Post Super Bowl Thought

[Santana]

Good morning!

 

After watching the Super Bowl Sunday night, I came away with this overwhelming feeling that the Bills are really far behind on creativity and scheming in their play calling. This relates to both sides of the ball but especially offensively. The Chiefs and Eagles were so creative with their running schemes and midrange passing game and the only thing I could think about is how far the Bills might actually be. I was just wondering if any of you came away with the same feeling?

 

As always, have a great day and GO BILLS!! 

[Buffalo Boy]

   If Josh would take the underneath stuff 33% more, our offensive production would be insane!!!!

   Did you notice the Chiefs playing man, across the board and forcing Hurtz to be a QB? Is there anyone on this board who doesn’t believe McFrazier would have been playing most , if not all, the DBs a minimum of 5 yards off on an overwhelming majority of the plays.

    What I saw, were two teams trying to win….Not, trying not to lose.

[RoyBatty is alive]

I don't think they are far behind, it isnt rocket science, they all had copious amounts of experience, countless hours of play scheming.  We lost because we were grossly outmanned in the trenches against Cinci.

[Gregg]

We are going to have to live with Dorsey for next season so hopefully he can improve. An improved OL along with another legit playmaker opposite Diggs will go a long way in helping Dorsey improve.

[NewEra]

That was the case in 2022.  Partly due to the OC.  Partly due to limited OL and WR units.  We definitely have a lot of work to do.

[I'm Spartacus]

I came away with the obvious thought that the Bills coaching is way behind the Chiefs and Eagles. But the biggest thing I thought about during the game was, will our head coach & coordinators LEARN from what they witnessed coaching wise - or will they continue their stubborn philosophies which IMHO will never get us over the hump.

[Fleezoid]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That was the case in 2022.  Partly due to the OC.  Partly due to limited OL and WR units.  We definitely have a lot of work to do.

 

I ain't doin' diddly-squat.

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Maybe the Bills just don’t have the tools to execute those kind of plays 

[Billz4ever]

34 minutes ago, Santana said:

Good morning!

 

After watching the Super Bowl Sunday night, I came away with this overwhelming feeling that the Bills are really far behind on creativity and scheming in their play calling. This relates to both sides of the ball but especially offensively. The Chiefs and Eagles were so creative with their running schemes and midrange passing game and the only thing I could think about is how far the Bills might actually be. I was just wondering if any of you came away with the same feeling?

 

As always, have a great day and GO BILLS!! 

What I saw were two dominant offensive lines.  Something we should be trying to build instead of signing clowns like Saffold.

[Santana]

27 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I don't think they are far behind, it isnt rocket science, they all had copious amounts of experience, countless hours of play scheming.  We lost because we were grossly outmanned in the trenches against Cinci.

Yeah I get we were outmanned but we were definitely outcoached as well. That's just my opinion.

[ngbills]

Here is my issue with the OL / WR argument. I agree that is an issue and needs to be fixed. However, the job of the coaches is to adjust. Our staff not only fails way to often to adjust to other teams. The offense especially failed to adjust to itself. Good coaching can adjust to the strengths of the team. I dont think this staff knew how to do that. Its a stubbornness or ignorance to make even subtle adjustments. Instead they try to be overly creative with new stuff that rarely worked. Its not complicated - our OL cant block maybe throw in more short quick stuff. Utilize screens to keep the D honest. WR's cant get separation - use more crossing and pick routes. No we stick with up and go's or everyone run deep that not only requires wr to get open on their own but the OL to protect. Instead we use our TE and RB to block more which makes us easier to defend.  

[Einstein]

What I took away from that Super Bowl is that:

 

1) The Eagles offensive line is insane. They could have went for every single 4th and 1 or 2 and gotten it. There is nothing the Chiefs d could do but get blown off the ball.

 

2) Andy Reid is so dang good that he erased that o-line mismatch.

[SCBills]

There's one big takeaway, and it's one i'm quite confident is lost on Beane and McDermott..

 

Eagles Defense pulled a Bills/Frazier when it mattered.  All the investment anyone could want.  Led the league all season in almost every metric.  Fell flat on their face against an elite Offense in the biggest moments. 

 

Could not tell the difference between their elite defense and the average Chiefs defense.  

 

...because that's all you need.   An average defense with a gamewrecker on the line.  Von is that for us.  Jones is that for KC.  Make no mistake, for all the offense talk, Chiefs don't even get to the Super Bowl without Chris Jones.  If he tore his ACL, it's a wrap on their season also.   However, they have a fighting shot, because they realize that beyond Chris Jones... it doesn't matter, it just has to be league average... and due to that philosophy, Mahomes has an elite OL and a ton of weapons every year. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Eh. Everyone overreacts to everything. With how the Bills were playing at the end of the season, they won’t have beat either of those teams. However, earlier in the year, they beat the Chiefs and were SB favorites. 
 

I will say that too many people just assumed Dorsey could do a job he has never done before. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Santana said:

Good morning!

 

After watching the Super Bowl Sunday night, I came away with this overwhelming feeling that the Bills are really far behind on creativity and scheming in their play calling. This relates to both sides of the ball but especially offensively. The Chiefs and Eagles were so creative with their running schemes and midrange passing game and the only thing I could think about is how far the Bills might actually be. I was just wondering if any of you came away with the same feeling?

 

As always, have a great day and GO BILLS!! 

I have been harping on this in many threads for a long time now.

 

The no. 1 thing we can do to improve our team for next season is to replace the OC with an experienced one who designs plays on a MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED LEVEL.

 

Hiring a rookie for that job was a MISTAKE and he is not going to magically morph into something substantially better in one off-season.

 

People have said this, and it sounds a bit out-there at first, but yes, we should have fired McDermott and made Daboll the head coach...and then keep him here for a long time.

 

We would have a stable, much better, offensive scheme for Josh to work, learn, and grow within.

 

We can get anyone to come in here and give us acceptable defensive coaching.

 

 

[Jerome007]

The crazy part to me, is that the offensive schemes seemed more creative in the first 5 games. Quintin Morris and Gilliam had easy TD catches, being wide open. Until the Beasley TD that was a designed bubble screen, it's like Dorsey went vanilla. Look at how simple presnap movements got the Chiefs two gimme TDs against the Eagles! At least try some!

 

The Eagles OLine is crazy good but that's way harder to fix. Schemes can be fixed... NOW.

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

They are way behind on scheming. They have no one coming up with unique game plans and they really don’t have an identity other than chuck it long and hope for the best. 

[DrDawkinstein]

So to recap... we need Better Coaching and Better OL. Groundbreaking thread.

[Santana]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

So to recap... we need Better Coaching and Better OL. Groundbreaking thread.

[Process]

Interesting. I hadn't thought of this before.

[Ramza86]

Colin Cowherd sometimes says some smart things.

 

The final 4 teams were all offensively coached teams. 

 

If you want to win a superbowl get an offensive mind at the helm

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

6 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

Colin Cowherd sometimes says some smart things.

 

The final 4 teams were all offensively coached teams. 

 

If you want to win a superbowl get an offensive mind at the helm

Edited February 15, 2023 by DaBillsFanSince1973

[Ramza86]

15 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

Lol. I see your point, but its a new era now. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Santana said:

Good morning!

 

After watching the Super Bowl Sunday night, I came away with this overwhelming feeling that the Bills are really far behind on creativity and scheming in their play calling. This relates to both sides of the ball but especially offensively. The Chiefs and Eagles were so creative with their running schemes and midrange passing game and the only thing I could think about is how far the Bills might actually be. I was just wondering if any of you came away with the same feeling?

 

As always, have a great day and GO BILLS!! 

 

THIS...times 1000.  🙌

[LittleSammy]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   If Josh would take the underneath stuff 33% more, our offensive production would be insane!!!!

   Did you notice the Chiefs playing man, across the board and forcing Hurtz to be a QB? Is there anyone on this board who doesn’t believe McFrazier would have been playing most , if not all, the DBs a minimum of 5 yards off on an overwhelming majority of the plays.

    What I saw, were two teams trying to win….Not, trying not to lose.

Unfortunately, I think you nailed what describes our coaching staff... "In the playoffs, we coach to try and not lose".

[Brand J]

The Bills under Daboll were one of the heaviest presnap motion teams. Does anyone know where they ranked with Dorsey?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 hour ago, Ramza86 said:

 

Lol. I see your point, but its a new era now. 

imagine just having a competent OC while still having a defensive mind at the helm. that would work in my opinion, new era or no new era. Dorsey learning on the job has set the team back yet they must see something most fans don't with the expectation he'll be better in his 2nd year.

 

I can only hope so because one can only imagine what the offense would have been with an experienced OC. unfortunately there really was no one available with such experience and success at OC.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by DaBillsFanSince1973

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

THIS...times 1000.  🙌

 

Good news, we've said it literally 1000 times now.

[Awwufelloff]

Dorsey only knows how to go long, zero creativity 

[Boatdrinks]

What stood out the most to me was the answers that Reid has for Mahomes schemed into seemingly every critical play. The other is just how little the defense and pass rush meant in the game. Was it 3 quarters before a sack was registered? With an offensive mind like Reid, the opposing defense is sort of an afterthought. It will be defeated eventually. It doesn’t mean the Chiefs weren’t headed for defeat in the end, though. Just that it was apparent that emphasizing defense in constructing a team isn’t the way to go. Is Beane paying attention ? Sadly, the most memorable thing about the Super Bowl was the awful ending, courtesy of Cheffers  and Co. All potential drama was sucked out of the game with a ticky tack flag that shouldn’t have been thrown - and wasn’t all night to that point. 

[Billl]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

There's one big takeaway, and it's one i'm quite confident is lost on Beane and McDermott..

 

Eagles Defense pulled a Bills/Frazier when it mattered.  All the investment anyone could want.  Led the league all season in almost every metric.  Fell flat on their face against an elite Offense in the biggest moments. 

 

Could not tell the difference between their elite defense and the average Chiefs defense.  

 

...because that's all you need.   An average defense with a gamewrecker on the line.  Von is that for us.  Jones is that for KC.  Make no mistake, for all the offense talk, Chiefs don't even get to the Super Bowl without Chris Jones.  If he tore his ACL, it's a wrap on their season also.   However, they have a fighting shot, because they realize that beyond Chris Jones... it doesn't matter, it just has to be league average... and due to that philosophy, Mahomes has an elite OL and a ton of weapons every year. 

The Chiefs just drafted two defensive players in the first round, one in the second round, one in the third round, one in the fourth round, and two in the seventh round.  All 7 of them played in the Superbowl and 4 of them were starters.

 

Chris Jones is a monster, but 6 of those guys were major contributions.  Kansas City just isn't as worried about losing games during the regular season because of rookie mistakes.  Reid understands that the postseason is all that matters, and he coaches to win in January even if it means talking your lumps in November.

[ProcessTruster]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   If Josh would take the underneath stuff 33% more, our offensive production would be insane!!!!

   Did you notice the Chiefs playing man, across the board and forcing Hurtz to be a QB? Is there anyone on this board who doesn’t believe McFrazier would have been playing most , if not all, the DBs a minimum of 5 yards off on an overwhelming majority of the plays.

    What I saw, were two teams trying to win….Not, trying not to lose.

Without DaQuan (which then limits Oliver) and Von Miller, Frazier would have been insane to play play man on a snowy, sloppy field with no pass rush .  Cinci WRs (any WRs in fact) would have been open all day.  Guess the D was pretty much screwed that day by the weather, a weakened secondary and not having the two FAs they got specifically for that game.   Sounds like excuses, but backups kind of suck in today's NFL.  

 

Let's see how they play it back in 2023.   I just wanna see my team with the guys they blew their salary cap on (Hyde, Miller, Jones, White) actually playing in the f ing game at 100%.    

[Jerome007]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

So to recap... we need Better Coaching and Better OL. Groundbreaking thread.

Yes. And the BiIls need another WR1, only "man island" defensive backs, linebackers that will replace Edmunds for 10% of the cost, and so on. Thank you. Now we won't post till Septembre 2023. We wouldn't want to disturb you.

 

Nope, the point is that better schemes take ZERO new players. It can be done... NOW. As for the Oline, yeah we all pretty much agree it's the priority, and the Superbowl showed it. But I also thought our DBs were so much better. And Diggs beat any WR in that SB. Fans only see their team's weak points, as if other teams don't have any! 

 

But we can't have coaches continue to lose games....

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

The Chiefs just drafted two defensive players in the first round, one in the second round, one in the third round, one in the fourth round, and two in the seventh round.  All 7 of them played in the Superbowl and 4 of them were starters.

 

Chris Jones is a monster, but 6 of those guys were major contributions.  Kansas City just isn't as worried about losing games during the regular season because of rookie mistakes.  Reid understands that the postseason is all that matters, and he coaches to win in January even if it means talking your lumps in November.

Id counter with the fact KC doesn’t invest heavy dollars, outside pass rush, to guys on defense.  Evidenced by letting Sneed walk.  
 

Also bolstered by having excess picks. 
 

If the Bills took a blow torch to the defense and had to draft a LB and CB early, but spent like the Chiefs did on OL.. I’d be all about it. 
 

The difference between the two teams, aside from the Chiefs drafting better lately, is that they don’t get cap strapped to help Mahomes because of defensive investment.  
 

I don’t think Veach would pay Edmunds. I also don’t think he’d ever have picked up Oliver’s fifth year option.    Yet we’re all worried about cap issues re: offensive help here because Edmunds and Oliver are likely going to eat up 24M of cap space next year.  

[Mr. WEO]

so fresh.....

[Jauronimo]

It looked like we were playing on hard mode most of the year.  KC, San Fran, Philly scheme guys wide open while our offense is just "Allen go do crazy *****!".

[John from Riverside]

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

It looked like we were playing on hard mode most of the year.  KC, San Fran, Philly scheme guys wide open while our offense is just "Allen go do crazy *****!".

It would help if we didn’t have three men rushes chasing Josh Allen around

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eh. Everyone overreacts to everything. With how the Bills were playing at the end of the season, they won’t have beat either of those teams. However, earlier in the year, they beat the Chiefs and were SB favorites. 
 

I will say that too many people just assumed Dorsey could do a job he has never done before. 

Actually to the credit of this board, I would say the majority felt Dorsey was one of the biggest if not biggest question mark going into the season.

I thought Beane had done enough with the OL by bringing back Bates and signing Saffold.  But Brown and Dawkins both regressed and after a few good games Saffold was terrible.  Every backup except Q was gross.  They will all be gone.  Beane needs to draft at least 3 OL - an OT, a C/G, and another OT that can play G, in the first 5 rounds maybe even in the first 4. I am fine with their philosophy of being able to play multiple spots.  

Yes Davis had a lot of drops but his numbers improved over 2021 and his numbers for a #2 are good enough.  The failings are not getting Knox enough targets, and finding a consistent move the chains type guy underneath.  I would still draft a WR in the first two rounds next year.  They will not be able to afford Davis and they need to start getting younger at WR.  

[LABILLBACKER]

11 hours ago, Santana said:

Yeah I get we were outmanned but we were definitely outcoached as well. That's just my opinion.

Trust me, we were seriously outcoached....more than an opinion. 

[Ramza86]

17 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

imagine just having a competent OC while still having a defensive mind at the helm. that would work in my opinion, new era or no new era. Dorsey learning on the job has set the team back yet they must see something most fans don't with the expectation he'll be better in his 2nd year.

 

I can only hope so because one can only imagine what the offense would have been with an experienced OC. unfortunately there really was no one available with such experience and success at OC.

 

 

 

That OC will take a head coaching position in a year after having "success" with Allen.

 

The HC needs to be the offensive mind as to continue to have a consistent offense throughout Josh Allens career.