Should the “Bills Mafia” make the wall of fame or is it covered by the 12th man?

[NC-billsfan!]

I was watching local coverage of training camp and they mentioned how great the Bills Mafia were. Sean mentioned that it was really important for the young guys to get that exposure and see how they respond with fans in the house. Is the 12th man different than Bills Mafia or is it just an updated more specific name for our fans? Should it’s be reflected on the wall of fame? 

Edited August 10, 2023 by NC-billsfan!

[ChevyVanMiller]

I think that they are referencing the exact same people. With that said, 12th Man is generic, and Bills Mafia has become known worldwide, and is fully embraced by not only the players on the team, but the team itself.

 

I would be in favor of them changing the 12th Man to Bills Mafia on the Wall of Fame 

[NC-billsfan!]

That’s what I was thinking. The 12th man is pretty generic, but not sure if it’s ok to take down the 12th man. Wonder what the plans are for the new stadium?

[I'm Spartacus]

Don't mess with the 12th Man. It was the original fandom moniker and they "willed" some Bills victories over visiting teams. Broke NFL attendance records for 2nd smallest market. Seattle stole the name from us too.

[RiotAct]

47 minutes ago, NC-billsfan! said:

That’s what I was thinking. The 12th man is pretty generic, but not sure if it’s ok to take down the 12th man. Wonder what the plans are for the new stadium?

every player on the wall replaced by “O.J. SIMPSON”.

[I'm Spartacus]

Also, we didn't need that stupid train noise to get the fans motivated. The 12th man was as loud as a mother, without that goofy fan stimulus to get us rocking 

[BillsPride12]

37 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Don't mess with the 12th Man. It was the original fandom moniker and they "willed" some Bills victories over visiting teams. Broke NFL attendance records for 2nd smallest market. Seattle stole the name from us too.

Exactly.  Removing the 12th Man would be like tearing down a part of Bills history 

[The Jokeman]

53 minutes ago, NC-billsfan! said:

That’s what I was thinking. The 12th man is pretty generic, but not sure if it’s ok to take down the 12th man. Wonder what the plans are for the new stadium?

Honestly I hope they lose the ring of honor, as if they keep it and OJ some how stays on people will b!tch, if they change 12th Man to Bills Mafia people will b!tch etc. etc.

[Nextmanup]

It's the same thing.

 

 

[The Wiz]

51 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Don't mess with the 12th Man. It was the original fandom moniker and they "willed" some Bills victories over visiting teams. Broke NFL attendance records for 2nd smallest market. Seattle stole the name from us too.

To be fair, Texas A & M had it before the bills did so we stole it too.

[I'm Spartacus]

All right, ALL RIGHT.....🙂

[NC-billsfan!]

1 hour ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Don't mess with the 12th Man. It was the original fandom moniker and they "willed" some Bills victories over visiting teams. Broke NFL attendance records for 2nd smallest market. Seattle stole the name from us too.

Agreed, like you I’m the 12th man. I was in the stadium with you. I was an 8 year old when Leopold? Ended Miami’ s ten year streak. I feel like they might be two separate entities which is weird. I’ve been to epic games, goal post games, that’s the 12th man. I thin Bills Mafia is something different, something that evolved from the the 12th man.

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

I think that they are referencing the exact same people. With that said, 12th Man is generic, and Bills Mafia has become known worldwide, and is fully embraced by not only the players on the team, but the team itself.

 

I would be in favor of them changing the 12th Man to Bills Mafia on the Wall of Fame 

 

Bills Mafia is the commercial version of Bills fandom which had been going on for years.

Many fans are not comfortable being incorporated.

 

Put it on video board like other ads.

[scuba guy]

I think the 12th man came about for various reasons.

One the I can think of also is the game where the ref asked the crowd to quite down so they could here the play calls, and the ref said we will give the bills a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty.  Which there is no rule for.  The crowd got quite for a second then got louder than ever.  Ref asked for quite again and the crowd got so loud they just continued.  The players were clapping 👏 at the crowd.  

It was during the Kelly years.  Someone here will remember that game.

I just remember when I got home

E I could not here much for 3 days.

[Beast]

7 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

I think the 12th man came about for various reasons.

One the I can think of also is the game where the ref asked the crowd to quite down so they could here the play calls, and the ref said we will give the bills a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty.  Which there is no rule for.  The crowd got quite for a second then got louder than ever.  Ref asked for quite again and the crowd got so loud they just continued.  The players were clapping 👏 at the crowd.  

It was during the Kelly years.  Someone here will remember that game.

I just remember when I got home

E I could not here much for 3 days.

Denver comeback game. Elway was clearly bothered by it and subsequently fumbled an exchange inside his own 5 yard line and the Bills recovered it.

[BBFL]

Fans are fans. There is reference and commemoration of all fans under the “12th player/man”… Bills Mafia is encompassed within that. 

Can’t see the need to differentiate between groups of people who share the same, albeit different severity of, passion. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by BBFL

[Xwnyer]

the 12th man covers it fine

[Captain Hindsight]

12 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Also, we didn't need that stupid train noise to get the fans motivated. The 12th man was as loud as a mother, without that goofy fan stimulus to get us rocking 

Amtrak is a sponser, hence the train noise 

[Royale with Cheese]

I think you can have some sort of BillsMafia sign/statue/wall inside the stadium but leave the Wall of Fame as the 12th man.

[Matt_In_NH]

12th man was used more commonly in the 80's and 90's, it obviously refers to the fans in the stands on gamedays.  Bills Mafia is the fan base in general as it is known today.   I could see an argument for it but meh whatever.

[strive_for_five_guy]

No here.  12th man is a specific in-game reference, especially the impact of Bills fans at games going way back.  Bills Mafia extends beyond the game day experience and is a year-round, all worldly group.  For me, being on the wall reflects the in-game experience and impact element.  And Bills Mafia is just an extension of the 12th man, in my opinion.

[hondo in seattle]

According to Wikipedia, the first mention of the "12th man" occurred in 1900 at the University of Minnesota.   Many fan bases have been called the "12th man" since.  Are we honoring them too by putting "12th man" on the wall?  

 

I like changing what's on the wall to "Bills Mafia" because there's only one Bills Mafia.

Additionally, the "12th man" is sexist and leaves out the Mafia Babes and our other female fans.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Don't mess with the 12th Man. It was the original fandom moniker and they "willed" some Bills victories over visiting teams. Broke NFL attendance records for 2nd smallest market. Seattle stole the name from us too.

 

Didn't Texas A&M have it like 70 years before the bills though? 

[Fleezoid]

16 hours ago, scuba guy said:

I think the 12th man came about for various reasons.

One the I can think of also is the game where the ref asked the crowd to quite down so they could here the play calls, and the ref said we will give the bills a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty.  Which there is no rule for.  The crowd got quite for a second then got louder than ever.  Ref asked for quite again and the crowd got so loud they just continued.  The players were clapping 👏 at the crowd.  

It was during the Kelly years.  Someone here will remember that game.

I just remember when I got home

E I could not here much for 3 days.

 

There used to be a crowd noise rule where the ref could hand out penalties if the crowd didn't quiet down enough for the snap count. And it was in place for the Kelly years. I think they slowly stopped enforcing it until it eventually took it out. 

[MJS]

16 hours ago, scuba guy said:

I think the 12th man came about for various reasons.

One the I can think of also is the game where the ref asked the crowd to quite down so they could here the play calls, and the ref said we will give the bills a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty.  Which there is no rule for.  The crowd got quite for a second then got louder than ever.  Ref asked for quite again and the crowd got so loud they just continued.  The players were clapping 👏 at the crowd.  

It was during the Kelly years.  Someone here will remember that game.

I just remember when I got home

E I could not here much for 3 days.

There was a rule about fan noise back then. Dumbest rule ever.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

According to Wikipedia, the first mention of the "12th man" occurred in 1900 at the University of Minnesota.   Many fan bases have been called the "12th man" since.  Are we honoring them too by putting "12th man" on the wall?  

 

I like changing what's on the wall to "Bills Mafia" because there's only one Bills Mafia.

Additionally, the "12th man" is sexist and leaves out the Mafia Babes and our other female fans.  

"Man" is not sexist. Women are included. Both men and women are part of mankind. "Man" has been used to describe all people, including women, for basically forever, going back to Old English, Old Germanic, and even Sanskrit.

[T master]

Aren't they one and the same ?? 

[klos63]

Some Bills fans are way too into themselves.  On the Wall of Fame?  Come on.

[Buffalo716]

19 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Don't mess with the 12th Man. It was the original fandom moniker and they "willed" some Bills victories over visiting teams. Broke NFL attendance records for 2nd smallest market. Seattle stole the name from us too.

And the bills took the name from Texas A&m... Fun fact .  The bills are the only NFL team with direct copyright permission from A&m to use the term

 

Seattle and Indianapolis were sued

55 minutes ago, MJS said:

There was a rule about fan noise back then. Dumbest rule ever.

In place for only a couple seasons.. maybe 2

Edited August 11, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Bad Things]

Nope.

Keep the 12th man.  

[Don Otreply]

What OBD aught to do is have a sign over every Stadium exterior entrance that says; “ HOME OF THE BILLS MAFIA” or not…, 😂

 

 

[oldmanfan]

12th man takes care of it.  A fellow professor friend grew up in New England and was a huge Pats fan, but hates what Kraft has done.  So he’s now for the Bills.  When I told him I could get him a Mafia shirt he told me that brings up some horrible memories of the real Mob.  Point being it’s probably not the best to put Mafia up on the Wall.

18 hours ago, NC-billsfan! said:

Agreed, like you I’m the 12th man. I was in the stadium with you. I was an 8 year old when Leopold? Ended Miami’ s ten year streak. I feel like they might be two separate entities which is weird. I’ve been to epic games, goal post games, that’s the 12th man. I thin Bills Mafia is something different, something that evolved from the the 12th man.

That was Nick Miki-Meyer, and I’m sure that’s spelled wrong.  Great day, helped carry the goal post to Ralph’s box.

[RyanC883]

20 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

Also, we didn't need that stupid train noise to get the fans motivated. The 12th man was as loud as a mother, without that goofy fan stimulus to get us rocking 

 

imagine all that noise in a dome, echoing off the walls!  (sorry, couldn’t help it!)

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

Some Bills fans are way too into themselves.  On the Wall of Fame?  Come on.

 

The Hall of Fame has a fan exhibit.   

[klos63]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

imagine all that noise in a dome, echoing off the walls!  (sorry, couldn’t help it!)

 

The Hall of Fame has a fan exhibit.   

Has nothing to do with my comment.

[muppy]

the moniker of "12th Man" acknowledged the unrelenting LOUDNESS that occurred inside the stadium which at times impacted games and the opponents subsequent disruption. 

 

It had nothing to do with the bills mafia tailgate antics or even the charitable outreaches they have spearheaded including the outpouring to  Andy Daltons charity as well as Oshei Childrens hospital in memoriam to #17's grandmother

 

SO imho both are valid worthy fan "awards" but the one deserving within the wall of fame is 12th Man. The Bills mafia could be recognized elsewhere. Not both on the wall.

[strive_for_five_guy]

17 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

According to Wikipedia, the first mention of the "12th man" occurred in 1900 at the University of Minnesota.   Many fan bases have been called the "12th man" since.  Are we honoring them too by putting "12th man" on the wall?  

 

I like changing what's on the wall to "Bills Mafia" because there's only one Bills Mafia.

Additionally, the "12th man" is sexist and leaves out the Mafia Babes and our other female fans.  

This is a good point.  “12th human” would be more inclusive.

[transient]

20 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Additionally, the "12th man" is sexist and leaves out the Mafia Babes and our other female fans.  

…except that it’s a reference to an additional player on the field in a men’s sport. Would you also like them to change the penalty to “too many persons on the field“?

[ToGoGo]

Just give OJ a 2nd one instead. 

[BuffaloBill]

On 8/11/2023 at 8:57 AM, Matt_In_NH said:

12th man was used more commonly in the 80's and 90's, it obviously refers to the fans in the stands on gamedays.  Bills Mafia is the fan base in general as it is known today.   I could see an argument for it but meh whatever.

This ^^^

[Einstein's Dog]

20 hours ago, MJS said:

There was a rule about fan noise back then. Dumbest rule ever.

My understanding was the rule was about piped in noise.  And it was not dumb. 

 

I have a recollection of a playoff game, at I think Cincy, and they intentionally blasted in noise in from the stadium when the Bills were on offense to make it more difficult for the Bills.  It was wrong.  It wasn't crowd noise, it was from the stadium speakers.