Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR

[Riverboat Ritchie]

He definitely was a good coach and good man but probably a good move at this point. Defense was built for regular season but not playoffs 

[JMM]

1 minute ago, Taro Nimbus said:

All you will be thrilled when the Defense will be worse this year.  But hey, you get what you ask for. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Oh no we might not win the D regular season championship again, no banner. Darn. Now let's talk about the playoffs D last 3 years...this change needed to happen

[Charles Romes]

1 minute ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

He definitely was a good coach and good man but probably a good move at this point. Defense was built for regular season but not playoffs 

yes waiting for the QB to make a mistake works in the regular season when you face a lot of bad qbs. You need to force the qb to make a mistake when you go against a Mahomes or burrow. 

[Airseven]

3 minutes ago, Taro Nimbus said:

All you will be thrilled when the Defense will be worse this year.  But hey, you get what you ask for. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Perhaps worse overall statistically. But hopefully more aggressive and capable of coming up with a big sack or big turnover here and there.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 minutes ago, Taro Nimbus said:

All you will be thrilled when the Defense will be worse this year.  But hey, you get what you ask for. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I didn't ask for dbs playing 12 yards off the receiver?

[Brand J]

The defense with or without Frazier was going to take a step back next season regardless. At least on paper. If they perform better than they have thus far in the postseason - which is all most of us are asking/hoping for - it’ll be condemning for Frazier.

[LABILLBACKER]

Just now, Airseven said:

Perhaps worse overall statistically. But hopefully more aggressive and capable of coming up with a big sack or big turnover here and there.

Exactly....having a top 5/10 defense in the regular season translates to squat. We saw how worthless those 70 sacks were to Philly.  KC never has a top 5 D yet every year in the playoffs Jones in getting key sacks or Bolton is scooping up fumbles.  It's about getting the key play at the right moment.  And after Taron's pic6, it's been a wasteland of nothing for 4 years.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

The man deserves privacy, but it's possible he has a medical issue either for himself or for a family member, and realizes he can't do justice to medical treatment/support AND coaching.

 

 

Hope everything is ok with Frazier. 

 

I might of been critical on his coaching (just football). But everything to him is a wonderful person. Great person to others. Wonderful guy. I'd love to get to know him in person.  Thoughts and prayers with him and everyone.

[Marcus Aurelius]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

how about Miami’s 3rd string QB?

 

OUCH!

[Big Blitz]

The defense will be rebuilding it needs a new voice.  
 

Edmonds, Poyer, and maybe Oliver could be gone.  
 

And Von will miss some to maybe a lot of time.   

 

 

Seats are getting hotter. 

[Beck Water]

 

For those who want a bit of a thoughtful analysis of the Bills statistically excellent D rather than a knee jerk hot take, this is pretty good:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-offseason-questions-how-can-the-defense-be-tweaked-to-get-over-playoff-hump/article_aaaa7c84-b398-11ed-b263-2742817ebae6.html

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Exactly....having a top 5/10 defense in the regular season translates to squat. We saw how worthless those 70 sacks were to Philly.  KC never has a top 5 D yet every year in the playoffs Jones in getting key sacks or Bolton is scooping up fumbles.  It's about getting the key play at the right moment.  And after Taron's pic6, it's been a wasteland of nothing for 4 years.

Yep, you can't expect dominating defensive performances against teams like KC and Cincy.  It's about having a defense that can slow the opponent down and get some key stops.

 

Frazier's defenses were routinely lacking in that department in the postseason.

[Riverboat Ritchie]

7 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

The defense with or without Frazier was going to take a step back next season regardless. At least on paper. If they perform better than they have thus far in the postseason - which is all most of us are asking/hoping for - it’ll be condemning for Frazier.

Wonder if loss of personnel had Frazier leave as defense is likely to take step back. Seems like he always wanted another head coach chance and might be more marketable next year if Bills D takes step back.   Good regular season coach and changed culture but that Cincy game and 13 secs were infuriating.  Wish him nothing but best and hope he is healthy. He is up there some age wise. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

You don’t think the defensive game plan, play-calling, lack of adjustments and playing a safer defensive style was a major issue in the Bills playoff losses? I do.

In his time as DC I feel like I can only point to a handful of games against good teams where the defensive game plan really impressed me (like the ravens game where they shut down Lamar, the KC game in the regular season following the AFC championship loss, and the KC game last year as well as a few others).

 

I do think Frazier did a good job here overall. I have a lot of respect for Leslie Frazier the person and for what he did in his time here. But I do think it was time for a change.

 

I think the defense kind of changed as time went on. I think McDermott was more hands-on with the defense in his early years here. But as time went on and Frazier took more control and really started pursuing a head coaching job I think he started to play things too safe. Honestly, sometimes I felt like he was more concerned about good statistics than winning the game, and the defense often felt more like a paper tiger than an actual top 5 defense. The Bills also poured an awful lot of money and resources into the defense to get those top 5 (on paper) results.

 

 

 

Also, for as good of defensive statistics as Frazier had, I think it’s somewhat telling he never really got head coaching interviews. Now maybe that’s just because of his age or because offensive head coaches are a hotter commodity. I think we will learn a lot next season by whether Frazier is in high demand by good contending teams to be their DC. If he’s a top 5 DC in the NFL I would think a number of good teams would come calling, not just mediocre/poor teams.

 

I do feel somewhat sad that his time here is over, and they always say be careful what you wish for. But I think we also needed to make a change. You can’t keep doing the same thing every year expecting different results, and I think the defensive game plan and play calling was suspect enough to make that change.

We also need to find out if Frazier was part of what was holding them back in the playoffs or if it’s actually McDermott. My hope is obviously the former.

 

I mean I disagree with almost all of this. The lack of adjustments thing in particular is maddening because it is something the Bills have been extremely good at in Frazier's period here. Consistently strong in second half defense. And it is there to people who watch the tape and understand what they are watching too. Look the Cincy game was a mess, start to finish, all units... but if you think there were no defensive adjustments in that game I honestly don't know what to say to you. The Miami game was the same, they played basically a completely different coverage scheme in the second half. It is just irritating when people repeat, ad nauseum things that are not true because they either haven't taken the time to watch the all22 or if they have watched it they just don't understand what they are watching. As for is playing a safe style a problem? No. Not for me. It is the way to play defense in the NFL in 2023. You have to make teams string drives together, that's the modern way to play. But you have to get pressure with your front 4 to make it work and the Bills too often haven't. That is less scheme and more personnel. 

 

Do I think McDermott's influence changed over the years? No. 

 

Did Leslie get Head Coaching interviews during his time here? Yes in 3 of the 6 post-seasons. 

 

Do I think Leslie could come back to a DC job in the NFL if he wants one? Yes. 

 

Did we "need" to make a change? No. 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, appoo said:

The defense performed poorly in 2 games across 3 years of playoffs where the Bills have played in 7 games 

Three games if we're being honest here:  Twice against KC and against the Bengals.  And the D wasn't exactly stellar against Indy in that playoff game either.  Came close to blowing a 24 - 10 4th quarter lead.

 

 

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

Wonder if loss of personnel had Frazier leave as defense is likely to take step back. Seems like he always wanted another head coach chance and might be more marketable next year if Bills D takes step back.   Good regular season coach and changed culture but that Cincy game and 13 secs were infuriating.  Wish him nothing but best and hope he is healthy. He is up there some age wise. 

 

Given the mountain of injuries on the D this year, he was really already playing with that anyway.  The Bills are trying to sell it as a Frazier decision, but it has a mutual agreement written all over it.

[billsfan89]

A needed change hopefully this isn’t related to health.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

Wonder if loss of personnel had Frazier leave as defense is likely to take step back. Seems like he always wanted another head coach chance and might be more marketable next year if Bills D takes step back.   Good regular season coach and changed culture but that Cincy game and 13 secs were infuriating.  Wish him nothing but best and hope he is healthy. He is up there some age wise. 

I think you nailed it here.  To me this is a clear indication that they're going all in on the offense this off season.  They sat down with Frazier and explained that not only were a lot of the defensive FA's not coming back but it would be slim pickings in FA and the draft for the D.

 

The Bills are going to need a radically different style of D going forward.  One that Frazier isn't comfortable running. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Exactly....having a top 5/10 defense in the regular season translates to squat. We saw how worthless those 70 sacks were to Philly.  KC never has a top 5 D yet every year in the playoffs Jones in getting key sacks or Bolton is scooping up fumbles.  It's about getting the key play at the right moment.  And after Taron's pic6, it's been a wasteland of nothing for 4 years.

 

EXACTLY. In key moments in the playoffs it is about talent over scheme. Ex-*****-actly. Coaches coach. Players have to play. 

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I think you nailed it here.  To me this is a clear indication that they're going all in on the offense this off season.  They sat down with Frazier and explained that not only were a lot of the defensive FA's not coming back but it would be slim pickings in FA and the draft for the D.

 

The Bills are going to need a radically different style of D going forward.  One that Frazier isn't comfortable running. 

 

 

What makes you think the Bills are going to be playing radically different style of D going forward? This is still McD's defense and I haven't heard anything suggested they will be changing the core defensive philosophy.  IMO, you're going to get the same defense, with just a different play caller, and a few different players on the field.

 

Obviously just changing who's calling the plays can have a pretty big impact on the defense since whoever takes over may be more aggressive than Frazier was.  We'll just have to wait and see.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Brand J]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

EXACTLY. In key moments in the playoffs it is about talent over scheme. Ex-*****-actly. Coaches coach. Players have to play. 

Coaches also have to put players in the best position to make said plays. Go ahead and disagree with or eyeroll this rebuttal as well. 🙄

[GunnerBill]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

Coaches also have to put players in the best position to make said plays. Go ahead and disagree with or eyeroll this rebuttal as well. 🙄

 

They do. And Leslie was good at doing it. 

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean I disagree with almost all of this. The lack of adjustments thing in particular is maddening because it is something the Bills have been extremely good at in Frazier's period here. Consistently strong in second half defense. And it is there to people who watch the tape and understand what they are watching too. Look the Cincy game was a mess, start to finish, all units... but if you think there were no defensive adjustments in that game I honestly don't know what to say to you. The Miami game was the same, they played basically a completely different coverage scheme in the second half. It is just irritating when people repeat, ad nauseum things that are not true because they either haven't taken the time to watch the all22 or if they have watched it they just don't understand what they are watching. As for is playing a safe style a problem? No. Not for me. It is the way to play defense in the NFL in 2023. You have to make teams string drives together, that's the modern way to play. But you have to get pressure with your front 4 to make it work and the Bills too often haven't. That is less scheme and more personnel. 

 

Do I think McDermott's influence changed over the years? No. 

 

Did Leslie get Head Coaching interviews during his time here? Yes in 3 of the 6 post-seasons. 

 

Do I think Leslie could come back to a DC job in the NFL if he wants one? Yes. 

 

Did we "need" to make a change? No. 

 

I agree with the point on “needing” to make a change.  Did this have to happen? No, of course not.  The defense was good. 

 

My concern with Frazier lies in the idea that the “book” is out there on him.   I’d like to see a “Spags” game out of him, or Lou A. game out of him when it matters most.  We never quite got there.   So, I completely agree - we did not need to make a change.  I just wonder if it’s time for a fresh set of eyes, for fresh ideas, and maybe a little unpredictability at key moments.  Time will tell, I guess. 

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They do. And Leslie was good at doing it. 

My definition of “good” is quite different from yours. You can put together the regular season stats that hoist Frazier on a pedestal, but the playoffs is where it counts. There’s more middling to bad teams we’ll face in the regular season than there are in the playoffs. When going against good offenses we’ve seen the result. Not over a year, not over 2 years, not even over 3. It was time for a change. 

[SCBills]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

They do. And Leslie was good at doing it. 

Sure.. in the regular season, Frazier is fantastic.  
 

He’s not the guy to slow down Mahomes/Burrow in the Playoffs.  We’ve seen enough to know that.  
 

This defense honestly needs a re-alignment, not just of coaching, but of investment.  
 

If Frazier leaving is followed by Poyer & Edmunds replaced by guys 1/3 of their cost, along with a situational pass rush specialist FA and moving Ed Oliver for picks and more size in the middle .. we may finally be onto something. 
 

And maybe they don’t annihilate bad to mid QB’s like Frazier’s D with Edmunds and Poyer, but they will have been built in a mold to better compete in the Playoffs (create more negative plays) while allowing more cap to be spent on the Offense. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

What makes you think the Bills are going to be playing radically different style of D going forward? This is still McD's defense and I haven't heard anything suggested they will be changing defensive philosophy or scheming.  IMO, you're going to get the same defense, with just a different play caller, and a few different players on the field.

Maybe it's more a hope then a belief.  But if the Bills do the right thing and pivot hard from being defensive focused to offensively focused then they'll need to change their D.  The KC model comes to mind.  Populate the D with a couple of elite play makers and the rest are JAGs (rookies, cheap FA's etc.).  Understand that this new defense will not be smothering and will not be a top 5 D in the regular season.  But it will force more then it's fair share of 3 & outs and TO's.  Which gives the offense more possessions to score.  And when one of the JAG's on this D screws up it will be a quick score or drive and the O is right back on the field. That is how KC does it.

 

 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

So more of the same, but with a less seasoned coach.  Got it.

[Sargent Hulka]

How do you entice a qualified replacement if Frazier is just taking a one year hiatus? This excuse sounds contrived.

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Sargent Hulka said:

How do you entice a qualified replacement if Frazier is just taking a one year hiatus? This excuse sounds contrived.

Frazier is taking a 1 year hiatus from coaching.  He plans to return to coaching next year, that doesn't mean he will return to be the DC of the Bills.

[Billz4ever]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

Maybe it's more a hope then a belief.  But if the Bills do the right thing and pivot hard from being defensive focused to offensively focused then they'll need to change their D.  The KC model comes to mind.  Populate the D with a couple of elite play makers and the rest are JAGs (rookies, cheap FA's etc.).  Understand that this new defense will not be smothering and will not be a top 5 D in the regular season.  But it will force more then it's fair share of 3 & outs and TO's.  Which gives the offense more possessions to score.  And when one of the JAG's on this D screws up it will be a quick score or drive and the O is right back on the field. That is how KC does it.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, one thing the postseason has shown us is that you can throw regular season defensive rankings out the window.  Build a defense that can get a couple of key stops to either force a punt or a FG and dump the rest of the resources into building an offensive juggernaut.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

Maybe it's more a hope then a belief.  But if the Bills do the right thing and pivot hard from being defensive focused to offensively focused then they'll need to change their D.  The KC model comes to mind.  Populate the D with a couple of elite play makers and the rest are JAGs (rookies, cheap FA's etc.).  Understand that this new defense will not be smothering and will not be a top 5 D in the regular season.  But it will force more then it's fair share of 3 & outs and TO's.  Which gives the offense more possessions to score.  And when one of the JAG's on this D screws up it will be a quick score or drive and the O is right back on the field. That is how KC does it.

 

 

Personnel and resource allocation wise I agree. That has to be more of the model. They shouldn't change a lot schematically though. They need to hope Tre comes back to full form. They need to develop Elam and they need to be better up front.

[Chicken Boo]

8 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

What makes you think the Bills are going to be playing radically different style of D going forward? This is still McD's defense and I haven't heard anything suggested they will be changing the core defensive philosophy.  IMO, you're going to get the same defense, with just a different play caller, and a few different players on the field.

 

This right here.  

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Sure.. in the regular season, Frazier is fantastic.  
 

He’s not the guy to slow down Mahomes/Burrow in the Playoffs.  We’ve seen enough to know that.  
 

This defense honestly needs a re-alignment, not just of coaching, but of investment.  
 

If Frazier leaving is followed by Poyer & Edmunds replaced by guys 1/3 of their cost, along with a situational pass rush specialist FA and moving Ed Oliver for picks and more size in the middle .. we may finally be onto something. 
 

And maybe they don’t annihilate bad to mid QB’s like Frazier’s D with Edmunds and Poyer, but they will have been built in a mold to better compete in the Playoffs (create more negative plays) while allowing more cap to be spent on the Offense. 

To me it isn’t even about his inability to slow down Mahomes and Burrow, there aren’t many teams who can. I mean, you’d like more resistance than tissue paper, sure, but I didn’t think it defined Frazier necessarily. When I think about his tenure, I think back to the Houston game on that 3rd and 18, when the players were lined up so far back that they weren’t in position to make a stop after the ball was thrown 8 yards. I think about the second half collapse against Indy as well. He’s almost always had a plan for Lamar Jackson, so I will most definitely give him his flowers there. But his conservative approach has shown to backfire time and time again but it’s all he knows, so he can do no different when the chips are on the table. Again, it was time for a change.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Or coached his defense to not completely fold in multiple playoff games. 

10 points.

 

dorsey should also take some time 

[Sargent Hulka]

35 minutes ago, RunninRebel37 said:

I don’t get the hate with Frazier. Bills defense under his tenure have always been…what top 10 - excluding 2018 and 2020 - with them being top 2 two different seasons. Their play in the playoffs has been sufficient too given their talent. The Bills lost to the Bengals for a variety of reasons, primarily the offensive line breaking down, receivers not getting open or making plays, and the OC not scheming anything up. 
 

Wish him the best and hope his contributions are remembered fairly and appreciated. Sean McDermott wouldn’t be who he is today without him. 

Seems to me Burrow was throwing underneath successful all day in that playoff game, plus Mixon was running wild. 

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

The reason its been worse in the playoffs is because they are playing the best of the best offenses, and in this day and age of football a good defense is not going to stop a good offense.   The Bills need to work on making their offense better than the Chiefs, not trying to stop them with defense.

I would agree with you to a point, the bills needed to be much better on offense against the Bengals, the defense and frazier dont deserve all the hate. But on the other side the bills are one of those best offenses, and Anarumo schooled the bills. Completely shut down josh and the game plan. How? Scheme. Bengals D is not more talented than the Bills but from a coaching standpoint Anarumo completely outclassed frazier. Bengals made it to the superbowl because of Anarumos adjustments at the half against the Chiefs. The Chiefs beat the Bengals this year because spagnola dialed up ways to take advantage of the back up O line of the Bengals. And bucs won a superbowl because they dialed up ways to get after mahomes.

 

Iam not a guy that's pounding the table to get rid of frazier and I know we could be much worse on defense, but I think that frazier has shown what he is, consistant. He will always have a good defense but he will never be the guy that dials up a scheme that debilitates an opposing QB and dictates a game. It will always bend but don't break. And maybe it's time to see if the bills need a scheme to help them past the Bengals/chiefs.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Norcalbillsfan

[SCBills]

Just now, FireChans said:

10 points.

 

dorsey should also take some time 

 

Thinking back, Dorsey was dealt a pretty bad hand.  I'm optimistic he has a good Year 2.  

 

-He has a brand new OL coach trying to implement a new scheme with middle of the road talent, which led to a bottom third OL ranking.  

 

-He had no real slot WR after Crowder went down early in the season.

 

-His WR2 turned out to be a high end WR3/big play threat.

 

-Josh Allen busted up his elbow halfway through the season and clearly wasn't right, albeit improving, throughout the rest of the season.  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I usually agree with your takes but I think you’re off on this one. It was time for him go. They’ve invested a whole ***** ton of assets into the defense to get these ***** show performances in the playoffs.

 

Nope. I ain't. Leslie gets heat for some failed defensive investments. And the one thing I will say for Brandon Beane on this point is he would 100% agree with me. 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

To me it isn’t even about his inability to slow down Mahomes and Burrow, there aren’t many teams who can. I mean, you’d like more resistance than tissue paper, sure, but I didn’t think it defined Frazier necessarily. When I think about his tenure, I think back to the Houston game on that 3rd and 18, when the players were lined up so far back that they weren’t in position to make a stop after the ball was thrown 8 yards. I think about the second half collapse against Indy as well. He’s almost always had a plan for Lamar Jackson, so I will most definitely give him his flowers there. But his conservative approach has shown to backfire time and time again but it’s all he knows, so he can do no different when the chips are on the table. Again, it was time for a change.

 

Agreed, which is why negative plays are so important in the playoffs.   This defense, under Frazier, with core guys like Edmunds, Oliver and Poyer just didn't create them when it mattered in the postseason.  The defense simply isn't aggressive enough for that to occur, unless we're to believe we need elite talent at every position...which isn't sustainable. 

[JoeF]

Rex is still on the market....if Vance Joseph can go back to Denver..why not Rex...😉

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by JoeF