Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I think you're greatly downplaying how much of a reduction he'd have if Hopkins were on the field at the same time, as well as Kincaid in the slot. Quite a big difference between Davis and McKenzie as far as talent goes. 

 

Not to mention, I think everyone is greatly underestimating Deonte Harty. Beane didn't sign him on Day 1 of Free Agency to a multi year deal and outbid other teams for his services for him not to be used.

Yes.  The national talk all off-season was which WR needy NFL team was going to win the race to sign Deonte Harty.

[BillsFanForever19]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Yes.  The national talk all off-season was which WR needy NFL team was going to win the race to sign Deonte Harty.

 

That doesn't matter nor discount the fact that Beane targeted him on Day 1 of FA and gave him a multi year deal that was worth more than the 1 year, league minimum that he signed most others for.

 

You might not think anything of the signing. But Beane made him a priority. He's not a break glass in case of emergency depth guy. He will be used.

Edited June 19, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Doc Brown]

Just now, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

That doesn't matter nor discount the fact that Beane targeted him on Day 1 of FA and paid him more than the 1 year, league minimum than he signed most everyone else for.

 

You might not think anything of the signing. But Beane made him a priority. 

He did but there's no evidence he outbid other teams like you said he did.

[BillsFanForever19]

11 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He did but there's no evidence he outbid other teams like you said he did.

 

The fact that he paid him a 2 year, 9.5 million dollar deal with a 3 million bonus, 5.25 guaranteed and made him more expensive to cut than to keep in Year 1 says that.

 

Beane doesn't bid against himself. If Harty didn't have a market, he would have been signed for the minimum peanuts like most of the veterans we signed this offseason and wouldn't have happened on Day 1.

Edited June 19, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The fact that he paid him a 2 year, 9.5 million dollar deal with a 3 million bonus, 5.25 guaranteed and made him more expensive to cut than to keep in Year 1 says that.

 

Beane doesn't bid against himself. If Harty didn't have a market, he would have been signed for the minimum peanuts like most of the veterans we signed this offseason and wouldn't have happened on Day 1.

It shows they really wanted him.  It doesn't show other teams did.  They made an educated guess which is often the case at the start of free agency for any team.

[Paul Costa]

19 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It shows they really wanted him.  It doesn't show other teams did.  They made an educated guess which is often the case at the start of free agency for any team.

I disagree with this. Beane said he had a lot of teams competing against him for Harty’s services. You can not believe Beane that’s your prerogative. No reason for Beane to lie about a robust market for Harty. Don’t see your point. He’s tiny and if he doesn’t get hurt will be a valuable weapon the next couple of years. He’ll really open up things for others also. To me he’s going to be what we wanted McKenzie to be. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Paul Costa

[Paul Costa]

45 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The fact that he paid him a 2 year, 9.5 million dollar deal with a 3 million bonus, 5.25 guaranteed and made him more expensive to cut than to keep in Year 1 says that.

 

Beane doesn't bid against himself. If Harty didn't have a market, he would have been signed for the minimum peanuts like most of the veterans we signed this offseason and wouldn't have happened on Day 1.

Excellent point

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Except he’s gotten hurt every year… it’s equivalent to the Howard/Crowder signing of a year ago. A flyer/hope for the best type of signing, but not someone who should be relied upon given his history…

To the point from BFF19 his contract says he’s more than just a flyer. His contract is more than Howard & Crowder combined 

[eball]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What are you not understanding? 
 

Because Beane made him a priority signing means he’s some sort of big signing? Beane made signing Rodger Saffold, OJ Howard, and Jameson Crowder priorities too. How’d that work out?… and all 3 of those guys have more of an NFL pedigree than Harty as well. 

 

He said “priority.”  He didn’t say “big.”  Seems like you’re picking a fight just to be obstinate.

 

It’s also disingenuous to include Crowder on that list.  But for an injury he would almost certainly have contributed.

 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I think you're greatly downplaying how much of a reduction he'd have if Hopkins were on the field at the same time, as well as Kincaid in the slot. Quite a big difference between Davis and McKenzie as far as talent goes. 

 

Not to mention, I think everyone is greatly underestimating Deonte Harty. Beane didn't sign him on Day 1 of Free Agency to a multi year deal and outbid other teams for his services for him not to be used.

 

I would think it'd be a bit less than you're assuming here in amount of reduction he'd have. I'd say it probably wouldn't get to point of a major issue (especially scoring a lot).

 

And have heard quite often it's no big deal to Diggs because he just wants to win 

[BillsFanForever19]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What are you not understanding? 
 

Because Beane made him a priority signing means he’s some sort of big signing? Beane made signing Rodger Saffold, OJ Howard, and Jameson Crowder priorities too. How’d that work out?… and all 3 of those guys have more of an NFL pedigree than Harty as well. 
 

For some reason you think because Beane gave Harty a decent contract it somehow means he’s a good NFL WR… his history does not suggest ANY of that.

 

All of those guys were single year deals. Rodger Saffold started every game for us in that year. Jamison Crowder was lost for the year in the middle of Game 4.

 

OJ Howard was signed to a 1 year 3 million dollar deal. Not near the investment he put into Harty. And you like to constantly point to the release of Howard like it's a normal thing that happens all the time. It wasn't. That was a shock.

 

I'm not saying Harty will or won't be a star for us. What I'm saying is the kind of investment Beane made wouldn't have been made if he had no intention of having a role for him. He didn't target him on Day 1 with all the options available to him thinking "this is just a depth signing and I need to Draft a guy in the 1st and sign a Top 10 WR like Hopkins too".

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[StHustle]

Here’s an idea….How about Bills Mafia creates a GoFundMe for Hopkins. A million of us can all put in $10 and raise enough to supplement a low contract offer from Beane. We can call it a “Welcome to Buffalo” gift if he decides to move here by the end of August *wink wink

 

If he isn’t living in Buffalo by then we all get refunds.

 

Im joking but I’m not. Would be a creative way to sign a player for a low cap hit that would likely get banned after we do it.

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not picking a fight,  but this is the same thing fans did last year when talking about the WR corps… and were proven very wrong… yea…. who could’ve predicted a Crowder injury considering his most recent history? 😅

 

This team needs a #2 WR… not some depth signings with questionable NFL pedigrees…. They are relying on inconsistent Davis to really improve and rookie Kincaid to take the league by storm. I’m dubious, but tis the season for fans to overrate the off-season acquisitions.🍻

 

I understand where you're coming from here and see your point. But how do you feel about the WR position now compared to last season? Do you feel at least a small improvement or about the same or worse?

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Not to mention, I think everyone is greatly underestimating Deonte Harty. Beane didn't sign him on Day 1 of Free Agency to a multi year deal and outbid other teams for his services for him not to be used.

 

I like the Harty signing. His potential is tantalizing. But it is a high upside/high downside signing. His size combined with his injury history makes it very questionable that he will be a consistent contributor this year. If he happens to stay healthy all year it could be a home run signing. I'm just not counting on it. Plus we have had issues with Allen throwing the ball to smurfs in windy snowy conditions. I expect Harty to be more of a regular season contributor than a playoff contributor even in a best case scenario.

 

The point is Harty does nothing to solve the biggest problem in our passing offense last year, which was Davis getting the #2 target share. And I don't think Beane signed him expecting him to solve that problem. Every time Beane has talked about Hopkins publicly he has seemed almost exasperated. I think he was counting on Hopkins solving our #2 WR problem and is frustrated that they can't get on the same page with the contract. Beane knows it is a weakness but I'm sure he appreciates some fans doing their best to pretend it isn't.

[Billschinatown]

49 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

All of those guys were single year deals. Rodger Saffold started every game for us in that year. Jamison Crowder was lost for the year in the middle of Game 4.

 

OJ Howard was signed to a 1 year 3 million dollar deal. Not near the investment he put into Harty. And you like to constantly point to the release of Howard like it's a normal thing that happens all the time. It wasn't. That was a shock.

 

I'm not saying Harty will or won't be a star for us. What I'm saying is the kind of investment Beane made wouldn't have been made if he had no intention of having a role for him. He didn't target him on Day 1 with all the options available to him thinking "this is just a depth signing and I need to Draft a guy in the 1st and sign a Top 10 WR like Hopkins too".

 

 

I'll say it. He will be a star.

3 hours ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

It seems to be a foregone conclusion that this is Damar’s award this year. 
 

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/comeback-player-of-the-year/

I honestly think no chance. The thing  is....he was like serviceable at best when he played. He just really hit hard; but that was about it. 

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

Here’s an idea….How about Bills Mafia creates a GoFundMe for Hopkins. A million of us can all put in $10 and raise enough to supplement a low contract offer from Beane. We can call it a “Welcome to Buffalo” gift if he decides to move here by the end of August *wink wink

 

If he isn’t living in Buffalo by then we all get refunds.

 

Im joking but I’m not. Would be a creative way to sign a player for a low cap hit that would likely get banned after we do it.

 

 

 

The Salary Cap implications are the main issue with getting the contract done. If it didn't exist, Oil Baron Pegula would have no problem coming up with that money.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

The Salary Cap implications are the main issue with getting the contract done. If it didn't exist, Oil Baron Pegula would have no problem coming up with that money.

 

The salary cap can be massaged.  Restructure someone and give Hopkins an OBJ deal.

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

All of those guys were single year deals. Rodger Saffold started every game for us in that year. Jamison Crowder was lost for the year in the middle of Game 4.

 

OJ Howard was signed to a 1 year 3 million dollar deal. Not near the investment he put into Harty. And you like to constantly point to the release of Howard like it's a normal thing that happens all the time. It wasn't. That was a shock.

 

I'm not saying Harty will or won't be a star for us. What I'm saying is the kind of investment Beane made wouldn't have been made if he had no intention of having a role for him. He didn't target him on Day 1 with all the options available to him thinking "this is just a depth signing and I need to Draft a guy in the 1st and sign a Top 10 WR like Hopkins too".

 

 

The injury history isnt as significant as it appears strictly on paper. Will it work out? Hopefully, but if you dig below surface of injuries, they arent anywhere near as significant as posters writing 'hes played in x of y games stats.'

 

That said, Im 100% on board with make Hop Happen!

Edited June 20, 2023 by BillsShredder83

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I think you're greatly downplaying how much of a reduction he'd have if Hopkins were on the field at the same time, as well as Kincaid in the slot. Quite a big difference between Davis and McKenzie as far as talent goes. 

 

Not to mention, I think everyone is greatly underestimating Deonte Harty. Beane didn't sign him on Day 1 of Free Agency to a multi year deal and outbid other teams for his services for him not to be used. And Davis isn't going to go from Starter to being barely used at all either. 

 

The reduction would be noticable and he's already reportedly unhappy with what it was last season.

I sincerely dont think hed have any problem with it at all. Dude could have less targets /game, and end up with 20ypg more and a few extra tuddies. Plus the time frame he was pissed is when the offense was sputtering and we looked sloppy. If we were cranking out TDs non-stop, I dont think wed hear a peep.

 

The only real risk IMO, is if somehow DHOP didnt mend well with the Off, Diggs targets look similar, and offense sputters like it did again. Seems HIGHLYYYYY unlikely to happen IMO. Diggs can no longer be double teamed or fully gameplanned out. 

[BillsFanForever19]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The salary cap can be massaged.  Restructure someone and give Hopkins an OBJ deal.

 

The OBJ deal includes cap hits stretched out 3 years after his contract expires. May not be a concern to you, but if it wasn't to Beane, he'd have done it already. Probably would have thrown a 6th or 7th Arizona's way to simply Trade for him.

 

And actually, Hopkins himself doesn't seem interested in that. According to Tom Pelissero on the Rich Eisen show some weeks ago - Hopkins wasn't open to reworking his deal to involve something that didn't pay him up front and that's why they couldn't get a deal done:

 

 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I like the Harty signing. His potential is tantalizing. But it is a high upside/high downside signing. His size combined with his injury history makes it very questionable that he will be a consistent contributor this year. If he happens to stay healthy all year it could be a home run signing. I'm just not counting on it. Plus we have had issues with Allen throwing the ball to smurfs in windy snowy conditions. I expect Harty to be more of a regular season contributor than a playoff contributor even in a best case scenario.

 

The point is Harty does nothing to solve the biggest problem in our passing offense last year, which was Davis getting the #2 target share. And I don't think Beane signed him expecting him to solve that problem. Every time Beane has talked about Hopkins publicly he has seemed almost exasperated. I think he was counting on Hopkins solving our #2 WR problem and is frustrated that they can't get on the same page with the contract. Beane knows it is a weakness but I'm sure he appreciates some fans doing their best to pretend it isn't.

I’d buy “low floor” as he might not do much, but “high downside” isn’t my favorite as there’s not a ton of downside even if he flops 

[BillsFanForever19]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I like the Harty signing. His potential is tantalizing. But it is a high upside/high downside signing. His size combined with his injury history makes it very questionable that he will be a consistent contributor this year. If he happens to stay healthy all year it could be a home run signing. I'm just not counting on it. Plus we have had issues with Allen throwing the ball to smurfs in windy snowy conditions. I expect Harty to be more of a regular season contributor than a playoff contributor even in a best case scenario.

 

The point is Harty does nothing to solve the biggest problem in our passing offense last year, which was Davis getting the #2 target share. And I don't think Beane signed him expecting him to solve that problem. Every time Beane has talked about Hopkins publicly he has seemed almost exasperated. I think he was counting on Hopkins solving our #2 WR problem and is frustrated that they can't get on the same page with the contract. Beane knows it is a weakness but I'm sure he appreciates some fans doing their best to pretend it isn't.

 

I don't think he a.) Feels anything close to what you feel about Davis and the #2 position and b.) Feels that Harty alone was the answer. But that Kincaid AND Harty are, in conjunction with not only hoping, but expecting a better year out of Davis.

 

I think Beane seems "exasperated" because he's tired of being asked about it. If he wanted Hopkins as badly as you think he does, he'd make it happen. And I'm not "doing my best to pretend like it isn't". I'm just not saying "yeah - but" like you are to not 1, not 2, but 3 different players in Davis, Kincaid, and Harty when it comes to options outside of Diggs.

 

And that's not even talking about Dawson Knox, Khalil Shakir in his 2nd year, and pass catching backs like James Cook and Nyheim Hines. You're obsessed with the idea of who is the technical #2 instead of looking at the entirety of the pass catching weapons we have. If Davis is faltering, we have other options to go to that aren't Diggs.

Edited June 20, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Chaos]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I’d buy “low floor” as he might not do much, but “high downside” isn’t my favorite as there’s not a ton of downside even if he flops 

he is using about a reasonable chunk of salaray cap.  

[Patrick Duffy]

53 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Actually agree with this… and I think Beane will be proven wrong for the 2nd straight year with respect to receiving options for Josh.

 

I do think the slot position will be better and have better depth compared to last season...in which case could help the other areas to an extent 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Patrick Duffy

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

he is using about a reasonable chunk of salaray cap.  

If he plays out the contract about 2% ish on average… so completely spot on average for a 53 man roster? 
 

im not losing sleep 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

The OBJ deal includes cap hits stretched out 3 years after his contract expires. May not be a concern to you, but if it wasn't to Beane, he'd have done it already. Probably would have thrown a 6th or 7th Arizona's way to simply Trade for him.

 

And actually, Hopkins himself doesn't seem interested in that. According to Tom Pelissero on the Rich Eisen show some weeks ago - Hopkins wasn't open to reworking his deal to involve something that didn't pay him up front and that's why they couldn't get a deal done:

 

 

 

Yup, there are cap hits that continue for (actually 4) years after the 2023 season but Beane needs to swing for the fences.  And it's $15M upfront and a chance to be a FA next year.

[iccrewman112]

4 hours ago, StHustle said:

Here’s an idea….How about Bills Mafia creates a GoFundMe for Hopkins. A million of us can all put in $10 and raise enough to supplement a low contract offer from Beane. We can call it a “Welcome to Buffalo” gift if he decides to move here by the end of August *wink wink

 

If he isn’t living in Buffalo by then we all get refunds.

 

Im joking but I’m not. Would be a creative way to sign a player for a low cap hit that would likely get banned after we do it.

 

 

 

why should this get banned it is essential NIL for NCAA players.

 

sidenote I as a former collegiate athlete am not a fan of NIL.

[beerme1]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The salary cap can be massaged.  Restructure someone and give Hopkins an OBJ deal.

 

I agree. This is our shot. Use it.

Edited June 20, 2023 by beerme1

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, iccrewman112 said:

 

why should this get banned it is essential NIL for NCAA players.

 

sidenote I as a former collegiate athlete am not a fan of NIL.

Did you play a sport that made money or cost money? 

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Actually agree with this… and I think Beane will be proven wrong for the 2nd straight year with respect to receiving options for Josh.

 

You're operating as if there's no chance Davis can rebound after his first year as a starter dealing with injuries, Kincaid won't have a solid Rookie season, and Harty will underperform/won't stay healthy.

 

Maybe 1 or 2 of those things will happen. But all of them? I wouldn't bet on it. And that's not taking into account already having Diggs and Knox, solid pass catching RB's in Cook and Hines, as well as Wild Cards like Justin Shorter and Trent Sherfield.

 

This team has weapons.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You're operating as if there's no chance Davis can rebound after his first year as a starter dealing with injuries, Kincaid won't have a solid Rookie season, and Harty will underperform/won't stay healthy.

 

Maybe 1 or 2 of those things will happen. But all of them? I wouldn't bet on it. And that's not taking into account already having Diggs and Knox, solid pass catching RB's in Cook and Hines, as well as Wild Cards like Justin Shorter and Trent Sherfield.

 

This team has weapons.

Diggs a rookie and a bunch of crap.

[Doc Brown]

11 hours ago, Paul Costa said:

I disagree with this. Beane said he had a lot of teams competing against him for Harty’s services. You can not believe Beane that’s your prerogative. No reason for Beane to lie about a robust market for Harty. Don’t see your point. He’s tiny and if he doesn’t get hurt will be a valuable weapon the next couple of years. He’ll really open up things for others also. To me he’s going to be what we wanted McKenzie to be. 

Interesting.  I don't remember him saying that.  I take back everything he said if he did.

[BuffaloBillyG]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I like the Harty signing. His potential is tantalizing. But it is a high upside/high downside signing. His size combined with his injury history makes it very questionable that he will be a consistent contributor this year. If he happens to stay healthy all year it could be a home run signing. I'm just not counting on it. Plus we have had issues with Allen throwing the ball to smurfs in windy snowy conditions. I expect Harty to be more of a regular season contributor than a playoff contributor even in a best case scenario.

 

The point is Harty does nothing to solve the biggest problem in our passing offense last year, which was Davis getting the #2 target share. And I don't think Beane signed him expecting him to solve that problem. Every time Beane has talked about Hopkins publicly he has seemed almost exasperated. I think he was counting on Hopkins solving our #2 WR problem and is frustrated that they can't get on the same page with the contract. Beane knows it is a weakness but I'm sure he appreciates some fans doing their best to pretend it isn't.

Interesting. You believe our biggest problem in the passing game last year wasn't:

 

- Immediate IOL pressure forcing Allen to not have time 

- Getting next to nothing out of the slot position

- Allen playing most of the season with an injury to his throwing elbow

- Lack of creative routes/miscommunication on option routes between receivers 

 

But our biggest issue was a guy that averaged over 17 yards a catch had the #2 target share? 

 

 

[Dopey]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Interesting. You believe our biggest problem in the passing game last year wasn't:

 

- Immediate IOL pressure forcing Allen to not have time 

- Getting next to nothing out of the slot position

- Allen playing most of the season with an injury to his throwing elbow

- Lack of creative routes/miscommunication on option routes between receivers 

 

But our biggest issue was a guy that averaged over 17 yards a catch had the #2 target share? 

 

 

Some of you are really reaching for problems to B word about. Page 127 of a Hopkins thread delves into how bad our offense was/is. An offense that was 2nd in points per game. Not in the  AFCE , in the entire league. What a miserable place this can be. Perfection can be a goal, but it’s unattainable guys. Stop it. 
Second in points per game. In the entire league. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Dopey said:

Some of you are really reaching for problems to B word about. Page 127 of a Hopkins thread delves into how bad our offense was/is. An offense that was 2nd in points per game. Not in the  AFCE , in the entire league. What a miserable place this can be. Perfection can be a goal, but it’s unattainable guys. Stop it. 
Second in points per game. In the entire league. 

You can have a good offense and still have things to fix in it. Both can be true. Of the 4 things I listed do you not think any of them are valid and can't be improved upon? 

 

Which of those 4 are a "reach" according to you? 

[BarleyNY]

22 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Interesting. You believe our biggest problem in the passing game last year wasn't:

 

- Immediate IOL pressure forcing Allen to not have time 

- Getting next to nothing out of the slot position

- Allen playing most of the season with an injury to his throwing elbow

- Lack of creative routes/miscommunication on option routes between receivers 

 

But our biggest issue was a guy that averaged over 17 yards a catch had the #2 target share? 

 

 

 

Simply look at it this way: If Brandon Beane didn’t think that an upgrade at WR2 would significantly help this team, then why would be pursuing DHop? It probably will not work out, but it’s not like anyone thought he’d be cheap. I often (but not always) agree with Beane and certainly do in this case.

Edited June 20, 2023 by BarleyNY

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Simply look at it this way: If Brandon Beane didn’t think that an upgrade at WR2 would significantly help this team, then why would be pursuing DHop? It probably will not work out, but it’s not like anyone thought he’d be cheap. I often (but not always) agree with Beane and certainly do in this case.

I mean, would DHop be an upgrade on Davis? Potentially, sure. And a good GM will do his due diligence on every available player. Past that we really have no idea the extent that Beane pursued him. We have been informed they had talks but who really knows what came out of it? We all have theories, of course. 

 

But if Beane really felt that strongly that an upgrade on Davis was a top issue DHop or someone else would be on the team... expensive nor not.

[Dopey]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

You can have a good offense and still have things to fix in it. Both can be true. Of the 4 things I listed do you not think any of them are valid and can't be improved upon? 

 

Which of those 4 are a "reach" according to you? 

#s 2. Allen seemed to have a problem hitting his slot receivers and rb on check downs. It’s like he was all or nothing. Check down is your friend. He had plenty of opportunities he either missed or ignored. I’ve re-watched enough games to see it as a pattern. 
 

#4 you don’t know the calls, you’re not in the huddle, so this is just something you’re guessing on. Show me examples of miscommunication. Explain what the call was and where the miscommunication occurred. You can’t. You would be guessing. Or as I said “reaching “. 

[BarleyNY]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I mean, would DHop be an upgrade on Davis? Potentially, sure. And a good GM will do his due diligence on every available player. Past that we really have no idea the extent that Beane pursued him. We have been informed they had talks but who really knows what came out of it? We all have theories, of course. 

 

But if Beane really felt that strongly that an upgrade on Davis was a top issue DHop or someone else would be on the team... expensive nor not.

The Bills and Chefs were the only two teams to get far enough in the trade process with AZ that they sat down with DHop’s rep to try and work out a new contract/restructure. That is not just kicking the tires on an available player. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Dopey said:

#s 2. Allen seemed to have a problem hitting his slot receivers and rb on check downs. It’s like he was all or nothing. Check down is your friend. He had plenty of opportunities he either missed or ignored. I’ve re-watched enough games to see it as a pattern. 
 

#4 you don’t know the calls, you’re not in the huddle, so this is just something you’re guessing on. Show me examples of miscommunication. Explain what the call was and where the miscommunication occurred. You can’t. You would be guessing. Or as I said “reaching “. 

To your first point...that's a lot of words to type to say that "we got next to nothing from the slot position" as I stated. Now, Allen missed some things, absolutely. He even admits that. But Beane didn't release McKenzie, let Crowder walk, sign 2 potential guys that can contribute in the slot plus spend a 1st round pick to upgrade the position because it was all Allen's fault. 

 

To your second point, The Bills run a LOT of routes where the WR has an option of which route to run based on coverage. This is common knowledge and has been discussed by players and the coaching staff. I don't need to know the call to know if 2 guys end up in the same spot...there was a miscommunication/misread by someone. And it happened numerous times last year. 

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

The Bills and Chefs were the only two teams to get far enough in the trade process with AZ that they sat down with DHop’s rep to try and work out a new contract/restructure. That is not just kicking the tires on an available player. 

Oh, I agree. It was more than kicking the tires. However my point is if it was something that Beane viewed as a "must upgrade" the deal would have either got done then or shortly after DHop was released. I'm not saying the Bills wouldn't like him, but they aren't exactly going crazy trying to land him either. I do think that if Hopkins was released prior to Beane spending a 1st round pick on Kincaid there may have been more of a priority. 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

45 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

However my point is if it was something that Beane viewed as a "must upgrade" the deal would have either got done then or shortly after DHop was released

Not if you couldn't afford it. I'd like to upgrade my Ford for a Maybach...