I’d like to see the Bills bring back Shaq Lawson and pay him fairly.

[ddaryl]

Shaq is solid depth, and the fact that he has not been signed by anyone already pretty much says he isn't getting much if any pay raise to play in Buffalo if the Bills do decide to resign him

[That's No Moon]

He's a JAG and will get a one year JAG deal.

[Momma Pecoraro]

Bring back Ichabod!

[RyanC883]

13 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Nothing against Shaq as he played solid, but if we bring him back we are literally running it back with the same D line as last year that wasn’t good enough in the first place.

 

Add on Von coming off of an acl tear.

 

 

 

fair point.  But who else is out there at this time?  Right now we have a worse DL than last year because we are missing a key rotational player.  Not sure we will draft one better because we need to focus on OL, WR, LB, S.  

[Einstein's Dog]

13 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Nothing against Shaq as he played solid, but if we bring him back we are literally running it back with the same D line as last year that wasn’t good enough in the first place.

 

Add on Von coming off of an acl tear.

 

But last year, when healthy, the DL line was a strength.  At the beginning of the season, the front 4 was a force and a big reason we were Superbowl favorites.  If we could run back that unit, I'd take it all day.  Unfortunately, Shaq is one who with age isn't likely to get much better.

 

The DL has been a heavily invested unit for the Bills, don't expect a large investment monetarily at this time.

 

For the semi-long term, the FO may consider bringing in a draft pick for youth in the unit.  If they get a quality prospect, Shaq may not be needed.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Well its week 3 now of FA and everyone is down to 1-year contracts, so his price his low. 

 

No other teams have jumped on him, so the market has spoken.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

The Bills will sign Lawson most likely, use #27 on a MLB, and essentially run this back with the same team. 

 

I don't understand why the Bills wouldn't sign Lawson at this point. 

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

17 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

He was a great soldier last year when we needed defensive help the most. He wants to be here and it would help keep continuity on the DL imo. I’m surprise this hasn’t happened yet, it looks like the money is the issue right now but with a little bit of effort this should get done fairly easily. A 1 year contract like Jordan Phillips’, would make the most sense at this time, you know with the salary restrictions that the Bills are currently facing. I’d also like to see this thread become a petition to help make this cause happen but if anybody disagrees then I’d like to know the reason(s) why, everybody has a right to their opinion so please let’s hear the pros and cons. Bring back Shaq!

 

Why is it "fair" to pay Shaq like he's Jordan Phillips?

 

After leaving the Bills and taking the big money in Miami, Lawson played himself off three different teams: Miami traded him to Houston, who traded him to the Jets, the Jets cut him before their final game of the season.   I don't know the story there, but there has to be one.

 

The bottom line is he didn't have a market last off season which is why he signed with the Bills for pretty close to vet minimum. 

 

Phillips, on the other hand and despite what some folks say here, must have a market, which is why the Bills paid him more last season and signed him earlier in the process this season.   If his contract actually counts as $4.6M, he'd be the #10 FA DT signed this season. If his contract actually counts as $3M, he's #14. (For some reason he's listed as a DE, where he's #15)  If he was healthy and had a history of staying healthier during the season, he might get more but he isn't and he doesn't. 

 

Same thing with Lawson: if he didn't have his history of doing whatever he did that made teams move on from him, he would get more, but he does have that history.

 

My guess is that the Bills have a similar offer out to Shaq as they offered him last season, and he's waiting to sign it because he wants more, but so far no one is offering.

 

You say you want to know the reasons, but I'd like to know the reasons why the Bills should give Shaq Lawson a Jordan Phillips size contract because he wants more?

You also mention "keeping continuity on DL", but if the DL wasn't good enough last season, how can we improve it by keeping continuity?  You can't improve things by keeping them the same!!!!

 

[gonzo1105]

The Bills can do better than him. I'm not against the idea of bringing him back but I'm not paying him beyond a 1 year deal which is probably what he wants is a multi year deal. 

[Jay_Fixit]

13 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Strange poyer was signed before Lawson 

Because Poyer is good. Lawson is not.

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

fair point.  But who else is out there at this time?  Right now we have a worse DL than last year because we are missing a key rotational player.  Not sure we will draft one better because we need to focus on OL, WR, LB, S.  

for sure, I get it.

 

I guess my frustration is more signing Phillips back and Boogie and AJ being disappointing.

 

I have nothing against Shaq and he’s fine as your DE 5. (But plays as their 3rd)

[BarleyNY]

21 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

for sure, I get it.

 

I guess my frustration is more signing Phillips back and Boogie and AJ being disappointing.

 

I have nothing against Shaq and he’s fine as your DE 5. (But plays as their 3rd)

 

That’s fair. I do think they should re-sign Shaq if he’ll take vet min with a VSB kicker. (Veteran Signing Benefit, which does not count against the salary cap.)

 

The Bills typically roster 5 DEs for the season. Right now they have Miller, Rousseau, Basham, Epenesa and some guys who probably won’t make the 53. With Miller unlikely (or at least uncertain) to play at the start of the season we need depth that can get on the field week 1.

 

I am happy to see a draft pick and/or another vet added. Even with both there’d be room for Lawson early in the season. Upon Miller’s return - and if there hasn’t been an injury to the unit - we can cut the weakest depth player. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by BarleyNY

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

Nothing personal against Lawson, but if you were to re-sign him, considering that you can only have so many active DEs and the rest of the D is essentially the same minus Edmunds, where would the upgrade to the pass rush be coming from? McD defensive genius alone?

[billsfan89]

The Bills need another body at DE and could do worse than bringing back Shaq on a one year deal. I think likely that will happen they already brought back Phillips so I think it is just a matter of time.

[ColoradoBills]

21 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

He’ll get same contract he got last year if not less.  If he wants more no thanks 

 

His cap hit was $1.045M last year.  It doesn't go lower than minimum.

 

Shaq had 3.5 sacks on 9 QB hits, a forced fumble, 6 tackles for losses and a defended pass.  He outplayed his money with his 44% snap count.

[Plano]

I agree to an extent. 

 

Definitely a 1 or 2 year deal, incentivized.

 

He has some fire, it all depends on the deal. 

[Simon Says]

'Fair" is subjective and ultimately, up to the player. If he thinks an offer is fair, he signs it...

[dpberr]

You get the best out of some football players on 1-year contracts.  Shaq Lawson (and Jordan Phillips) are examples of such players.  Each had their career year in a contract year, with a lot of average around those years.

 

 

[RochesterLifer]

The market determines what is fair pay for Shaq. If the market decides he is worth more, he'll go else where. He hasn't yet, which tells us he was paid fairly.

[DapperCam]

11 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Why is it "fair" to pay Shaq like he's Jordan Phillips?

 

After leaving the Bills and taking the big money in Miami, Lawson played himself off three different teams: Miami traded him to Houston, who traded him to the Jets, the Jets cut him before their final game of the season.   I don't know the story there, but there has to be one.

 

The bottom line is he didn't have a market last off season which is why he signed with the Bills for pretty close to vet minimum. 

 

Phillips, on the other hand and despite what some folks say here, must have a market, which is why the Bills paid him more last season and signed him earlier in the process this season.   If his contract actually counts as $4.6M, he'd be the #10 FA DT signed this season. If his contract actually counts as $3M, he's #14. (For some reason he's listed as a DE, where he's #15)  If he was healthy and had a history of staying healthier during the season, he might get more but he isn't and he doesn't. 

 

Same thing with Lawson: if he didn't have his history of doing whatever he did that made teams move on from him, he would get more, but he does have that history.

 

My guess is that the Bills have a similar offer out to Shaq as they offered him last season, and he's waiting to sign it because he wants more, but so far no one is offering.

 

You say you want to know the reasons, but I'd like to know the reasons why the Bills should give Shaq Lawson a Jordan Phillips size contract because he wants more?

You also mention "keeping continuity on DL", but if the DL wasn't good enough last season, how can we improve it by keeping continuity?  You can't improve things by keeping them the same!!!!

 

Lawson bouncing around the league was more about cost than him not being good enough to play. Jets fans said he was okay, but not worth his contract. He’d be getting a minimal contract for a vet rotational player, so it’s a totally different situation. McBeane will probably only bring him back if they don’t like the youth on the team to plug his spot.

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

That’s fair. I do think they should re-sign Shaq if he’ll take vet min with a VSB kicker. (Veteran Signing Bonus, which does not count against the salary cap.)

 

What is this?  I am unfamiliar with a "VSB kicker"  or Veteran Signing Bonus which does not count against the salary cap

 

What I'm familiar with is called "Veteran Cap Benefit" or "Veteran Salary Benefit", in which a player with 4 or more credited seasons signs at vet minimum for those seasons, but only counts against the cap for the minimum salary of a 2nd year player, plus any bonuses.  There is also a limit on the amount of bonuses that can be paid on such a contract, and the bonuses also count against the cap.

 

On the Bills at present, Kyle Allen, Matt Barkley, and Ike Boettger appear to have such contracts.  The way to tell is if their cap hit is less than their salary+bonus.

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Lawson bouncing around the league was more about cost than him not being good enough to play.

 

It may not have been about his play; it may have been about behavior in the locker room or meeting rooms or towards the coaches, or perceived effort.

 

Consider: Shaq Lawson had a 3 year, $30M contract with the Fins, $21M fully guaranteed at signing, and they traded him after 1 year for a LB who was a disappointment to the Texans.  I think Miami ate a bunch of $$ on that - $4M signing bonus, $2.5M roster bonus.  But, they shed his $8.9M salary so you could be right that was a cap move.

 

The Texans then took on Lawson's guaranteed salary and converted it to signing bonus in April, then traded him to the Jets for a 6th round pick before the season, thus eating his signing bonus.  They clearly ate a bunch of $$ on that, and there's gotta be a reason.

 

The Jets then cut him before the last game of the season.  Who does that?  You don't cut a guy before the final game of the season if it's "about cost".  You're not saving that much $$.  You're doing it to send a message to the LR.

 

 

30 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Jets fans said he was okay, but not worth his contract. He’d be getting a minimal contract for a vet rotational player, so it’s a totally different situation. McBeane will probably only bring him back if they don’t like the youth on the team to plug his spot.

 

Agree he'll likely be getting a minimum contract here, but the OP was about re-signing him for what the Bills gave Phillips: $3M or $4.2M or whatever.

[Thurman#1]

On 4/3/2023 at 5:56 AM, Tipster19 said:

He was a great soldier last year when we needed defensive help the most. He wants to be here and it would help keep continuity on the DL imo. I’m surprise this hasn’t happened yet, it looks like the money is the issue right now but with a little bit of effort this should get done fairly easily. A 1 year contract like Jordan Phillips’, would make the most sense at this time, you know with the salary restrictions that the Bills are currently facing. I’d also like to see this thread become a petition to help make this cause happen but if anybody disagrees then I’d like to know the reason(s) why, everybody has a right to their opinion so please let’s hear the pros and cons. Bring back Shaq!

 

 

While it's idiotic to think he's a league minimum player, and while he's a good soldier, there's a reason he's still available.

 

The market is pretty good at making sure guys get fair contracts. Not perfect. But pretty damn good. Shaq was tough, he worked hard, but he didn't display much of the glamour skills at DE that get guys paid at a high level at DE.

 

He'll get a contract somewhere, maybe even here, but it won't be for a lot, and there's a reason for that. $1.5M for a year, maybe? He's got value, but he's not much of a pass rusher and that's what everyone is looking for primarily.

[BarleyNY]

9 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

What is this?  I am unfamiliar with a "VSB kicker"  or Veteran Signing Bonus which does not count against the salary cap

 

What I'm familiar with is called "Veteran Cap Benefit" or "Veteran Salary Benefit", in which a player with 4 or more credited seasons signs at vet minimum for those seasons, but only counts against the cap for the minimum salary of a 2nd year player, plus any bonuses.  There is also a limit on the amount of bonuses that can be paid on such a contract, and the bonuses also count against the cap.

 

On the Bills at present, Kyle Allen, Matt Barkley, and Ike Boettger appear to have such contracts.  The way to tell is if their cap hit is less than their salary+bonus.

Yes, I meant Veteran Signing Benefit, not Veteran Signing Bonus. So sorry for the confusion that caused you. 

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Yes, I meant Veteran Signing Benefit, not Veteran Signing Bonus. So sorry for the confusion that caused you. 

 

It was the part about not counting against the salary cap which confused me.

 

That would increase the market for veteran players FRFR

Edited April 4, 2023 by Beck Water

[BarleyNY]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

It was the part about not counting against the salary cap which confused me.

 

That would increase the market for veteran players FRFR

It didn’t look right when I typed it. I should’ve double checked it. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

On 4/2/2023 at 5:41 PM, Airseven said:

I was surprised by Lawson last season. He still has some fire left. Would’ve preferred to bring him back instead of Phillips.

Phillips is a good rotational DL, as long as he can stay healthy.  I am hoping has enough time to fully heal before this season.. That said, I would like to have Lawson back as well.  

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

While it's idiotic to think he's a league minimum player, and while he's a good soldier, there's a reason he's still available.

 

Last year the league minimum for a player with 6 credited seasons was $1.035M

Last year Shaq Lawson's contract with the Bills was for $1.035M with a $152k signing bonus

 

And in fact, he only counted $1.047 against the Bills cap instead of $1.187M (salary plus bonus) a situation called "Vet Salary Benefit" where teams sign a vet but he only counts what a 2nd year player would count against their cap.

 

So I'm not sure what's "idiotic" about thinking Lawson is a league minimum player, when in fact, last season, that's what he was.

 

I think part of the question is to what extent Lawson is, indeed, a "good soldier"

When a team makes a guy a substantial FA signing, then trades him out the door a year later, that's typically not the sign of a good soldier.

Then when the trade partner trades him off for a late round pick before the season, that's also a sign something's amiss

Then when the 3rd team cuts him just before the end of the season - That's a kick in the pants saying we'd rather elevate a PS guy then keep you in the building.

 

He seems to do well on the Bills though. 

 

He's not the dominating player we hoped for when Rex drafted him in the 1st round in 2016, but he has football talent. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Beck Water

[ColoradoBills]

I would venture to say that Shaq Lawson will probably get signed under the vet salary benefit program after the draft.

There always is a chance that a DE on Beane's board is sticking out in the 5th or 6th rounds and that may affect his signing.

 

With Von Miller having a good chance of starting the season on PUP (or is on the team to start the season but not active), I see Shaq

as a good possibility of making the team (at least to begin with).  If anything, he is a good yardstick for a younger guy to beat out in camp.

 

 

[fmr60]

Somewhere down the line people have to understand the Bills have a limited amount of $. It's great to sign every free agent who is available but we have to be practical. If my thinking is correct Lawson is eligible for a $1.7M contract.  Not so bad. In due time I believe the Bills and Lawson will exercise that option.

 

[BuffaloButt]

League min. only!

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

On 4/4/2023 at 1:39 PM, ColoradoBills said:

I would venture to say that Shaq Lawson will probably get signed under the vet salary benefit program after the draft.

There always is a chance that a DE on Beane's board is sticking out in the 5th or 6th rounds and that may affect his signing.

 

With Von Miller having a good chance of starting the season on PUP (or is on the team to start the season but not active), I see Shaq

as a good possibility of making the team (at least to begin with).  If anything, he is a good yardstick for a younger guy to beat out in camp.

 

 

 

 I think Von has a good shot at playing week 1. He said at the end of January that the doctors gave him a time-frame of returning by August and he was hoping to beat that by a month or two to show teammates how hard of a worker he was. Almost like he had something to prove. On top of that I believe McDermott recently said Von was ahead of schedule in his recovery.

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

11 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 I think Von has a good shot at playing week 1. He said at the end of January that the doctors gave him a time-frame of returning by August and he was hoping to beat that by a month or two to show teammates how hard of a worker he was. Almost like he had something to prove. On top of that I believe McDermott recently said Von was ahead of schedule in his recovery.

 

 

 

I know he is ahead of schedule, and we will have to see exactly what that means.  I for one would like to see him come around real S L O W.

He is not needed in September or even October.  He is needed in January and early February.

 

If he does for whatever reason start on PUP for the season, it's only 4 games.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I want to pay him unfairly

 

 

[gobills1212]

Sure thing "Tipster" 

And just much would yo..er....How much is fair for Shaq?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Very good chance both Shaq and AJ Klein take snaps for the Bills next year at some point. 

[davefan66]

9 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I know he is ahead of schedule, and we will have to see exactly what that means.  I for one would like to see him come around real S L O W.

He is not needed in September or even October.  He is needed in January and early February.

 

If he does for whatever reason start on PUP for the season, it's only 4 games.

He is needed as soon as possible. Last year proved we need to win every game we can, can’t get down to the last week having to win to get AFC.  I would much rather be in control of our own destiny.

[ColoradoBills]

6 hours ago, davefan66 said:

He is needed as soon as possible. Last year proved we need to win every game we can, can’t get down to the last week having to win to get AFC.  I would much rather be in control of our own destiny.

 

I'm just saying at his age and importance you don't need to rush him back.  A reinjury would be devastating.

[GreggTX]

Take up a collection for him. I don't object to paying him, but we have cap issues.

[bmur66]

Notes were taken during the Bengal game. Shaq is one I would bring back. On another note. I don’t want to see Miller back until mid season and he should be bubble wrapped until almost playoff time. Just like he should have last year. I don’t care how bad he wants to play. He needs to be limited. They relied on him too heavily and his injury was almost predictable. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by bmur66