Lil dirty update - McKenzie released

[Jerome007]

18 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If we’re simply sticking with Diggs-Davis-Shakir-Harty, then yea.. I might agree.. why not keep McKenzie as WR5. 
 

But that’s not a Championship caliber WR room, imo, and I hope this signals that - at the very least - Shakir and Harty are getting bumped down a slot in the WR room pecking order.  
 

If that’s the case, McKenzie not playing ST’s, at a 2.5M cap hit, doesn’t make a ton of sense as WR6. 

Tell me how the Chiefs had the best WR group ever?

 

Every team has weaknesses. All of them. 

 

I wonder what goes on in agent's mind sometimes. McKenzie was never one of those "guarantee to be in the team" kind of guy, yet the agent asks for a $250K bonus to be given at this time? He'd probably still be with the team without that!

Edited March 17, 2023 by Jerome007

[HappyDays]

46 minutes ago, Radar said:

Grace.

 

Yeah, a lot of grace shown as he seeks new employment from another team. If only he hadn't aired the team's dirty laundry on Ty Dunne's podcast over the past couple seasons I could take his parting message more seriously. I think the locker room gains more than it loses with McKenzie off the team. Maybe not a popular opinion but I for one was sick of his antics.

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I agree.  He’ll replace him next year. 
 

Harty is also going to be getting some snaps outside as well.  Which is why I put the rookie down some. 

 

It's going to be all on Dorsey this year.  I see them wanting to have most of the WR able to play everywhere.

It's a unique and maybe a risky scheme, but one I can see working great if it's executed right.

 

The slot guy will be constantly changing I believe.  Harty, Diggs and Shakir (and even Hines occasionally) should all get snaps there.

Lots of fans want a true slot, but I think this is the plan.  I will be watching to see if I am right or way off.

[Brandon]

That's too bad,  I always thought he was a decent player,  but there were just too many mistakes this past season.  

[Robert Paulson]

1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

McKenzie seems like a very fun and good hearted guy. But he was very disappointing to watch last year. I never wanted to see him play for the Bills again. I do wish him success wherever he ends up. It’s hard not to root for him for me. 

I'm assuming those Friday Locker dance offs did not scream 'process' and lil dirty was the example- the obvious reason was he fell short as a player but this probably did not help

[SCBills]

Just now, Jerome007 said:

Tell me how the Chiefs had the best WR group ever?

 

Every team has weaknesses. All of them. 

 

I won’t, but…
 

Tell me how they have an elite OL.  
 

Tell me how they have the best TE, maybe, ever.  
 

Tell me how they still managed to have MVS, Juju, Toney & a RD2 Pick .. even with Hardman going down to injury. 
 

We are not the same. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

A clear missing piece for us right now is a reliable slot, with RAC ability.  Draft actually has a decent value for this.  Zay Flowers or Downs would be instant upgrades.

 

I like Shakir, but he's not a difference maker, like the guys above.  Good backup, #4/5 type.

 

Draft a G in the 2nd.  Sign a backup RT.  This offense quickly resets and improves weaknesses from last yr.

When do slot guys typically get drafted? Seems like the top slot only guys are developed mid round WRs. Shakir seems like that guy. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It's a good mix of styles.  Give Josh a moment more before he has to move with a better OL and give Knox more true routes,

they could tear it up.

 

I know everyone has their own opinions, but this is what I hoped for.  

WR room is fine imo, now lets clean up the line.  It would be nice if Knox could actually conceertrate more on making receptions versus blocking for a suspect line.

[UConn James]

14 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I am not sure why anyone would be unsure of the doubt of McKenzie. He has screwed up a lot of plays He’s also made a lot of plays

 

22 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

The McKittrick hate runs deep at TBD.  I'll never understand why.

Hate is a strong word. Exasperation might be more apt. He stepped up in a couple of games in the past few years and he’s got a boisterous personality. That’s nowhere enough to keep him around.

 

IMO, he single-handedly lost us the @Miami game this past season. Josh got him the ball at what, the 30 or so with the seconds ticking down. McK decides to juke / dance at the CB for 2-3 more yards rather than try to go out of bounds or just hit the turf and give up the tackle in exchange for what was about 4-5 seconds. We tried to line up for another snap, time JUST ran out before the snap, and Ken Dorsey became a meme throwing his stuff around in the booth in a rage. They didn’t say anything in the presser or anything, but McK cost us a FG attempt to win it (we lost 21-19) that is very makable for Bass. I don’t remember him owning up to it and I don’t think he saw his juking in that moment as a / the problem. Situational awareness just isn’t there.

 

Via con dios, Isaiah.

[Jerome007]

Just now, SCBills said:

I won’t, but…
 

Tell me how they have an elite OL.  
 

Tell me how they have the best TE, maybe, ever.  
 

Tell me how they still managed to have MVS, Juju, Toney & a RD2 Pick .. even with Hardman going down to injury. 
 

We are not the same. 

I didn't say they didn't have an elite TEAM. But they have glaring weaknesses. You'd take their LBs and secondary over the Bills? And Diggs is better than any of their WRs. They loss Hill yet still won the Superbowl. You said the Bills WRs are not "championship caliber".  I disagreed and your answer doesn't say otherwise. They have huge strengths (and schemes/gameplans are a huge one!) yet they have weaknesses as well.

[DrDawkinstein]

28 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Seriously, do you think his tweet the other day pissed of Beane?  You might be correct.

 

Ha! Honestly, I dont think Beane even saw it before the Harty signing. McKenzie was smart enough to not tag anyone in the tweet, so it probably didnt hit Beane's radar.

 

But could be. I did think it was a bold (dumb) move to call out your GM in the middle of a very busy, stressful time for GMs.

 

Even if Beane did see it, I'm sure he didnt give it much more reaction than the eyeroll and huff most of us did.

[pigpen65]

Really liked him. Always thought he was under used. He got a bad case of the drops after his concussion.

[Starr Almighty]

I can't believe he got cut. He sucked so well on the roster.

[MasterStrategist]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 I don’t necessarily think it’s a “missing piece” as much as it is having a “known commodity”.

 

Shakir was drafted partly due to his RAC ability.  Harty is one of the best RAC guys in the league.  While it’s unknown if shakir can be a successful slot in the nfl or whether Harty can stay healthy, we have two slot WRs that specialize in RAC.  So I don’t think it’s a missing piece, but more of an unknown.  
 

I was a huge shakir fan prior to drafting him and thought he was worthy of a 2/3rd rd pick.  So maybe I’m biased

I'm hoping Shakir steps up, but I'm not counting on it.

 

To me, it's less about a known commodity.  It truly is a missing element on this offense.  We just signed Harty, who is very good at RAC (but not a starter).  

 

Cut McKenzie, Crowder contract expired, Beas was brought out of semi-retirement, and that leaves Shakir.

 

Defenses can easily bracket Diggs/Davis, we "need" a slot.  We shall see come draft day, but our short passing game is predicated on this 

[DrDawkinstein]

Now trade for Jeudy, sign Zeke, and LETS GOOOOOO

[MasterStrategist]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

When do slot guys typically get drafted? Seems like the top slot only guys are developed mid round WRs. Shakir seems like that guy. 

Look to last year, and everyone thought Dotson (penn st) was a slot only guy....

 

he went 1st round in the teens.

[ddaryl]

no surprises here. He has proven to have major concentration/consistency issues to be starting slot.  

Honestly I really thought he would have been here for at least camp, but hopefully the money saved by releasing him produces some FA fruit

[Freddie's Dead]

8 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

It's the lack of production, the lack of getting open, and there were some mistakes (like a poster listed above) that caused him to end up in the doghouse and be a healthy scratch in our last game and a couple other times down the stretch.

 

It isn't "hate" so much as it's a business. We just signed Deonte Hardy who the team views as an upgrade and Khalil Shakir is ready to step up.

 

Lack of production?  He doubled his output from 2021.  How much more was he supposed to produce, triple his output from 2021?  As far as mistakes, fewer drops than Gabe and Knox.  He had more first downs than Dawson Knox on 6 fewer catches.  

 

As far as Harty goes, we're paying him a lot more than McKittrick.  Harty had one decent year, 2021, with numbers fairly similar to McKittrick's 2022 numbers.  He's not a massive upgrade right now, but I'll admit he has potential.  As far as Shakir, he only caught 50% of his targets.  He's still developing, let's hope he doesn't get the sophomore jinx.

[That's No Moon]

He will take a lap and if he doesn't end up a Giant I wouldnt be shocked to see him back at a smaller number.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, MasterStrategist said:

Look to last year, and everyone thought Dotson (penn st) was a slot only guy....

 

he went 1st round in the teens.

He wasn’t a slot only though.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I'm hoping Shakir steps up, but I'm not counting on it.

 

To me, it's less about a known commodity.  It truly is a missing element on this offense.  We just signed Harty, who is very good at RAC (but not a starter).  

 

Cut McKenzie, Crowder contract expired, Beas was brought out of semi-retirement, and that leaves Shakir.

 

Defenses can easily bracket Diggs/Davis, we "need" a slot.  We shall see come draft day, but our short passing game is predicated on this 

We will definitely need a slot if your predictions of Shakir and Harty not being able to handle it are true. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

It's a shame that he could never stay consistent 

[wppete]

 

[MasterStrategist]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He wasn’t a slot only though.

Clearly... my point is everyone thinks Flowers/Downs are slot only too (built similar to Jahan).

 

Both these guys can move around on offense, but best suited at slot in our offense.

[wppete]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Looks like a mediocre WR room.

Right now a very weak room. Josh can’t be happy right now. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 minutes ago, UConn James said:

 

Hate is a strong word. Exasperation might be more apt. He stepped up in a couple of games in the past few years and he’s got a boisterous personality. That’s nowhere enough to keep him around.

 

IMO, he single-handedly lost us the @Miami game this past season. Josh got him the ball at what, the 30 or so with the seconds ticking down. McK decides to juke / dance at the CB for 2-3 more yards rather than try to go out of bounds or just hit the turf and give up the tackle in exchange for what was about 4-5 seconds. We tried to line up for another snap, time JUST ran out before the snap, and Ken Dorsey became a meme throwing his stuff around in the booth in a rage. They didn’t say anything in the presser or anything, but McK cost us a FG attempt to win it (we lost 21-19) that is very makable for Bass. I don’t remember him owning up to it and I don’t think he saw his juking in that moment as a / the problem. Situational awareness just isn’t there.

 

Via con dios, Isaiah.

I think everything your write is 100% accurate, right down to the Ken Dorsey meme comment (har har).  

 

McKenzie also cost us the game 2 years ago versus the cults, he wasn't even touched, dropped the kickoff and the colts got it to our 1 yards line.  That play started a massive momentum move for the Colts we never recovered.

[SCBills]

15 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

I didn't say they didn't have an elite TEAM. But they have glaring weaknesses. You'd take their LBs and secondary over the Bills? And Diggs is better than any of their WRs. They loss Hill yet still won the Superbowl. You said the Bills WRs are not "championship caliber".  I disagreed and your answer doesn't say otherwise. They have huge strengths (and schemes/gameplans are a huge one!) yet they have weaknesses as well.

Fair enough.  Your point is valid in context.  
 

Id argue they had more options 1-5 (1–4 after Hardman got hurt) than we did, and when discussing WR’s I’m factoring in TE play, so Kelce and Knox.  
 

However, yes, I do feel we have a much better defense than KC heading into next year… but they still have the edge, by a lot, on the OL and at TE … and are still good enough (given they're elite at OL/TE) in their WR room with MVS, Toney, Moore that I’m sure they’ll add to. 

Diggs is proven.  Knox & Davis we’re still kind of hoping.  Shakir & Harty are unknowns.  
 

That’s a lot of uncertainty at weaponry for Allen. Especially when we’re not really loaded anywhere on Offense.  It’s middle of the pack units (until proven otherwise) everywhere … RB, OL, TE, WR. 
 

Edited March 17, 2023 by SCBills

[Lost]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

We will definitely need a slot if your predictions of Shakir and Harty not being able to handle it are true. 

 

Beasley is still available 😄

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

 

Thanks Pete we had no idea

[1ManRaid]

10 minutes ago, UConn James said:

 

Hate is a strong word. Exasperation might be more apt. He stepped up in a couple of games in the past few years and he’s got a boisterous personality. That’s nowhere enough to keep him around.

 

IMO, he single-handedly lost us the @Miami game this past season. Josh got him the ball at what, the 30 or so with the seconds ticking down. McK decides to juke / dance at the CB for 2-3 more yards rather than try to go out of bounds or just hit the turf and give up the tackle in exchange for what was about 4-5 seconds. We tried to line up for another snap, time JUST ran out before the snap, and Ken Dorsey became a meme throwing his stuff around in the booth in a rage. They didn’t say anything in the presser or anything, but McK cost us a FG attempt to win it (we lost 21-19) that is very makable for Bass. I don’t remember him owning up to it and I don’t think he saw his juking in that moment as a / the problem. Situational awareness just isn’t there.

 

Via con dios, Isaiah.

 

Plus, one of the reasons Josh caught flak for being a red zone turnover machine was hitting McK in the chest with a pass only for it to become an INT.  I love him and am sad to see him go, but he developed a slight habit of failing in the clutch.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

Clearly... my point is everyone thinks Flowers/Downs are slot only too (built similar to Jahan).

 

Both these guys can move around on offense, but best suited at slot in our offense.

But if we’re looking for a slot guy we don’t need to spend a 1st. That’s the point.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Plus, one of the reasons Josh caught flak for being a red zone turnover machine was hitting McK in the chest with a pass only for it to become an INT.  I love him and am sad to see him go, but he developed a slight habit of failing in the clutch.

Oh I forgot all about that one, which at the time was a killer.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

53 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Solid player. He was very effective in Daboll system. Ken Dorsey didn’t know how to use him. 

Did Dorsey cause his catch percentage to go from 77% in 2021 to 64% in 2022?  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McKeIs00.htm

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

appreciate the kids efforts. he was a good team mate and wish him nothing but the best in his future endeavors.

[Bangarang]

39 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Doesn’t matter. There were many times during the season I wanted McKenzie cut, glad we have moved on. 

Thats nice

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

But if we’re looking for a slot guy we don’t need to spend a 1st. That’s the point.

We need a guy who can make this offense better, gives Diggs and Gabe less bracket coverage (especially Stefon).

 

I'd call that pretty valuable, and we struggled very badly with our short passing game at the end of LY, that we brought Bease out of retirement.  

 

Downs and Flowers both give that ability, mainly by projecting as top-end slot options.  But they aren't relegated to that role, just what will improve our offense the most...IMO.

 

Drafting another Shakir in the mid rounds does nothing IMO.  He doesn't threaten a defense, change how teams defend us.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Now trade for Jeudy, sign Zeke, and LETS GOOOOOO

Zeke...🤣

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

Zeke...🤣

 

Tell me our better option for when we get inside the 5 yard line and absolutely stall. Dude isnt what he used to be, but he's a powerhouse who knows how to get in the end zone. That's all that matters.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

We need a guy who can make this offense better, gives Diggs and Gabe less bracket coverage (especially Stefon).

 

I'd call that pretty valuable, and we struggled very badly with our short passing game at the end of LY, that we brought Bease out of retirement.  

 

Downs and Flowers both give that ability, mainly by projecting as top-end slot options.  But they aren't relegated to that role, just what will improve our offense the most...IMO.

 

Drafting another Shakir in the mid rounds does nothing IMO.  He doesn't threaten a defense, change how teams defend us.

More consistent offense. Hard to improve an offense that produces like ours. 
 

We were inconsistent in games. More individual play makers should help but I wouldn’t expect that out this draft at pick 27.

[BillsVet]

56 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

What was the game when he without getting touched  just dropped the ball on a return which turned the momentum 100% in the game and we ended up getting beat?

 

Probably the home loss to Indianapolis on 11/21/21.  Bills defense made a stop late in the 2nd quarter and Indy kicked a FG to make it 17-7.  McKenzie fumbled the ensuing KO back to the Colts who scored a couple players later to go into the half up 24-7.  Buffalo lost 41-15. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by BillsVet