Buscaglia: Both Bills Coordinators are likely to be back in 2023

[Chicken Boo]

Next year should be fun.

[newcam2012]

47 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Content with good.  About sums up things. Considering how bad this organization was the previous 20 years, it’s understandable.  Maybe we’ll get lucky and the Chiefs, Bengals, 49ers, and Eagles get knocked off or have injury problems next year, but we ain’t beating any of those teams in the playoffs next year if we’re running it back.  They have better rosters and better coaching.  

I agree 100%. Almost feels like the organization has thrown in the towel sort of speak. Very unlikely this team sniffs the Super Bowl. Do you really think the team won't have significant injuries next year? That's just not realistic. I'm saddened and frustrated that this Bills organization thinks this group of coaches with its players can compete for a Super Bowl. I'm not buying it one bit but I know so many on here will. 

[947]

If Frazier is back, neither he nor McD will do a single damn thing differently. They'll talk about how they were missing key players, and how that affected what the D could do, and it'll be better this year, blah blah blah. Then we'll start getting the brakes beat off of us more frequently with the book now out on how to not just beat, but embarrass us. Not to mention the murderers row of a schedule we have.

 

Our defensive system is a joke to other teams. Bills fans deserve better.

[BuffaloRebound]

Cincy was basically laughing at our defense.  Calling timeouts on your own 20 after a 4 yard play with 30 seconds left in the half when you’re up 10… Ultimate disrespect.  Not deferring in the Hamlin game.  

13 seconds the year before.  Running it back on the defensive side means putting all your marbles on a 34 year old returning from an ACL injury.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, JohnNord said:

To be fair though, he had the same starting 5 last season and they seemed to regress.  Not sure if that’s on him but our like played worse this season 

 

4 of the 5 the same, but agree with you overall.  I suppose the issue could be that Kromer's style didn't align with the players on the Bills strengths??

[LABILLBACKER]

24 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree 100%. Almost feels like the organization has thrown in the towel sort of speak. Very unlikely this team sniffs the Super Bowl. Do you really think the team won't have significant injuries next year? That's just not realistic. I'm saddened and frustrated that this Bills organization thinks this group of coaches with its players can compete for a Super Bowl. I'm not buying it one bit but I know so many on here will. 

Don't despair....at least McSchott will have enough regular season wins to keep everyone happy.

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

As of right now, it feels like the only thing that could put some fire under the collective bottom of this organisation, leading to significant changes in the coaching tree or the approach to roster building, would be something of the magnitude of Josh demanding a trade. It won't come from anyone else, neither McBeane nor the Pegulas. It certainly appears they'll stubbornly ran it back over and over, most likely for a couple more playoff humiliations, until Josh, if he is smart, may indeed demand to be traded.

[Billz4ever]

3 hours ago, JohnNord said:

https://theathletic.com/4128667/2023/01/26/buffalo-bills-offseason-coaches/?source=user_shared_article
 

I know a lot here don’t have a subscription to the Athletic so here’s how Joe Buscaglia analyzed the coaches.

While fans have wanted some changes after the bitter playoff exit, positional coaches aren’t likely what many had in mind. However, as of now, it appears both of the primary coordinators are poised to return in 2023.

 

Ken Dorsey:

The Bills offense has looked disjointed this season despite scoring points.  Dorsey will likely be back as he has support from Josh and Beane.  Also Beane talked about “year two” in his press conference which he otherwise would not do if there were plans to move on.  Looks like Dorsey is safe but if he’s back in 23, there is a ton of pressure to produce.    

Leslie Frazier:

Mentions there is heat on Frazier after the playoff loss, but that he was missing a key starter in Jones.  With injuries to Hyde, Miller and White, the Bills defense still finished 4th in DVOA.  
 

He also puts players in positions to be successful.  Unless he wants to retire, Frazier will be back for a 7th season.  
 

Joe Brady:

The Bills really like Brady but he’s been getting some OC calls which he may pursue.  If Brady comes back, he’s a prime candidate to take over for Dorsey.  
 

Aaron Kromer:

The Bills OL had a terrible year and it wouldn’t surprise Joe to see the Bills move on from Kromer. 
 

Bobby Babitch:

A future star in the building with DC potential.  If Frazier leaves he can see him taking over.  
 

Joe didn’t touch on any other coaches…

 

 

 

Z.E.R.O. accountability. N.O.N.E.

[Gunsgoodtime]

At least we could have some cool post with a name like Babitch.  Immediate whipping boy.

[NoSaint]

I think we would be fine with either coordinator coming back. 
 

I don’t think either unit is elite but both were above average/good for the most part. I think either could be improved upon still. Most importantly I think after a good bit of time building a foundation and finding a plateau that we are in a spot that an outside voice could be very helpful. I’m not saying bring a radical scheme change but instead of promoting within go find fresh eyes that fit our existing talent. 
 

I also think some players are wanting to see at least a little shake up off the field.

Edited January 27, 2023 by NoSaint

[cba fan]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The chances of Leslie retiring or getting a HC job is basically 1%.

sooooooo you're saying we have a chance..........??   lol

[jlgarsh]

4 hours ago, JohnNord said:

To be fair though, he had the same starting 5 last season and they seemed to regress.  Not sure if that’s on him but our like played worse this season 

Bates was good at LG & C but when we signed Saffold he moved to RG. I think that may have thrown Dawkins & Morse off maybe? Just thinking out loud though

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

As of right now, it feels like the only thing that could put some fire under the collective bottom of this organisation, leading to significant changes in the coaching tree or the approach to roster building, would be something of the magnitude of Josh demanding a trade. It won't come from anyone else, neither McBeane nor the Pegulas. It certainly appears they'll stubbornly ran it back over and over, most likely for a couple more playoff humiliations, until Josh, if he is smart, may indeed demand to be traded.

I think what's more realistic is Diggs could be a problem if the teams is losing. He the ultimate competitor. He has a temper and wears his feelings on his sleeve. I can see him calling out players and coaches. McD calmed him down once but I'm not sure he gets another chance. It's something to watch in the future. The coaches could very well hear grumbling if things go south. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

I think we would be fine with either coordinator coming back. 
 

I don’t think either unit is elite but both were above average/good for the most part. I think either could be improved upon still. Most importantly I think after a good bit of time building a foundation and finding a plateau that we are in a spot that an outside voice could be very helpful. I’m not saying bring a radical scheme change but instead of promoting within go find fresh eyes that fit our existing talent. 
 

I also think some players are wanting to see at least a little shake up off the field.

What is this coaching regime going to do differently? How are they going to improve? You know what you are getting in Fraizer. Nice stats for the regular season. A false sense that the defense is good due to the stats. Come playoff time his defense will fold like a cheap suit.

 

Dorsey doesn't inspire me as being the answer. He was so predictable, uncreative, and outclassed. Another year of on the job training. 

 

Coach McD is a high character guy. Hard not to like him as a person. He has built a close knit team that plays hard for him. However, in recent years Coach McD has been out coached and out classed. His game plans have been suspect and his in game adjustments are near non existent. 

 

Add it all up and this coaching regime will fall short next year too. The Bills organization needs new blood, positive scheme changes on defense and offense. Most importantly better players. Beane gave us nothing but excuses and false hopes. The same goes for what Fraizer and Dorsey offer. The Bills are on the decline. Miami might be better than the Bills, the Jets with a viable QB might be too. The Jags, Chargers, Balt, Pitt, etc will be formidable as well. 

 

My expectations of this team are fairly low. I'd say one and done in the playoffs to possibly not making them at all. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by newcam2012

[SCBills]

Fine … 

 

If we have a 4th straight year where the Defense is a liability in the Playoffs, McDermott should be fired.  
 

He wants to hitch his wagon to Frazier, so be it … if they fail, he goes down with the ship. 

[Joe Ferguson]

Like I said numerous times. Only way to get the trophy is for Josh Allen to beat the Chiefs, Bengals, referees,  McDermott and Frazier.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Awesome same garbage defensive philosophy, Tampa Turd

 

[John from Riverside]

Exactly what I expected. I think that Babich is the next in line to be the DC.

4 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

Bates was good at LG & C but when we signed Saffold he moved to RG. I think that may have thrown Dawkins & Morse off maybe? Just thinking out loud though

dawkins is fine where is
Bates should go to left guard

Morse it’s probably a year away from retirement and we should draft our future center who should be able to back up at guard

Saffold absolutely needs to be replaced

We need to bring in competition for Spencer Brown Spencer absolutely should not be safe and right tackle until he earns it

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Both coordinators back is bold

 

Dorsey fine it was his first season

 

Frazier this has been an issue every season

 

Bit of a hot take but never thought the day McDermott loses the locker room would be a legit possibility but next season can snow ball quickly.

 

Also thought I was done seeing mind numbing play calls an average fan would never call (3rd and short, let's throw a 30 yard fade or on defense 3rd and 10 let's use a time out then line up and give 15 yards of cushion)

[Donuts and Doritos]

Kind of like Peterman, "got to watch the tape", the blind loyalty over demanding results is an Achilles heal of McD & Beane. Maybe that's why it's Soo hard for rookies to crack the starting lineup over struggling vets & underperforming coordinators are safe.

[BobbyC81]

9 hours ago, ClemsonBills said:

Depending how the season starts. I wonder if they would make changes in season. Brady taking over play calls for Dorsey or even Babitch changing things up. 

I wondered if their attempts to “help” Dorsey, actually made it worse.  Brady, an experienced play caller, was brought in as QB coach, so you had a rookie OC over a veteran.  Then, they brought in Mike Shula as a consultant.  Could there then have been too man6 opinions and voices for Josh?

[H2o]

3 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

I wondered if their attempts to “help” Dorsey, actually made it worse.  Brady, an experienced play caller, was brought in as QB coach, so you had a rookie OC over a veteran.  Then, they brought in Mike Shula as a consultant.  Could there then have been too man6 opinions and voices for Josh?

I blame the Wookiee beside Dorsey in the booth every game. It's all his fault. 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by H2o

[CircleTheWagons99]

Well then, they just saved me a year of watching football. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

10 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Running it back🤦

U sure it’s adding anything small underwhelming running back, lol.. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

10 hours ago, JohnNord said:

https://theathletic.com/4128667/2023/01/26/buffalo-bills-offseason-coaches/?source=user_shared_article
 

I know a lot here don’t have a subscription to the Athletic so here’s how Joe Buscaglia analyzed the coaches.

While fans have wanted some changes after the bitter playoff exit, positional coaches aren’t likely what many had in mind. However, as of now, it appears both of the primary coordinators are poised to return in 2023.

 

Ken Dorsey:

The Bills offense has looked disjointed this season despite scoring points.  Dorsey will likely be back as he has support from Josh and Beane.  Also Beane talked about “year two” in his press conference which he otherwise would not do if there were plans to move on.  Looks like Dorsey is safe but if he’s back in 23, there is a ton of pressure to produce.    

Leslie Frazier:

Mentions there is heat on Frazier after the playoff loss, but that he was missing a key starter in Jones.  With injuries to Hyde, Miller and White, the Bills defense still finished 4th in DVOA.  
 

He also puts players in positions to be successful.  Unless he wants to retire, Frazier will be back for a 7th season.  
 

Joe Brady:

The Bills really like Brady but he’s been getting some OC calls which he may pursue.  If Brady comes back, he’s a prime candidate to take over for Dorsey.  
 

Aaron Kromer:

The Bills OL had a terrible year and it wouldn’t surprise Joe to see the Bills move on from Kromer. 
 

Bobby Babitch:

A future star in the building with DC potential.  If Frazier leaves he can see him taking over.  
 

Joe didn’t touch on any other coaches…

 

 

 

Sounds like McD has at least 2 seasons left as head coach after next season we will fire Frazier and Dorsey and Babitch and Brady will take over . Once we lose again in the 2024 playoffs The Pegulas will realize Mcd is not the answer and he will be fired. 

[Pete]

10 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Not a surprise.

 

Kromer is one of the best o line coaches out there.  Get the guy some players.

Kromer is expected to make gourmet food out of junk food on OLine-  But Frazier can have most high draft picks and FA money going to D- and his D can't stop a competent offense when it counts.  What the mother*****ing *****?

Frazier must go is the very least move we should do

[DrPJax]

      So let’s examine the logic here.  So Mcd keeps saying injuries are no excuse for performance and an early exit with the d giving up 30 first downs and having embarrassing plays like the 3 rd and 4 yards ( this screw up is analogous to the formation use in the plays of the last 13 seconds) , and getting bounced early is ok to keep Frazier ?   Yet , they want to then say , well there were so many injuries that It’s  not fair to blame Frazier or move  on ?  So which is it ; if Mcd won’t use the injuries as an excuse for poor performance, then what logic flips that, and then makes the injuries a valid excuse for not releasing  Frazier ?  The injuries either do matter enough to effect performance in Frazier’s case , or they don’t matter as an excuse for the d getting abused and an early exit ; you can’t have it both ways.  If they are  no excuse regarding record etc , said repeatedly by Mcd , then they can’t be a reason used to give Frazier a pass for the poor record of this d come playoff time.  Frazier either is accountable or not but if logic is consistent, injuries can’t be used as an excuse to give him another chance.  
 

      The dvoa stuff looks like some interes data , but games aren’t won on. an individual basis because of dvoa metrics , or we would still be playing until we meet a team who ranked #1 in dvoa.  Plus these metrics continued to drop as the season went along and were worse without von. We were  close to the bottom of the league in sacks,  and the pressure rate dropped down into the high 20’s.  What matters is you couldn’t get to a 3 rd year fin qb , nor could you get to Burrows ( jones also had a great game for him in week 18.  You were down 14-0   In two efficient drives with one negative  yardage play against  Cincy and 0 Uncompleted  passes. It was impossible to overcome. The team under Mcd running his d is 4-5 in the playoffs and two good years with your franchise qb on his first contract were wasted, esp compared to Cincys results, so keep relying on dvoa regarding your staff make up and d philosophy , and unless research shows dvoa correlates with Lombardi trophy’s,  this staff is missing the big picture.
It’s analogous to the high rise in excess deaths in 30 countries across all age groups not being investigated , while ramping up rhetoric to maintain the status quo even tho the the two star , original players are no longer “ in play”. .  Losing vision of your true end goal  by keeping outdated schemes gets you sent home prematurely.   
 

         They can do whatever they want coordinator wise ,  but this d scheme drained copious resources both  in draft capital and free agent $.  I bet it drained many mafia pockets of $ , loyally supporting another painful , unnecessary playoff loss. It seems part of the process has stalled or failed actually in obtaining the goal of winning a SB. They got bumped out at the same level a Giants with him as a first time HC.  Cincys Hc has surpassed Mcd heads up , and the fins new Hc almost did the same and their d looks mote promising  next year as will the Jets, and O’Brien comes into the pats as their new OC.
     The Bills were forced to accept new blood  on the offensive side ; based on lack of playoff success it is very reasonable to see what a new infusion at the DC would bring. That soft zone with increasing complex checks come playoff  time is resulting in missed assignments, blown coverages , and signature losses.  For crap sake , you draft a cb with a round 1 grade , yet he was still sharing snaps with Dane Jackson.

        Why run it back with Frazier as other afc east teams are changing / progressing;  Kc/ Cincy already have better rosters, as like Chris sims said , Buffalos talent level was overestimated.    Good staffs don’t keep treading water or regressing; our 90’s teams kept moving forward after just two setbacks.   Even they changed coordinators. I think Mcd is going to wear thin doing this and with a new stadium needing revenue soon , he is going to find out business is larger than process. Wade found that out the hard way; hopefully the Bills don’t repeat that part of their amazing history. 

[Poleshifter]

Well, keeping Frazier will certainly take care of those pesky high expectations we have all had the last 2 years.

 

Winning a Super Bowl is not one of this regime's goals??? Holy crap. Bills fans no longer need to invest so much emotion in this team.

 

I have been a McDermott fan, but this lack of action puts that in great jeopardy.

 

I wonder what Stefon Diggs will think of this "no news".

 

[Big Blitz]

McD - coaches players; hires coordinators and coaches

 

Beane - brings in players; runs the draft

 

This isn’t 2016 anymore.  If there are no key injuries and this team takes steps back next year I’m 1000% fine with firing Beane and getting a GM to get a fresh look at everything especially as my QB will begin to enter his age 28 season in 2024.  

 

Which means the Coach will be fired.  
 

My problem is Beane.  And if you fire Beane you’re looking at a new coach.  
 

This is a tough business they tell the players who’s jobs are never safe all the time. 
 

You get 10 years if you win a Super Bowl.  
 

We’ve been to 1 AFC Championship game 2 seasons ago now.  
 

Players will tune out eventually.  And we haven’t developed enough of them the last 4 years - our roster is still being driven by Allen, Hyde, Poyer, Milano, Edmonds, Dawkins, Morse, White, and Diggs.  All the guys mentioned came in before the 2020 season.  There isn’t one other player that you’d say “we need that guy or we’re in trouble.”  
 

But if one of those guys is out, it’s chaos.  That speaks poorly to the GM and the coaches.  
 

Our roster is inferior to the Eagles, Bengals, Dolphins, Browns, Chargers, 49ers, and maybe even the Ravens.  But we have Josh so it’s cool.  

 

 

But all that said.  I think this team can still be better next year but it absolutely has to 

 

1.  Improve the oline significantly 

 

2. Get another WR

 

3. Get a Safety 

 

4. Resign Edmonds 

 

5. Get an NFL Running back.  

 

[Sargent Hulka]

Say what you want, but Ralph Wilson would not have tolerated this. Frazier would already be gone, and if McDermott refused, he'd be gone too.

[Billzgobowlin]

12 hours ago, JohnNord said:

To be fair though, he had the same starting 5 last season and they seemed to regress.  Not sure if that’s on him but our like played worse this season 

I think in ways it played better.  The RBs were more of the offense this year but pass blocking was worse.  Could be he needs more of his type of players.

23 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

McD - coaches players; hires coordinators and coaches

 

Beane - brings in players; runs the draft

 

This isn’t 2016 anymore.  If there are no key injuries and this team takes steps back next year I’m 1000% fine with firing Beane and getting a GM to get a fresh look at everything especially as my QB will begin to enter his age 28 season in 2024.  

 

Which means the Coach will be fired.  
 

My problem is Beane.  And if you fire Beane you’re looking at a new coach.  
 

This is a tough business they tell the players who’s jobs are never safe all the time. 
 

You get 10 years if you win a Super Bowl.  
 

We’ve been to 1 AFC Championship game 2 seasons ago now.  
 

Players will tune out eventually.  And we haven’t developed enough of them the last 4 years - our roster is still being driven by Allen, Hyde, Poyer, Milano, Edmonds, Dawkins, Morse, White, and Diggs.  All the guys mentioned came in before the 2020 season.  There isn’t one other player that you’d say “we need that guy or we’re in trouble.”  
 

But if one of those guys is out, it’s chaos.  That speaks poorly to the GM and the coaches.  
 

Our roster is inferior to the Eagles, Bengals, Dolphins, Browns, Chargers, 49ers, and maybe even the Ravens.  But we have Josh so it’s cool.  

 

 

But all that said.  I think this team can still be better next year but it absolutely has to 

 

1.  Improve the oline significantly 

 

2. Get another WR

 

3. Get a Safety 

 

4. Resign Edmonds 

 

5. Get an NFL Running back.  

 

Do we really need another WR?  I don't think ability is the issue.   Also I don't see Edmunds as irreplaceable.  He was better this year but he has had major lapses in the past.

[Big Blitz]

8 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I think in ways it played better.  The RBs were more of the offense this year but pass blocking was worse.  Could be he needs more of his type of players.

Do we really need another WR?  I don't think ability is the issue.   Also I don't see Edmunds as irreplaceable.  He was better this year but he has had major lapses in the past.

 

Yes - each team remaining has multiple weapons everywhere - the Chiefs added Toney but they will also be adding Nuke soon after this season ends.  

[SoCal Deek]

It’s really this simple….the years may all run together but the Bills have now lost FIVE times in the last six years in the AFC playoffs. While that’s nice, and way more entertaining than the drought years, something significant has to change! I’m pretty sure it won’t. 

[colin]

for the second time i'm thinking of baltimore.  i figured they were closer to a chip at the end of the season then we where, given they hung w cinci and had their own 13 seconds type loss.  but that was with a pure scrub playing qb and their one time NFL MVP hurt.  imagine what we look like w allen out?  

 

so anyhow, baltimore ditched their dc last year because they weren't happy.  this year they ditched their OC.  both of those guys have had equal or greater success than our coordinators, but they still fired the OC after a tough loss on the road to a great team with their best player and qb out.  

 

you can frame this as harby looking for scape goats, or you can frame this as baltimore won't accept anything less than getting further towards a championship, but what you cannot deny is that as an organization they are not sitting still and they've won two chips over a period where we are yet to win a road playoff game.

[klos63]

13 hours ago, JohnNord said:

To be fair though, he had the same starting 5 last season and they seemed to regress.  Not sure if that’s on him but our like played worse this season 

Not Saffold. Is Kromer coaching the type of players he needs to succeed? Doubtful. He didn't get bad overnight.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, Sargent Hulka said:

Say what you want, but Ralph Wilson would not have tolerated this. Frazier would already be gone, and if McDermott refused, he'd be gone too.

 

Frazier would have never been here because he would not spend on quality assistants and coordinators. Zero shot. It would George Edwards or bust. 

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree but Kromer's oline didn't look very good throughout most of the season. For some guy who is supposed to be the best oline coach around it was a disappointing performance. 

 

Not every player will turn from chicken ***** to chicken salad.  Also easier on a defense that knows what we are running all the time.  I would say our run game looked better this year.  That has to do with line play as well.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Scott7975

[Billz4ever]

13 minutes ago, Bandito said:

The Bills scored 10 pts against the Bengals. 

And our defense couldn't stop anything. The final score wasn't indicative of how bad we got our butts whipped.

 

Cincy hangs 40 on us easy if they don't let off the gas.  They knew we couldn't score, so they had no reason to push hard in the second half once they went up 27-10.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Billz4ever

[The Firebaugh Kid]

12 hours ago, Negan said:

Ugh, I'm seeing a similar result next year with Frazier calling this defense in the playoffs.  

Its one of those “safe” schemes that only works when you’re healthy and everyone does their job. For whatever reason it seems to work in the regular season but completely fall apart in the playoffs. 

[Billz4ever]

13 hours ago, JohnNord said:

https://theathletic.com/4128667/2023/01/26/buffalo-bills-offseason-coaches/?source=user_shared_article
 

I know a lot here don’t have a subscription to the Athletic so here’s how Joe Buscaglia analyzed the coaches.

While fans have wanted some changes after the bitter playoff exit, positional coaches aren’t likely what many had in mind. However, as of now, it appears both of the primary coordinators are poised to return in 2023.

 

Ken Dorsey:

The Bills offense has looked disjointed this season despite scoring points.  Dorsey will likely be back as he has support from Josh and Beane.  Also Beane talked about “year two” in his press conference which he otherwise would not do if there were plans to move on.  Looks like Dorsey is safe but if he’s back in 23, there is a ton of pressure to produce.    

Leslie Frazier:

Mentions there is heat on Frazier after the playoff loss, but that he was missing a key starter in Jones.  With injuries to Hyde, Miller and White, the Bills defense still finished 4th in DVOA.  
 

He also puts players in positions to be successful.  Unless he wants to retire, Frazier will be back for a 7th season.  
 

Joe Brady:

The Bills really like Brady but he’s been getting some OC calls which he may pursue.  If Brady comes back, he’s a prime candidate to take over for Dorsey.  
 

Aaron Kromer:

The Bills OL had a terrible year and it wouldn’t surprise Joe to see the Bills move on from Kromer. 
 

Bobby Babitch:

A future star in the building with DC potential.  If Frazier leaves he can see him taking over.  
 

Joe didn’t touch on any other coaches…

 

 

 

Beane and McD right now...