I wrote my comment before yesterday's game, do agree now too they keep Harty

[maddenboy]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:59 PM, Freddie's Dead said:

I thought Shorter had a good game, until @Solomon Grundy pointed out that all his catches were body catches, and damn, they were.  The big body doesn't matter if everything has to be in his gut.  We need to see him make catches with his hands.

Body Catches.

That's why i predicted (April 29) that Shorter is not making this team.  Possibly practice squad.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by maddenboy

[Alphadawg7]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:38 PM, Beast said:

One picked at 148 overall and the other picked at 150 overall the following year.

 

Please tell me why the guy drafted 2 picks before the year prior is so much more valuable to the team because I just don’t see it.

 

in fact, I see 150 and a former 2nd rounder being more valuable to this team.

 

I think the answer here isn't complicated, it comes down to:

1. Shakir was a higher profile pic, he was projected to go as high as the 2nd to 3rd round and was a good value where we got him, while Shorter wasn't even sure he would get drafted.  
2. Shorter is a rookie behind 3 locks for the roster in Diggs, Davis, and Sherfield while Shakir entered camp as the lead candidate to be our WR at the slot position and doesn't have a lot of competition either.  
3. Shakir has a year in the system, Shorter is a raw rookie who didn't reach his potential in college.  

So if you want to ask why Shakir might make the team over Shorter, I would start with those items above.  None of that assures Shakir his spot, but it explains why he has a leg up and why people still believe he has potential.  I think a lot of people are intrigued by Shorter given his size and different skill set, but he does have a harder path to the active 53 than Shakir does for the reasons I stated above.  

[BullBuchanan]

On 8/19/2023 at 8:38 PM, Beast said:

One picked at 148 overall and the other picked at 150 overall the following year.

 

Please tell me why the guy drafted 2 picks before the year prior is so much more valuable to the team because I just don’t see it.

 

in fact, I see 150 and a former 2nd rounder being more valuable to this team.

Shakir is exactly what I want in a slot receiver and he has the ability to be so much more than that. He's shifty, strong, plays extremely hard and can and will lay out for crazy catches. He's got sky high potential. Whether or not he hits it will depend on his consistency. Based on his offseason training with Eric Moulds, it seems he's putting in the work, so now we're just waiting to see if he can put it together. He made some great grabs last year in very limited opportunities, and I'm expecting him to take a big jump this season. Not sure why anyone would be down on him at this point.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I’m going to say it. I don’t see anything special in Shakir. I don’t get the hype.

[Warriorspikes51]

just keep 7 WR's 

[Matt_In_NH]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m going to say it. I don’t see anything special in Shakir. I don’t get the hype.

Other than a drop on 3rd and 5 I don't see any reason this guy has not performed.  I don't remember a lot of drops last year, I think he has 20 targets and 10 receptions.....that is not a good rate but also not an adequate sample size.  I do remember a couple nice over the middle hands catches in traffic.  I agree I have seem nothing that says special.  If you waive him, someone will claim him.   It is a numbers game, I would think beans is exploring trades as we speak.

[Robert Paulson]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m going to say it. I don’t see anything special in Shakir. I don’t get the hype.

the only thing he does noteworthy to me is drop passes- i don't get the hype either except folks not wanting to be proven wrong because they latched on to him last year as the new da Rick

[Goin Breakdown]

I thought this was going to be a camp fight thread. 

[Brand J]

Andy Isabella is this year’s Tavon Austin.

[FireChans]

On 8/19/2023 at 11:35 PM, machine gun kelly said:

I don’t see this as an either or.  Shorter was going to be a STer and maybe developed as a red zone guy, but they’ve also picked up and working a couple of other guys bigger so it’s undefined.  We have a pool of three at least longer guys.

 

One of them would compliment the speed of Harty and Isabella.  Sherfield also has some lengthy and proven in the NFL has sure hands in Miami.

 

A balanced roster makes sense to me.  I’m just not married to Shakir.  I believe in giving everyone a fair shot and proof of that is at CB 2-4.  Benford was a 6th and Dane was a 7th.   Oth have payed better in zone than Elam, yet Elam has amazing physical gifts.

 

 Once you’re in camp, who cares about draft status?  Just can they play.

 

One of the best WR’s on the leagueaa was a a 5th.  You might know him called Diggs.  We also have this little known Boston College guy that was a 1st team all pro at Wil LB in Milano.  Remember the guy so many on this board doesn’t deserve an extension two years ago.  I remember vividly.  It was a joke.

 

So we’ve had late picks deliver and higher picks not.  It’s a crap shoot with you hope a 60% hit rate.  Polian has said more times than I can count on NFLR his hit rate was 58%.  Considering he wears a gold jacket at parties, I’ll listen to him.  Btw- he absolutely loves Milano.

Stefon Diggs had 700 yards as a rookie lol. I think everyone would be cool with Shakir if he dropped 700 yards last year. 
 

Instead, he got supplanted by the corpse of Coke Beasley who had already retired once.

 

The love for a random fifth round pick is insane. Vosean Joseph weeps.

[machine gun kelly]

36 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Stefon Diggs had 700 yards as a rookie lol. I think everyone would be cool with Shakir if he dropped 700 yards last year. 
 

Instead, he got supplanted by the corpse of Coke Beasley who had already retired once.

 

The love for a random fifth round pick is insane. Vosean Joseph weeps.

Chans,  it why was he supplanted?  What has he done that we don’t know about?  What about Milano who was a 5th RD pick who didn’t play much his rookie year, but when he played was solid.  What about Benford as a 6th who flashed as a rookie?

 

Im not busting on you.  I’m saying there is a reason they didn’t use him.  Evidently he didn’t show enough when in practice and where he was played in games to take on a larger role later in the year.

 

if he makes it and helps the team, great.  Seriously.  I just think they didn’t randomly decide to not play him.  He didn’t impress the people that matter.  His coaches.

[DapperCam]

I think Gabe Davis is a goner next year, especially if he has a great season. So there is a big opportunity here for guys like Shakir and Shorter to show what they are made of to possibly grab that spot. Davis himself was a 4th round pick.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Chans,  it why was he supplanted?  What has he done that we don’t know about?  What about Milano who was a 5th RD pick who didn’t play much his rookie year, but when he played was solid.  What about Benford as a 6th who flashed as a rookie?

 

Im not busting on you.  I’m saying there is a reason they didn’t use him.  Evidently he didn’t show enough when in practice and where he was played in games to take on a larger role later in the year.

 

if he makes it and helps the team, great.  Seriously.  I just think they didn’t randomly decide to not play him.  He didn’t impress the people that matter.  His coaches.

Here's the thing. Milano was beat out as a rookie by Ramon Humber.  Not unreasonable, a vet beating out a rookie fifth rounder. Towards the middle/end of the year, he took the job over and never looked back. Note, the Bills did not bring in a bunch of dudes to replace him after that offseason. And Milano has started when healthy since.

 

Shakir was beat out by Jamison Crowder/McKenzie. Again, not crazy, it happens. But instead of Shakir taking over when McK disappointed or when Crowder broke his ankle, the coaches turned to Shakir a bit more, and ended up bringing in Cole Beasley and John Brown to get PT because he didn't prove much.  Then the coaches brought in Harty and Sherfield who have pretty much outplayed him by all reports so far.

 

Is it possible that Shakir pops and cements himself on this team this year?  Sure.  Do I think he has more potential at this point than Shorter?  No. 

 

Shakir has pretty much proven nothing at this level.  It ain't over, but it appears that him not going Day 2 was right on the money.

 

When you're a fifth round pick, and you're cheap to cut, you have to prove that you belong on the roster.  Shakir may do that.  I'm rooting for him. I would have liked nothing more than for him to have taken the starting slot job and ran with it.  But he clearly hasn't, and having a ton of faith that he's gonna wake up and do it going forward seems really far-fetched.

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Here's the thing. Milano was beat out as a rookie by Ramon Humber.  Not unreasonable, a vet beating out a rookie fifth rounder. Towards the middle/end of the year, he took the job over and never looked back. Note, the Bills did not bring in a bunch of dudes to replace him after that offseason. And Milano has started when healthy since.

 

Shakir was beat out by Jamison Crowder/McKenzie. Again, not crazy, it happens. But instead of Shakir taking over when McK disappointed or when Crowder broke his ankle, the coaches turned to Shakir a bit more, and ended up bringing in Cole Beasley and John Brown to get PT because he didn't prove much.  Then the coaches brought in Harty and Sherfield who have pretty much outplayed him by all reports so far.

 

Is it possible that Shakir pops and cements himself on this team this year?  Sure.  Do I think he has more potential at this point than Shorter?  No. 

 

Shakir has pretty much proven nothing at this level.  It ain't over, but it appears that him not going Day 2 was right on the money.

 

When you're a fifth round pick, and you're cheap to cut, you have to prove that you belong on the roster.  Shakir may do that.  I'm rooting for him. I would have liked nothing more than for him to have taken the starting slot job and ran with it.  But he clearly hasn't, and having a ton of faith that he's gonna wake up and do it going forward seems really far-fetched.

 

 

Chans, Im not initiating the either or thing.  It just seems he hasn’t done enough to impress these coaches.  My point is he’s not a lock and maybe a bubble guy.

[Ralonzo]

On 8/20/2023 at 1:59 AM, Freddie's Dead said:

I thought Shorter had a good game, until @Solomon Grundy pointed out that all his catches were body catches, and damn, they were.  The big body doesn't matter if everything has to be in his gut.  We need to see him make catches with his hands. Tupac may drop the ball, but when he does catch it, it's a hands catch.

 

Ateman is a hands catcher. Shavers has had several good hands catches and at least one hands drop.

[T master]

TO this point this year Shakir hasn't done or show;d much at all & Shorter has a much bigger catch radius . Both have great ability but in the red zone Shorter is the better weapon one would think and also on the go routes .

 

So you know Dabol would probably want him or the teams that were saying what a great player he was & how the Bills stole him . So go to them & have them make you a offer for draft picks & use Shorter for his larger than life abilities .

[Freddie's Dead]

7 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Ateman is a hands catcher. Shavers has had several good hands catches and at least one hands drop.

 

Big Earnie and Marv fan here.  But Sherfield, Harry, and Shorter are bigger investments.  I like Patmon better too.  But they won't make the 53 just 'cause.  Hopefully they make it to PS and don't get claimed.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Freddie's Dead

[Fan in San Diego]

I like Shakir and Isabella. what has Shorter or Shavers done?

 

[Freddie's Dead]

15 hours ago, FireChans said:

Here's the thing. Milano was beat out as a rookie by Ramon Humber.  Not unreasonable, a vet beating out a rookie fifth rounder. Towards the middle/end of the year, he took the job over and never looked back. Note, the Bills did not bring in a bunch of dudes to replace him after that offseason. And Milano has started when healthy since.

 

Man, forgot about Lolita playing ahead of Cookie.

 

17 hours ago, FireChans said:

The love for a random fifth round pick is insane. Vosean Joseph weeps.

 

LOL, the VoJo reference.  I'll take obscure Buffalo Bills Linebackers for 1000, Alex....

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Man, forgot about Lolita playing ahead of Cookie.

 

 

LOL, the VoJo reference.  I'll take obscure Buffalo Bills Linebackers for 1000, Alex....

Who is Keith Goganious?

[Pete]

Diggs-Gabe-Sherfield-Hardy-

Shorter

Shakir

Isabella

Pateman

Shavers

Shorter

KeeSeen

 

maybe we keep 6 WR.   So only 2 make it.  

 

Bills are going to cut 5 WR that would have rostered on pre Josh Bills teams.  There were some dark seasons at WR.  So this is a good problem

[TheyCallMeAndy]

On 8/19/2023 at 9:41 PM, JaCrispy said:

Andy! Andy! Andy!

What? 

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Man, forgot about Lolita playing ahead of Cookie.

 

 

LOL, the VoJo reference.  I'll take obscure Buffalo Bills Linebackers for 1000, Alex....

Who is…. AJ Tarpley?