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3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Is it plausible they told Diggs they wanted to restructure his contract so they could had the ability to sign a difference maker? Then they failed to sign said difference maker? Unlike what the other poster said they did need Diggs to agree to restructure his contract and they had to give him a good reason why or they gave him a crap load more money as a signing bonus to get him to agree and create more cap

spce. 

That's not how restructuring works. They didn't need to give him a reason or give him a crap load more money. They accelerated his salary, converting it into a bonus which gives him all the money upfront and allows them to spread his contract out, lowering his cap hit. Players like it because it gives them their money sooner. Teams like it because it gives them cap flexibility. Owners have to write big checks, though.

 

They don't sit down and negotiate anything. Diggs didn't do the Bills a favor by agreeing to restructure. It is a win-win for the player and the team. It is already expected to happen when these contracts are signed.

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1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

A bumblebee?? 

No.  He’s actually girls HS soccer player that was in a plane crash.  A Yellow Jacket 

 

 

In other news, I see it’s that time of the month for Badol 🤣 

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15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

So the tweet I saw said that Gabe had a 61.6% success rate vs man and a 57.1% success rate vs press.  That’s 35th percentile?

I found a free article from Harmon, stating the following:

1. Vs man coverage: Median approx 65% / 75th percentile approx 73%

 

So while 35th percentile sounds horrible, seems to be a "tight band", fairly low differential in percentiles.  

 

All this to say, I'd love to see our collective teams slot #s against Zone last year (when Diggs aligned outside).  I'd be willing to bet big $s we were a bottom 10 team, likely hovering around bottom 5.  

 

I've repeated this a million times since February, but that was our biggest issue LY (combined with poor IOL play, questionable playcalling, and some poor decision making by Josh).  Seems to be fair that Beane likely agrees with some of this; given his offseason approach to acquisitions.  Dorseys offense going to look alot more efficient (less volatile) IMO.

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8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You are obviously a pretty casual NFL fan and probably don't know who half of those players are but their receiving options were a lot stronger than the Bills.   

Passive aggressive jerkiness is not your strong suit.  Stick with direct jerkiness.

 

If the Bills had drafted Skyy Moore in the 2nd and got the same results as the Chiefs you’d be on here proudly declaring how much smarter than Beane you are and listing a few guys that were better in 22.  Instead he is on your wish list.  It’s merely one of a trillion examples.  

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9 hours ago, MJS said:

That's not how restructuring works. They didn't need to give him a reason or give him a crap load more money. They accelerated his salary, converting it into a bonus which gives him all the money upfront and allows them to spread his contract out, lowering his cap hit. Players like it because it gives them their money sooner. Teams like it because it gives them cap flexibility. Owners have to write big checks, though.

 

They don't sit down and negotiate anything. Diggs didn't do the Bills a favor by agreeing to restructure. It is a win-win for the player and the team. It is already expected to happen when these contracts are signed.

It’s a contract, they can’t change it without him agreeing to the change.  That’s just the law you must get their sign off to do any changes even ones that are positive for the other party otherwise you could be considered in breach of contract.  Besides that it’s just common sense you tell the person you’re changing the contract and most people (because we are people) give a reason why. Not every person runs it like BB and is as nice as sandpaper on sensitive skin. 

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13 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

It’s a contract, they can’t change it without him agreeing to the change.  That’s just the law you must get their sign off to do any changes even ones that are positive for the other party otherwise you could be considered in breach of contract.  Besides that it’s just common sense you tell the person you’re changing the contract and most people (because we are people) give a reason why. Not every person runs it like BB and is as nice as sandpaper on sensitive skin. 

The language is in the original contract.

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50 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

It’s a contract, they can’t change it without him agreeing to the change.  That’s just the law you must get their sign off to do any changes even ones that are positive for the other party otherwise you could be considered in breach of contract.  Besides that it’s just common sense you tell the person you’re changing the contract and most people (because we are people) give a reason why. Not every person runs it like BB and is as nice as sandpaper on sensitive skin. 

Partially correct and partially way off base.

 

You are correct in saying they need him to agree to a CHANGE in the contract. A change would be things such as adding void years or straight up cuts in salary. 

 

It's not considered a change in contract to do a restructure as MOST contracts given these days have those permissions as part of the existing deal. The language is built in and agreed to upon signing the original deal. This would be the type of restructure you see most players receive. Conversion of salary to bonus to free up space. 

 

Now it would be a courtesy to mention it to a player or his representative before doing it. Especially if a GM has contact with a guy over the course of the off-season. But for a simple restructure it's not needed.

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Has this been posted?🤔

 

21 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dude: we get it that Gabe Davis is not Tee Higgins or Jalen Waddle.

 

But can we agree there's a fair distance between those two guys, and a "bunch of crap"?  Yeah, we want him to have fewer drops, and be thrown more catchable passes.  But by a number of metrics, he's actually at the top of the #2s and a number of teams don't have a #1 with his production.

Plus Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are all upgrades over McKenzie who was our #3 last year. Kincaid should be a playmaker from day 1 as well. I like our weapons alot. Not wise to sign another 30+ yo WR unless it was a 1 or even 2 yr deal and I'm sure he wants 3-5 years at top dollar.  Just wouldn't be a smart move imo for the long run

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31 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Has this been posted?🤔

 

Plus Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are all upgrades over McKenzie who was our #3 last year. Kincaid should be a playmaker from day 1 as well. I like our weapons alot. Not wise to sign another 30+ yo WR unless it was a 1 or even 2 yr deal and I'm sure he wants 3-5 years at top dollar.  Just wouldn't be a smart move imo for the long run


its not like Diggs is losing money on a restructure. Weird. 

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5 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:


its not like Diggs is losing money on a restructure. Weird. 

He did lose flexibility in that he can't be traded now. He did it (reportedly) so they could add Hopkins so teams would stop double teaming him and then the Bills didn't so now he feels duped.

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8 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

He did lose flexibility in that he can't be traded now. He did it (reportedly) so they could add Hopkins so teams would stop double teaming him and then the Bills didn't so now he feels duped.

 

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the restructure prolongs his time here, giving Stef and the team fewer avenues for an out. 


Reading the tea leafs, it seems as though at least part of the issue is that Stef would like to ask to leave, but cannot?

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21 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the restructure prolongs his time here, giving Stef and the team fewer avenues for an out. 

Restructure isn’t an extension so it does not necessarily prolong anything.  It makes his contract less tradable which might guarantee his stay in Buffalo.  

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1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Has this been posted?🤔

 

Plus Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are all upgrades over McKenzie who was our #3 last year. Kincaid should be a playmaker from day 1 as well. I like our weapons alot. Not wise to sign another 30+ yo WR unless it was a 1 or even 2 yr deal and I'm sure he wants 3-5 years at top dollar.  Just wouldn't be a smart move imo for the long run

And last year heading into the season we would have taken McKenzie over all of them. Difference is McKenzie finally got his shot and failed and the others are looking for that opportunity. No one knows if it’s an upgrade or not yet. 

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2 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Restructure isn’t an extension so it does not necessarily prolong anything.  It makes his contract less tradable which might guarantee his stay in Buffalo.  

 

Yeah it's been much discussed in WNY that he has said he would like to play with his brother at some point........and the way it lines up it would most likely be with Stef Diggs on a final contract with Dallas around when his bro is in his prime.     The cap hit to move him now would be pretty absurd and makes that possibility in the near future very unlikely.   

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49 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

He did lose flexibility in that he can't be traded now. He did it (reportedly) so they could add Hopkins so teams would stop double teaming him and then the Bills didn't so now he feels duped.

 

More than that, I think Stef just wants to win.  

 

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1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Has this been posted?🤔

 

Plus Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are all upgrades over McKenzie who was our #3 last year. Kincaid should be a playmaker from day 1 as well. I like our weapons alot. Not wise to sign another 30+ yo WR unless it was a 1 or even 2 yr deal and I'm sure he wants 3-5 years at top dollar.  Just wouldn't be a smart move imo for the long run

 

Yeah, it's been posted.  Might or might not be one of the things Diggs is talking about here:

 

I don't know that Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are "all upgrades over McKenzie".  I would like that to be true; I think 2 of the 3 have higher ceilings.

 

Dunno if this will work:

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=McKeIs00&p1yrfrom=2022&p1yrto=2022&player_id2=SherTr00&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022&player_id3=HarrDe07&p3yrfrom=2021&p3yrto=2021

 

McKenzie had more receptions and more yards in 2 fewer games than Sherfield last season.   Sherfield can play teams other than as PR/KR though

Deonte Harty has been a first team all-Pro as a KR/PR and had a better season in 2021, but the question is "can he stay healthy?"

 

So it's not a sure thing, but one would like to think that  with 3 shots at it one will work.

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2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

It’s a contract, they can’t change it without him agreeing to the change.  That’s just the law you must get their sign off to do any changes even ones that are positive for the other party otherwise you could be considered in breach of contract.  Besides that it’s just common sense you tell the person you’re changing the contract and most people (because we are people) give a reason why. Not every person runs it like BB and is as nice as sandpaper on sensitive skin. 

 

No offense, but you are only demonstrating you don't actually know how it works and are basing your incorrect assumptions here based on what you think is "common sense" on what you assume to be true for all contracts with no regards for the actual language and contract law applied to NFL players contracts.  

 

The fact remains, the option to convert is in the original contract, and that clause is NOT executable by the player, and ONLY executable by the team and the team does NOT need to consult with said player, seek their permission, nor speak with them prior to doing it.  That is the entire point to the clause.  

 

And since you want to refer to "common sense", if you applied common sense here it would be absolutely clear to you that is how it works, otherwise no GM would be able to sign players to these big contracts that are going to screw the cap without a restructure IF it was dependent on said player "agreeing" and signing off on the restructure.

 

To be honest, this isn't up for interpretation, its 100% fact.  Players do NOT ever have to approve, be consulted, or given a reason when it comes to a team exercising the restructure clause that is in their contract.  

 

PS:  All cap words and the bolded was just to highlight key words, not yell.  

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1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:


its not like Diggs is losing money on a restructure. Weird. 

It’s not like Diggs had a choice in the matter, 

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1 hour ago, BananaB said:

And last year heading into the season we would have taken McKenzie over all of them. Difference is McKenzie finally got his shot and failed and the others are looking for that opportunity. No one knows if it’s an upgrade or not yet. 

Not Harty 

Harty had 570 yards on 30 rec for 15.7 ypc

 

McKenzie last year had 42 rec for 423 10.1 ypc yards with a far far superior QB

 

Sherfield had 30 rec 417 yards for 13.7 ypc

 

Shakir had 10 rec 161 16.1 ypc

 

Big upgrades. Especially in the yac department 

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36 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, it's been posted.  Might or might not be one of the things Diggs is talking about here:

 

I don't know that Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are "all upgrades over McKenzie".  I would like that to be true; I think 2 of the 3 have higher ceilings.

 

Dunno if this will work:

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=McKeIs00&p1yrfrom=2022&p1yrto=2022&player_id2=SherTr00&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022&player_id3=HarrDe07&p3yrfrom=2021&p3yrto=2021

 

McKenzie had more receptions and more yards in 2 fewer games than Sherfield last season.   Sherfield can play teams other than as PR/KR though

Deonte Harty has been a first team all-Pro as a KR/PR and had a better season in 2021, but the question is "can he stay healthy?"

 

So it's not a sure thing, but one would like to think that  with 3 shots at it one will work.

Harty 21, injured in 22 had 570 yards on 30 rec for 15.7 ypc

 

McKenzie last year had 42 rec for 423 10.1 ypc yards with a far far superior QB

 

Sherfield had 30 rec 417 yards for 13.7 ypc

 

Shakir had 10 rec 161 16.1 ypc

 

Big upgrades. Especially in the yac department 

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18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, it's been posted.  Might or might not be one of the things Diggs is talking about here:

 

I don't know that Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are "all upgrades over McKenzie".  I would like that to be true; I think 2 of the 3 have higher ceilings.

 

Dunno if this will work:

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=McKeIs00&p1yrfrom=2022&p1yrto=2022&player_id2=SherTr00&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022&player_id3=HarrDe07&p3yrfrom=2021&p3yrto=2021

 

McKenzie had more receptions and more yards in 2 fewer games than Sherfield last season.   Sherfield can play teams other than as PR/KR though

Deonte Harty has been a first team all-Pro as a KR/PR and had a better season in 2021, but the question is "can he stay healthy?"

 

So it's not a sure thing, but one would like to think that  with 3 shots at it one will work.

 

Unfortunately, the stats are not really going to answer this question for anyone, they are not apples to apples kind of situations.  McKenzie played on the 2nd highest scoring offense in the NFL over the past 3 years, and only 2nd to KC by a total of 5 points.  So statistically, he should have more stats because he will have more opportunities playing in this offense, and more importantly playing with Josh.  

 

So instead, here is how I would look at it.  Sherfield, Harty, and Shakir are essentially replacing Kumerow, McKenzie and rookie Shakir who was not used a lot.

 

Kumerow:  Sherfield is significantly better WR than Kumerow in terms to what they can give us on the field as a WR.  And that is not much of a surprise given Kumerow was here for his ST ability, not because he was significant contributor at his position on the field as a WR.  So not a lot of reasoning or explaining needs to go into that consideration.

 

McKenzie:  Harty isn't on his own replacing McKenzie (last years version of McKenzie), that is a combo deal of Shakir and Harty.  In fact, Harty is more or less replacing McKenzie's more suited role as a reserve WR that has gadget or niche value.  By all accounts, Shakir is entering camp as the starting slot WR, and is expected to enter week 1 that way as well.  McKenzie did not do well in that roll last year, and his roll on this team this year would have been more like his previous role of a gadget or creative use type player.  That is where Harty comes in, but Harty brings a lot more to the table as an actual talent at WR than McKenzie did.

 

The only thing McKenzie really did well was run fast, but unfortunately, his weaknesses as an actual WR limited the use of that speed effectively to shorter areas.  He does not track the long ball well, so despite his speed he was never a down field threat or a guy who could take the top off the defense.  He also had unreliable hands, inconsistent and even sloppy at times route runner, was not physical so struggled with contested catches or catching in traffic and could not fight for yards once he had the ball.  More importantly, he was not very cerebral on the field either, which is important when playing the short to mid field with Allen at QB and the reliance on receivers improvising a lot.  

 

Now enter Harty...he is a more polished route runner and a true deep threat who can take the top off the D or take it to the house at any given moment.  He provides a lot more pressure on the defense when on the field.  For all Mackenzie's speed, he wasn't any more of a deep threat than older and slower Beasley was, and provided none of the short to mid field talent or value Beasley did either.  With Harty, he has the speed and agility to handle any gadget play they would have rolled out for McKenzie, and probably better given he is a better route runner, but he also is a major downfield threat anytime he is on the field with Josh Allens arm.  

 

So in my personal opinion, I think the upgrades this year are actually noticeably better, maybe even significant when you look at the 3 guys (Sherfield, Shakir, and Harty) that are essentially replacing 3 guys (Kumerow, McKenzie, and seldom used rookie Shakir).  Although,  Harty does need to stay healthy too, that is a legit concern with his history and size.  The good news is, Shakir is really replacing the role McKenzie had last year, so if Harty does get hurt, we aren't down a significant starter.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, MJS said:

The language is in the original contract.

You are ASSUMING this. I also doubt it because then it becomes Vague and any vagueness Benefits the party that doesn’t write the contract up.  So there is zero chance that it is written into the contract. Mind you all sides realize it can renegotiate to change the terms. When it’s beneficial to the player it is easy and fast.. Also if it was as easy as people here think they would do it almost all the time.. it isn’t most contracts never change threw the life of the contract in the NFL.. 

 

Also how did a DHop thread turn into a thread about contracts??? Lol

Edited by PatsFanNH
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2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Has this been posted?🤔

 

Plus Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are all upgrades over McKenzie who was our #3 last year. Kincaid should be a playmaker from day 1 as well. I like our weapons alot. Not wise to sign another 30+ yo WR unless it was a 1 or even 2 yr deal and I'm sure he wants 3-5 years at top dollar.  Just wouldn't be a smart move imo for the long run

ML football has terrible takes and I would not place much faith or waste time with much of what comes from that twitter handle. 

 

You should see their qb rankings...lol

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38 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

You are ASSUMING this. I also doubt it because then it becomes Vague and any vagueness Benefits the party that doesn’t write the contract up.  So there is zero chance that it is written into the contract. Mind you all sides realize it can renegotiate to change the terms. When it’s beneficial to the player it is easy and fast.. Also if it was as easy as people here think they would do it almost all the time.. it isn’t most contracts never change threw the life of the contract in the NFL.. 

 

Also how did a DHop thread turn into a thread about contracts??? Lol

Ok. You are just making it clear you don't know how it works.

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6 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:


When was Juju not a good reciever ? I don’t get it 

He's always been very inconsistent at getting open and in the end is average as WR's go. Steeler fans were never sold on him as a whole either. Certainly more frustration than joy with him. Limited speed, explosiveness and dedication to the game at times. Pretty dang good hands though! Pretty much defines average. a middle of the pack #2.

 

If we're looking to set expectations of the Bills #2 (Whom I think will be Kincaid before too terribly long) I would hope we can find a better example. That's all.

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2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Not Harty 

Harty had 570 yards on 30 rec for 15.7 ypc

 

McKenzie last year had 42 rec for 423 10.1 ypc yards with a far far superior QB

 

Sherfield had 30 rec 417 yards for 13.7 ypc

 

Shakir had 10 rec 161 16.1 ypc

 

Big upgrades. Especially in the yac department 

McKenzie might have had the better QB but Sherfield had two of the fastest guys in football soaking up all the attention from opposing defences. Seems like wash to me. 
 

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3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

Yeah, it's been posted.  Might or might not be one of the things Diggs is talking about here:

 

I don't know that Sherfield, Harty and 2nd year Shakir are "all upgrades over McKenzie".  I would like that to be true; I think 2 of the 3 have higher ceilings.

 

Dunno if this will work:

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=McKeIs00&p1yrfrom=2022&p1yrto=2022&player_id2=SherTr00&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022&player_id3=HarrDe07&p3yrfrom=2021&p3yrto=2021

 

McKenzie had more receptions and more yards in 2 fewer games than Sherfield last season.   Sherfield can play teams other than as PR/KR though

Deonte Harty has been a first team all-Pro as a KR/PR and had a better season in 2021, but the question is "can he stay healthy?"

 

So it's not a sure thing, but one would like to think that  with 3 shots at it one will work.

 

Sherfield also had 14 fewer targets.  Primarily because he had 2 really good WRs on the field at the same time.

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1 hour ago, BananaB said:

McKenzie might have had the better QB but Sherfield had two of the fastest guys in football soaking up all the attention from opposing defences. Seems like wash to me. 
 

I guess a wash. McKenzie also had mainly 1 v 1 matchups. 

 

I think Sherfield will be a decent upgrade.  I think Harty could be special.  John Brown type #s. Ppl forget Brown went for over 1k yards 6 TDs in 2019. Could see Harty go for 800 and 8 TDs , because we have way more weapons now compared to 19. Also, Josh is light years better than he was in 19

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By the way, any word on any team signing Hopkins?  Haven’t seen any press, It appears there isn’t much demand for him at his asking price. 

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46 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I guess a wash. McKenzie also had mainly 1 v 1 matchups. 

 

I think Sherfield will be a decent upgrade.  I think Harty could be special.  John Brown type #s. Ppl forget Brown went for over 1k yards 6 TDs in 2019. Could see Harty go for 800 and 8 TDs , because we have way more weapons now compared to 19. Also, Josh is light years better than he was in 19

Brown was the #1 at the time and Hardy will likely be #4 or 5…. Goodluck with that

 

I see him more of a gadget player like McKenzie was before Beas left. I wouldn’t be surprised if Shakir makes a bigger impact then both hardy and Sherfield. 

Edited by BananaB
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37 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

By the way, any word on any team signing Hopkins?  Haven’t seen any press, It appears there isn’t much demand for him at his asking price. 

 

Last I saw was the Pats were the favorites but nothing since. Maybe Beane comes back to this and gets him at a reasonable price. 

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47 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Brown was the #1 at the time and Hardy will likely be #4 or 5…. Goodluck with that

 

I see him more of a gadget player like McKenzie was before Beas left. I wouldn’t be surprised if Shakir makes a bigger impact then both hardy and Sherfield. 

I see him as a borderline #2"

 

I feel he'll definitely take reps away from Davis on the outside.  Dude was targeted by multiple teams and chose Buf. He's going to make a name for himself here 

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1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

Last I saw was the Pats were the favorites but nothing since. Maybe Beane comes back to this and gets him at a reasonable price. 

That would be a coup if it happens, 

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It seems to me we are trying to be closer to the Chiefs last year who had crazy pass catching depth. Only

thing is their 1B Juju did have more output than any of our guys will individually. 

 

We might not have that 1B, but our top 4 pass catching targets figure to be about as deep as can be absent Hopkins with Diggs as 1A, and any order of Davis, Knox, and Kincaid platooning as 1B. One or more of of Cook, Harty, Sherfield, Shakir, and Morris to round out the group against CB3-4s and LBs. Our pass catching depth is pretty crazy.
 

Would be great for Cook to keep up his rushing success and add something close to a McKinnon receiving output.

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11 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

It seems to me we are trying to be closer to the Chiefs last year who had crazy pass catching depth. Only

thing is their 1B Juju did have more output than any of our guys will individually. 

 

We might not have that 1B, but our top 4 pass catching targets figure to be about as deep as can be absent Hopkins with Diggs as 1A, and any order of Davis, Knox, and Kincaid platooning as 1B. One or more of of Cook, Harty, Sherfield, Shakir, and Morris to round out the group against CB3-4s and LBs. Our pass catching depth is pretty crazy.
 

Would be great for Cook to keep up his rushing success and add something close to a McKinnon receiving output.

This is kind of a point that I heard on the radio. The Bills seem to be one step behind the chiefs because they are mimicking. Idk if I subscribe to that or not but it's a thought. They do call it a copy cat league. 

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