Im convinced its coaching (Chiefs showing how to handle Bengals)

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

14 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

We are doomed with the McDermott/Frazier defensive philosophy

 

 

[newcam2012]

14 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Dont want to get a ban for comparing our team to the teams playing in the GDT so I am putting it here.  Im totally convinced its coaching.  KC its killing that Oline.  Their players arent better than ours.  Jones is a beast but really nobodies outside of that.  The difference is how they actually play the receivers tight and not 10 yards off and back up at the snap.  Burrow cant throw quick because it aint there for free.

 

Same story on offense. Allen may not be Mahomes but he is elite.  Their offensive design and coaching is second to none.  I feel like Dorsey is just backyard football.  A lot of people say "Josh wont take the underneath stuff."  I believe he would if he was coached to and the plays were designed to.  

100% accurate here. The Chiefs D is far worse than Buffalo. It was totally scheme related. You nailed it on your analysis. You could see Burrow often couldn't get to his first read. Thus, the pressure was able to get to him. 

 

However, the Bills don't have anyone like Chris Jones. He is and was a game wrecker. A game changer which contributed to the Chiefs win.

Can't help but think how much the Miller injury hurt the Bills. 

 

The Dorsey comment is another one I agree with. The offense lacked an identity. It appeared to be predictable as teams often took Diggs away. The offense was mainly successful because of the talent of Allen not because of Dorsey and his play calling. Lastly, it seemed as though the Bills failed to use all of their offensive weapons. 

 

On defense, Fraizer had the worst game plan ever vs the Bengals. How did that happen? They had a rehearsal on Monday night and learned nothing! What were Fraizer and McD thinking? Yes coaching matters. That Sunday playoff game was a clear indication that the Bills coaches frankly got out coached.

 

Yet, the Bills are going to run it back again. Beane gave excuse after excuse in his presser. How does this instill confidence? 

Edited January 30, 2023 by newcam2012

[Jerome007]

14 hours ago, Success said:

It is.  I don't think we have BAD coaching - but it's not elite, or championship level. 

Exactly. Our coaches are good but not elite. Well they are in many aspects - leadership, focus, getting guys committed and being professional while not micromanaged, etc. - but not for scheming and play calling.

 

BTW I find ALL the 4 remaining teams were very well coached in that sense. I'd even put the Bengals as best coached. Bills are just too predictable on both sides of the ball. Josh IS elite, so is Diggs. The talent level is high enough for a Superbowl with just a few better plays, linemen, etc. It's not like they are second tier. But we can all see scheming is lacking to take full advantage.

 

On offense a tad more disguise, slants, screens, etc. and it's crazy elite. It's hair pulling as it seems so easy to improve, yet they don't do it.

 

On defense, it might be hard to go from "bend but don't break" to press coverage. The Bills scheme would work much better if the DLine put some pressure... I know Miller was there for the first half and at the start of the season, DLines have an edge over OLines at the start of the season, but damn did the Bills Dline wreak havoc the first few weeks. THAT was the aspct that made me think SUPERBOWL. I don't know how it went from that to getting pushed around by backups in the Bengals game.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Jerome007

[JerseyBills]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Didn't forget McD call a timeout prior to set up that wonderful D?

 

Remember he is a defensive genius.

Yup. Which makes it that much worse. That breakdown made me sick. Rushing 4 as well is just mind boggling as well.  I'll just never understand how they came up with that strategy 

[JerseyBills]

21 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Exactly. Our coaches are good but not elite. Well they are in many aspects - leadership, focus, getting guys committed and being professional while not micromanaged, etc. - but not for scheming and play calling.

 

BTW I find ALL the 4 remaining teams were very well coached in that sense. I'd even put the Bengals as best coached. Bills are just too predictable on both sides of the ball. Josh IS elite, so is Diggs. The talent level is high enough for a Superbowl with just a few better plays, linemen, etc. It's not like they are second tier. But we can all see scheming is lacking to take full advantage.

 

On offense a tad more disguise, slants, screens, etc. and it's crazy elite. It's hair pulling as it seems so easy to improve, yet they don't do it.

 

On defense, it might be hard to go from "bend but don't break" to press coverage. The Bills scheme would work much better if the DLine put some pressure... I know Miller was there for the first half and at the start of the season, DLines have an edge over OLines at the start of the season, but damn did the Bills Dline wreak havoc the first few weeks. THAT was the aspct that made me think SUPERBOWL. I don't know how it went from that to getting pushed around by backups in the Bengals game.

Miller had a tremendous impact on the whole dl. Even the whole defense.  Everyone looked much better on the line before his injury. The way he bends that corner is incredible and it takes pressure off everyone in the front 7 because how much attention he demands . If he gets back to form I think that solves the problem alone. 

 

Didn't Beane say he expects Von to be ready for week 1? That'd be a massive boost

Edited January 30, 2023 by JerseyBills

[Sestak4ever]

Frazier sets up his defense like Josh and our offense is going to score every time we have the ball. When the opposing defense stops our offense he doesn’t, or can’t, make the defensive adjustments, such as press coverage to counter the opposition’s quick throws and short game. Frazier plays it as though the opposition will always be playing catch up.

[Barnaby Wilde]

Plain as day.  KC coaches had a plans, schemes, all sorts of things our kindergarten coach and his defensive coordinators could never even imagine.  The more the season comes to a conclusion, McDermott and his staff should follow.

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, Reverse Meathead said:

Plain as day.  KC coaches had a plans, schemes, all sorts of things our kindergarten coach and his defensive coordinators could never even imagine.  The more the season comes to a conclusion, McDermott and his staff should follow.

The scheme was better, yes.  The Bills also don’t have Chris Jones or as good as a DL as Kansas City does.  

 

This was the difference in the game IMO

[papazoid]

while there is plenty of truth to kc coaches be better than buffalo's

 

the real difference in this game was the superiority of KC's O-line

[Fleezoid]

I was thinking that same thing watching the game. KC's DBs were playing up on the line on a lot of plays. They were getting pressure on Burrow most of the game and some of those pressures/sacks were on blitzes. With tight coverage, you can blitz Burrow.

[eball]

I'm not going to get into a whole "thing" about this but KC gave up 20 to Cinci and got a couple of interceptions...we gave up 27 with no turnovers.  The problem for the Bills was not scoring.

[Wayne Cubed]

I have more of a problem with the Bills offense only putting up 10 points than I have with the Bills defense and it's scheme against Cincy.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Wayne Cubed

[LEBills]

McDermott and Frazier are too scared of letting up the big play. It was painfully obvious in their two playoffs against KC and last week against the Bengals. 
 

We have Josh freaking Allen so it is ok to be more aggressive because we usually can score with the best of them. Get Josh an OLine and reduce the cushion and hold on routes more in the playoffs. 

[Boatdrinks]

10 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

The scheme was better, yes.  The Bills also don’t have Chris Jones or as good as a DL as Kansas City does.  

 

This was the difference in the game IMO

Jones had a very good game, but the Bengals still had the ball inside 2 minutes with a great chance to win. They inexplicably threw a deep pass on 3rd and 3 in an area of the field where going for it on 4th down wasn’t an option. 

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, eball said:

I'm not going to get into a whole "thing" about this but KC gave up 20 to Cinci and got a couple of interceptions...we gave up 27 with no turnovers.  The problem for the Bills was not scoring.

 

Game was over midway through the 3rd Q.  Bengals could have scored alot more. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

10 minutes ago, eball said:

I'm not going to get into a whole "thing" about this but KC gave up 20 to Cinci and got a couple of interceptions...we gave up 27 with no turnovers.  The problem for the Bills was not scoring.

It was a bad game across the board. I don’t know how anyone can pinpoint it.

 

 I can put blame on McDermott for not having them ready to play. It’s not something I’m used to seeing from McDermott teams.

[newcam2012]

34 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Miller had a tremendous impact on the whole dl. Even the whole defense.  Everyone looked much better on the line before his injury. The way he bends that corner is incredible and it takes pressure off everyone in the front 7 because how much attention he demands . If he gets back to form I think that solves the problem alone. 

 

Didn't Beane say he expects Von to be ready for week 1? That'd be a massive boost

And what's the chances he plays and doesn't get hurt? 

[eball]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Game was over midway through the 3rd Q.  Bengals could have scored alot more. 

 

17-10 with a minute to go in the 3rd.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

In that situation,  I hated the flag. I think intent is important and it wasn't malicious,  he was just flying to Mahomes. Technically it was a penalty but I do find it absurd that a referee handed them 15 yards after 59+ min of play and a SB on the line. I'd be heated if that happened to us. 

Never seen this breakdown.  Beyond infuriating and completely inexcusable.  Unreal 

 

Cincy should be used to idiotic personal fouls on defense moving teams into FG range to kick season ending FG's in the playoffs.  Ossai was just channeling his inner Vontaze Burfict and Pacman Jones. It's just what they do.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Big Turk

[stlbills13]

The Bills defensive gameplan was terrible against Cincy and the Bengals could have put up a lot more than 27 points if they didn't take their foot off the gas but the Bills' offensive performance was equally as bad in that game including terrible offensive line play, bad playcalling, bad decisions by Josh, and a general lack of high-end offensive talent. So I agree KC was prepared better and had better coaching but they also had better players who played better too

[NoHuddleKelly12]

16 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

I was thinking that same thing watching the game. KC's DBs were playing up on the line on a lot of plays. They were getting pressure on Burrow most of the game and some of those pressures/sacks were on blitzes. With tight coverage, you can blitz Burrow.

This—just on the eye test alone, it seemed like Burrow rarely was able to get completions when his receivers were challenged up at the line and pressure brought, while those times the Chiefs sat back, it was the same story as the Bills D…

[SCBills]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

And what's the chances he plays and doesn't get hurt? 

 

What are the chances anyone plays and doesn't get hurt?

 

Von is a physical freak.  I have no reason to believe he won't be a force next year, whenever he gets back on the field.  

 

That being said.. Our Defense is definitely going to be reliant upon guys coming back to full ability post-injury recovery (White, Von, Hyde).  Not ideal, but it's the hand we're dealt. 

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, Reverse Meathead said:

Plain as day.  KC coaches had a plans, schemes, all sorts of things our kindergarten coach and his defensive coordinators could never even imagine.  The more the season comes to a conclusion, McDermott and his staff should follow.

I agree especially that the Bills had a free Monday night rehearsal to prepare themselves. They learned nothing and got taken to the woodshed. How anyone has confidence in this coaching staff is perplexing.

 

I can accept the Bills losing to a better Bengals team.  However, this coaching staff handed the Bengals the win. They made no adjustments and their game plan was terrible. What were they thinking? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

19 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

I was thinking that same thing watching the game. KC's DBs were playing up on the line on a lot of plays. They were getting pressure on Burrow most of the game and some of those pressures/sacks were on blitzes. With tight coverage, you can blitz Burrow.

Watch Vikings game back. All the press you can eat. DBs got toasted. Browns game, toasted. Plenty of film on our DBs getting toasted in press man. Even with pass rush.

 

[Logic]

So you typed out that whole thread title...

but when it came to the word "for", those two extra keystrokes were too much, eh?
 

[newcam2012]

21 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

I was thinking that same thing watching the game. KC's DBs were playing up on the line on a lot of plays. They were getting pressure on Burrow most of the game and some of those pressures/sacks were on blitzes. With tight coverage, you can blitz Burrow.

Yep. 

[Bob in STL]

18 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

I was thinking that same thing watching the game. KC's DBs were playing up on the line on a lot of plays. They were getting pressure on Burrow most of the game and some of those pressures/sacks were on blitzes. With tight coverage, you can blitz Burrow.

The Bills DBs played way too far off of the line.  Burrow can hit an open receiver on the run in 2.6 seconds on average.  Why did we play them so loosely?   Are the Bills that worried about the deep passes?   

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, stlbills13 said:

The Bills defensive gameplan was terrible against Cincy and the Bengals could have put up a lot more than 27 points if they didn't take their foot off the gas but the Bills' offensive performance was equally as bad in that game including terrible offensive line play, bad playcalling, bad decisions by Josh, and a general lack of high-end offensive talent. So I agree KC was prepared better and had better coaching but they also had better players who played better too

Yes and no. The Chiefs have no legit WRs. Kelce us really their only elite offensive weapon. Their offensive is elite because of Mahomes, great oline, and offensive play calling and scheme. 

 

Look at the Bills now. Allen and Mahomes are basically a wash for arguments sake. Huge advantage to the Chiefs on the other 2 above mentioned. 

6 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

The Bills DBs played way too far off of the line.  Burrow can hit an open receiver on the run in 2.6 seconds on average.  Why did we play them so loosely?   Are the Bills that worried about the deep passes?   

Been trying to justify why Fraizer and McD thought this was a good game plan. It's basically giving the Bengals the game. Giving a kid candy and telling him or her not to eat it. Just pure ignorance on the Bills coaching staff. 

[Dr. Who]

9 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

What are the chances anyone plays and doesn't get hurt?

 

Von is a physical freak.  I have no reason to believe he won't be a force next year, whenever he gets back on the field.  

 

That being said.. Our Defense is definitely going to be reliant upon guys coming back to full ability post-injury recovery (White, Von, Hyde).  Not ideal, but it's the hand we're dealt. 

It's a ridiculous standard in a sport where multiple and accruing injuries is the norm. A D that requires near perfect conditions to thrive is analogously close to the talented player that is rarely available because he is frequently hurt.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Dr. Who

[Fleezoid]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Watch Vikings game back. All the press you can eat. DBs got toasted. Browns game, toasted. Plenty of film on our DBs getting toasted in press man. Even with pass rush.

 

 

So, we'll need a complete overhaul in the defensive backfield, or a new defensive coordinator. because one of those 2 are broken.

 

 

 

[newcam2012]

14 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

What are the chances anyone plays and doesn't get hurt?

 

Von is a physical freak.  I have no reason to believe he won't be a force next year, whenever he gets back on the field.  

 

That being said.. Our Defense is definitely going to be reliant upon guys coming back to full ability post-injury recovery (White, Von, Hyde).  Not ideal, but it's the hand we're dealt. 

Correction. It's the hand Beane created. A hand that is likely not a winner. Beane tried his best bluff in his presser. 

[The Frankish Reich]

17 minutes ago, Logic said:

So you typed out that whole thread title...

but when it came to the word "for", those two extra keystrokes were too much, eh?
 

I noticed that too. I see we have have a mix now of those ultra short nondescriptive topics (“Dorsey and Allen” or something like that), and those now popular cryptic two-sentence topics (“The Bills Are Well-Coached. But That’s Part of the Problem”). 
I think we may need a Post-Titling training session: “How to Title a Post. Hint: It’s Not Like This.”

[DieHardBillsFan]

They are wanting a Chris Jones... We need a dominant big. Oliver is not enough to be that guy. We also need to have smart blitzing packages and to mix up our defense. Cannot always run 2 lbs.

[msw2112]

14 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Imagine if D.Jones, Miller & Hyde played last Sunday:  McDermott & Frazier look like geniuses.  Instead, KC, with their D intact handles Cincy in the 1st half (just like last year) and it's all coaching.  Come On Man!

 

 

 

 

There's no question that the Bills would be better with those injured players in the lineup.  And if Jordan Phillips wasn't playing with a bad shoulder.  That said, the Bengals played down 3 offensive linemen and still found a way to dominate the Bills.  For that matter, Miami was on its third-string QB, a late-round rookie, and hung with the Bills in January in Buffalo.  And, turning to yesterday, KC's defense was not intact.  They had multiple injuries on defense and most of their defensive backfield consisted of backups and rookies.  The bottom line is that other teams make more adjustments to their game plans, and in-game, whether it's based on injuries, targeting an opponent's weaknesses, etc.  The Bills are well behind other teams in making those kinds of adjustments.

[Airseven]

33 minutes ago, Reverse Meathead said:

Plain as day.  KC coaches had a plans, schemes, all sorts of things our kindergarten coach and his defensive coordinators could never even imagine.  The more the season comes to a conclusion, McDermott and his staff should follow.

 

Issues with the defensive scheme have been analyzed to death. But it's a personnel issue too. Chiefs are utilizing one of the best overall draft classes in years. They have talent, depth, and youth everywhere. Quite simply - the Bills are not hitting on draft picks during a period when the cap noose is tightening. I'm not sure they have the personnel to pressure Burrow even if they wanted to.

[KOKBILLS]

9 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Correction. It's the hand Beane created. A hand that is likely not a winner. Beane tried his best bluff in his presser. 

 

I felt the same way listening to that presser...How much better would the Bills be if they only got a solid double from some of their premium picks? They're rostering a 1st round pick in Oliver that is not performing like a top 10 pick. A 1st Round pick in Elam who, for whatever reason, can't beat out Dane Jackson. Two second round picks in Epenesa and Basham who are just guys. A 3rd round starting RT who has struggled...And then Bernard who is basically a special teamer...

[Bob Jones]

OP is spot on, but the absolute bottom line is that if the Pegulas don't feel like most of the people in here, then nothing will change, and we'll be seeing the same annual results until they do feel like us.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

The Chiefs were out there with rookie corners on the Bengals, and they made plays because the Chiefs at least tried TRUE double coverage. 

 

The Bills played in their weak prevent-shell, and still lost track of Chase on the first touchdown, and Milano got stuck on Chase on the overturned touchdown. 

 

Our scheme was PATHETIC. 

[Bruffalo]

Not to pile on, but look at Jerry Hughes as another example that makes me suspect of the coaching.  He goes off to the Texans and starts producing immediately, not just pressures.

 

Fraizer needs to go, we have two overly conservative coaches running the defense.  We need a perspective shift to complement McD. 

[ProcessTruster]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Miller had a tremendous impact on the whole dl. Even the whole defense.  Everyone looked much better on the line before his injury. The way he bends that corner is incredible and it takes pressure off everyone in the front 7 because how much attention he demands . If he gets back to form I think that solves the problem alone. 

 

Didn't Beane say he expects Von to be ready for week 1? That'd be a massive boost

Not having Jones or Miller vs Bengals (or any other top 10 team) was the kiss of death.  Basically took the D line straight back to 2021.   Too light and too slow.   Beane fixed the problem, but the guys couldn't stay on the field. 

 

Just draft well and play it back next year.   I'd like to see how the Bills actually do with the lack of injuries KC and Philly enjoyed this past season.