TC practice - Sunday August 6

[HappyDays]

Updates from Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot:

 

Quote

The Bills weren't in pads today so have to keep that in mind when thinking about these observations.

Christian Benford had a ton of reps with the 1s today and it felt like he got himself back into the competition. He had two interceptions during team drills, the first off Josh Allen.

Allen was looking for Deonte Harty but he was double covered. The ball sailed a bit and it seemed like Harty gave up on the ball. Benford ended up with an easy pick. In the last team drill, Benford stepped in front of a bad pass from Kyle Allen, who struggled on the day.

 

Quote

Gabe Davis played like a star today. He had one drop during install but he responded in a big way, making a ton of good catches. I thought he bailed Josh Allen out on a few throws - one was low & one was behind him.

O'Cyrus Torrence started w/ the 1s & Ryan Bates again worked in later in practice. The DB shuffle continues as I saw multiple reps with Siran Neal and Cam Lewis on the field with Terrel Bernard, who was in with the 1s at Mike linebacker for the day.

Neal such a funny evaluation. There's times where he struggles but he is so competitive in this setting. Had a pass breakup 1v1 vs. Dalton Kincaid. Bad throw from Josh. -Matt

 

Quote

I wrote about Khalil Shakir yesterday in the stock down portion of camp update story. Maybe he read it because he looked great today. He made a few key catches during team drills and one from Josh Allen that would have gone for around 25/30 yards.

I'm still on the Shakir is a lock for the 53 train, but the numbers are going to be interesting at the end. Do the Bills want a dedicated returner (Andy Isabella) so Deonte Harty can just play offense? Jordan Phillips is off PUP, how many d-linemen are they keeping? Justin Shorter is expected to be a special teams ace and I don't know how they cut Cam Lewis, who plays 4 positions. -Matt

 

Quote

D-line was active today despite not being in pads. Shane Ray was getting great pressure working on 2nd & 3rd teams. He had at least one would-be sack. 

Eli Ankou was consistently in backfield and had at least a part in 2 would-be sacks. Boogie Basham had a batted-down pass at the line of scrimmage against - you guessed it - Kyle Allen. Kameron Cline and Kendal Vickers combined for a would-be sack late in practice.

Shaq Lawson has received a good amount of 1st-team work. Haven't noticed Basham there in a while. - Matt

 

[Warcodered]

11 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I didn't even know Quessenberry was still on the team.  Haven't heard anyone say his name all camp.

I'm sure we hear his name every once in a while when someone on the DL has a good rep.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Buscaglia in The Athletic said that Rousseau had a dominant practice.......with sacks against both Dawkins and Brown.

 

Also said that O'Cyrus Torrence has been getting beaten on the regular in camp and that Ryan Bates performance is far ahead of him..........which isn't the narrative that I've seen in general.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

Don't know if I'd ever seen Phillips interviewed before.   This man is so cool.   Nothing bothers him.   And frank.  

 

Says Floyd and Ford are special.  Says that's what you need to have a great defense, you need to be loaded.   They asked about Rousseau, and he said he's now a grown man.   Compared him to Mario Williams.  Said he's big and fast.   Phillips is clearly excited to be on the field with these guys. 

 

Also talks about the difference between Frazier and McD.  McD has an edge, which I'd hope would be the difference.   He also said McD is more colorful, and I think that meant that his words are more direct.  Love it. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Updates from Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot:

 

 

 

 

 

I think shakir is a lock for the 53

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Don't know if I'd ever seen Phillips interviewed before.   This man is so cool.   Nothing bothers him.   And frank.  

 

Says Floyd and Ford are special.  Says that's what you need to have a great defense, you need to be loaded.   They asked about Rousseau, and he said he's now a grown man.   Compared him to Mario Williams.  Said he's big and fast.   Phillips is clearly excited to be on the field with these guys. 

 

Also talks about the difference between Frazier and McD.  McD has an edge, which I'd hope would be the difference.   He also said McD is more colorful, and I think that meant that his words are more direct.  Love it. 

It's always fun how in contrast to his loud and energetic on the field personality he's just so chill in interviews.

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

22 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Buscaglia in The Athletic said that Rousseau had a dominant practice.......with sacks against both Dawkins and Brown.

 

Also said that O'Cyrus Torrence has been getting beaten on the regular in camp and that Ryan Bates performance is far ahead of him..........which isn't the narrative that I've seen in general.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in '20 and '21, before people got all hyped up on Bates when the Bears offered him a contract, Bates seemed to play more comfortably at LG than at RG? 

[Goin Breakdown]

4 hours ago, syhuang said:

We're doomed!!!!!!

 

 

Not to be that guy but Diggs has his share of drops each season. We just look past them because he is also pretty darn great. I just don't think him dropping a ball needs to be talked about. JMO 

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, Ta111 said:

Awesome interview. This is the “behind the scenes” stuff that is very interesting. 

 

A lot of party-line stuff in there, but he's well spoken, speaks impressively and has command.  Hopefully that translates to the performance of his unit on the field.  

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Not to be that guy but Diggs has his share of drops each season. We just look past them because he is also pretty darn great. I just don't think him dropping a ball needs to be talked about. JMO 

 

It's good that you don't want to be the guy that's WRONG.

 

But you are.

 

We look past Diggs drops because he typically drops about half as many per target as the very drop-prone Davis.

 

Since they both arrived in Buffalo it's about 4% for Diggs and 8% for Davis.  

 

Those are very tangible differences in the NFL.  

 

For reference,  Gabriel Davis had the second most drops of any WR in the entire NFL last season(9 drops....second to Zay "Drop Zone" Jones).    

 

And it's not just the score-able drops with Davis.......his catch % was 186th........that's THE LOWEST of any player who caught passes in the NFL with 65 or more targets(the Bills had 4 such players).    

 

Davis drops way more passes than is acceptable but he also doesn't catch contested passes that a lot of receivers do. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[Captain_Quint]

They did this with Diggs in Minnesota and he was successful with it. Kind of surprised that the Bills haven't done this much in his time here. 

 

[drummernut74]

1 minute ago, Captain_Quint said:

They did this with Diggs in Minnesota and he was successful with it. Kind of surprised that the Bills haven't done this much in his time here. 

 

This is called … Diggs won the offseason “urinating contest” between him and the coaches 🤣🤣🤘🤘

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

It's always fun how in contrast to his loud and energetic on the field personality he's just so chill in interviews.

 

 

 

Woaoh!!!! "Sun's Out, Guns Out" someone was not skipping arm workouts this off season!!!!!  He intends to hold his own in the hand fighting!

10 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

They did this with Diggs in Minnesota and he was successful with it. Kind of surprised that the Bills haven't done this much in his time here. 

 

 

I think it had to do with Beasley having locked down the slot until last season, and then Dorsey basically not using pre-snap motion much at all last year.  Diggs did play in the slot a lot last season, but in general as many have noted pre- and post-snap motion was much rarer than previous seasons.

[AuntieEm]

5 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

I ask because I don’t know,  do you think he has it in him to excel at the position? 

 

  Well he certainly grew up with football so he knows slot just being son of a good coach.  He also got to watch other great coaches.  Sign of a good coach is ability to teach the players their system.  When they can also explain to general fans some of how they do things then it's pretty certain that person is able to teach football concepts to football players. When the defense is well working unit it's because the players know the defense and to extent the why's so can adjust when things are a bit different.

 

 

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

If the Bills don’t have a top 5 defense again I’ll be shocked.

Ryan Bates being ahead of a rookie doesn’t shock me.

But what is surprising is Shakur hasn’t really emerged and taken that next step and I think because of Isabella having absolutely blinding speed and can return punts he might just take his spot. 

[StHustle]

15 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

If the Bills don’t have a top 5 defense again I’ll be shocked.

Ryan Bates being ahead of a rookie doesn’t shock me.

But what is surprising is Shakur hasn’t really emerged and taken that next step and I think because of Isabella having absolutely blinding speed and can return punts he might just take his spot. 

Come on man...no way the Bills cut Shakir in favor of Isabella. 0% chance.

[QLBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

If the Bills don’t have a top 5 defense again I’ll be shocked.

Ryan Bates being ahead of a rookie doesn’t shock me.

But what is surprising is Shakur hasn’t really emerged and taken that next step and I think because of Isabella having absolutely blinding speed and can return punts he might just take his spot. 

Isabella is a very long shot imho. He is a potential return candidate and that’s about it. Harty and Shamir bring more versatility. 

[Sierra Foothills]

7 hours ago, Breakout Squad said:

Gettleman 🤢🤮

 

A few things about Gettelman come to mind:

1. His first NFL job was as a scouting intern for the Bills. He was hired by Bill Polian in 1986 and spent 7 years in the Bills organization.
2. When he was hired to be the Panthers GM in 2013 he conspicuously did not fire a single person.
3. In his 5 years as Panthers GM, Carolina went 51-28-1 during the regular season and advanced to the playoffs in 3 of those years and won 3 NFC South titles.
4. He truly sucked as Giants GM.
5. He is a cancer survivor who underwent treatment for lymphoma in 2018 and is now cancer free.

 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

1. He truly sucked as Giants GM.

 

This is not in nearly large enough font.  It needs to be all caps, bold, and big.  

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

If the Bills don’t have a top 5 defense again I’ll be shocked.

Ryan Bates being ahead of a rookie doesn’t shock me.

But what is surprising is Shakur hasn’t really emerged and taken that next step and I think because of Isabella having absolutely blinding speed and can return punts he might just take his spot. 

Is cutting Shakir, or trading, really a thought right now?

 

He's been our #1 slot "WR", since spring.  Yes, Kincaid will take alot of snaps...and Harty/Sherfield get some reps too, but those are complementary players not starters. Plus Harty is an injury concern every year.  He's best suited as WR4.

 

He's only in year 2, coachable/hard working, likely an ascending role this year.  He also brings return game value, and some versatility to play outside...albeit his short arms brings some limitations.  On a rookie 5th round contract, this would be a horrible move to cut him.

 

Isabella still might make the squad, but that's only if he truly excels as a returner and/or Harty's performance/role on offense.  

 

There will be difficult decisions to get to 53, mainly DL and secondary, but cutting Shakir won't be it.

[eball]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. A better WR room and I could easily see Shakir cut, but as it stands I’d be shocked considering what else they have. 

 

Please list the WR rooms in the NFL you think are better than Buffalo’s.  And for those rooms please also identify the other strengths and weaknesses of the teams involved, as well as their QBs.

 

This is not intended to “call you out” or to insist that the Bills have a “great” WR room.  I just want to know your basis for criticism.

 

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's good that you don't want to be the guy that's WRONG.

 

But you are.

 

We look past Diggs drops because he typically drops about half as many per target as the very drop-prone Davis.

 

Since they both arrived in Buffalo it's about 4% for Diggs and 8% for Davis.  

 

Those are very tangible differences in the NFL.  

 

For reference,  Gabriel Davis had the second most drops of any WR in the entire NFL last season(9 drops....second to Zay "Drop Zone" Jones).    

 

And it's not just the score-able drops with Davis.......his catch % was 186th........that's THE LOWEST of any player who caught passes in the NFL with 65 or more targets(the Bills had 4 such players).    

 

Davis drops way more passes than is acceptable but he also doesn't catch contested passes that a lot of receivers do. 

Sorry you think I am WRONG lol. Perhaps I didn't write clearly what I was trying to say. Diggs is a great receiver. His "rare" drops are forgiven (does that work) because he is awesome (I like the guy). I don't think the media needs to make mention of a single Dropped pass in practice.
I just found that odd. It's practice. I wasn't saying he was like Gabe. Never said anything about any other receivers. 

[maddenboy]

8 hours ago, Ta111 said:

Awesome interview. This is the “behind the scenes” stuff that is very interesting. 

he sounds in-over-his-head. 

 

He seems like he starts talking without thinking first.  just stream-of-consciousness.  And there isnt much substance there.

 

I am not looking at a future Defensive co-ordinator or head coach.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Sorry you think I am WRONG lol. Perhaps I didn't write clearly what I was trying to say. Diggs is a great receiver. His "rare" drops are forgiven (does that work) because he is awesome (I like the guy). I don't think the media needs to make mention of a single Dropped pass in practice.
I just found that odd. It's practice. I wasn't saying he was like Gabe. Never said anything about any other receivers. 

They made mention of Diggs’s drop precisely because it’s so rare.

[maddenboy]

9 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

this is not a good interview.  Or, it is good because it shows he isnt that . . . smart about linebacker coaching.

[Ya Digg?]

4 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Sorry you think I am WRONG lol. Perhaps I didn't write clearly what I was trying to say. Diggs is a great receiver. His "rare" drops are forgiven (does that work) because he is awesome (I like the guy). I don't think the media needs to make mention of a single Dropped pass in practice.
I just found that odd. It's practice. I wasn't saying he was like Gabe. Never said anything about any other receivers. 

It was also mentioned because of the reaction by his teammates.  Honestly seeing that reaction definitely showed that perhaps maybe (gasp) fans and media blew that whole Diggs thing out of proportion

[maddenboy]

8 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Babich take over the DC position in the near future.

i really doubt it.  He sounds like he has no substance as a coach.

 

it doesnt sound like he is using coach-speak on purpose.  It sounds like he thinks he is giving the best answer possible.  And there isnt much there.

 

feels like the Peter Principle.  He cant bluff his way any higher than where he is right now.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by maddenboy

[JGMcD2]

12 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

i really doubt it.  He sounds like he has no substance as a coach.

 

it doesnt sound like he is using coach-speak on purpose.  It sounds like he thinks he is giving the best answer possible.  And there isnt much there.

 

feels like the Peter Principle.  He cant bluff his way any higher than where he is right now.

 

Well in that case… pot, meet kettle. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

Is cutting Shakir, or trading, really a thought right now?

 

He's been our #1 slot "WR", since spring.  Yes, Kincaid will take alot of snaps...and Harty/Sherfield get some reps too, but those are complementary players not starters. Plus Harty is an injury concern every year.  He's best suited as WR4.

 

He's only in year 2, coachable/hard working, likely an ascending role this year.  He also brings return game value, and some versatility to play outside...albeit his short arms brings some limitations.  On a rookie 5th round contract, this would be a horrible move to cut him.

 

Isabella still might make the squad, but that's only if he truly excels as a returner and/or Harty's performance/role on offense.  

 

There will be difficult decisions to get to 53, mainly DL and secondary, but cutting Shakir won't be it.

Can't see them cutting Shakir. He showed plenty last year and he is the only guy on the roster that can back up Diggs/Davis on the outside. But I could also see him as a healthy scratch much of the year if Kincaid is as good as advertised. However, I'd rather have an extra WR on game day than an extra RB.  Of course i hate the fact we even carry a FB and wish they would just get rid of Gilliam. 

[maddenboy]

18 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Well in that case… pot, meet kettle. 

then its a good thing i dont aspire to being an NFL coach.

 

but:

 

1)  am i wrong, in your opinion, of the coach?

 

2)  its not a personal attack.  I just want better coaches on my football team

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by maddenboy

[NewEra]

37 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Sorry you think I am WRONG lol. Perhaps I didn't write clearly what I was trying to say. Diggs is a great receiver. His "rare" drops are forgiven (does that work) because he is awesome (I like the guy). I don't think the media needs to make mention of a single Dropped pass in practice.
I just found that odd. It's practice. I wasn't saying he was like Gabe. Never said anything about any other receivers. 

Is this your first time receiving a Badol WRONG post?  Too funny huh

[TheyCallMeAndy]

5 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Not to be that guy but Diggs has his share of drops each season. We just look past them because he is also pretty darn great. I just don't think him dropping a ball needs to be talked about. JMO 

Diggs will have 5-8 drops with 160 targets and 110 catches. 
 

Other guys will have that many drops with 80 targets and 40 catches.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

 

But what is surprising is Shakur hasn’t really emerged and taken that next step and I think because of Isabella having absolutely blinding speed and can return punts he might just take his spot. 

 

 

Shakur is Tupac.

 

Shakir is 2Drop.

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

There will be difficult decisions to get to 53, mainly DL and secondary, but cutting Shakir won't be it.

 

Agree with that.  But I just looked, the cut is from 90 to 53 on the 29th.  Is this the first year that they've done the entire cut at once?  

 

I imagine that they'll cut some guys before that for purposes of simplifying the process in-house, but wow otherwise.  

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Sorry you think I am WRONG lol. Perhaps I didn't write clearly what I was trying to say. Diggs is a great receiver. His "rare" drops are forgiven (does that work) because he is awesome (I like the guy). I don't think the media needs to make mention of a single Dropped pass in practice.
I just found that odd. It's practice. I wasn't saying he was like Gabe. Never said anything about any other receivers. 

 

 

Well you were literally comparing Davis and Diggs by saying Diggs "drops his share" too.........which clearly implies that he drops about the same % of passes.    Which is FALSE.  

 

Since "rare" is much different "often".......yes that is a much more apt description.

 

You just wanted to shout down the discussion of drops.

 

Get used to the media talking about dropped passes, blown coverages, missed blocks etc.. because they've been reporting this stuff every day in camp for decades now.

 

If there seems to be greater attention brought to.......which is not necessarily the case........it could be that that's because Davis had a truly awful season catching the football last season and people want to know if that sh!t is going to continue.

 

[MasterStrategist]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Agree with that.  But I just looked, the cut is from 90 to 53 on the 29th.  Is this the first year that they've done the entire cut at once?  

 

I imagine that they'll cut some guys before that for purposes of simplifying the process in-house, but wow otherwise.  

 

 

Correct, this is the 1st year for a "single cut down date" following all preseason games.  Seemed like all teams wanted the roster flexibility, to get through the 3rd preseason game (when most vets rest).

 

It will be interesting to see how much, if at all, they cut down the roster prior to then.  You bring up a great point and I'd tend to agree that there are still reasons to cut some players sooner.

 

Barring injury (fingers crossed): OL, DL, & secondary will be the positions that have most depth-type guys, where I could see Beane trying to swing a trade prior to season (instead of outright cutting), but does this limit trades with a single cut down date? Guys like: Tommy Doyle/David Quesenberry, Cam Lewis (who will be tough to keep in a packed safety & CB room), Shaq Lawson/Shane Ray (if he shows well)/Boogie Basham - fighting for 1-2 DE spots depending if Von is ready for week 1.

 

Other preseason items, that I'm sure all fans will be watching:

1. Who wins starting MLB and CB2 roles?

2. Surprise young or vet player?  Noted some roster battles above, does someone like Jordan Mims or one of our young OL make a surprising push for a roster spot.

3. Return game: do they dedicate a roster spot to our primary returner? This would be Isabellas path to the roster, BUT...

4. What position group would we pull from?

5. Will Von be ready for week 1 & that impact on 53-man roster 

 

For 53, right now I'd go the following (#s-wise):

2 Qbs

4 Rbs (incl Gilliam)

9 OL

3 TEs

6 Wrs

Subtotal Offense= 24

11 DL (assumes Von is ready for Week 1, perhaps less than full snaps/pitch count-ie: Tre from LY)

6 LB

9 secondary

Subtotal defense= 26

3 S/T (Isabella not on 53)

 

 

 

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Please list the WR rooms in the NFL you think are better than Buffalo’s.  And for those rooms please also identify the other strengths and weaknesses of the teams involved, as well as their QBs.

 

This is not intended to “call you out” or to insist that the Bills have a “great” WR room.  I just want to know your basis for criticism.

 

Bills:

 

Diggs

Davis (RD4)

Shakir (RD5)

Harty (mid level FA)

Sherfield (low level FA)

Shorter (RD6)

 

There’s potential there, but it’s also relatively low investment compared to a lot of our peers top WR’s
 

KC-RD1 (via trade), RD2, RD2. 

 

CIN-RD1, RD2, RD2

 

MIA-RD1, WR1 (via trade) 

 

NYJ-RD1

 

BAL-RD1, RD1, high level FA

 

LAC-RD1, RD1, Aging WR1

JAX-High Level FA, WR1 (via trade)

 

 

Bills WR room may end up being towards the top of the league when all is said and done, despite the investment/lack thereof, as Allen is elite and they may have drafted incredibly well on Day 3, along with hitting on some under the radar FA’s.

 

That said, it doesn’t really stack up in terms of capital spent to many of our peer teams outside of the Jets. 
 

Edited August 7, 2023 by SCBills

[BillsShredder83]

9 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

I was at practice today-this was actually really funny! All the guys and even Diggs himself were giving the thumbs down. Josh lobbed the next one to him, he caught it, got a really loud ovation! Safe to say there’s no issues with Diggs and Josh

i was never in the camp of 'they hate eachother, Diggs trying to force his way out'...... but this is great to read.  obv you never want a superstar to be disgruntled, but it hurt to think that they might not be friends anymore, especially after the SI Kids cover and everything. we all got to be 3rd wheel of the bromance lol felt like mom and dad might be getting divorced for a minute. corny, i know, but still makes me happy to hear

[Special K]

This has to be the shortest training camp thread ever.....what gives??

[HappyDays]