Should we trade Ed Oliver?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

6 picks in this class are too many. It's crap. 

 

Every pick outside the first round is a crap shoot in every draft. Now I could buy the thinking that the top half of round 1 talent is weak or the round 1 talent is weak.  But rounds 2-7 who knows who pans out and doesn't. And that is pretty much every draft, every year. That's where your scouting department, strength training staff and coaching staff earn their money. 

[4merper4mer]

11 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Right

Rite

Write

 

Yeah. Americans know (no) English.

At least Americans can spell “color” without trying to make it look all regal by adding unnecessary letters.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Every pick outside the first round is a crap shoot in every draft. Now I could buy the thinking that the top half of round 1 talent is weak or the round 1 talent is weak.  But rounds 2-7 who knows who pans out and doesn't. And that is pretty much every draft, every year. That's where your scouting department, strength training staff and coaching staff earn their money. 

 

Yes, but even in terms of depth this is weak. It's just not a very good class. There are years that are worse than others. This idea that all drafts must be somewhat equal is not true. This one isn't good. There will be fewer all pros from it, fewer 3 year plus starters from it, fewer guys who make an impact. Of course there will be good players that come out of it. But when there are fewer they are harder to find. 

4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

At least Americans can spell “color” without trying to make it look all regal by adding unnecessary letters.

 

The letter is necessary to pronounce the word correctly, but you guys are less bothered with that element too!

[Warriorspikes51]

DaQuan Jones wants Simmons.  Oliver ++  in a trade for Henry and Simmons could work 
 

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

43 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

DaQuan Jones wants Simmons.  Oliver ++  in a trade for Henry and Simmons could work 
 

 

Would we have any draft picks left lol?

[Airseven]

You could trade just about anyone on this roster minus Allen and Milano. There aren't many cornerstones here due to age, injuries, salaries, disgruntlement (lol), and just plain lack of development. 

 

The problem is that opening more holes isn't wise especially when they won't be getting 1st round picks in return. 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Airseven said:

You could trade just about anyone on this roster minus Allen and Milano. There aren't many cornerstones here due to age, injuries, salaries, disgruntlement (lol), and just plain lack of development. 

 

The problem is that opening more holes isn't wise especially when they won't be getting 1st round picks in return. 

Our DL was bottom tier once Von went down with the ACL. 
 

There seems to me, to be zero reason to worry about creating holes on units that didn’t perform. 
 

Creating holes to bring in a RB, yea.. that’s not ideal.  However, creating a hole at DT, to shore up a hole on the OL or at WR, is just reallocation of assets.  
 

We’re going to have holes. I’d rather they be on Defense, where we can hope Von, Rousseau, Milano and (potentially) a much improved secondary can mask enough and make plays when needed. 
 

Not sure what it would take, but trading Oliver and paying more/trading an asset to get an elite player at DT is fine by me.   Simmons trade, Hargrave signing.

 

Invest heavy on Offense.  Invest in difference makers on Defense, and then depend on McDermott to be able to scheme for the weaknesses. 

[KOKBILLS]

59 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

DaQuan Jones wants Simmons.  Oliver ++  in a trade for Henry and Simmons could work 
 

 

 

Oh man...I'm not in favor of giving up any Draft picks normally...But Simmons is SO good...Trading him for Oliver would be huge! 

[CircleTheWagons99]

Yes, after the deleted IG post about showing him the money or he is walking, yeah, trade him now. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by CircleTheWagons99

[BullBuchanan]

I'd be shocked if any team gave up more than a 4th for him. I'd find it extremely unpalatable to give him a 3x raise from last year's salary based on his production.

[BuffaloRebound]

Can’t see Tennessee trading Simmons but they traded AJ Brown so you never know.  

[IndyMark]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The only extent to which Ed's size can even begin to be blamed for him never quite consistently playing to his top potential (though he has been better than almost the entirety of this board believes) is arm length. If he was a better finisher Ed would be about to get a top of the market DT contract. And it is legit to say sometimes QBs manage to escape where if his arms were an inch or two longer they'd be down. At the point of attack he had some issues as a rookie, but has more than held his own since despite being "undersized."

 

Respectfully stated, you are wrong.

 

Let me introduce you to the concept of Physics.

 

If Oliver had about 25 more pounds on him, the proper proportions of course, he would be significantly harder to move.  Plus, his arm length is not the flex you thought it would be because the possibility exists that Oliver can pack on 25 pounds of weight, there is no likelihood he gains 2 inches in arm length.

 

In sum, Oliver is "undersized" and under performs.

[Warriorspikes51]

1 hour ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Would we have any draft picks left lol?

Oliver, Cook, 2nd, 3rd (2024)  for Henry, Simmons seems fair 

[IndyMark]

Oliver is not even the best DT on this team. Too many excuses from some on this thread for his poor showing over course of last season.......i.e., he was injured, "taped up too much", blah, blah, blah.

 

Bottom line, if we can get a 5th or better for Oliver, Beane is in hero territory.

 

Oliver should be traded as the cap savings would be monumental to where we could spend on the OFF and we could plug almost anyone into his slot to equate to his 2022 play/production.

 

If extended, Beane should be terminated.  Why over invest in under performers, it makes no sense. He needs too many things to be perfect to perform.

 

We won without him and lost with him. 

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, IndyMark said:

 

Respectfully stated, you are wrong.

 

Let me introduce you to the concept of Physics.

 

If Oliver had about 25 more pounds on him, the proper proportions of course, he would be significantly harder to move.  Plus, his arm length is not the flex you thought it would be because the possibility exists that Oliver can pack on 25 pounds of weight, there is no likelihood he gains 2 inches in arm length.

 

In sum, Oliver is "undersized" and under performs.

 

Let me introduce you to the concept of football..... actually no. Would take to long. 

 

Disrespectfully, you are wrong.

[IndyMark]

54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Let me introduce you to the concept of football..... actually no. Would take to long. 

 

Disrespectfully, you are wrong.

 

First, it is "...it would take too long.".  Not "to" long.  You. Are. Welcome.

 

Second, really?  That is the best you can do? Sad.  I did (and likely still will) appreciate your efforts on draft prospects, but that does not translate to watching pro's in a system and on a team.  You should strive to do better.  I get it. You know you are wrong and this is how you respond.  Okay.

 

The fact remains you have no idea how to evaluate current NFL talent in the form of IDL. Anyone with any sense has to acknowledge the very pedestrian and easily replaced level of play from "big" Ed.

 

Respectfully so, of course.

[freester]

1 hour ago, IndyMark said:

Oliver is not even the best DT on this team. Too many excuses from some on this thread for his poor showing over course of last season.......i.e., he was injured, "taped up too much", blah, blah, blah.

 

Bottom line, if we can get a 5th or better for Oliver, Beane is in hero territory.

 

Oliver should be traded as the cap savings would be monumental to where we could spend on the OFF and we could plug almost anyone into his slot to equate to his 2022 play/production.

 

If extended, Beane should be terminated.  Why over invest in under performers, it makes no sense. He needs too many things to be perfect to perform.

 

We won without him and lost with him. 

I would want more than a 5th. For a hat it’s not worth it

[Buffalo Barbarian]

If we can, hes not special. 

 

 

[Magox]

Simmons will end up being a $20 - $23M a year player.   He'd put a tremendous strain on the cap, with that said he is absolutely elite.  Top 1%.

 

He's a game wrecker, will get lots of pressure, TFL's and run stuffing.

 

I'd consider trading Oliver and a 2nd rounder for Simmons.  I don't know if they'd take that, probably would have to be maybe 2 2nd's or 1st to go along with Oliver.

 

I don't know why they'd consider trading him, I get freeing up cap space but he's a foundational piece.

[TheBeaneBandit]

12 minutes ago, Magox said:

Simmons will end up being a $20 - $23M a year player.   He'd put a tremendous strain on the cap, with that said he is absolutely elite.  Top 1%.

 

He's a game wrecker, will get lots of pressure, TFL's and run stuffing.

 

I'd consider trading Oliver and a 2nd rounder for Simmons.  I don't know if they'd take that, probably would have to be maybe 2 2nd's or 1st to go along with Oliver.

 

I don't know why they'd consider trading him, I get freeing up cap space but he's a foundational piece.

I would absolutely do that no question. Figure out the contract extension afterward. Simmons would be a foundational piece for the defensive line for years a guy you can build around.

Edited March 10, 2023 by TheBeaneBandit

[RocCityRoller]

I would be fine if we did. I really liked the pick at the time. He flashes but is inconsistent and will want big money.

As much grief as I give Edmunds, Big Ed was drafted higher and disappears more.

 

He is cap friendly to a team that trades for him. His $10 million is all base salary. Easy to extend and restructure.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, IndyMark said:

 

First, it is "...it would take too long.".  Not "to" long.  You. Are. Welcome.

 

Second, really?  That is the best you can do? Sad.  I did (and likely still will) appreciate your efforts on draft prospects, but that does not translate to watching pro's in a system and on a team.  You should strive to do better.  I get it. You know you are wrong and this is how you respond.  Okay.

 

The fact remains you have no idea how to evaluate current NFL talent in the form of IDL. Anyone with any sense has to acknowledge the very pedestrian and easily replaced level of play from "big" Ed.

 

Respectfully so, of course.

 

No.

 

Though you did get me on the typo. Darn it. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by GunnerBill

[4merper4mer]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, but even in terms of depth this is weak. It's just not a very good class. There are years that are worse than others. This idea that all drafts must be somewhat equal is not true. This one isn't good. There will be fewer all pros from it, fewer 3 year plus starters from it, fewer guys who make an impact. Of course there will be good players that come out of it. But when there are fewer they are harder to find. 

 

The letter is necessary to pronounce the word correctly, but you guys are less bothered with that element too!

Shirley you jest.

 

I spell color without a u and pronounce it perfectly.

[ArtVandalay]

Dude is so average it hurts. Not worth the money. If he left you would never hear about him again. 

 

People need to lose the drought mindset, it's sad. You don't need to cling to every mediocre player.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Dude is so average it hurts. Not worth the money. If he left you would never hear about him again. 

 

People need to lose the drought mindset, it's sad. You don't need to cling to every mediocre player.

He’s a complete non-factor most games. 
 

He flashes once in awhile with a TFL.

 

Averaged 4-sacks for his career.

 

[Wagner]

Anyone her about trading him for WR Hopkins?

[Fan in Chicago]

5 minutes ago, Wagner said:

Anyone her about trading him for WR Hopkins?

Wow. I need to see verification. "Multiple picks" concerns me but let's see the details if this is indeed true

EDIT: I don't see this on Schefter's own Twitter account so it looks fake

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Fan in Chicago

[Wagner]

29 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Wow. I need to see verification. "Multiple picks" concerns me but let's see the details if this is indeed true

EDIT: I don't see this on Schefter's own Twitter account so it looks fake

 

Kinda figured it would be false. 😔

[Don Otreply]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:27 AM, 4merper4mer said:

At least Americans can spell “color” without trying to make it look all regal by adding unnecessary letters.

Same goes for “aluminum” the Brit’s add an extra vowel in their pronunciation to make it sound, well, more British, and historically the American pronunciation is correct, and comes directly from the British guy “back in the day” who was in on “aluminum” from the beginning…, it’s lovely to hear Brit’s say otherwise, and be wrong every time, 😁👍 

 

As for the slang/bastardization of the American English language, well it’s no worse than any of the any other versions of English spoken in other countries, lazy pronunciation begets different dialects over time in all languages, is what it is. 
 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited March 14, 2023 by Don Otreply

[T master]

I still feel this should be a priority for Beane & company to open up more cap space plus i think there are other players possibly in FA that they could get just as much production out of for less money & may even be able to get another player as good in the draft for a longer period of time for less cash .

 

I get wanting to sign & keep your own but Oliver is just slightly above average if not a average player yes he does make the occasional sack but he's not consistent enough for the money & given his draft status he should be a player that has to be accounted for & isn't as easily taken out of the game as he is. 

 

Unlike letting Edmunds get away with nothing but a thanks for what they did for him they could at least get something which if anyone paid attention to what the Pats have done for years they always seemed to get something for players like Oliver & Poyer before their contracts were up weather it be because of their age or the position of the very real possibility of not being able to keep them so they would get something at least in return .

[Hebert19]

I still think he goes in a draft day trade for an offensive weapon.  Oliver and X pick for Henry is what I'm thinking. 

[Success]

I'm pretty torn.  I can definitely see Oliver having an Edmunds-type "breakout" year in the coming season.

 

Part of me wishes we had traded Edmunds now - but that's only because we didn't make the SB.   But we COULD make a SB if Oliver steps up his game like that and has a great '23 season.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

I'm sure Ed will step up his "contract year" game just like Tremaine did.  If he does and Von comes back healthy maybe we sniff a SB.  But like Gabe, I'm still not extending him.  Not consistent enough.  Didn't show me that motor every week.

[Yantha]

Oliver could be a "draft day trade candidate".  

 

Just a hunch.

[ddaryl]

On 3/14/2023 at 5:27 AM, Wagner said:

Anyone her about trading him for WR Hopkins?

 

 

Look at who is doing the twitter posting.  

[nosejob]

So on that note, I did hear Beane touch on Ed's cap hit and believe he will work it a little somehow and Oliver stays. Look at who he's played next to ( no DT1 consistently) and who his D.C. was. He's going into a contract year and with some stability next to him,( hopefully Phillips ), we should be able to expect a better year.

 

Unless Beane can get a trade with the Bears or Texans and pick up some good, at the top of rounds picks, I'm fine with keeping him. Just look at some of those other contracts.

I'm not happy with Settle so to me there's already a hole.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-free-agency-tracker-latest-signings-trades-contract-info

 

 

 

[DJB]

Oh yay another Oliver thread 🥰🥰🥰

[1st&ten]

This has probably been mentioned before, but could Ed play DE or is he too big ?  He has quickness and he's listed at 287 lbs ---Basham is listed at 281 lbs.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

This has probably been mentioned before, but could Ed play DE or is he too big ?  He has quickness and he's listed at 287 lbs ---Basham is listed at 281 lbs.

 

He isn't long enough. Arm length has argaubly been his biggest issue inside and it is excerbated if you move him to the edge against long armed tackles. Now and again as a change up rush package, sure. Full time? Nah. It is that rather than size.