McDermott hammers point about Allen running less and sliding. Says it MUST change next year...

[JDubya76]

Give him the tools that allow him to stand in the pocket and not have to bail less than 2 seconds or a dedicated running game that doesn’t include their qb toting the rock and he’ll stay nice and healthy.

[Gugny]

You know what’s not sustainable, Father McDermott?  Coaching a team that has a top 3 QB, but can’t sniff the Super Bowl. 

[Freddie's Dead]

Josh Allen's running ability is what sets him apart.  He's another weapon when you forget about containing him and he gets loose.  His running is also deadly in the red zone.  He slides plenty, so no need to change anything.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

So you can't change who he fundamentally is, but you can change how he applies who he is. 

 

Fundamentally, Josh Allen is very competitive.

So if you persuade him the best way to win is to give other people the ball and let them make plays, that's what he'll do.

If he gets into a mindset like "Sebastian the Frog" where "You want it done right, you got to do it yourself", he'll run.

 

Case in point: Josh ran less in 2019 and 2020.  Less attempts per game, less yards.  In 2019, he was given Brown and Beasley.  In 2020, Diggs.  So Josh saw that the way to win was to get those guys the ball and let them make plays.

 

In 2021, Emmanual Sanders was not what we hoped and Beasley had fallen off, and the run game was moribund, plus, teams had figured out how to defend us more effectively.  So, Josh ran more.

 

In 2022, even more so - the scheme was less effective, the way Josh was executing it was less effective, Josh went into "superhero" mode.

 

Get him more tools, and he'll use them.

 

 

 

Agree if you can give him better protection and more weapons he will see the need to run less. But it isn't just volume. It is about being smart when he runs. It is about getting down. And whether Josh runs once a game or 5 times a game when he takes off he is going to fight for every inch. He has said it himself... he likes getting hit it get him going. I don't think he is ever gonna ba a "see the first down marker and get down" guy. The competitor in him is always going to risk a hit for an extra yard. And honestly if you take that out of him is he the same guy? 

 

It is just a reality we are going to have to learn to live with IMO. Though no doubt getting a better supporting cast might at least reduce the volume.

[ganesh]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It is on Josh and frankly I am not sure you can change him. 

Agreed.  The competitiveness inside Allen is too strong

[AuntieEm]

9 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Completely agree. Allen was in the pocket when he got hurt. And the OTs are exactly the same as last season. 

 

   The first year he got injured in the pocket.   This past year ì believe he got injured on that tackle at the sideline. 

[TheWeatherMan]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

You know what’s not sustainable, Father McDermott?  Coaching a team that has a top 3 QB, but can’t sniff the Super Bowl. 

I mean he did sniff it, one win away 2 years ago, likely 13 seconds away last year, and Brian Daboll away from it this year.  

[78thealltimegreat]

So let it be known Allen is to blame and not the fact his line was ranked 26th according to PFF and his receivers dropped the 2nd most passes as a group in the league gotcha.

 

[BarleyNY]

37 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

   The first year he got injured in the pocket.   This past year ì believe he got injured on that tackle at the sideline. 

The elbow was against the Jets on a hit in the pocket. The RT gave up the hit. IIRC Quessenberry was in for Brown. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by BarleyNY

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

So let it be known Allen is to blame and not the fact his line was ranked 26th according to PFF and his receivers dropped the 2nd most passes as a group in the league gotcha.

 

 

Allen isn't to blame for the amount he had to run. The fact he almost never slides... that is on him and only him. 

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, nucci said:

I wouldn't call this an employee thing. He's kinda the franchise. You bench Allen because of this you lose the team and piss him off

BS

[mrags]

13 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

If you want your QB to run less, take less hits, and slide more then maybe you should back that up by not calling QB sneaks on 3rd and short or 4th and short.  WTF

Yeah. Or Like in your own end zone on the half yard line, against a DLine that you havent done anything against all game. 

 

Ugh that Minnesota game still makes me ill. Just like the Titans blunder a few years ago. Simple coaching mistakes that cost us 1 seeds with an week off in the playoffs. 

[ddaryl]

7 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Josh Allen's running ability is what sets him apart.  He's another weapon when you forget about containing him and he gets loose.  His running is also deadly in the red zone.  He slides plenty, so no need to change anything.

 

 

Until he's out for the season or suffers an injury where he comes back but is never the same.

yes Allen is a threat to run, and that is aprt of his game... but his longevity will suffer if he continues to be reckless about it AND if he is always waiting for the downfield stuff to develop he will continue to take more unecessary hits shortening his career lifespan.... 

Give the guy a major investment in the OL and take the underneath stuff and focus a little more on ball control and moving the chains IMO

[thenorthremembers]

This front office and coaching staff is stubborn as hell and its not going to be beneficial to the team going forward.     Beane is deadset on getting guys who can run after the catch with a QB who rarely throws the ball in time for a WR to have time to get YAC.    Coach wants Josh to slide more, meanwhile his running ability is a huge chunk of the offense and one of major reasons he is a game changer at QB.  

 

I sit here and watch the video and hear this guy blabber at the end about Josh's UCL injury all the while thinking to myself, "The injury was inside the pocket."

 

This team won 13 games last year and all of the sudden we need to put our foot down on the one reason the team won 13 games?   If Coach wants to be more successful as a team in the playoffs and get to the Super Bowl maybe he should be putting his foot down on himself, or put his foot down on Beane who is looking at rival AFC East teams load up on offense while we are paying Ed Oliver 10 million dollars this year and have Gabriel "Try Hard" Davis as our #2 wideout.

 

When your coaching staff wasted the best chance the Bills have had to win a Super Bowl in 30 years by throwing up on itself during 13 seconds, maybe humble yourself and not call out your star QB for doing the wrong thing in the media.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[Dopey]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

Agreed.  The competitiveness inside Allen is too strong

Competitive, sure, but he's not a dumbass. He has to know that not sliding when he can and trying to run over or leap over defenders is going to catch up to him. All coach is saying is we're going to run him less on called runs AND he needs to better protect himself. As far as the oline...I know, I know. That's not an excuse to run into brick walls on your own volition. What's wrong with gaining the first down and running out of bounds berfore you get popped? Wrs do it all the time. He has to know this. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Dopey

[JoshAllin]

Running less? Mcd might as well have just said "I don't like winning"

 

Way too many spots I remember Josh making a run that changed the game completely

[Gregg]

7 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Josh Allen's running ability is what sets him apart.  He's another weapon when you forget about containing him and he gets loose.  His running is also deadly in the red zone.  He slides plenty, so no need to change anything.

 

The Bills have to upgrade the OL. I believe the Eagles and Chiefs had the #1 and #2 ranked OL's last year. Look who played in the Super Bowl. The Bills was ranked #26. When your QB is your primary running game than that is a bad thing not a good one. Just think of how much more dangerous Allen would be with a strong OL and a strong running game with the RB's doing it. It would open up the passing game that much more and Allen and the offense would be unstoppable for the most part.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I'm sick of listening to that guy. 

 

Freaking know-it-all and has been since Day One here. 

 

I'm sure Sean will get his new defensive toys early in the draft as always. 

[ddaryl]

3 minutes ago, motorj said:

Running less? Mcd might as well have just said "I don't like winning"

 

Way too many spots I remember Josh making a run that changed the game completely

 

 

Because his protection broke down

 

because he waits in the pocket letting downfield option develop to often

 

both of these issues causes Allen to run more than he needs to. He can still run and will but we need to reduce the amount of hits he takes and that would only happen with a major improved OL and taking the underneath stuff mor eoften that keeps him form holding the ball so long

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

Because his protection broke down

 

because he waits in the pocket letting downfield option develop to often

 

both of these issues causes Allen to run more than he needs to. He can still run and will but we need to reduce the amount of hits he takes and that would only happen with a major improved OL and taking the underneath stuff mor eoften that keeps him form holding the ball so long

 

If the Bills want to check down constantly then why not hire Joe Lombardi as the OC? 

 

Then James Cook can be our leading pass-catcher, and we can score 22-points per game. 

[Matt_In_NH]

He has mentioned this in various press conferences, mid game interviews, etc.  It is clear what the staff wants.  Allen after the Thursday night game acknowledged he is coached to not do it but he does it anyway cause he "is a football player".  I love his passion and desire but he really should be more coachable in this area.  They have his best interest in their plans.

[pocoboy]

17 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

You know why Josh runs coach? Because you provided him with a garbage offensive line.

 

 

 

This has a lot of truth. He tends to abandon his progressions pretty early once he gets chased a couple of times. It's like he just converts to sling it downfield into whatever window he can find, and try to make hero plays.

[Bruffalo]

The lack of investment in the offense is why Allen has to play like Superman every game.  It's very obvious why Josh puts the team on his back, because the offense was Diggs and Allen doing superhuman stuff.  Almost everyone else was a JAG.

[turftoe]

17 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Sure

 

Give him a POS oline and oh by the way you're going to be the majority of the run game too so basically the entire offense is on your back but you BETTER SLIDE

 

give me a break w this

 

 

Agree.  I'm betting that Beane will again ignore the OL in the draft. I hope I'm wrong.  Signing free agent scrubs is not the answer.  Beane needs to look at how KC solved their OL problem. Run, Josh, Run! Oh, better slide!

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

Until he's out for the season or suffers an injury where he comes back but is never the same.

yes Allen is a threat to run, and that is aprt of his game... but his longevity will suffer if he continues to be reckless about it AND if he is always waiting for the downfield stuff to develop he will continue to take more unecessary hits shortening his career lifespan.... 

Give the guy a major investment in the OL and take the underneath stuff and focus a little more on ball control and moving the chains IMO

 

As others have pointed out, Josh's injuries have come in the pocket, so I don't get all the hand-wringing about injuries that haven't happened when he's been on the run.  Josh only took the hits when he had to, on the goal line, 4th and 1, etc.  On the long runs and scrambles, he got down and slid, so again, I don't get all the hand-wringing.

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

The Bills have to upgrade the OL. I believe the Eagles and Chiefs had the #1 and #2 ranked OL's last year. Look who played in the Super Bowl. The Bills was ranked #26. When your QB is your primary running game than that is a bad thing not a good one. Just think of how much more dangerous Allen would be with a strong OL and a strong running game with the RB's doing it. It would open up the passing game that much more and Allen and the offense would be unstoppable for the most part.

 

We're in violent agreement.

[ddaryl]

42 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

If the Bills want to check down constantly then why not hire Joe Lombardi as the OC? 

 

Then James Cook can be our leading pass-catcher, and we can score 22-points per game. 

 

 

who said constantly

 

I said more often... reading comprehension 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Allen isn't to blame for the amount he had to run. The fact he almost never slides... that is on him and only him. 

 

I think there is an ocean between the "Allen is to blame" and the "OL, WR, RB, OC" is to blame crowd. 

We need to get some help. 

But Allen has a tendency to take off a lot more often than he actually needs to, even when he has guys open and/or not under pressure. I think that is a reasonable criticism actually. It just isn't the only problem. There is a sweet spot in the middle here where the truth lies. 

 

We need help on the OL. Allen needs to see the field a bit better/be a better decision maker. Dorsey needs to be a better play caller. 

[ddaryl]

3 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

As others have pointed out, Josh's injuries have come in the pocket, so I don't get all the hand-wringing about injuries that haven't happened when he's been on the run.  Josh only took the hits when he had to, on the goal line, 4th and 1, etc.  On the long runs and scrambles, he got down and slid, so again, I don't get all the hand-wringing.

 

 

Josh can reduce those in pockets hits like I mentioned in the post you quoted

 

And although Josh did slide some the fact that our OL is lacking investment as well as Allen sitting in the pocket to long will mean he is getting hit more often....  

I'm not against Josh running but alot of the runs are forced because of the above 2 situations so we need to reduce that IMO... No reason Josh can't move the football more effectively with less wear and tear on himself

[BuffaloMatt]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It is on Josh and frankly I am not sure you can change him. 

Q- How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

A- None. It will change when it wants to.  

[stlbills13]

Give him a better line, a better run game, and better receivers and that'll help. 

 

But all bets are off in the postseason. If he has to run it 12 times a game in addition to 40 pass attempts to win in the playoffs then he needs to do it

[Bruffalo]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

But Allen has a tendency to take off a lot more often than he actually needs to, even when he has guys open and/or not under pressure. I think that is a reasonable criticism actually. It just isn't the only problem. There is a sweet spot in the middle here where the truth lies. 

 

Isn't this probably because he doesn't trust his line? You "feel" the pressure a lot more when you're used to the defense getting home fast. 

[Wayne Cubed]

I think Josh could slide more, no issue with that.

 

My confusion with what McD has said, is it seems to come from this idea that Josh is injuring himself when he runs. His injury last season came within the pocket. Why hasn't he said, we could do a better job protecting Josh? It's like he doesn't want to be critical of the fact they've done an awful job proctecting him.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Wayne Cubed

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

I think there is an ocean between the "Allen is to blame" and the "OL, WR, RB, OC" is to blame crowd. 

We need to get some help. 

But Allen has a tendency to take off a lot more often than he actually needs to, even when he has guys open and/or not under pressure. I think that is a reasonable criticism actually. It just isn't the only problem. There is a sweet spot in the middle here where the truth lies. 

 

We need help on the OL. Allen needs to see the field a bit better/be a better decision maker. Dorsey needs to be a better play caller. 

 

Allen definitely deserves some of the blame. His hero ball antics have led to too many turnovers. He needs to clean that up. He definitely needs to see the field better. I remember the INT at MetLife on the opening drive when the Bills were threatening. I was like WTF. Same with the game vs GB when the Bills were inside the 10 and he threw that horrible pick. Those are just some examples of his poor decision making. It's a combination of needing a better OL, an upgrade at WR 2, RB's needing to do a better job as well as Josh doing a better job protecting the ball.

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

Isn't this probably because he doesn't trust his line? You "feel" the pressure a lot more when you're used to the defense getting home fast. 

 

6 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Allen definitely deserves some of the blame. His hero ball antics have led to too many turnovers. He needs to clean that up. He definitely needs to see the field better. I remember the INT at MetLife on the opening drive when the Bills were threatening. I was like WTF. Same with the game vs GB when the Bills were inside the 10 and he threw that horrible pick. Those are just some examples of his poor decision making. It's a combination of needing a better OL, an upgrade at WR 2, RB's needing to do a better job as well as Josh doing a better job protecting the ball.

 

I think one hand washes the other. The OL gets Allen to be antsy, but Allen has had issues with holding onto the ball too long since the day he entered the league. It was the big part of the reason we were OK with his low completion percentage coming into the league. He takes a lot of low percentage shots down field, regardless of what is going on underneath. Those throws require him to stand in the pocket longer. The longer he is in the pocket, the more he exposes an already struggling OL. 

The OL is not good enough. But Allen putting a little Brady or Fitz into his game would ease a lot of ills as well. 

[Nextmanup]

Still waiting for the data suggesting it is more dangerous for a QB to run than stand in the pocket.

 

Are we sure on that?  How many guys go down long term b/c someone rolled on their ankle or hit them at the knees, standing still in the pocket?  How many miss time because their own lineman stepped on them?  

 

Not surprised McDermott would harp on this, as he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

Let Josh run; it's the best thing he does.

 

If he gets hurt seriously, we're screwed for that season, and onto the next one.

 

 

[ChicagoRic]

Know what happens when you take a player like Josh Allen and continuously send the message "stop being a gunslinger, start sliding, play it safe safe safe"?  You get the the playoff game against the Bengals.  Allen got bombarded with that messaging by the media, fans and coaching staff in the days and weeks leading up to that game and we all know the result.  Looked flat. Took no chances to the point where Diggs called him out on it. 

 

Let Josh be Josh. 

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Bruffalo said:

The lack of investment in the offense is why Allen has to play like Superman every game.  It's very obvious why Josh puts the team on his back, because the offense was Diggs and Allen doing superhuman stuff.  Almost everyone else was a JAG.

 

The 2019 WC game against Houston comes to mind when it was obvious Josh tried to do too much.  Back then it was because their top receivers amounted to Brown and Beasley who were good, but not WR1 types.  Kudos to them on acquiring Diggs, but the plan on offense since the 2020 off-season is what exactly?  There isn't one UFA or pick that is anywhere near Diggs to scare an opposing defense.  

 

Yeah, Josh needs to protect himself and make plays from the pocket.  No argument there.  But if keeping pace with KC and CIN is done with a UFA G, 2 WR3/4 types, and a RB this is more of the same from previous off-seasons.    

 

I don't put much into late 1st or 2nd round picks contributing out of the gate, but if they go defense with the 1st or both OBD is lost without a map.  

[Bookie Man]

If you want him taking less hits, build up the OL. 

[Bruffalo]

11 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

The 2019 WC game against Houston comes to mind when it was obvious Josh tried to do too much.  Back then it was because their top receivers amounted to Brown and Beasley who were good, but not WR1 types.  Kudos to them on acquiring Diggs, but the plan on offense since the 2020 off-season is what exactly?  There isn't one UFA or pick that is anywhere near Diggs to scare an opposing defense.  

 

Yeah, Josh needs to protect himself and make plays from the pocket.  No argument there.  But if keeping pace with KC and CIN is done with a UFA G, 2 WR3/4 types, and a RB this is more of the same from previous off-seasons.    

 

I don't put much into late 1st or 2nd round picks contributing out of the gate, but if they go defense with the 1st or both OBD is lost without a map.  

I agree with all of this.  If we don't see WR/TE/OL in the first 2 rounds I don't see how we get through the playoffs. 

 

Harty and Sherfield seem like okay pieces. McGovern is fine. Harris is a smart signing. Maybe okay pieces is enough to make the offense run much more smoothly, but I don't want to bet it on it.  Getting a 1B WR means teams have to shift gameplans, because right now stopping Diggs is a surefire way to frustrate the offense.   

[ALLinALLEN]

Im confused.....we want him to run less then we sign Quessenberry? yikes.