st pete gogolak Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Full disclosure. I've been a Bills fan since 1965 so I'm obviously biased about this because if it somehow came to pass it would benefit the Bills enormously. That said, QB compensation in the NFL and how it distorts the salary cap is, if not unfair, frankly bizarre and unlike any other sport that maintains a salary cap. That's because QB compensation is so dramatically higher than any other position. That's not true in basketball or hockey. Yes, you pay your superstars but McDavid isn't making double or triple every single one of his teammates. You're punished for selecting a QB who turns into a franchise QB. That's if you do it right. Heaven help you if you pay a QB that lands you in cap purgatory (Prescott, Cousins) or, even worse, one that lands you in cap hell (Wilson). A carve out probably lets the Raiders keep Carr. I don't know what the solution is but you shouldn't have to gut your team because you found your franchise quarterback. 2 1 2 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 I've often thought about having a separate salary cap or some type of similar control in the league, JUST for the Quarterback position. You would think the NFLPA would love that idea, because the day will come when the QB and a few key players make ALL the money, and everyone else makes league minimum. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 I say it's just the nature of the beast. You have to navigate the situation and draft well is what it boils down to. People will continue to get paid other than QB's, with some teams investing more in them than others. QB will always remain a large chunk of a team's salary cap, especially those fortunate enough to have Franchise one who gets to that 2nd contract or beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 Just now, H2o said: I say it's just the nature of the beast. You have to navigate the situation and draft well is what it boils down to. People will continue to get paid other than QB's, with some teams investing more in them than others. QB will always remain a large chunk of a team's salary cap, especially those fortunate enough to have Franchise one who gets to that 2nd contract or beyond. That's just the point. Is that system a fair system? What if in the NHL goalies made four times what any other player made? You could field a good team with a crap goalie or a great goalie with a crap team. Who would want a system like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 The system works as it is. 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 I am enjoying the higher ticket prices. Let's not mess with it 15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Just now, st pete gogolak said: That's just the point. Is that system a fair system? What if in the NHL goalies made four times what any other player made? You could field a good team with a crap goalie or a great goalie with a crap team. Who would want a system like that? Just because you have a Franchise QB doesn't mean you have to have a bad team around them. You have to draft well and spend the rest of your $$$ wisely. Brady, Ben Ro, Mahomes, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and so on. All of these guys took up large portions of the Salary Cap and still had good enough to win the SB teams around them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said: That's just the point. Is that system a fair system? What if in the NHL goalies made four times what any other player made? You could field a good team with a crap goalie or a great goalie with a crap team. Who would want a system like that? You want the wealthiest owners to just buy up the best QBs and then have a full cap to work with? That’s what would happen. 5 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 36 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said: Full disclosure. I've been a Bills fan since 1965 so I'm obviously biased about this because if it somehow came to pass it would benefit the Bills enormously. That said, QB compensation in the NFL and how it distorts the salary cap is, if not unfair, frankly bizarre and unlike any other sport that maintains a salary cap. That's because QB compensation is so dramatically higher than any other position. That's not true in basketball or hockey. Yes, you pay your superstars but McDavid isn't making double or triple every single one of his teammates. You're punished for selecting a QB who turns into a franchise QB. That's if you do it right. Heaven help you if you pay a QB that lands you in cap purgatory (Prescott, Cousins) or, even worse, one that lands you in cap hell (Wilson). A carve out probably lets the Raiders keep Carr. I don't know what the solution is but you shouldn't have to gut your team because you found your franchise quarterback. Just a really bad idea that would horribly damage the parity in the league. The thought of it is rooted in short term self-interest. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4th&long Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 I don’t know about that but the owners better loosen up that cap. I have never tuned into a game, went to the stadium or bought a jersey because of the owner in the box! 18 minutes ago, White Linen said: The system works as it is. Works for who? After waiting 20 years to get this roster built now we get to watch it get broken up because of the salary cap? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 My proposal: Only non-drafted players count toward the salary cap. So you can keep all of your drafted or UDFA and it has no cap impact. But free agent spending is capped and leveled out amongst teams. Rewards teams that draft well rather than punish them. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 How about tweaking the rules so that they are not so biased for passing offence, so that QBs are less valuable and teams can win with average QBs and a good running game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Positive Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 If the QB position was uncapped, guys like Mahomes would have infinite value. How much do you think Jerry Jones would pay Mahomes in an open FA market. $200 million? More? I have no idea, but it would be a lot more than $50 million. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Steve Tasker mentioned today that there is no longer a "middle class" when it comes to player salaries. They have risen so drastically, that it is harder to manage your roster as the salary cap is taken up by just a handful on the team. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 20 minutes ago, 4th&long said: Works for who? After waiting 20 years to get this roster built now we get to watch it get broken up because of the salary cap? It works for the teams who draft well and spend the rest of their $$$ on the right people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goin Breakdown Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 38 minutes ago, HOUSE said: I am enjoying the higher ticket prices. Let's not mess with it Man this kinda pisses me off thinking of it this way. But you're right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Yes. The qbs contracts are stupid. So many garbage qbs get paid because you can’t risk losing a decent one and it kills your cap. It’s also kinda insulting to the rest of your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Did we care about this when we had Peterman? Somebody go back and look through the thread history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 44 minutes ago, H2o said: Just because you have a Franchise QB doesn't mean you have to have a bad team around them. You have to draft well and spend the rest of your $$$ wisely. Brady, Ben Ro, Mahomes, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and so on. All of these guys took up large portions of the Salary Cap and still had good enough to win the SB teams around them. If you take Brady out, the other five won a total of seven SB, not that impressive considering how talented those 5 were. Mahommes is kind of an outlier in there too as hasn't been around enough to see what happens long term with team. So do agree with the OP is hard to field and maintain a top team when the QB makes a disproportionate share of total salary cap. Put it another way, lets assume Bills won SB next season, after that Allen plays another ten years and they never win again. They win division most years, maybe get to 2nd round of playoffs, one, maybe two times made conf championship. Would you be happy, and content and not question need for a coaching change. That's kind of what Ben Ro, Manning, Rodgers, and Brees did. It was always wait till next year, were always good, but never able to win it all again. Maybe a better idea than a separate salary cap would be a bonus amount of money not counted towards cap and you get to use it every X amount of years. All the money can be given to one player or split up between a couple of players if team doesn't have a true franchise QB. Likely most of time money would go to QB, but not always. Money comes out of owners pocket, can choose to spend it or not spend it, but gives a team a better chance of keeping core together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Almost everything the NFL does has a goal of parity. It's fair the way it is. You want an elite QB? Cool - but you'll have to cut corners elsewhere. Can't find an elite QB? Spend your money on other impact players. Theoretically, it gives every team a chance to contend. But we're in good shape. JA's contract will seem cheap the year after next. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: If you take Brady out, the other five won a total of seven SB, not that impressive considering how talented those 5 were. Mahommes is kind of an outlier in there too as hasn't been around enough to see what happens long term with team. So do agree with the OP is hard to field and maintain a top team when the QB makes a disproportionate share of total salary cap. Take him out like have him whacked? I mean, I'm all for it, but it seems a bit extreme. On the serious side, Brady was not setting the market for QB contracts for a significant portion of that run in NE***. It's highly likely, IMO, that he had something worked out with Kraft to offset it (which I'm sure was within the letter and the spirit of the rules of player compensation ). It also didn't hurt that his sugar momma make significantly more than he did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwnyer Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Yes separate it maybe DTV z could have continued to provide NFLST free to me as it has for last 20 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 36 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Did we care about this when we had Peterman? Somebody go back and look through the thread history. Bills fans discussing a thing when it becomes relevant to the Bills? Oh the horror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, 4th&long said: Works for who? After waiting 20 years to get this roster built now we get to watch it get broken up because of the salary cap? Yes. Actually this is PROOF it works. its designed for parity. Good teams cant keep all their good players - so they walk to the worse teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I think it is a great idea but I would modify it. Have a cap that is 52+1. You can designate any player as the +1 that is exempt from the salary cap calculation. You coudl even put a tax on that +1 if you wanted to and spread that money around the league. There should not be this degree of a penalty for drafting and developing a franchise QB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, transient said: Take him out like have him whacked? I mean, I'm all for it, but it seems a bit extreme. On the serious side, Brady was not setting the market for QB contracts for a significant portion of that run in NE***. It's highly likely, IMO, that he had something worked out with Kraft to offset it (which I'm sure was within the letter and the spirit of the rules of player compensation ). It also didn't hurt that his sugar momma make significantly more than he did. Agree he was the outlier in two ways, he worked for peanuts LOL and won many SB's compared to rest. Wouldn't be surprised to see him play another ten years now that doesn't have allowance money coming from from sugar momma. Or maybe he's started a go fund me page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoAZBillfan Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 hours ago, HOUSE said: I am enjoying the higher ticket prices. Let's not mess with it Only because you can’t find your wallet I’m guessing?😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern_Bills Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) Eh, if this came to pass teams without a Franchise QB would be at an even greater disadvantage. We all know a Franchise QB greatly increases the chance of victory. If they equaled the teams outside of the QB on top of that, well we could probably pick the conference championship games on week 1. I wouldn't be a fan. Edited February 1, 2023 by Southern_Bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: Full disclosure. I've been a Bills fan since 1965 so I'm obviously biased about this because if it somehow came to pass it would benefit the Bills enormously. That said, QB compensation in the NFL and how it distorts the salary cap is, if not unfair, frankly bizarre and unlike any other sport that maintains a salary cap. That's because QB compensation is so dramatically higher than any other position. That's not true in basketball or hockey. Yes, you pay your superstars but McDavid isn't making double or triple every single one of his teammates. You're punished for selecting a QB who turns into a franchise QB. That's if you do it right. Heaven help you if you pay a QB that lands you in cap purgatory (Prescott, Cousins) or, even worse, one that lands you in cap hell (Wilson). A carve out probably lets the Raiders keep Carr. I don't know what the solution is but you shouldn't have to gut your team because you found your franchise quarterback. Why would the owners want that? And why would we? The salary cap levels the playing field. Let the most important player be signed without limit and you'd get the higher income teams outbidding everyone and winning every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Billl said: You want the wealthiest owners to just buy up the best QBs and then have a full cap to work with? That’s what would happen. The second most cap benefit this year would accrue to KC, and if this came to pass, Andy would have $35MM to beef up his defense. No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) So...you're saying make the QUARTERBACK portion of the salary cap "unlimited"? Why would the owners agree to that? It defeats the purpose of the salary cap. But,owners and players could demand a larger slice of the financial pie from the media contracts. As for your comparison to other sports; Lots of players make WAY more than double/triple some of their their teammates;Yankees have Judge, Cole, Rodon, Stanton,Donaldson,et.al earning 25,30,40 million annually with guys at the bottom of the making 2 million. Its business: the STARS sell tickets and merchandise and attract advertising revenue. Edited February 1, 2023 by Herb Nightly Punctuation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: Full disclosure. I've been a Bills fan since 1965 so I'm obviously biased about this because if it somehow came to pass it would benefit the Bills enormously. That said, QB compensation in the NFL and how it distorts the salary cap is, if not unfair, frankly bizarre and unlike any other sport that maintains a salary cap. That's because QB compensation is so dramatically higher than any other position. That's not true in basketball or hockey. Yes, you pay your superstars but McDavid isn't making double or triple every single one of his teammates. You're punished for selecting a QB who turns into a franchise QB. That's if you do it right. Heaven help you if you pay a QB that lands you in cap purgatory (Prescott, Cousins) or, even worse, one that lands you in cap hell (Wilson). A carve out probably lets the Raiders keep Carr. I don't know what the solution is but you shouldn't have to gut your team because you found your franchise quarterback. I do think there should be a cap on how much a player makes based on position. They are talking about Burrow getting $50 million a year which is beyond insane for any one player. WRs are starting to work their way to $30 million a year. It's getting out of hand. Teams are gonna cap strapping their teams with 2 or 3 players. That shouldn't happen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rew Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 What about keeping the current system, but adding a rule that the top cap hit can only be 10x (or 20x or whatever the right number is) the median cap hit? Or just adding a hard limit that a single player may only account for 20% of the cap before hitting penalties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: I think it is a great idea but I would modify it. Have a cap that is 52+1. You can designate any player as the +1 that is exempt from the salary cap calculation. You coudl even put a tax on that +1 if you wanted to and spread that money around the league. There should not be this degree of a penalty for drafting and developing a franchise QB. It’s been flirted with before, but if there was going to be a time for the QB to start to become less important it is likely right around the corner. We’ve seen Kyle Shanahan get huge production out of the likes of 3 different third stringers. McVay has gotten SB production out of Goff and Stafford, plus Baker off the streets. Then McDaniels with Tua. It’s not a coincidence they’re from the same coaching tree. But there is a serious trend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 48 minutes ago, Rew said: What about keeping the current system, but adding a rule that the top cap hit can only be 10x (or 20x or whatever the right number is) the median cap hit? Or just adding a hard limit that a single player may only account for 20% of the cap before hitting penalties. The problem with that is if the salary cap goes down (unlikely I know) the QB gets paid less. I'd be more in favor of shortening the contract of draft picks to three years regardless of round. I'd also get rid of the 5th year (in my scenario 4th year) option. Make the teams use a franchise tag on the QB if they want to keep them past those three years. It shortens the "rookie window period" when you hit on an elite QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Joe Namath in pantyhose. That is all I can offer here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Tie contract to % of cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 6 hours ago, transient said: Take him out like have him whacked? I mean, I'm all for it, but it seems a bit extreme. On the serious side, Brady was not setting the market for QB contracts for a significant portion of that run in NE***. It's highly likely, IMO, that he had something worked out with Kraft to offset it (which I'm sure was within the letter and the spirit of the rules of player compensation ). It also didn't hurt that his sugar momma make significantly more than he did. Funny that model did not work for Russel Wilson either because he and Seahawks were not willing to do it or other circumstances (He started a rookie, he and franchise were not punished for cheating, he started every game, he is a slash QB not a game manager, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Well, wouldn’t that be nice for us? But you will never see that happen to pay a franchise QB create parity between the bad teams, and the good teams Bad teams are loaded with salary cap. Space are always load mediocre but payout, huge money to veterans free agents. Good teams are usually tight against the cap have their QB in place and draft well And yes, this means that Brandon bean does draft well not every pic is a superstar, but they end up having to wait their turn because there’s an established vet in front of them on the roster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Thanks for full disclosure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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