If Frazier returns, how much will your enthusism die?

[Bangarang]

I will literally cry myself to sleep every night and probably not watch a single game. 

[RyanC883]

Enthusiasm still high, expectations lower.  Like another early playoff exit. 

[Buffalo ill]

While the defense isn't the strength of the team, I think a few tweaks to the down and distance awareness, a focus on tackling, and not having Hyde and Miller injured, it will be good enough. 

 

The team needs the offense to not lay a 10 point egg in the playoffs.  Josh needs to stop throwing red zone interceptions.  And they should draft as many bpa offensive linemen as possible.  Obviously if an absolute stud/immediate upgrade for another position falls to them, take it.

[drummernut74]

Expecting we keep Frazier … What IF all of a sudden they adjust their defensive approach to a more aggressive and unpredictable style? My concerns are that we’d still find a way to come up empty and heartbroken, because we’re always “learning” and a day late and a dollar short on figuring things out.  This is “the process”, keep learning, keep getting better, and it eventually “works out”. We’re punch drunk on “the process” while other great teams know what it takes and just plow over us 

Edited February 5, 2023 by drummernut74

[Saint Doug]

Just a reminder to everyone:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-dc-leslie-frazier-says-its-discouraging-he-hasnt-received-another-chance-to-be-an-nfl-head-coach/

[Dubie54]

4 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Just a reminder to everyone:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-dc-leslie-frazier-says-its-discouraging-he-hasnt-received-another-chance-to-be-an-nfl-head-coach/

Discouraging? What’s discouraging is the 13 seconds. What’s discouraging is the defensive schemes he has cooked up when it really matters. 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

Title sums it up.  Honestly, I feel very little excitement or enthusiasm.  I don't see us getting over the hump.  I may not even watch some (or all) of the games until the playoffs (if we even make it).

 

I had enthusiasm last off-season, despite 13-seconds.  I thought the team could get there.  But from what I've seen from the team, I find I have lost all faith in our D schemes.  The only way we pull this off is if Allen puts up 40-50 points in a game.

 

Anyone else feeling this way?

My favorite meme in Bills land is thinking OC/DC are the biggest problems, no matter who the players are.

 

Did we suck in 2012 because Chan was the HC/OC or was it because we had crappy QB's?

 

Did our defense suck in 2012 because of Dave Wannstedt at DC or was it because we had crappy players?

 

If you think a new DC = 2000 Ravens with this defense, or Sean Payton = 2013 Broncos with this offense, you aren't paying attention to the league.

 

Most teams have fine coordinators. There are a few teams with horrific coordinators but those teams, again, usually aren't top 5 as units in the regular season.  They also are usually saddled with crap players.

 

IMO, Dorsey and Frazier both have their issues. Dorsey can't find an identity, falls in love with the big play etc etc. Frazier gets a little conservative at times (although, to be fair, it's hard to be aggressive with backup CB's who need backup S help all the time).

 

There is no "hire this coordinator and AJE will be good."  That coordinator does not exist.  There is also no "hire this coordinator and Roger Saffold will stop being the biggest tub of goo playing LG since Vlad Ducasse."

[Aussie Joe]

40 minutes ago, Rico said:

I haven’t had a real whipping boy on the Bills since Russ Brandon was canned, so I can get excited about bashing the ***** out of McD and Frazier if they don’t wake up. 

 

Thats because Jamison Crowder didnt get to play enough this year...

[WhoTom]

I watched every Bills game in the Jauron/Edwards era.

 

We now have a GM, HC, and QB who've turned the Bills into perennial contenders, and you think I'm gonna be less-than-enthused about them because the DC who runs a consistent top-5 defense (in spite of a slew of injuries) is coming back? Not a chance. I'm all in, just like I was last season.

 

 

[Saint Doug]

8 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

I watched every Bills game in the Jauron/Edwards era.

 

We now have a GM, HC, and QB who've turned the Bills into perennial contenders, and you think I'm gonna be less-than-enthused about them because the DC who runs a consistent top-5 defense (in spite of a slew of injuries) is coming back? Not a chance. I'm all in, just like I was last season.

 

 

Do you not think that expectations change as the data changes? Based on what you said, would you be satisfied if we made the playoffs each each for the next 10 years, but get bumped after each wild-card round?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

At this point there’s no reason to think he won’t be back. In the back of my mind I’ll just know the next season probably has an expiration date. That’s very upsetting. I can’t imagine a situation where anything gets better with Fraizer involved. The guy runs the same thing every week every drive regardless of down or distance. If the guys we have on the back end weren’t incredible, we’d be one of the worst defenses in football. It’s embarrassing that a top end team trots out a pre season defensive scheme. All you can hope is the guy somehow leaves on his own.

At this point there’s no reason to think he won’t be back. In the back of my mind I’ll just know the next season probably has an expiration date. That’s very upsetting. I can’t imagine a situation where anything gets better with Fraizer involved. The guy runs the same thing every week every drive regardless of down or distance. If the guys we have on the back end weren’t incredible, we’d be one of the worst defenses in football. It’s embarrassing that a top end team trots out a pre season defensive scheme. All you can hope is the guy somehow leaves on his own.

At this point there’s no reason to think he won’t be back. In the back of my mind I’ll just know the next season probably has an expiration date. That’s very upsetting. I can’t imagine a situation where anything gets better with Fraizer involved. The guy runs the same thing every week every drive regardless of down or distance. If the guys we have on the back end weren’t incredible, we’d be one of the worst defenses in football. It’s embarrassing that a top end team trots out a pre season defensive scheme. All you can hope is the guy somehow leaves on his own.

[CoudyBills]

All of it, all the death.  

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

He's coming back & so is Dorsey. Dorsey I think is more of a concern. I'm not enthused, but I'll withhold final Judgement until I see what our final Roster moves look like. Need some upgrades.

 

Dorsey is less of a concern because he's young and just had his first year. Leslie's been coaching for 35 years and for at least the last 15 his defense has been what it is today. get used to more of the same.

It's not just Frazier though, even if he is a massive part of it. I've been convinced that this team won't win a championship under McDermott unless it's just flat out gifted to us through upsets/injuries to the best teams in the league. He's a nice guy who creates a culture of nice guys and they'll have the kind of success that nice guys get, while the teams that go hard take eat their lunch year after year.

We're Marty Schottenheimer's Chargers with less talent..

Edited February 6, 2023 by BullBuchanan

[Xwnyer]

2 hours ago, The Red King said:

Title sums it up.  Honestly, I feel very little excitement or enthusiasm.  I don't see us getting over the hump.  I may not even watch some (or all) of the games until the playoffs (if we even make it).

 

I had enthusiasm last off-season, despite 13-seconds.  I thought the team could get there.  But from what I've seen from the team, I find I have lost all faith in our D schemes.  The only way we pull this off is if Allen puts up 40-50 points in a game.

 

Anyone else feeling this way?

I will be in 17 year mold hoping for a few good wins against good teams.  Both coordinators should be fired

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, The Red King said:

Title sums it up.  Honestly, I feel very little excitement or enthusiasm.  I don't see us getting over the hump.  I may not even watch some (or all) of the games until the playoffs (if we even make it).

 

I had enthusiasm last off-season, despite 13-seconds.  I thought the team could get there.  But from what I've seen from the team, I find I have lost all faith in our D schemes.  The only way we pull this off is if Allen puts up 40-50 points in a game.

 

Anyone else feeling this way?

 

I feel enthusiasm that some of the Bills Mafia will jump off and make room for others.

[GolfandBills]

2 hours ago, JimBob2232 said:

None. He is a good DC.   2 bad playoff games not withstanding.  I can’t forgive those 2 game - but he is still a good DC we can win with. 

2?  More 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, The Red King said:

Title sums it up.  Honestly, I feel very little excitement or enthusiasm.  I don't see us getting over the hump.  I may not even watch some (or all) of the games until the playoffs (if we even make it).

 

I had enthusiasm last off-season, despite 13-seconds.  I thought the team could get there.  But from what I've seen from the team, I find I have lost all faith in our D schemes.  The only way we pull this off is if Allen puts up 40-50 points in a game.

 

Anyone else feeling this way?

More important to me is what the Bills do in Free Agency and the draft.  The majority of their FA signings and draft picks have to be on the offensive side of the ball.  A real effort to improve their O line and upgrade the WR group has to happen for me to stay excited about next season. 

 

5 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

2?  More 

Yep.  Squandering a 16 - 0 lead late in the 3rd quarter against Houston and almost squandering a 24 - 10 lead against Indy early in the 4th quarter should be placed alongside the 13 seconds debacle & their no show in the snow against Cincy. And let's not forget the AFC Championship game in which the D let the Chiefs go up and down the field at will on the way to giving up 38 points.

 

 

[Negan]

I'll just assume Allen will know he'll have to drop 40 points per game in the playoffs.

[Donuts and Doritos]

54 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Dorsey is less of a concern because he's young and just had his first year. Leslie's been coaching for 35 years and for at least the last 15 his defense has been what it is today. get used to more of the same.

It's not just Frazier though, even if he is a massive part of it. I've been convinced that this team won't win a championship under McDermott unless it's just flat out gifted to us through upsets/injuries to the best teams in the league. He's a nice guy who creates a culture of nice guys and they'll have the kind of success that nice guys get, while the teams that go hard take eat their lunch year after year.

We're Marty Schottenheimer's Chargers with less talent..

 

No D was holding Cincy to less than the measley 10 pts Dorsey's O out up. The D kept us in the Miami game the week before (when Dorsey called to Go routes to Davis back to back when we needed to run clock), the D & 2 kick returns beat the Pats. The D held long enough for the O to get it together in a number of games this year & held despite getting put on short fields bc of turnovers by the O. Dorsey schemes no one open, there are no picks, rubs, very few quick slants. Don't know why we think he's going to improve, he didn't get better as the season went on, it actually looked like they got worse. By the time he does our window could be closed. Point is, Frazier has had good D's & dealt w/ a lot of injuries, Dorsey has never shown he can do it for a season, & his group was relatively healthy when they put up 10 pts. & While you may be right about McD, they way he handled the Hamlin situation absolutely buys him at least another season.

[BillsFan130]

I’ll watch every single play and snap.

 

But yes I do agree that my excitement level would go down a little.

 

I don’t think the bills will win a SB with that guy as the DC. (MCD also needs to be held accountable as well)

Edited February 6, 2023 by BillsFan130

[Rebel101]

16 hours ago, StHustle said:

Lol @ “if we even make it” 

 

We just tied for most wins in franchise history…had an 8 game win streak before the Bengals loss… and you aren’t even sure if we are a playoff team now?

 

Bills were top 3 in least points given up this season and now we gotta score 40-50 a game to win? 🙄

The sky is really falling for some of you so called fans! 

 

With that said…I’d be disappointed if Frazier is  back but if he is…no way Id stop watching games and anyone who does isn’t a real fan. I watched every game during the drought years and not so spoiled that I’d throw a fit and stop watching cause of this. 
 

 

This is the problem though people think what just happened is acceptable because The Bills are now decent. Every analyst, everyone in that locker room knew if the Bills didn’t win a SB the season is a failure. They looked soft in the divisional round, opponents were doing snow angels on the field, and they were beaten by using the same old tactics, soft scheme, no urgency, and a lack of motivation. The offense is also poorly managed. Dorsey has no scheme it’s a free for all. Receivers are told to get open & if they think they can beat their man then to go deep. That’s not a game plan or a scheme. You shouldn’t be happy with how they preformed in a game that mattered. They didn’t seem to care to me. They just went with what they know. The only reason we won so many games is because of JA. Coaching has been horrible on gameday for his entire tenure & he clearly isn’t learning from his mistakes. Nor are his coordinators. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rebel101

[Marcus Aurelius]

-3 dB

[Repulsif]

If you expect something good with with defense when we reach the playoffs, you are fooling yourself

So, I expect pain

[Mike in Horseheads]

You need to make this a poll.  Since he's obviously returning my answer is none, have to accept the loser.

[Bermuda Triangle]

4 hours ago, JimBob2232 said:

None. He is a good DC.   2 bad playoff games not withstanding.  I can’t forgive those 2 game - but he is still a good DC we can win with. 

2 bad playoff games?  I wish it were only 2 bad games.

[Mister Defense]

Umm, it will not die, it will be increased--one of the best defensive coordinators in the game now and maybe one of the best all time.

 

Now for Dorsey, having him come back and trash the potential of this offense again, but this time more so I believe, that is extremely discouraging.

 

To me, that was the biggest weakness is the team this year, undermining a great young quarterback and a running game that could still be playing--if used at all correctly.  Like Greg Cosell said, he saw no connection between the Bills running game and the passing game? Not symbiotic at all. How much more damning of a statement can there be?

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Mister Defense

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

I was completely void of belief we’d win a SB with Frazier lazy defense after the 13 second disaster so this year was just blah for me. I saw it coming. The fact they’re going to just run it back tells me they’re not serious about winning anyways so I’m not investing as much of my time into getting pumped up for the team. Normally I’m doing mock drafts, watching the senior bowl, listening to mock draft podcasts, etc.. Not anymore. They’re just going to whiff on their picks anyways or take another JAG DE or another Bernard anyways. 

[US Egg]

Henry the VIII wouldn’t wait this long for heads to roll under his watch.

 

Something to be said for 16th century justice in todays modern NFL.

[Governor]

My enthusiasm died when they hired him. This man has been torturing me for years now. Always knowing deep down that it won’t ever be good enough. Why are they doing this?

Edited February 6, 2023 by Governor

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

2 bad playoff games?  I wish it were only 2 bad games.

Colts game was actually terrible as well. Got very lucky.

 

Dolphins game was terrible defense.

 

Bad performances 

2020 Colts

2020 Chiefs

2021 Chiefs

2022 Dolphins 

2022 Bengals 

 

 

 

I get what fans are saying about the defense. I feel we’ve lacked the DL needed to win defensively in the playoffs. He’s had some good performances as well.

 

2017 Jaguars

2020 Ravens

2021 Patriots 

 

I want to put Houston in the good category because the players had so many bad plays in that game that would’ve and should’ve ended it.

 

[US Egg]

15 minutes ago, Governor said:

My enthusiasm died when they hired him. This man has been torturing me for years now. Always knowing deep down that it won’t ever be good enough. Why are they doing this?

Maybe cause they are anti-Governor?

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, drummernut74 said:

Expecting we keep Frazier … What IF all of a sudden they adjust their defensive approach to a more aggressive and unpredictable style? My concerns are that we’d still find a way to come up empty and heartbroken, because we’re always “learning” and a day late and a dollar short on figuring things out.  This is “the process”, keep learning, keep getting better, and it eventually “works out”. We’re punch drunk on “the process” while other great teams know what it takes and just plow over us 

There will come a time very soon when we stop talking about process and culture in order to move ahead to personnel and execution. That goes for coaches and players.

[Governor]

39 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

Maybe cause they are anti-Governor?

What bothers me most about him is his game preparation for important games. His entire career is dismal. His defenses never ever show up ready.

 

2. We had just gone through 20 years of hiring washed up retreads and they hand us Frazier???? It doesn’t get more retread than that. Terrible hire right out of the gate.

 

It was at least 10 years since anyone had heard Frazier’s name until we hired him. How did he even make the short list to be hired in the first place?

Edited February 6, 2023 by Governor

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I feel enthusiasm that some of the Bills Mafia will jump off and make room for others.

Cool....we'll replace realistic fans tired of settling for early playoff exits with delusional satisfied fans content with winning the regular season trophy.  Yay

[Trogdor]

4 hours ago, arcane said:

The sheer misery being exuded by a lot of people in bills land lately is jarring and unbearable and has so much more impact on my mental state towards football and the Bills right now than the actual bills do. Consuming bills discussion right now feels like ingesting poison. 

 

In August, you bet I'm going to be pumped to watch Josh Allen and the bills give it another go. And I hope to God i don't run into some of you 

It's tough to finally get hope and just get completely outclassed. It was easier when they sucked. 

[Solomon Grundy]

What makes all of the "keep Frazier" fans think that everyone from the defense will stay healthy all season?? Adjustments needed to be made for such situations and he failed!! Time for change!! 

[Franco_92]

3 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

It's tough to finally get hope and just get completely outclassed. It was easier when they sucked. 

It was not lol. Not for one single fan on this entire earth. This is just the most recent heartbreak, so it's the most fresh, and this claim is the most predictable psychological reaction there is 

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

45 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Colts game was actually terrible as well. Got very lucky.

 

Dolphins game was terrible defense.

 

Bad performances 

2020 Colts

2020 Chiefs

2021 Chiefs

2022 Dolphins 

2022 Bengals 

 

 

 

I get what fans are saying about the defense. I feel we’ve lacked the DL needed to win defensively in the playoffs. He’s had some good performances as well.

 

2017 Jaguars

2020 Ravens

2021 Patriots 

 

I want to put Houston in the good category because the players had so many bad plays in that game that would’ve and should’ve ended it.

 

 I put the Houston game on the D as well.  A 16-0 lead in the 3rd quarter simply cannot be surrendered.  IMO, the defense was bad in 6/9 playoff games.

[Success]

Not too much affects my enthusiasm. The Bills are my team, and things like coaching hires & fires are out of my control entirely.  

 

I just ride w/ whatever we have, and I'm always 100% stoked when the season starts - especially now w/ JA at QB.  I'll be just as all in next year, even if Frazier is back at DC.

 

[Trogdor]

21 minutes ago, arcane said:

It was not lol. Not for one single fan on this entire earth. This is just the most recent heartbreak, so it's the most fresh, and this claim is the most predictable psychological reaction there is 

 

You don't think this year was hard? Easily the biggest letdown in 20+yrs with all the Superbowl predictions. You're out of touch if you think people didn't get their hopes up even through the just win second half of the season. When they sucked it was easy to point to the roster or the GM and not get so invested. I think collectively we thought this was our year in Buffalo and then watched as we slipped back in the AFC.