Training Camp (scrimmage) - 8/4 5:00pm - The return of Blue and Red

[Richard Noggin]

4 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

I'm sure he meant no offense 🤣

 

That's not how being a Richard works. 

[Warcodered]

 

[Richard Noggin]

5 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

by not being a Karen or a Daren? JS  

 

This ain't about them.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

7 hours ago, The Wiz said:

 

I don’t hate the blue helmet but I admit it gave me an involuntary cold shiver considering how much my mind immediately went to the New Jersey Giants…

[BigAl2526]

I had a surprise chance to attend the scrimmage.  My wife's cousin had six tickets and several of his friends were unable to attend.  I can't really add any specifics to all the observations that have been reported.  Lots of nice plays.  The three drops that were already reported (Kincaid, Knox and Davis) were all drive killers.  The way scrimmages are run prevents offenses from really gaining a rhythm, but I don't think the coaches are really worried about developing rhythm in this setting.  Preseason games will provide opportunities for that.

[NickelCity]

I find it really interesting that some outlets reporting Dodson was perhaps the scrimmage standout...while others had Bernard as their top performer. 

 

Let's hope that bodes well.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, NickelCity said:

I find it really interesting that some outlets reporting Dodson was perhaps the scrimmage standout...while others had Bernard as their top performer. 

 

Let's hope that bodes well.

Something tells me Bernard has been getting hella criticism without actually getting the chance to show development

 

He needed to develop physically.... And has potential 

[Chandler#81]

8 hours ago, jkeerie said:

Just going to Ajay Cybulski's twitter...lots of good stuff in the red zone.  Unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to embed a tweet, otherwise I'd post.

On the tweet, the icon underneath the tweet with the arrow pointing up gives options of where to send it. Click ‘Copy Link’ then come here, add reply, right click and paste. You’re all set.👍

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

On the tweet, the icon underneath the tweet with the arrow pointing up gives options of where to send it. Click ‘Copy Link’ then come here, add reply, right click and paste. You’re all set.👍

I already told him how buddy 

[Nephilim17]

Hearing differing things about MLB... Good reports about Dodson and Bernard but then one says Spector tracks runners or TEs (can't remember) better than anyone except Milano. I thought Spector was out of the running. Just based on reports, sounds like Dodson's job to lose.

[JerseyBills]

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

He MITE be the big nickel McDermott has wanted ... Only problem is ... Is taking Johnson off the field for rapp... Johnson is really good

 

But will McDermott go Bill Belichick ... Re write and work his defense... Run something he never has ... Maybe big DIME..  the answer

 

2 safeties deep... Milano and Rapp , inside backers ... 4 lineman ... 3 corners ... Boom 

 

This is 3rd and long modern defense... But does he have the guts 

I've been saying since he signed he'll play the big nickel role which I believe was previously played by Neal,  so nice upgrade. I'm sure they had conversations about him having a significant role on d before signing.  He'd be a starting S on most teams

5 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

I had a surprise chance to attend the scrimmage.  My wife's cousin had six tickets and several of his friends were unable to attend.  I can't really add any specifics to all the observations that have been reported.  Lots of nice plays.  The three drops that were already reported (Kincaid, Knox and Davis) were all drive killers.  The way scrimmages are run prevents offenses from really gaining a rhythm, but I don't think the coaches are really worried about developing rhythm in this setting.  Preseason games will provide opportunities for that.

I hope we take the Jets route in preseason , according to radio outlets they're only playing main starters for a bit of their final ps game

[noacls]

9 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

More turnover? Do you follow the league? Bills are above average in terms of OL turnover. It’s a league problem. Mahomes has had multiple LTs and Cs in his short career. Allen has had the same LT and C his whole career.

Dawkins has had a different LG every year of his career.  RG has seen 5 different starters since 2018. Do you follow the league?

Edited August 5, 2023 by noacls

[CSBill]

7 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

Love that Blue hat. Where can one get such a hat?

[eball]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I think it was mentioned but the 1st team offense wasn't out there a ton............presumably less than on most days of camp.

 

 

I’m glad the 1st string O wasn’t out there much…sucks for fans, but that’s not what is important right now.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

13 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

by not being a Karen or a Daren? JS  

FWIW, the meaning of the name Daren is "GREAT". From the Irish. Derived from Darren. 👍

Edited August 5, 2023 by Solomon Grundy

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Something tells me Bernard has been getting hella criticism without actually getting the chance to show development

 

He needed to develop physically.... And has potential 

Going into OTA’s I thought Spencer Browns health and Bernard’s body would be instrumental in regards to the 2023 season.  

 

Too small.  Too weak.  Won’t be able to hold up in the middle with the 225 Milano at the SAM.b or will he?  

 

A year and 4 months is enough time to change your body, yet he seems to be around the same size/stature.  Lacks size and definition compared to his peers. Can he take on blocks or will he just get flattened.  He can’t run around every block. 
 

I’m assuming that he was selected due in part to his dedication and character.  I’d like to see that dedication show itself in terms of his body.  Maybe it has but we can’t see it under the uniform….. but color me skeptical in thinking he’s added enough strength to succeed as our starter in the middle. Time will tell though 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by NewEra

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I’m glad the 1st string O wasn’t out there much…sucks for fans, but that’s not what is important right now.

 

 

 

Yeah all I can figure is that they didn't want the starters out there much against the D with the energy of 30,000 people in the crowd.   They pushed the offense around good.   Epenesa flung Dion Dawkins to the turf on one play and Dion looked like an old man getting helped up.   He needs to get into form but I hope the D carries this play into the season.  Quite a different situation than the open practice that we attended in 2021.   This was like a full-on kid's day preseason game and they sold a ton of food.     

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, noacls said:

Dawkins has had a different LG every year of his career.  RG has seen 5 different starters since 2018. Do you follow the league?

That’s the nfl my friend.

[Chandler#81]

Now we’re on to something!

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

12 hours ago, BillsSbSoon said:

If epenesa finally breaks out that would be incredible for this defense but we read the same things last year in camp. This time it’s basically his do or die year

He had 6.5 sacks last year. He's trending up. That was as a reserve DE. People around here have zero patience imo

[davefan66]

5 minutes ago, Tom Donahoe, GM said:

He had 6.5 sacks last year. He's trending up. That was as a reserve DE. People around here have zero patience imo

I don’t get the hate on Epenesa. 
 

Dude isn’t a bust, may not have 15 sacks, but he’s a good player.

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

He MITE be the big nickel McDermott has wanted ... Only problem is ... Is taking Johnson off the field for rapp... Johnson is really good

 

But will McDermott go Bill Belichick ... Re write and work his defense... Run something he never has ... Maybe big DIME..  the answer

 

2 safeties deep... Milano and Rapp , inside backers ... 4 lineman ... 3 corners ... Boom 

 

This is 3rd and long modern defense... But does he have the guts 

 

So this is one of the most interesting posts of the pre-season.

 

When the Bills moved on from Jim Salgado (1 year at safeties coach, and yes there were a lot of backups playing but they were sometimes way out of position) and hired Joe Danna, at least some covering the Bills noted this was interesting for a couple of reasons.

 

I'm still looking for an article I saw about it (I think in TBN) but Cover1 noted that Danna had a huge role in coaching new safeties AND in an approach that enabled Houston to be surprisingly successful towards the end of last season.  They noted offenses were decoding our defenses, not by reading the safeties, but by reading the nickel defender, LB, or even DE:

 

 

Frazier had stated in an interview that Milano, Edmunds, and Johnson played in a very interconnected way (when explaining why they had to re-define some responsibilities to make the offense work with Klein in for Milano).  Cover1 noted that being able to mesh the roles of the nickel with the safeties could aid in disguise:

 

And that this is something Danna implemented successfully in Houston:

 

 

 

 

And conclude:

 

 

Bills signed Taylor Rapp on March 27th.  My understanding is that Rapp is looked at more favorably as a run and slot defender than a deep cover guy.

 

I also could be wrong, but in the first couple years when Lorenzo Alexander was here, seems the Bills were more multiple in the defenders they put on the field.    In 2017, Alexander played 60% of the defensive snaps.  Preston Brown was always on the field and either Ramon Humber (early in the season) or Matt Milano (later).  I know 'Zo talked about what the Bills called a "Buffalo" or "heavy nickel" package where he played slot corner.  And Zo also played with his hand on the ground at times. 

 

That changed as Taron Johnson developed and then Zo retired.....

 

But the point is, the Bills defense used to be more multiple, before it settled into a place where the two LB and the nickel corner we had were so talented Frazier never wanted to move them off the field.

 

I think we may very well see more substitution and some innovative use of safeties and CB and LB....and I think that is one reason we moved on from Salgado and brought in Danna as the safeties coach.  And it might well be interesting to study just how Houston was using their safeties.

 

 

[AmishRifle]

@Beck Water Fantastic post on the safety and disguise discussion!  Thank you!

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Tom Donahoe, GM said:

He had 6.5 sacks last year. He's trending up. That was as a reserve DE. People around here have zero patience imo

Im also high on an AJE breakout year, but in regards to us having “zero patience”…

 

Its not going to go well for us, when Josh Allen has massive cap hits, if high draft picks are meh for their first two years, solid in Year 3 and then potentially play up to their draft position in their contract year. 

[Beck Water]

8 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im also high on an AJE breakout year, but in regards to us having “zero patience”…

 

Its not going to go well for us, when Josh Allen has massive cap hits, if high draft picks are meh for their first two years, solid in Year 3 and then potentially play up to their draft position in their contract year. 

 

This is my biggest concern about Brandon Beane. 

 

I think he has a pattern of seeking to "hit big" on draft picks by choosing guys who have a higher than average ceiling, but a lower floor.

 

These guys take a couple years to develop.  Then, just when they're finally looking good, they hit FA and we have to choose who to extend.

[stevewin]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The offense really struggled to move the ball.    They would start next series from where they had left off in the previous series and they couldn't even get to midfield after like 6 series.   Defense just dominated them.

Honestly it was more pronounced at Fisher this week - esp Mon/Tues.  Defense was many times what I would call smothering - O didn't have a chance to breathe.  Almost like the O was being forced to play on a smaller field.  A lot of it was defense was throwing kitchen sink at them right off the bat - dudes coming from everywhere.

 

Was better showing by O on Thurs - at least it wasn't constant jailbreak.  Likely a combo of O handling it better, and D dialing the exotic pressures back a bit.

[boyst]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Mobile QBs can potentially have Milano playing a Spy coverage ... Still taking up mid space while mirroring the QB

 

He also can send a corner off the edge ..  again will we see it? I'm not sure 

 

All I know is that I've coached 43 and 34 bases ..  I've ran a 3-3-5 base. .. but does sean have the guts to go outside his comfort zone ?

 

I think you can run the big dime with a 4 man front ... 1 LBr... 3 safeties ... And 3 corners and we have personnel for that 

 

Good talk

I call that 3-3-5 defense in our style a guerrilla defense. Not the animal, but the bush fighter who pops out of anywhere to attack.

 

I still want to find ways to put Klein on the field as a player coach in specific instances. Taron Johnson is very good at diagnostic play and unspoken leader, tho.

 

A lot will ride on what we get from the front 3-4.

 

A fresh, strong, consistent 3 man rush is as effective as a 4 man rush who gets more reps.

 

I want to see the DL play, memory failing on this aspect to know if it's worth it.

[Franchiseneedsme]

15 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

“Don’t let hard work be confused with success”  or some such a thing, it’s a Doug Marone thing from when he was our HC, 

"Don't confuse effort with results" was the quote

[boyst]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

For sure ... That's why adaptation is key... I have been obsessed over personnel grouping for 2 decades

 

You can fight heavy with heavy even playing pass.... You mite lose a little rush tho

 

1 Technique (Jones) 3 Technique (Settle)

5 Technique ( Oliver ) 7 , Technique ( Miller/Floyd

 

That's a heavy front 4

And Floyd/ Miller do not have to be down lineman.

 

They can be up.

 

And we have seen mcd use various people, even Basham, in coverage. 

[Brand J]

52 minutes ago, stevewin said:

Honestly it was more pronounced at Fisher this week - esp Mon/Tues.  Defense was many times what I would call smothering - O didn't have a chance to breathe.  Almost like the O was being forced to play on a smaller field.  A lot of it was defense was throwing kitchen sink at them right off the bat - dudes coming from everywhere.

 

Was better showing by O on Thurs - at least it wasn't constant jailbreak.  Likely a combo of O handling it better, and D dialing the exotic pressures back a bit.

I had hopes McD calling the defense would be an upgrade from Frazier. I don’t ever remember thinking Frazier had a smothering defense. It was very simple and basic in what they wanted to do, but strangely had a lot of checks. When you hear opponents start to comment on how basic the Bills defense is, that’s when you know the coordinator has run his course. Sounds like the offense still makes its fair share of plays, but I don’t think we’ll see DBs lined up 7 yards off the LoS as often under McD. Encouraging report.

[stevewin]

2 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I had hopes McD calling the defense would be an upgrade from Frazier. I don’t ever remember thinking Frazier had a smothering defense. It was very simple and basic in what they wanted to do, but strangely had a lot of checks. When you hear opponents start to comment on how basic the Bills defense is, that’s when you know the coordinator has run his course. Sounds like the offense still makes its fair share of plays, but I don’t think we’ll see DBs lined up 7 yards off the LoS as often under McD. Encouraging report.

One other thing was the D was going off to the side field (out of sight of fans/stands) a LOT during the practices last week - more than I ever remember.  Could be a sign they are working on new things

[McBean]

I remember watching Bernard at Baylor and he was a stud.

 

Im not writing this kid off yet.

[Luka]

With all of the talent on the defensive side of the ball, I'd love to see the play calling and substitutions actually fit the offense we're facing that week, instead of just lingering in zone and hoping for the best. We've relied on outright talent the past couple years and it's time to use it schematically. 

[jkeerie]

9 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

On the tweet, the icon underneath the tweet with the arrow pointing up gives options of where to send it. Click ‘Copy Link’ then come here, add reply, right click and paste. You’re all set.👍

Thank you for pointing out about the arrow at the lower right.  I was using the three dots and going to another page.  The arrow will be much easier!

9 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I already told him how buddy 

You were both helpful.   Thank you both very much!   And it's a "her", buddy! 😉 

[Chandler#81]

4 hours ago, jkeerie said:

Thank you for pointing out about the arrow at the lower right.  I was using the three dots and going to another page.  The arrow will be much easier!

You were both helpful.   Thank you both very much!   And it's a "her", buddy! 😉 

🤣 I know, but I wasn’t gonna go there. 

[SCBills]

With how aggressive this defense is in every report from practice, how on earth did McDermott keep his sanity with these Frazier-led defenses?

 

I guess the regular season results were enough to keep his true nature at bay.. but I think I’d lose my mind if I was a HC and my DC was out here running bend-don’t break defense all day.  

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

With how aggressive this defense is in every report from practice, how on earth did McDermott keep his sanity with these Frazier-led defenses?

 

I guess the regular season results were enough to keep his true nature at bay.. but I think I’d lose my mind if I was a HC and my DC was out here running bend-don’t break defense all day.  

Because the defense under Fraizer was McDermott encouraged, approved and endorsed.

 

Unless we want to say Fraizer went rogue the entire time he was here and McDermott lost control of half the team.

 

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Because the defense under Fraizer was McDermott encouraged, approved and endorsed.

 

Unless we want to say Fraizer went rogue the entire time he was here and McDermott lost control of half the team.

 

Just the injured half.

[Warcodered]

 

[Nephilim17]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:30 PM, Buffalo716 said:

He MITE be the big nickel McDermott has wanted ... Only problem is ... Is taking Johnson off the field for rapp... Johnson is really good

 

But will McDermott go Bill Belichick ... Re write and work his defense... Run something he never has ... Maybe big DIME..  the answer

 

2 safeties deep... Milano and Rapp , inside backers ... 4 lineman ... 3 corners ... Boom 

 

This is 3rd and long modern defense... But does he have the guts 

Does we only play this package with a third and long?

 

In today's NFL, I may rather take my chances that a running back "gashes" us for 8 yards on a second and 10 once in a while if that means an elite QB didn't throw it for 12 — or 20 yards. And I think this package can help neutralize dangerous tight ends.

 

Yes, if this means the other team is averaging 6.5 yards a run it may not be worth it on early downs but I'm not sure that will happen with Rapp there to help the run.

 

So when it comes to picking a poison, I'd rather guard against a big pass play more often. I hope McDermott does have the guts to try this Big Dime, and more often than we might suspect.