Cinci O Line injuries

[TampaBillsJunkie]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

With Von Miller, the Bills ranked 4th in the NFL in pressure rate (34.4%) with 4 or less pass rushers. Since his injury, the Bills are 27th in the NFL in pressure rate (25.4%) with 4 or less pass rushers.

For those (few) who say Von hasn't been missed. 

I believe it and I see it. Von was the one guy on defense we really couldn't afford to lose. He made everyone around him better.  This sucks. With Von and Hyde, I think we'd be kissing those rings in February. Without them, it's an uphill battle. 

[Drew21PA]

I see so many posts that lead me to believe that the last game against the dolphins has everyone completely confused.

 

so many drastic takes it’s wild

 

the defense played exceptionally well last week -  ridiculously well 

[TheWei44]

12 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

I see so many posts that lead me to believe that the last game against the dolphins has everyone completely confused.

 

so many drastic takes it’s wild

 

the defense played exceptionally well last week -  ridiculously well 

Very much agree - The concise summary of the game is that the offense won us the game but almost lost us the game!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

19 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

I see so many posts that lead me to believe that the last game against the dolphins has everyone completely confused.

 

so many drastic takes it’s wild

 

the defense played exceptionally well last week -  ridiculously well 

People don’t care because it was Skylar starting but you could’ve put anyone back there and they would’ve struggled.  Milano and edmunds were great, all our cbs played well.  Gave up 2 TDs in like 15 drives…one of which was a very short field.  
 

15 drives is pretty close to two games worth of drives 😂
 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Drew21PA]

7 minutes ago, TheWei44 said:

Very much agree - The concise summary of the game is that the offense won us the game but almost lost us the game!

Just sucks because you want to take away something but your left say “well ahhh I don’t know?”

 

maybe that is good maybe it’s bad?  I hate that feeling of the unknown 

[Jammer8732]

6 hours ago, H2o said:

Lawson gets 2 sacks this week, Groot 1, Oliver 2, Taron 1, and Milano 1. 

You forgot Hyde 2 Poyer 3…

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

Bengals are a passing team but, like us, they also need to run the ball. They likely won't be able to do that very well behind the right side of their line. With the LT out they might not be able to at all off tackle. I also think we will be able to dial up some pressure. If not we will likely have problems.

They ran very little last week. I think it's heavy intermediate routes to Chase & Higgins. I wouldn't be overly concerned with Boyd. 

[PrimeTime101]

6 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Their backups arent terrible players.   Probably not going to as big a deal as people will make out.  

Their PFF grades would disagree with you lol. Terrible is the only word for it.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

 

I think it's important to note that the O-Line does more than just pass block.

If they can't get any push in their run game and are generally disjointed, that will affect their passing game as well.

 

This absolutely will have a big impact on the game.

Of course. 

 

Hidden in that short snippet of a game was the Bengals (Mixon) gained 12 yards on 2 carries. 

 

 

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, IndyMark said:

 

Please no.

 

First, Ed is actually quite small for a DT.  In fact, during one of DaQuan Jones' first observation on becoming a Bill he expressed he was surprised how small Ed was.  Not sure why anyone would put "Big" as a descriptor for Ed?  Explosive, sure.  Big, nope.

 

Second, he does not have the frame or length to do anything of impact from the Edge.  He actually does better bull rushing against a double team because he is fast and small so he can split the two OL.  If he bull rushed 1 : 1 he would get planted on his back all day.  This is Physics 101.

 

Ed is likely about 25 pounds lighter than the average DT and about 3 inches shorter than the typical Edge along with his arm length being below average. 

 

Again, I want Ed to do well but we need to set realistic expectations.

Tiny Ed. 

[TAinLack.]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I have zero confidence in our DL pass rush. 

Leslie Frazier.., paging Leslie Frazier!

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

Or maybe 4/5.  Hard to keep track. 

 

Well, we'll see if my theory that injuries matter and "next man up" is largely garbage (ie: backups are way worse than starters in today's NFL, esp on the OLine).  

 

Although they went to the SB with a crap O Line last year, this wave of injuries is big and should make a difference in the game,  Hope Frazier has some stuff ready to go . 

 

 

Next man up is anything but garbage. This year we lost Von, we lost Hyde, White missed a bunch of games, Phillips is missing some, Damar, Benford, Edmunds, Poyer missed games ...

 

But we're still one of the three or four best defenses in the league.

 

Next man up can work. But if it's next five men up, you're in some serious trouble, generally. That's what's so impressive about their season this year.

 

I think you're right that it'll be a factor against Cincy. Hope so, anyway.

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

We didn’t dominate the decimated Miami OL why you think this will be different 

 

 

Miami averaged 2.1 YPC. I think the line did dominate them. Not really constantly one-on-one in the pass rush, but they did get pressure on him.

[Dr.Sack]

If we do this on D I love our ability to contain them:
 

Show creeper pressures with Edmunds, Milano, Johnson, or Marlowe all game.

 

Create traps by playing Robber 1 in area of Chase on 3rd downs. Burrow often stares down Chase and looks to get ball out in under 2.5 seconds hitting Chase on a quick slant or WR screen. 

 

Collapsing pocket by sending LB blitzes through A or B gaps leaving Oliver in 1 on 1, Rousseau/Basham/Lawson/Epenesa bull rushing to collapse pocket and prevent Burrow from escaping outside. Force Burrow to step up into collapsing chaotic pocket. First defender has to focus first on Burrow’s slipperiness, by slowing down, getting base wide and readying feet for Burrow attempt to slide past, use hands and arms to wrap up Burrow and pull him to the ground or wait for more defenders to pile on.

 

Elam press man on Chase (advantage Bills)

White 5 yards off Higgins (advantage Bills)

Johnson press man on Boyd (advantage Bills)

Marlowe 5 yards off Hearst (advantage Bengals)

Poyer in Cover 1 deep (advantage Bills if we can snag a few picks)

Edmunds or Milano on Mixon or Perrine (advantage Bills if we can force either RB to stay in and block, it back sneaks out non-blitzing LB must pickup back).  

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, TAinLA said:

Leslie Frazier.., paging Leslie Frazier!

They can blitz and get pressure. 

[Senth]

The Bills will beat the ***** out of that OL.

[Bookie Man]

Hoping the pass rush can get home. But also hoping for a lot of false starts and delay of games (if they feel like calling it). 

[Billever76]

4 hours ago, Chaos said:

Tiny Ed. 

Tiny Ed is a top 5 dt in run stop win rate

[Since1981]

Bills D is bend-don’t-break, keep them to “3”. Bills D assumes Bills O gets “7”

 

The opposite happened pre Hamlin. Bungles were 7, Bills 3. 
 

Bills seem to learn in-game. So…

[dollars 2 donuts]

16 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Va, honestly, I am pretty calm about this game.  Not in arrogance, but just calm.

 

However, I will most certainly be PO'd if we walk out of this game with something like 3 sacks for 8 yards and Burrows lighting us up because we could not get to him.

 

All the picks, all the free agents and you lose Von Miller a couple of months ago and you turn into the sisters of the poor trying to put a pass rush on?

 

Please.  Will not be happy.

 

 

 

 

Sorry if previously posted and I missed, but this is what I mean.

 

 

Sure, I knew we would miss him, but this is on the outskirts of Ridiculous City, in the State of Bull**** with respect to who is left and what they are accomplishing.

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[Sierra Foothills]

15 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

My large concern is there has been some pretty terrible officiating already in the playoffs, Bosa had every right to be pissed. He shouldn't act like child and hurt his team but he was being drug to the ground on 2 td passes directly in front of the refs, game changing blatant no calls. Then the roughing the passer on cousins was mind blowing. There's always bad calls but it feels like it's a matter of time until the bills get a terrible game changing call.

 

You gotta love that the Bills were only assessed 2 penalties for 13 yards against Miami.

 

A repeat of that level of discipline would be huge.

 

[CEN-CAL17]

12 hours ago, IndyMark said:

 

Please no.

 

First, Ed is actually quite small for a DT.  In fact, during one of DaQuan Jones' first observation on becoming a Bill he expressed he was surprised how small Ed was.  Not sure why anyone would put "Big" as a descriptor for Ed?  Explosive, sure.  Big, nope.

 

Second, he does not have the frame or length to do anything of impact from the Edge.  He actually does better bull rushing against a double team because he is fast and small so he can split the two OL.  If he bull rushed 1 : 1 he would get planted on his back all day.  This is Physics 101.

 

Ed is likely about 25 pounds lighter than the average DT and about 3 inches shorter than the typical Edge along with his arm length being below average. 

 

Again, I want Ed to do well but we need to set realistic expectations.

You realize he had a few snaps from the edge last year and actually got a sack…

 

Also that Rousseau has rushed from the DT position. I think matching up Ed’s strength and quickness can help collapse the pocket. It’s not always about getting around the edge.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by CEN-CAL17

[finn]

11 hours ago, Chaos said:

Tiny Ed. 

Ed Oliver: 6'1" 287

Aaron Donald: 6'1 285

 

I'll take tiny. 

[finn]

15 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Maybe do the Marlowe intentionally where he drops into an area that doesn't make sense based on what the Bills have shown previously?  I mean he made a mistake and got a pick, so why not?  😂

Is that what happened, or are you kidding? 

[CEN-CAL17]

6 minutes ago, finn said:

Ed Oliver: 6'1" 287

Aaron Donald: 6'1 285

 

I'll take tiny. 

Exactly and compare their combine results. 3 cone, 40 etc…. Ed needs to get the edge every now and then, just his strength could help collapse the pocket. Especially with a OG playing OT this week

[Big Turk]

58 minutes ago, finn said:

Is that what happened, or are you kidding? 

 

No, that's what he said.  He said he was playing the wrong coverage on that play and once he realized it, he just kinda did the best he could to get somewhere to make a play...happened to be exactly in the right place.

[Dopey]

18 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

After watching our #1 defense get shredded with 13 seconds left, I could care less about stats & analytics. The only thing that matters to me IS the smell & eye test.  

That was so last year, but somehow I like that this still bothers some of you here. Hoping some here still dream about it, wake up sweating about it, still cursing about it, kicking your dog about it, getting drunk about it, still complaining here about it…

 

[benderbender]

6 minutes ago, Dopey said:

That was so last year, but somehow I like that this still bothers some of you here. Hoping some here still dream about it, wake up sweating about it, still cursing about it, kicking your dog about it, getting drunk about it, still complaining here about it…

 

Don't hope for animal abuse. Unless it's specifically the Bengals and this Sunday. 

[IndyMark]

9 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

You realize he had a few snaps from the edge last year and actually got a sack…

 

Also that Rousseau has rushed from the DT position. I think matching up Ed’s strength and quickness can help collapse the pocket. It’s not always about getting around the edge.

 

 

You realize we are in what, week 18/19 and Oliver has played a negligible amount of snaps at DE, right? If any?  Different year, different personnel.  You honestly believe McDermott and Frazier have overlooked plugging Oliver in at DE?

 

Perhaps they were desperate last year......and while DE may be struggling this year, it is not like Oliver is lighting the world on fire pass rushing from his DT position.  Finally, the only way Oliver collapses a pocket from the edge is in fact getting around it.  He is not going to bull rush anyone with any arm length.

 

Again, technique and physics limit, greatly, Oliver's ability to bull rush 1:1. Again, he is actually decent against a double team cuz he can likely squeeze in between the 2 OL.  But he ain't bull rushing anyone 1 : 1....unless of course it is a RB, TE, or some type of hybrid.

9 hours ago, finn said:

Ed Oliver: 6'1" 287

Aaron Donald: 6'1 285

 

I'll take tiny. 

Just to clarify, you would take Ed over Aaron?  Or you think Ed and Aaron are comparable players?

 

I am not sure a universe exists that either of those two are even remotely considered. 

 

Also, the original point was "average" size of DT.... BTW, those are the only two career "statistics" that one could compare Oliver and Donald...anthropometry.

 

If Oliver were fractionally as impactful as Donald, we would be so so lucky.  As fate has it, he is not.

[That's No Moon]

On 1/17/2023 at 6:42 PM, That's No Moon said:

Can we activate Kingsley Johnathan? Even it's it's only obvious passing situations. The dude has juice off the edge that Lawson and Epenesa don't.

They listened. When he has a strip sack remember who told you first.

[SydneyBillsFan]

On 1/18/2023 at 5:40 PM, Billever76 said:

Tiny Ed is a top 5 dt in run stop win rate

 

That table says that both Ed and DaQuon are equal third!!

[Beast]

On 1/17/2023 at 2:20 PM, Beast said:

If the Bills d-line lays an egg against the Bengals our GM may be under the microscope for all the high draft picks and salary cap space he has spent on that unit. There is no reason we shouldn’t see a strong performance and anything less will be a big organizational failure.

Correct.

[IndyMark]

34 minutes ago, Beast said:

Correct.

 

eye-test > "analytics"......all day every day. 

 

Today removed any doubt about where our DT's and Edge players truly "rank". 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Well. I was wrong. Thought this would have been a factor. Disappointing. 

[Beach]

i would sign all their back up OL right now

[CoudyBills]

On 1/18/2023 at 8:03 AM, finn said:

Ed Oliver: 6'1" 287

Aaron Donald: 6'1 285

 

I'll take tiny. 

One of these guys is not like the other

[IndyMark]

1 minute ago, CoudyBills said:

One of these guys is not like the other

 

I was flummoxed when the poster replied in that manner as well.  I am all about being optimistic, but at some point reality sets in.

 

Today? Reality set in.  I have to think those that have mocked my position that Ed, while seemingly a great dude, is just not up to snuff as an NFL DT have learned a lesson in reality.  Yet, the probability exists they will remain with their blinkered vision.

 

As long as Beane and McD have learned, I am ok with that.

[Thrivefourfive]

It’s almost some sort of sadistic pleasure I’m getting in seeing the backup Bengals offensive linemen completely and utterly destroy every single Bills defender while the Artist Formerly Known as Joe Burrow twinkles and tippy toes his way inside their iron wall of protection and dominance. It’s soothing in a way, to see what real Men do to little fake football NFL’ers. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Thrivefourfive

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

58 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Well. I was wrong. Thought this would have been a factor. Disappointing. 

run game and pass pro… All those 1rst, seconds and $… ugh

[Matt_In_NH]

On 1/17/2023 at 6:23 PM, TH3 said:

On 1/17/2023 at 5:49 PM, Matt_In_NH said:

last week.  Did you see the dolphins online situation and watch the game?   They had to blitz to get any preasure

Yes …I saw a D that limited the opponent to 2.3 yards per play, 190 passing, 40 yards rushing, chased ST all day sacking him 4 times, picking him off….Yes…you blitz to get pressure….Bills have a D scheme that does that in specific situations and it has worked successfully for years…but pretty sure your smell test is the way to go

What did you see this week?