Poona Ford signing with the Bills

[Billz4ever]

21 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

If you prefer length over girth 😉

Lower center of gravity and with that kind of weight will be hard for a OL to get leverage and move him out of the way.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 hours ago, Process said:

Very good signing. I'm interested to see the contract though. Rostering five vet DTs all making $3M+ per year doesn't seem like a great use of cap space. 

DT depth murdered us against cincy last year so it’s tough to dislike this signing 

[Billz4ever]

10 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

DT depth murdered us against cincy last year so it’s tough to dislike this signing 

Yep, I kind of figured as soon as I heard Daq was out for that game we'd have issues against the run.

 

Daq and Ford in the middle will make it much harder for teams to run inside against us, which was a true weak spot in this defense.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Billz4ever

[MasterStrategist]

54 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Random thoughts about Poona...

 

Poo graded out at 73 or better for his first three seasons on PFF.  70-84 on their scale is a "starter quality."  His rookie year, in limited action, he was a 90.  

 

Last year, he graded out at 56.  Apparently, he did not thrive as a 3-4 NT.   Though he did have 3 sacks, the most in his career. 

 

Obviously, he's better known as a run-stuffer than a sack artist.   According to an SI article written in 2021, "Ford's run defense grade ranks in the 85th percentile since breaking into the league as an undrafted rookie out of Texas in 2018."  

 

At aged 27 and back in a 4-3, we should see a Poo in his prime doing what we need him to do: clogging up the middle of the field.  

 

 

www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/pro-football-focus-ranks-seahawks-defensive-standouts-heading-towards-2021-season#:~:text=Poona%20Ford%20PFF%20Ranking%3A%2019th%20out%20of%2032,wasn%27t%20known%20for%20his%20interior%20pass%20rushing%20ability.

Agree, he should be better in our scheme.

 

However, he didn't play the traditional NT role as much LY (as you stated).  That was AL Woods role.  Poona was more often lined up at 3 or 3i, sometimes 5 technique.  Seattle was more versatile with their fronts last season, predominantly a 3-4 scheme, but still had some of their 4-3 under mixed in.

 

I'd expect Coach will utilize him most at 1-tech, but can be versatile.  Daquon isn't getting any younger and took on a large role for us LY, we needed someone who could take more rotation with him.

 

[daz28]

I wonder what the big tuna thinks of big Poona?

[MasterStrategist]

54 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Random thoughts about Poona...

 

Poo graded out at 73 or better for his first three seasons on PFF.  70-84 on their scale is a "starter quality."  His rookie year, in limited action, he was a 90.  

 

Last year, he graded out at 56.  Apparently, he did not thrive as a 3-4 NT.   Though he did have 3 sacks, the most in his career. 

 

Obviously, he's better known as a run-stuffer than a sack artist.   According to an SI article written in 2021, "Ford's run defense grade ranks in the 85th percentile since breaking into the league as an undrafted rookie out of Texas in 2018."  

 

At aged 27 and back in a 4-3, we should see a Poo in his prime doing what we need him to do: clogging up the middle of the field.  

 

 

www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/pro-football-focus-ranks-seahawks-defensive-standouts-heading-towards-2021-season#:~:text=Poona%20Ford%20PFF%20Ranking%3A%2019th%20out%20of%2032,wasn%27t%20known%20for%20his%20interior%20pass%20rushing%20ability.

Agree, he should be better in our scheme.

 

However, he didn't play the traditional NT role as much LY (as you stated).  That was AL Woods role.  Poona was more often lined up at 3 or 3i, sometimes 5 technique.  Seattle was more versatile with their fronts last season, predominantly a 3-4 scheme, but still had some of their 4-3 under mixed in.

 

I'd expect Coach will utilize him most at 1-tech, but can be versatile.  Daquon isn't getting any younger and took on a large role for us LY, we needed someone who could take more rotation with him.

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

To the “pay Ed Oliver” crowd .. 

 

Does it not concern you that we apparently need a 1-2 rotation of above average 1T’s next to Oliver to, hopefully, unlock his potential?

 

If he goes off, great … that’s not someone you pay.  That’s a luxury we won’t be able to afford.   

I don't think his potential needs unlocked, rather he needs to be more consistent. 

 

Not an excuse, but he had below-average talent lining up at 1-tech, until LY.   Not to mention our DEs struggled prior to LY, and after Vin went down.

 

His injuries LY didn't help either, his ankle was worse than originally reported and he battled throughout the season just like other guys up front.

 

Daquon and Poona are good/solid players, but not like either are superstars. I wouldn't say we're investing into a 1-tech to unlock Ed's potential.

 

Not easy finding disruptive 3-tech DTs, and while Ed isn't Aaron Donald, he is a very good player in his own regard and what he's asked to do.  

 

Beane, unsolicited, has brought up the desire to retain Ed long term.  I think they'll try to get this done before the season, I'm expecting Ed to have a great year (if he can stay healthy)

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Poona Ford was one of the guys I wanted

 

The guy is a legitimate nose tackle and an absolute fire hydrant. You can’t move him.

 

He is the kind of player that you can put in front of smaller linebackers and be successful

[Shemp]

"Mini" Ted Washington?

[John from Riverside]

24 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree, he should be better in our scheme.

 

However, he didn't play the traditional NT role as much LY (as you stated).  That was AL Woods role.  Poona was more often lined up at 3 or 3i, sometimes 5 technique.  Seattle was more versatile with their fronts last season, predominantly a 3-4 scheme, but still had some of their 4-3 under mixed in.

 

I'd expect Coach will utilize him most at 1-tech, but can be versatile.  Daquon isn't getting any younger and took on a large role for us LY, we needed someone who could take more rotation with him.

I don't think his potential needs unlocked, rather he needs to be more consistent. 

 

Not an excuse, but he had below-average talent lining up at 1-tech, until LY.   Not to mention our DEs struggled prior to LY, and after Vin went down.

 

His injuries LY didn't help either, his ankle was worse than originally reported and he battled throughout the season just like other guys up front.

 

Daquon and Poona are good/solid players, but not like either are superstars. I wouldn't say we're investing into a 1-tech to unlock Ed's potential.

 

Not easy finding disruptive 3-tech DTs, and while Ed isn't Aaron Donald, he is a very good player in his own regard and what he's asked to do.  

 

Beane, unsolicited, has brought up the desire to retain Ed long term.  I think they'll try to get this done before the season, I'm expecting Ed to have a great year (if he can stay healthy)

 

 

I think there’s a better chance of us retaining at all over there and there was a retaining Tremaine Edmunds, but we’re gonna have to see on that the market can be ridiculous
 

For this year or set a defensive tackle now let’s get some pass rush help

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, stlbills13 said:

I'm not trying to overreact to a guy who may not even play 50% of the snaps but this is a Super Bowl winning move to me. The top teams live off short term moves like this every year 

You're not doing a very good job of it.  LOL.  It's probably my favorite free agent signing that wasn't one of our own last year.  Even before this signing the only thing preventing this roster from winning the Super Bowl is injuries.  Same as last year.

[hondo in seattle]

44 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree, he should be better in our scheme.

 

However, he didn't play the traditional NT role as much LY (as you stated).  That was AL Woods role.  Poona was more often lined up at 3 or 3i, sometimes 5 technique.  Seattle was more versatile with their fronts last season, predominantly a 3-4 scheme, but still had some of their 4-3 under mixed in.

 

I'd expect Coach will utilize him most at 1-tech, but can be versatile.  Daquon isn't getting any younger and took on a large role for us LY, we needed someone who could take more rotation with him.

 

 

My mistake.  Thanks for correcting.  But still interesting that his PFF grade dropped when he went to 3-4.  Seems to perform better in a 4-3.  And while it would be ideal if he excelled at getting after the QB as well as stuffing RBs, I'm glad he's a solid force against the run.  We've been soft in the middle - he helps solve that.  

[The Wiz]

11 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

My mistake.  Thanks for correcting.  But still interesting that his PFF grade dropped when he went to 3-4.  Seems to perform better in a 4-3.  And while it would be ideal if he excelled at getting after the QB as well as stuffing RBs, I'm glad he's a solid force against the run.  We've been soft in the middle - he helps solve that.  

Sal discussed this a little bit earlier after the signing.

 

 

 

 

Oh and we don't need a nickname thread if anyone feels like staying one, they call him "poo"

 

 

 

[Bills!Win!]

Does the average fan know who this guy is? I only watch the bills 

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

Does the average fan know who this guy is? I only watch the bills 

 

Can I ask you again this time next year?   😋

 

I have no idea about this guy, but I like that he started about 4 years, and he’s still “young” at 27. 

 

 

.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Augie

[hondo in seattle]

14 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

Does the average fan know who this guy is? I only watch the bills 

 

I'm with you.  I don't watch many NFL games that don't involve the Bills.  But I lived in Seattle a couple years ago so, yeah, I know Poo a little.  Mostly, I know him from reading about the D Linemen that were available in free agency because I was hoping we'd get one.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, babulator said:

Pretty excited about this one. I know he's a "run stopper" but he get's pretty good penetration too. I also like Daquan, feeling pretty good about the 1T.

 

I'm a Jordan P. fan but it was tough watching him down the stretch last year with that gimp arm. If we have to make room somewhere I think I keep Oliver & Settle over Jordan at 3T @ this point. Availability and upside and all.

 

 

If they want to nurse a season out of Phillips they might have to limit him to 10-15 or so snaps a game.    He can't stay healthy with a 40%-50% kinda' snap count.    The Bills aren't big on "designated pass rushers" but that's probably his worth to the team.   Lousy run defender anyway.

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I'm really hoping for a MLB that doesn't need to be kept spotless. Instincts would be a nice change.

 

Probably not going to get that this year. The scouting report on Dorian Williams reads like a poor man's version of Edmunds - sideline to sideline range, but slow to process. Dodson isn't much of a processor. Bernard didn't looked he belonged on the field at all last year.

 

I can't help but come back to Milano as the only guy on the roster that makes sense as a MLB. Beane shut the idea down early in the offseason, but maybe they've changed their tune after seeing how FA and the draft went? Maybe the idea is get some big bodies in front of Milano so he won't get steamrolled and let his processing be enough to make up for his size. I can stomach the idea of Dorian Williams or even Bernard as the will. I just can't think of any other LB combination that makes sense.

 

6 hours ago, Rigotz said:

This signing makes me more certain we’re gonna try Bernard at MLB.

 

You need big DT’s if you’re gonna use small LBs who struggle to disengage blockers.

 

So then why not just put Milano at MLB? If Bernard is supposedly a Milano clone, but not nearly as developed, wouldn't it make sense to put the better player at the more important position?

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by HappyDays

[Chandler#81]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

Helluva pick up-  let’s see how much!

 

once we passed on a DT in the draft I was crossing my fingers that we could make this happen. 

Well, we Know how much. It’s the signing bonus where the big cash shows. That’s from Terry.

[The Wiz]

25 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'm with you.  I don't watch many NFL games that don't involve the Bills.  But I lived in Seattle a couple years ago so, yeah, I know Poo a little.  Mostly, I know him from reading about the D Linemen that were available in free agency because I was hoping we'd get one.  

Lived?

 

Next thing you're gonna tell me it's your names not actually Hondo.

 

Say it ain't so!?!?

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Surely the end for Tim Settle? Poona and Daquan as the 1T, Ed and Big Phil at 3T. 

 

I think we will keep 5 DTs this year. We had a rash of injuries at the position last year so I think Beane will play it extra safe. An easy spot to make up the difference is at TE, just carry 2 and leave Morris on the PS. Or at RB, carry 3 (plus Gilliam) and leave Murray on the PS. DT isn't a position you want to suddenly find yourself thin at. Anyways it would cost more to cut Settle than to keep him.

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Surely the end for Tim Settle? Poona and Daquan as the 1T, Ed and Big Phil at 3T. 

 

But still 0 DTs signed beyond 2023.

Big Phil?  More like Big Inactive.  
 

love the guy.  Love what he brings out there when he’s healthy, but we can’t count on him staying healthy.  Dude is always injured

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, Bills!Win! said:

Does the average fan know who this guy is? I only watch the bills 

He’s really good his PFF grades prior to last year are pro bowl level he suffered cause they changed their defense to something he doesn’t really do as well. 
He really is a nice pickup for the defense  and will greatly help stuff the run. 

[Sierra Foothills]

11 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Great, a 27 year old Ford

We will be lucky if he makes it to camp...

 

Found On Road Dead... Fix Or Repair Daily... and of course the ever popular "They circled the problem."

 

 

Actually my 2013 F-150 with over 200K miles is a STUD and my Chevy pickup was a piece of crap.

 

11 hours ago, mrags said:

RIP Buffalo Bill Welter 

 

The founder of Buffalo Wild Wings believed in treating his employees well. Unlike most of the corporacrats Welter didn't want to exploit his workers and felt that they were just as important as his customers, his executives, and the shareholders... a view not held by most executives in big business.

 

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Damn. That’s a thicc boi 

 

Does this mean he's... phat?

 

10 hours ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

Hes a load, shorter but plays with great leverage and hand technique. Hard to get inside of his pads. 

 

9 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Waita minnut pro football reference has him at 5'11", 310 lbs - isn't he UNDERSIZED?

 

 

6 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

“5 feet 11 and 310 pounds, he is one of the most uniquely shaped defensive tackles but with the wingspan of a 6-foot-8 human being. The shorter base and long arms help him keep defenders off his pads while holding his ground. Ford seems like a terrific fit for the one-technique position in the Bills’ defensive scheme, which is also Jones’ natural spot. Ford will likely be a core rotational defensive tackle” - Joe B The Athletic

 

Rock climbers are measured by a body ratio known as the "Ape Index." It's the number derived from dividing wingspan by height. The famous rock climber Alex Honnold, immortalized in the documentary "Free Solo" has an ape index of 1.04 which is a minimum value for most world class rock climbers.

 

3rd round LB Dorian Williams is 73" tall and has a 80.5" wingspan giving him an ape index of 1.10

 

Poona Ford is 71" tall and has an 80.25" wingspan giving him an ape index of 1.13

 

You can see in the video how Ford consistently uses his wingspan to keep at arms length and shed blockers... and of course he has that very low center of gravity which makes him difficult to move.

 

9 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I thought Ingram was totally washed… until he became an absolute terror against us. If that is the version we would be getting, I would be on board.

 

Interestingly the only criticism of Melvin Ingram as an NFL prospect was that he was short-armed: 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/12/melvin-ingram-thinks-the-questions-about-his-arm-length-are-silly/

 

Another player who was discounted because many thought he wasn't a "long enough" athlete was the great pass rusher Elvis Dumervill who stood only 5'11" tall. This didn't stop him from compiling 105 career sacks. The fact that his arms were 32.75" and his wingspan 78" (giving him an ape index of almost 1.10) was virtually overlooked causing him to slide into the 4th round despite his dominating collegiate career.

 

In many sports, having long arms and a big wingspan is an advantage... and more than makes up for "being short."

Edited May 3, 2023 by Sierra Foothills

[stevewin]

16 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

DO YOU HEAR ME TALKIN' ATCHA??

 

 

 

Lol - my friends and I must have worn the grooves flat on Cat Scratch Fever album as a kid.

 

'I got it right in my hands just for you baby.  I think I'm gonna yank on it one time. Look Out!!!' 

 

(He's talking about his guitar, people! )

Edited May 3, 2023 by stevewin

[mrags]

12 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Found On Road Dead... Fix Or Repair Daily... and of course the ever popular "They circled the problem."

 

 

Actually my 2013 F-150 with over 200K miles is a STUD and my Chevy pickup was a piece of crap.

 

 

The founder of Buffalo Wild Wings believed in treating his employees well. Unlike most of the corporacrats Welter didn't want to exploit his workers and felt that they were just as important as his customers, his executives, and the shareholders... a view not held by most executives in big business.

 

 

Does this mean he's... phat?

 

 

 

 

Rock climbers are measured by a body ratio known as the "Ape Index." It's the number derived from dividing wingspan by height. The famous rock climber Alex Honnold, immortalized in the documentary "Free Solo" has an ape index of 1.04 which is a minimum value for most world class rock climbers.

 

3rd round LB Dorian Williams is 73" tall and has a 80.5" wingspan giving him an ape index of 1.10

 

Poona Ford is 71" tall and has an 80.25" wingspan giving him an ape index of 1.13

 

You can see in the video how Ford consistently uses his wingspan to keep at arms length and shed blockers... and of course he has that very low center of gravity which makes him difficult to move.

 

 

Interestingly the only criticism of Melvin Ingram as an NFL prospect was that he was short-armed: 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/12/melvin-ingram-thinks-the-questions-about-his-arm-length-are-silly/

 

Another player who was discounted because many thought he wasn't a "long enough" athlete was the great pass rusher Elvis Dumervill who stood only 5'11" tall. This didn't stop him from compiling 105 career sacks. The fact that his arms were 32.75" and his wingspan 78" (giving him an ape index of almost 1.10) was virtually overlooked causing him to slide into the 4th round despite his dominating collegiate career.

 

In many sports, having long arms and a big wingspan is an advantage.

He wasn’t the founder of BWW.  It he was a franchise owner. In the Las Vegas area he owned all of the locations until he sold his franchise to BWW corporate. 
 

yes. He was a very good man. He treated his employees like family. 

[Pirate Angel]

Maybe this guy can show Oliver where the backfield is 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 hours ago, Codyny13 said:

Ed probably benefits from this more than anyone. He needs a big 1 tech next to him to chew up blockers so he can get after the qb.

So he can walk as a UFA next year? Great strategy. If we think he’s good then sign him.

7 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

You've made that abundantly clear in multiple threads. I disagree. This thread is also about Poona, not Oliver. 

It’s definitely about Oliver in multiple ways.

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, Process said:

Very good signing. I'm interested to see the contract though. Rostering five vet DTs all making $3M+ per year doesn't seem like a great use of cap space. 

May be they can cut Tim Settle

[Buffalo_Stampede]

47 minutes ago, ganesh said:

May be they can cut Tim Settle

He took a pay cut restructure in the offseason so very unlikely. 
 

Options at DT, from most likely to least likely:

 

1) Keep Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, and Settle on 1 year deals.
 

2) Keep all 5 and extend Jones

 

3) Trade Oliver

 

4) Keep all 5 and extend Jones and Oliver

 

5) Keep all 5 and extend Oliver

 

6) Release Phillips or Settle

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[CaptnCoke11]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

May be they can cut Tim Settle

No need to cut any of them 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

May be they can cut Tim Settle

 

 Probably not happening. It would cost almost a million more to cut him this year vs keeping him.

 

 

[mjt328]

10 hours ago, Adam727 said:

$11mil in free cap space that we can hopefully use to re-sign Micah Hyde next year.  And probably a day 3 draft pick.  I like Oliver I just don't think the Bills can afford him right now.  

 

Trading Ed Oliver gets us extra cap space for 2023.  Probably not quite that much, since you also need to spend something to sign a decent replacement.  Assuming there is still anyone out there on the market.

 

If you are worried about re-signing Micah Hyde in 2024, then just don't give Oliver a long-term extension.  If he walks in free agency, then we have that extra cap space available next year regardless.

 

Looking to the future is great.  But at some point, you do need to think about fielding the best team today.  We already have a huge question mark in the middle of our defense at linebacker.  Do we really want to downgrade our D-Line too, just for some extra cap space?

 

[Warcodered]

 

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

No need to cut any of them 

Exaftly-  we definitely need all of them. 

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Trading Ed Oliver gets us extra cap space for 2023.  Probably not quite that much, since you also need to spend something to sign a decent replacement.  Assuming there is still anyone out there on the market.

 

If you are worried about re-signing Micah Hyde in 2024, then just don't give Oliver a long-term extension.  If he walks in free agency, then we have that extra cap space available next year regardless.

 

Looking to the future is great.  But at some point, you do need to think about fielding the best team today.  We already have a huge question mark in the middle of our defense at linebacker.  Do we really want to downgrade our D-Line too, just for some extra cap space?

 

 

I think we're pretty well stocked beyond this year, in terms of multi-year contracts, at:

 

EDGE - Von, Rousseau, Basham

LB - Milano, Williams, Bernard, Spector (I do think Williams could become a good MLB here, eventually)

CB - Tre, Elam, Benford, Johnson

OT - Dawkins, Brown, Doyle

IOL - Morse, McGovern, Torrence, Bates

TE - Knox, Kincaid

WR - Diggs, Harty, Shakir, Shorter

RB - Cook

QB - Allen

 

DT and S jump off the page as positions that will need future investment after this year, with EDGE, OT, WR and RB looking like they will need some financial and/or draft resources as well.   Morse and Tre are my wild cards after this year, depending on how they perform this year. 

 

At DT, I'd love to extend Jones and then get a look at Poona Ford to see if he's the second piece we extend.  Phillips, Settle and Oliver after this year.. meh, we'll see. 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by SCBills

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Probably not going to get that this year. The scouting report on Dorian Williams reads like a poor man's version of Edmunds - sideline to sideline range, but slow to process. Dodson isn't much of a processor. Bernard didn't looked he belonged on the field at all last year.

 

Maybe this is the best hope for both instinctive and athletic enough

 

Look good in preseason last year.    

[WideNine]

We needed this.

 

A run-stopping, blocker eating, 1-tech that can spell Jones and perhaps keep him fresh and healthy down the stretch.

 

Having that deal in the works helps me understand why Beane did not make any moves to shore that position via the draft.

 

Hopefully he pans out better than Settle did at filling that role.

 

 

 

[HomeTeam]

This is a massive get. We needed another big body to anchor the defense. Him turning down more money to come to buffalo has already endeared him to my heart.

 

Go Bills!

[blacklabel]

They love it when you call him Big Poona...

[BillsPride12]

50 minutes ago, HomeTeam said:

This is a massive get. We needed another big body to anchor the defense. Him turning down more money to come to buffalo has already endeared him to my heart.

 

Go Bills!

Seems like he has a great personality.  Will be a perfect fit for our locker room and community