Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

So that's what, three coaches who have declined to return to the Bills staff this offseason?

 

Yea, albeit one was to take a promotion which is kinda more par for the course. It is two that have decided to walk away for non-promotions.

[Beck Water]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

EXACTLY. In key moments in the playoffs it is about talent over scheme. Ex-*****-actly. Coaches coach. Players have to play. 

 

And yet, in terms of top draft picks and FA expenditure, the Bills D should have talent.

[ngbills]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

So that's what, three coaches who have declined to return to the Bills staff this offseason?

The talk the last few years of some problems behind the scenes could be true. . 

[Airseven]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Then they should say that.

 

Why? This kind of gentlemanly separation happens all the time. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Except what they have told you is the truth.

With all due respect, how do we know this is the truth?

 

This version of what's happened doesn't pass the smell test

[BillsFanSD]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Three games if we're being honest here:  Twice against KC and against the Bengals.  And the D wasn't exactly stellar against Indy in that playoff game either.  Came close to blowing a 24 - 10 4th quarter lead.

Our defense gave up 31 points to someone named Skylar Thompson.  

[FireChans]

23 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Apples and oranges. If I told you that the Bengals gained 30 first downs, had 412 yards in total Offense, rushed the ball for 172 yards, had 34 minutes TOP, had no turnovers and gave up only 1 sack what would you have thought?

 

If the Bengals had needed to score 40 points they could have. 

They didn’t though. They scored 14 points in the first Q and 13 the rest of the way.

 

The game was winnable if the offense showed up. 

[JerseyBills]

Why not inform them sooner? Alot of coordinators are gone. 

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

The problem with that line of thinking is I'm convinced Cincy could've easily hung 40 on us had they wanted.  Instead, they simply decided to pound the rock and chew the clock in the second half because our defense couldn't stop it.

They pounded the rock and chewed clock before our offense couldn’t generate yards or points to put pressure on them.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Airseven said:

 

Why? This kind of gentlemanly separation happens all the time. 

It does when they don't want the guy back. Here it looks like they offered him a new contract and he declined.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BuffaninSarasota said:

With all due respect, how do we know this is the truth?

 

This version of what's happened doesn't pass the smell test

 

See @HappyDays's post. 

 

And then hear what Brandon Beane told you.

 

So we have the GM's words and then a credible poster with links being told the same thing. 

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

They didn’t though. They scored 14 points in the first Q and 13 the rest of the way.

 

The game was winnable if the offense showed up. 

 

So I think the Bengals could have scored again if they needed to. But to win that game the Bills defense needed to keep Joe Burrow below 20 because the offense was even more horrific.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They didn’t though. They scored 14 points in the first Q and 13 the rest of the way.

 

The game was winnable if the offense showed up. 

No it wasn't. They let Joe Mixon and his 3.9ypc regular season go for 105 on 20 carries. They were never even close to  winning that game.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See @HappyDays's post. 

 

And then hear what Brandon Beane told you.

 

So we have the GM's words and then a credible poster with links being told the same thing. 

One does wonder if they lowballed him on the contract -- i.e., giving him an offer he could refuse. It's been 37 days since the end of the Bills' season, which is quite some time. But who really knows ...

[Solomon Grundy]

41 minutes ago, JoeF said:

Rex is still on the market....if Vance Joseph can go back to Denver..why not Rex...😉

 

Think McDermott would be using his hands for more than clapping 😎

[JerseyBills]

Let McD call plays

[holla83]

Does Al Holcomb become the DC?

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

No it wasn't. They let Joe Mixon and his 3.9ypc regular season go for 105 on 20 carries. They were never even close to  winning that game.

Agree to disagree.  IMO scoring 10 points made it a guaranteed loss.  If the Bills offense played well, it was a winnable game.

[nucci]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

One does wonder if they lowballed him on the contract -- i.e., giving him an offer he could refuse. It's been 37 days since the end of the Bills' season, which is quite some time. But who really knows ...

Beane , McDermott and Frazier

[Watching since 1964]

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Au contraire. The Panthers were absolutely dominant on D in 2013 and racked up 60 sacks. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2013.htm

But did Sean get head coaching offers after 2013?
 

Point is McD benefited from Newton’s MVP season and the bright spotlight of the Super Bowl, which is how things work of course.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Our defense gave up 31 points to someone named Skylar Thompson.  

our defense gave up a fumble six?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

One does wonder if they lowballed him on the contract -- i.e., giving him an offer he could refuse. It's been 37 days since the end of the Bills' season, which is quite some time. But who really knows ...

 

The sense I go from Brandon is this decision has been made a while. It is just the Bills wanted to announce all the coaching stuff in one go. 

 

Like we have known about the new hires a while too but they have only been announced formally today. 

[HappyDays]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Of course McDermott wanted Leslie to stay. McDermott watches the film and understands what he is seeing. He knows how much of the blame really belongs with Leslie Frazier and it is not a ton. 

 

Joe Marino broke it down very well on Locked on Bills last week. Frazier's defense is based around forcing QBs to stay patient and work their way down the field slowly without any mistakes. That's great against bad offenses. But for elite QBs in the playoffs it's too easy. Joe called it "death by 1,000 cuts" and he's exactly right. Talented well-coached offenses in intensive playoff games don't make mistakes. They're happy to take the easy plays all the way to the endzone. So you have to force their hand a little. Joe pointed out no turnovers forced in each of our last 3 playoff losses. Only 4 sacks. We are not letting our players try to make game changing plays. We have to be willing to press our CBs and live with the occasional deep completion. It's either that or die a slow death. That's the philosophical change this defense needs to get to a championship level.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by HappyDays

[dave mcbride]

Just now, General Soreness said:

But did Sean get head coaching offers after 2013?
 

Point is McD benefited from Newton’s MVP season and the bright spotlight of the Super Bowl, which is how things work of course.

No, he got an offer after the Panthers went 6-10 and the defense stunk: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2016.htm. He was given a job not because of 2015 but because of the overall body of work. I won't deny that the Super Bowl year helped his case, of course - they had a good D that year. But they were better in 2013. 

[SCBills]

46 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh man. If only Leslie Frazier had to deal with injuries and poor performers on the defensive side. Lmao

 

We've had the same playoff results year after year under Frazier.  

 

A bit different from having a rookie OC dealing with that. 

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Except what they have told you is the truth.

 

How do you know?

 

That's what they said, doesn't mean it's on the level.

 

And I see that we've gone back to that championship Carolina coaching tree for his replacement.  LOL

 

SMH 

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Joe Marino broke it down very well on Locked on Bills last week. Frazier's defense is based around forcing QBs to stay patient and work their way down the field slowly without any mistakes. That's great against bad offense. But for elite QBs in the playoffs it's too easy. Joe called it "death by 1,000 cuts" and he's exactly right. Talented well-coached offenses in intensive playoff games don't make mistakes. They're happy to take the easy plays all the way to the endzone. So you have to force their hand a little. Joe pointed out no turnovers forced in each of our last 3 playoff losses. Only 4 sacks. We are not letting the players try to make game changing plays. We have to be willing to press our CBs and live with the occasional deep completion. It's either that or die a slow death. That's the philosophical change this defense needs to get to a championship level.

Well said and pretty much spot on imo

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So that's what, three coaches who have declined to return to the Bills staff this offseason?

 

That's quite the spin there.

 

Safeties coach Jim Salgado was fired.  Fired generally implies that you only "decline to return" in the "you can't fire me, I quit!" sense o the term.

Chad Hall's contract was up and apparently not renewed.  He may have wanted a fresh start, the Bills may have wanted a fresh set of eyes, or it may have been mutual - we don't know.

 

Frazier according to what the Bills said, decided to take a year off which could reasonably be seen as "declined to return"

 

Who you got in mind as the three who "declined to return"?

[Alphadawg7]

Wow this is awesome news!!!!  I’m looking forward to seeing what some new thinking and energy can do with the defense.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

How do you know?

 

That's what they said, doesn't mean it's on the level.

 

And I see that we've gone back to that championship Carolina coaching tree for his replacement.  LOL

 

SMH 

 

Brandon Beane is a straight shooter and we have a credible poster here saying he has heard from sources the same thing. 

 

I 100% believe this was Leslie's decision.

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

That's quite the spin there.

 

Safeties coach Jim Salgado was fired.  Fired generally implies that you only "decline to return" in the "you can't fire me, I quit!" sense o the term.

Chad Hall's contract was up and apparently not renewed.  He may have wanted a fresh start, the Bills may have wanted a fresh set of eyes, or it may have been mutual - we don't know.

 

Frazier according to what the Bills said, decided to take a year off which could reasonably be seen as "declined to return"

 

Who you got in mind as the three who "declined to return"?

 

Ryan Wendell is the third as I read it. He left for a promotion in LA.

[Beck Water]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea, albeit one was to take a promotion which is kinda more par for the course. It is two that have decided to walk away for non-promotions.

 

? who left to take a promotion?

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That's quite the spin there.

 

Safeties coach Jim Salgado was fired.  Fired generally implies that you only "decline to return" in the "you can't fire me, I quit!" sense o the term.

Chad Hall's contract was up and apparently not renewed.  He may have wanted a fresh start, the Bills may have wanted a fresh set of eyes, or it may have been mutual - we don't know.

 

Frazier according to what the Bills said, decided to take a year off which could reasonably be seen as "declined to return"

 

Who you got in mind as the three who "declined to return"?

No spin intended. Those are the three, I didn't remember whether the safeties coach had left or been fired.

[TheBeaneBandit]

13 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Our defense gave up 31 points to someone named Skylar Thompson.  

Skylar people.....Skylar!

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Brandon Beane is a straight shooter and we have a credible poster here saying he has heard from sources the same thing. 

 

I 100% believe this was Leslie's decision.

 

Ryan Wendell is the third as I read it. He left for a promotion in LA.

 

OK, yeah, I forgot about Wendell, he did leave for a promotion to OL from assistant OL, you're right!

[dave mcbride]

20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Joe Marino broke it down very well on Locked on Bills last week. Frazier's defense is based around forcing QBs to stay patient and work their way down the field slowly without any mistakes. That's great against bad offense. But for elite QBs in the playoffs it's too easy. Joe called it "death by 1,000 cuts" and he's exactly right. Talented well-coached offenses in intensive playoff games don't make mistakes. They're happy to take the easy plays all the way to the endzone. So you have to force their hand a little. Joe pointed out no turnovers forced in each of our last 3 playoff losses. Only 4 sacks. We are not letting the players try to make game changing plays. We have to be willing to press our CBs and live with the occasional deep completion. It's either that or die a slow death. That's the philosophical change this defense needs to get to a championship level.

Great take. My big question is whether McDermott / Beane are willing to go after the super-talented miscreants who can put a D-line over the top or if they're permanently scarred by the Greg Hardy experience (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HardGr99.htm). I suspect it's the latter, although I certainly don't hold that against them given the particulars of that unfortunate episode. I just don't see them going after the Frank Clarks (13.5 sacks in 17 postseason games) of the world. I hate to say it, but crazy d-linemen often do bring a sharper edge to big games than most. Just think of Leon Lett and Charles Haley ...

 

Edit: Also, Chris Jones, in an interesting scouting report: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/6/13/11744026/what-those-anonymous-scouts-said-about-chiefs-chris-jones-before-the 

Edited February 28, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

? who left to take a promotion?

Was it Chad Hall? Or did he take same position?

 

Edit: N/m, just remembered Wendell

Edited February 28, 2023 by Patrick Duffy

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

After listening to Beane’s presser, I think you all can put to rest the health speculations. It was clear to me this decision was made in the best interest of the Bills - even though they’re painting it as “Frazier wants time off.” The team wants to go in a different direction and Beane didn’t rule out McD calling the plays; which is exactly what I said should happen before all this went down. 

McD has also proven to be a significantly better play caller

[TheWeatherMan]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

13-3

Josh Allen won 10 of those 13 

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Our defense gave up 31 points to someone named Skylar Thompson.  

No, they gave up 16 points. 15 points were the result of offensive turnovers and bad ST play. 

[LABILLBACKER]

12 minutes ago, ngbills said:

For the sake of argument. How can we trash Frazier and say they are better off with out him? But then not say the same about McD or Beane? Frazier has been DC of a top-ranked D for multiple years, but that has fallen short. Beane built a contender that has fallen short every year. McD has coached a good team that has lost in the playoffs and in some different ways, both play and coaching. Why do McD and Beane get a pass and Frazier gets no credit? The D is good because McD, but all the bad attributes are due to Frazier? 

They are all culpable for the playoff exits. Frazier needed to be better at in game adjustments and aggressiveness. McD needed to be a HC and make sure your assistants have their crap together (Farwell / 13 sec). And Beane can't live on the good will of Allen/ Diggs forever.  He needs to completely re-evaluate his entire scouting department.  It's not all Frazier's fault.  McB & Dorsey need to step it up. No one is handing out mini Lombardis for winning the regular season. 

[somnus00]

3 hours ago, Patrick Duffy said:

Well, I wouldn't say "entirely" new players, but definitely would need a few

You need entirely new players when you're coordinator is married to a scheme. Not if you have a coach who adapts to get the most out of the players he has.