Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR

[uninja]

4 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Good! This officially puts McDermott on the hot seat, it's his defense and they are making him change DC, he's officially been given a warning. 

 

Kim will need to eventually step in because Beane won't fire McD.

 

You're suggesting that the best coach this team has had in something like 2 decades is on the hot seat this year? It took Andy Reid a damn long time to win a Super Bowl and no one ever suggested that he get fired while constantly having the Chiefs in contention.

 

This place is *something* in the offseason, damn 😂

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I didn't take that as being the chronology but I will re-listen. I was doing other things at the time. But regardless even if it was a week in the making my point is I don't think this has been some snap decision. 

 

I don't think it was a snap decision made and announced today either.  But I don't think it's been something in the works for weeks, comparable to the new coaching hires which were leaked in social media but only announced by the Bills today.

 

 

3 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

You're suggesting that the best coach this team has had in something like 2 decades is on the hot seat this year? It took Andy Reid a damn long time to win a Super Bowl and no one ever suggested that he get fired while constantly having the Chiefs in contention.

 

This place is *something* in the offseason, damn 😂

 

I expect if we were roaming around on Chiefs fan boards between 2015-2017 we would learn that a number of fans did, in fact, want Reid fired despite the two 11-5 and the 12-4 season.  Losing the conf. championship with an MVP QB and the #1 O in 2018 probably didn't help.

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

As long as this exit is not for health reasons, I finally get my wish from 1.5 years back. 

 

Now, I dont want a rookie DC to take over. Hope there is an experienced and proven hand still available. 

 

My personal take from Beane's presser is that either McDermott will take over game day playcalling, or one of the defensive assistants will move up to DC.

[transient]

5 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Here comes Rob Ryan, I knew it...

We would go from a team that never blitzes to a team that sends the house on every. single. down. in moronic fashion. 

[jahnyc]

I will be bummed if the Bills promote Holcomb, Washington or Babich.  Washington was bad as DC in Carolina and Holcomb and Babich do not have enough experience.  The last thing we need is another coordinator that has limited or no prior experience as a coordinator.

 

It is unfortunate that this did not surface earlier in the offseason.  Not sure it would have mattered since McBeane seem to favor Carolina connections, but it would have been interesting to get a top DC to run the defense.

[Bill from NYC]

14 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Good! This officially puts McDermott on the hot seat, it's his defense and they are making him change DC, he's officially been given a warning. 

 

Kim will need to eventually step in because Beane won't fire McD.

1) I think that we are on the same page. Frazier is being used as a scapegoat for McDermott.

 

2) I don't believe for one second that Beane has, or ever did have the authority to fire McDermott. I firmly believe that the opposite applies and that McDermott has FAR more power than Beane, thus the many strange, defensively focused draft picks.

 

As always, jmo.

[PastaJoe]

He waited until the top prospects were signed so he’d have a better chance of coming back.

[Bill from NYC]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

My personal take from Beane's presser is that either McDermott will take over game day playcalling, or one of the defensive assistants will move up to DC.

Do you think that Frazier had full autonomy wrt play calling? 

 

I for one do not and do believe that McDermott was/is calling the shots.

[Billever76]

12 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

You're suggesting that the best coach this team has had in something like 2 decades is on the hot seat this year? It took Andy Reid a damn long time to win a Super Bowl and no one ever suggested that he get fired while constantly having the Chiefs in contention.

 

This place is *something* in the offseason, damn 😂

Josh Allen is the reason of our success not McDermott lol

[phypon]

Let's bring back Wade Philips!!!  :-)

[ProcessTruster]

14 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

You're suggesting that the best coach this team has had in something like 2 decades is on the hot seat this year? It took Andy Reid a damn long time to win a Super Bowl and no one ever suggested that he get fired while constantly having the Chiefs in contention.

 

This place is *something* in the offseason, damn 😂

yeah people on this board overdosed on media hype last season and are still hungover... 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Best news ive heard all day, i would prefer he got a HC gig so we could get compensation, but ill take it.

 

Hopefully McDermott runs the Defense and is more aggressive and flexible to change or whoever runs it.

 

 

[newcam2012]

39 minutes ago, Process said:

It seems like most people are assuming this was a polite way of firing him. If I had to guess I think the Bills and McBeane are being sincere in that it was Frazier's decision and they weren't the ones that wanted to move on. If they wanted to show him respect they wouldn't have waited until all the other coordinator jobs around the league were filled. 

 

Regardless, he's gone, and that's exciting, even though it's unlikely things change much.

Exciting is implementing a defense that's new, innovative, and effective in the playoffs.

 

A defense that can stop a playoff team from scoring at will and in 13 seconds. 

 

Agree on changes are unlikely. That says it all. 

[HOUSE]

Big deal, Yolo took the year off too

What a lazy bunch of people we have here. .

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I feel like they waited to announce anything until all the HCs were hired incase they would get compensation. Didn't get hired now a move is made. 

 

Interesting assessment, i like it 👍👍

 

 

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

1) I think that we are on the same page. Frazier is being used as a scapegoat for McDermott.

 

If that's the case, why not just fire him?  McDermott has fired other coaches - Rico Dennison, Juan Castillo, Jim Salgado this season.

 

The goat has better scapes if you officially lop off his head.

 

10 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

2) I don't believe for one second that Beane has, or ever did have the authority to fire McDermott. I firmly believe that the opposite applies and that McDermott has FAR more power than Beane, thus the many strange, defensively focused draft picks.

 

I dunno about "FAR more power than Beane", because I think it's been pretty clear at times Beane has made moves McDermott was not on board with.

 

I agree that the way it's set up, both Beane and McDermott report to the Pegulas, and Beane does not have fate control (authority to fire) McDermott.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you think that Frazier had full autonomy wrt play calling? 

 

I for one do not and do believe that McDermott was/is calling the shots.

 

I think it's very clear that at times during games, McDermott weighed in on defensive playcalls.

 

But I think the primary playcalling and the primary game plan responsibilities were both Frazier's and he called plays most of the time.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Beck Water

[ProcessTruster]

Hopefully this also opens the door to letting Edmunds walk and making some changes to the defensive alignment and approach.   Elam and White become press corners more of the time, Get Hyde back in CF, Benford playing the Poyer role.   

 

I still believe defense is far less important than offense in today's NFL against top 10 teams.   So Fraziers departure is kind of ho hum for me as you need to be scoring 30 a game in this league to win regardless of who your DC is.   And the Bills will be playing a lot of top 10 teams each season as long as they keep winning the division.  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

If that's the case, why not just fire him?  McDermott has fired other coaches - Rico Dennison, Juan Castillo, Jim Salgado this season.

 

 

So we could get compensation if he got hired somewhere else.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

20 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

You're suggesting that the best coach this team has had in something like 2 decades is on the hot seat this year? It took Andy Reid a damn long time to win a Super Bowl and no one ever suggested that he get fired while constantly having the Chiefs in contention.

 

This place is *something* in the offseason, damn 😂

 

Bills fans have collectively lost their damn minds. I blame 20+ years of suckitude warping our reasoning and expectations. But it is almost unbelievable how spoiled and entitled we became so quickly.

 

 

[uticaclub]

25 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

You're suggesting that the best coach this team has had in something like 2 decades is on the hot seat this year? It took Andy Reid a damn long time to win a Super Bowl and no one ever suggested that he get fired while constantly having the Chiefs in contention.

 

This place is *something* in the offseason, damn 😂

Step your game up. It's not 2016, playoffs is no longer the goal. 

[ArtVandalay]

25 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

You're suggesting that the best coach this team has had in something like 2 decades is on the hot seat this year? It took Andy Reid a damn long time to win a Super Bowl and no one ever suggested that he get fired while constantly having the Chiefs in contention.

 

This place is *something* in the offseason, damn 😂

Absolutely the goal is to win a Super Bowl and he's shown to be a liability each and every post season.  He's lucky he has a job now. 

 

I'll never understand this loser mentality that the team used to be bad (cheap owner no QB), so now we are good we can't fire him. Goal is to win a Super Bowl, not be relevant and be lovable losers on primetime TV.

[hondo in seattle]

Frazier was a contributor but this was McD's defense.  And, schematically, it's not going to change much with Frazier gone.  

 

But let's give Frazier credit where credit is due.  Frazier executed McD's defense well.  From 2017 to 2022, the Bills led D led the league in yards allowed and were top five in a bunch of other categories.  I'm not sure we've ever had such a sustained period of excellence before.    Frazier was part of that.

 

And, yes, I know there were breakdowns.  All teams had breakdowns these past 5 seasons.  That's why our stats are better.   And, yes, each season ended in disappointment.  But all good (i.e. playoff) teams end their seasons in disappointment - save one.  And from where I sit, I don't think Beane has yet given McD and Frazier a Super Bowl quality roster.  We were never very likely to win it all.  

 

Frazier isn't the villain.  But he's not the savior either.  If the Bills D is much different (either better or worse) this upcoming season, it'll be because the guys suiting up are better or worse.  

[muppy]

4 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

“Trouble” seems a stretch to me.  Additions were made to the defensive coaching staff over the past few weeks, and coupled with the expiring contract, seems more like a professional organization and professional people doing professional things.   
 

With luck, we rebrand a good defense into a great defense.  

thanks for the positive take.  I am at heart a glass half full type person and hope the best for Mr Frazier AND the Bills.  I think when we don't exactly Know what has occurred behind the scenes to bring this about just gives me pause.  If and when we are supposed to know exactly what transpired to cause this major Bills development we will all be dialed in and staying tuned. Rebranding into an upgrade from what we had is the dream scenario. 

[Ya Digg?]

10 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Absolutely the goal is to win a Super Bowl and he's shown to be a liability each and every post season.  He's lucky he has a job now. 

 

I'll never understand this loser mentality that the team used to be bad (cheap owner no QB), so now we are good we can't fire him. Goal is to win a Super Bowl, not be relevant and be lovable losers on primetime TV.

I get your sentiment but this right here is too much hyperbole 

[ArtVandalay]

3 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

I get your sentiment but this right here is too much hyperbole 

No it's not, at all. He could have been fired after 13 seconds and we could have promoted the 2022 Coach of The Year... this year the Bills were a no show for two post season games again, firable offense. The ONLY reason McD has a job is because the GM is in his pocket and the Hamlin situation.

[BigAl2526]

This presents a bit of a dilemma for the Bills.  They have to decide how much they want Frazier after his "sabbatical."  The also need to decide what the likelihood is of him deciding he wants to return after a year off.  At 65 (in a year) he might decide he's had enough of the grind of coaching.  As an articulate and somewhat charismatic personality, he could probably find a home in the media that was a lot less stressful and pays better.  The Bills have to make that assessment because it might be difficult to maintain quality defensive coordination with temporary measures.  If you promote from within, are you getting the best possible option?  If McDermott takes on the role of coordinator for a year, will his other duties suffer?  Is it even possible to hire a quality guy from the outside who would be willing to come in for a year with the term "interim" attached to his title?  If you settle for a temporary solution to organize and coordinate your defense, is the defense going to suffer?

[Billz4ever]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

They pounded the rock and chewed clock before our offense couldn’t generate yards or points to put pressure on them.

 

So would you feel better if the score was 40 - 28?

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Would a team really want a guy back as DC if he needed to take a year off?

 

Is anyone going to sign on as DC if it’s being treated as a 1-year keep-the-seat warm gig?

 

For both questions:

 

 

Agree...I would even go as far as flat out say No, and this is absolutely the end of Frazier in Buffalo.  Beane even alluded to the fact he wouldn't be back without directly saying he wouldn't be back when they asked him about that.  

Edited March 1, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[IndyMark]

4 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

This presents a bit of a dilemma for the Bills.  They have to decide how much they want Frazier after his "sabbatical." 

 

Asking honestly, does it though? The math on this timing seems to indicate Leslie's contract has or will expire soon or certainly within the next 12 months.  Then Leslie is stepping back for a year, as such when he returns he has no contract and is not with the Bills. 

 

Admittedly, I have not read the official announcement and while sabbaticals do in fact work that way, it did not appear to me this is a Bills sponsored Sabbatical. I may be wrong, but it seems to me Frazier's time with the Bills is likely over.

[Bill from NYC]

20 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I dunno about "FAR more power than Beane", because I think it's been pretty clear at times Beane has made moves McDermott was not on board with.

Really?

 

In 2017 (the year before Beane was hired), the Bills traded down from 10 to 27 in the first round. They, while in need of a QB, still traded that #10 (Mahomes), were undercompensated for such a drastic move, and proceeded to draft the 8th defensive back taken in round one. Can't blame Beane for that; he wasn't here yet. 

 

Upon arrival, Beane drafted Josh Allen. We are just so lucky that he was able to! Looking at the subsequent drafts, do you not see the defensive influence? This is all of the proof I need that McDermott (not Beane) has the power in that duo. I think that the blatant error of prioritizing defense (especially the secondary) clearly lies on the shoulders of McDermott. As we speak, the Bills are weak at the OL and WR positions. This is Levy/Jauronesque and inexcusable, especially while having our first franchise QB since Jim Kelly (and I think that Josh is clearly superior). 

 

As always, the above is jmo. I am not trying to have any viscious verbal arguments lol. Thanks for the dialogue.

[ngbills]

Funny the excuses people make to avoid believing this was Frazier's choice. He was asked to take a demotion, lowball offer, was talking him into retiring, waited for another team that had not even interviewed him to hire him. 

 

If that is really the case do you realize how disorganized the front office would be? Let's wait to fire our guy and have no chance to hire a bunch of other good candidates. They took this long to make a decision, wow? They have not even started working on next year anyway. There is no positive spin if this was the actual case.

 

Is it that hard to accept that he either does not want to be here next year or needs a year off? So protective of McD and Beane that people believe ridiculous theories to not tarnish that. 

[Jerome007]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I wonder if people understand that whenever you make an entirely new defense often you need entirely new players, which means that the defense is going to take a step back for a year while they get those players in position

McD remains. And for all the deserved Frazier criticism, this defense does NOT need an entirely new defense! It needs some additional wrinkles and better game time decisions. But the "bend but don't break" worked well, very well, 95% of the time. That 5% is just calling more aggressive or adapted plays at the right time.

[Dopey]

6 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Funny the excuses people make to avoid believing this was Frazier's choice. He was asked to take a demotion, lowball offer, was talking him into retiring, waited for another team that had not even interviewed him to hire him. 

 

If that is really the case do you realize how disorganized the front office would be? Let's wait to fire our guy and have no chance to hire a bunch of other good candidates. They took this long to make a decision, wow? They have not even started working on next year anyway. There is no positive spin if this was the actual case.

 

Is it that hard to accept that he either does not want to be here next year or needs a year off? So protective of McD and Beane that people believe ridiculous theories to not tarnish that. 

Welcome top TBD: Toxic Bills Drive

[Airseven]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agree...I would even go as fas as flat out say No, and this is absolutely the end of Frazier in Buffalo.  Beane even alluded to the fact he wouldn't be back without directly saying he wouldn't be back when they asked him about that.  

 

If McDermott, in effect, functions as DC or they promote a lesser assistant into an acting gig, then it would leave the door cracked for Frazier to return. It would be quite the forced marriage at that point though.

[Shaw66]

I haven't read this thread, so apologies to those whose thoughts I may be duplicating. 

 

My primary response to the news about Frazier is to call out all those who've been complaining for a month that the Bills aren't doing anything, as though many of us fans can see that things need to change but McDermott and Beane can't.  That idea is and was nonsense.  

 

McDermott is about making the team better, year after year.   He and the organization study the team and make decisions about what needs to be done.   They have frank conversations with the coaches and with the players and make some decisions about the program each needs to follow.  

 

The 2023 Bills will not be the 2022 Bills, and that has been true since the moment the Bills lost to the Bengals.  It would be true even if the Bills had won the Super Bowl. 

 

If I had to guess, Frazier heard the results of the study of the defense, and those results probably told him that 2022 was inadequate and things needed to change.  The kinds of changes they talked about probably sounded to him (and McDermott) like things he wasn't likely to be able to do.   So, the handwriting was on the wall.  But McBeane didn't want to fire the guy, and the leave of absence, or whatever this is, was a much better way to treat the man at what may be the end of his career.   My guess is that they left the door open for Frazier to return in 2024 in some kind of specialized role - special assistant to the head coach or something like that.  I think he's done as the defensive coordinator.  

 

And, as I'm sure has been noted already, this has been in the works for weeks.  It explains the Holcomb hiring, which was part of the handwriting that Frazier no doubt saw.  

 

[LABILLBACKER]

7 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Welcome top TBD: Toxic Bills Drive

Sometimes the truth is toxic.

[SectionC3]

I might be in the minority here, but I trust McD to get this right.  His track record speaks for itself.  

 

One of the things that I find . . . Interesting . . . About the conversation is the point that McD may assume responsibility for playcalling next year.  It tells me that perhaps he wants things done a particular way moving forward, which suggests to me that he saw a particular problem with the defense.  That suspicion may be unfounded, but the idea that McD is going to get his fingers into the defense more moving forward is very interesting to me. 

 

[Bill from NYC]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I haven't read this thread, so apologies to those whose thoughts I may be duplicating. 

 

My primary response to the news about Frazier is to call out all those who've been complaining for a month that the Bills aren't doing anything, as though many of us fans can see that things need to change but McDermott and Beane can't.  That idea is and was nonsense.  

 

McDermott is about making the team better, year after year.   He and the organization study the team and make decisions about what needs to be done.   They have frank conversations with the coaches and with the players and make some decisions about the program each needs to follow.  

 

The 2023 Bills will not be the 2022 Bills, and that has been true since the moment the Bills lost to the Bengals.  It would be true even if the Bills had won the Super Bowl. 

 

If I had to guess, Frazier heard the results of the study of the defense, and those results probably told him that 2022 was inadequate and things needed to change.  The kinds of changes they talked about probably sounded to him (and McDermott) like things he wasn't likely to be able to do.   So, the handwriting was on the wall.  But McBeane didn't want to fire the guy, and the leave of absence, or whatever this is, was a much better way to treat the man at what may be the end of his career.   My guess is that they left the door open for Frazier to return in 2024 in some kind of specialized role - special assistant to the head coach or something like that.  I think he's done as the defensive coordinator.  

 

And, as I'm sure has been noted already, this has been in the works for weeks.  It explains the Holcomb hiring, which was part of the handwriting that Frazier no doubt saw.  

 

Your post would appear to shield McDermott from any blame. I respect your opinion but cannot understand how or why you would do so.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bills fans have collectively lost their damn minds. I blame 20+ years of suckitude warping our reasoning and expectations. But it is almost unbelievable how spoiled and entitled we became so quickly.

 

 

Yeah we're so spoiled and tired of carrying around all those Lombardis. If you want to actually witness an "entitled" fanbase, take a drive up to NE.

[BuffaL0L0k0]

7 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

There’s a ton of replacement candidates here on TBD. 

Reply of the day/week/month/allofoffseason!!🤗