Fox News- Josh Allen's spiritual awakening

[SinceThe70s]

I had a traditional Christian up bringing. Always appreciated the values, but never bought in to the dogma.

 

Had my own 'spiritual awakening' many years ago related to my fathers last days. Josh's statements about Damar resonated for me.

[Goin Breakdown]

4 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

 

Yeah, I definitely think that prayer is benevolent for those doing the praying.  I don't have a specific faith but I was definitely saying and thinking "Just let him be ok" that night, even if it was to nobody in particular. 

 

The thing that gets me is implying that the prayer worked because the outcome was good.  That necessarily means that when the outcome is bad, the prayer didn't work.  To me it's a strange way of looking at a world where terrible undeserved things happen every day, that the victims of those things don't have enough cosmic energy on their side or something while others get helped.

I remember when my dad was dying with brain cancer. I prayed often, but then I also know that we aren't puppets so to speak. So for example I know that in his work he was exposed to some chemicals that led to his diagnosis. So basically it wasn't that God didn't hear my prayers but more that we live and we ruin and there are unfortunate consequences. My prayers are that I still believe even if the answers seem like a "no". Having faith is not easy but if it were all out in the open and we had the answers then we couldn't call it faith. That's the challenge. It's been very cool seeing peoples reactions to the Hamlin situation. It's been nice talking to some cool people like yourself. I remember last week Hamlin texted something like "God is using me for something different this week". I'm 100% fine without knowing all the answers but having faith that someday I will. 

[MJS]

28 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

 

Yeah, I definitely think that prayer is benevolent for those doing the praying.  I don't have a specific faith but I was definitely saying and thinking "Just let him be ok" that night, even if it was to nobody in particular. 

 

The thing that gets me is implying that the prayer worked because the outcome was good.  That necessarily means that when the outcome is bad, the prayer didn't work.  To me it's a strange way of looking at a world where terrible undeserved things happen every day, that the victims of those things don't have enough cosmic energy on their side or something while others get helped.

I won't say much because this is a football forum and I think this thread is already going off the rails with too much religious talk.

 

Prayer is interesting. You can pray all day and have perfect faith, but if what you are praying for does not align with God's will, it doesn't much matter. But I also believe some blessings/miracles are contingent upon us asking for them (such as through prayer). God sometimes wants us to ask, because that shows humility and faith.

 

That's all. I'm sure this thread will be locked soon.

[jkeerie]

17 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I remember when my dad was dying with brain cancer. I prayed often, but then I also know that we aren't puppets so to speak. So for example I know that in his work he was exposed to some chemicals that led to his diagnosis. So basically it wasn't that God didn't hear my prayers but more that we live and we ruin and there are unfortunate consequences. My prayers are that I still believe even if the answers seem like a "no". Having faith is not easy but if it were all out in the open and we had the answers then we couldn't call it faith. That's the challenge. It's been very cool seeing peoples reactions to the Hamlin situation. It's been nice talking to some cool people like yourself. I remember last week Hamlin texted something like "God is using me for something different this week". I'm 100% fine without knowing all the answers but having faith that someday I will. 

That's the biblical definition of faith..."Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Heb 11:1)

[ArtVandalay]

2 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

My father always hated back in the day when players thanked Jesus, God for their succes... He always said, God don't play favorites... 

That's not what players are saying though. They are giving thanks for their abilities, will, opportunity, etc.  Not for god rigging the game. 

[purple haze]

42 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

So when someone has a cardiac arrest and doesn’t make it, is it in part because there wasn’t enough prayer?  

Not necessarily.  It means it wasn’t in God’s plan for that person to continue on in this realm.  The Bible says it rains on the just and the unjust.   Prayer is powerful ( I’ve seen that evidence in my own life.)  That doesn’t mean we will always get the result we want.    
 

We see things through a limited prism.  We see the surface of things.  We don’t know about the intricacies of every person or every situation we encounter.     For example, I had a friend who collapsed one day and passed away unexpectedly; had been taking weight loss supplements.     I also know he was seriously struggling with his station in life.   Dreams that didn’t come true, things he wanted to do for his family that he couldn’t do.   He was very unhappy.  And he carried that with him daily.  For us left behind his passing was tragic.  For him?  Maybe the Lord was merciful and brought him home so he could have peace.    Like I said we can only see through our limited prism.  

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

This is such an improvement over the mocking that Tim Tebow recieved.  Josh is a special young man. 

 

Tebow is a fake and deserves to be mocked.  His old buddy, Robert Jeffress, would likely agree.

[Buffalo716]

18 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

That's the biblical definition of faith..."Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Heb 11:1)

Believing without seeing basically 

 

“Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed." 
(John 20:29)

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Demongyz]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Believing without seeing 

That is what faith is.  Or more to the point, perhaps you see and don't believe or understand.  

 

We are so small, and yet we find ourselves to be so large.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

He doesn’t toy with us, He loves us more than we can imagine. 
 

All of us are just passing through. You’re free to believe anything you like when it comes to the hereafter, but even choosing to believe God doesn’t exist is a belief that requires faith. My only follow up question for you would be what if you’re wrong? 

I can take a stab. My faith has swing like a pendulum over my life from being raised Protestant. to times if atheism, I think I’ve ultimately settled on the idea that good vibes are good, and the universe reacts to them. 

 

But to answer your question.  Who cares? What if I am a genuinely good person, who tries to do right by friends, family, and strangers, but didn’t believe in the correct version of God? And  the belief part was the only thing separating me for walking through the pearly gates vs eternally damnation? Then being a good person with good moral and intentions was never that important to that god anyways and heaven likely sucks. . 
 

Just trying to participate not argue, so hopefully I don’t come across as such. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Mango
Word

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, Chaos said:

This is such an improvement over the mocking that Tim Tebow recieved.  Josh is a special young man. 

Lol, this is nothing like Tim Tebow. 

2 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

So when someone has a cardiac arrest and doesn’t make it, is it in part because there wasn’t enough prayer?  

Was thinking the same thing.

 

While it's great that the people around Damar were able to feel the love and witness to each other, there are a lot of people out there who are affected by an unnecessary death and lose their faith altogether.

 

God does not decide these outcomes.

 

But people can get help through their faith/from God/from each other.

[Dr.Sack]

Imagine believing God is on your side and not forcing passes in the red zone. 

[CorkScrewHill]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

I’m always a little taken a back by the evangelism in the NFL. I mean I get it given how deeply rooted the sport is through the Bible Belt. 
 

I guess I am always surprised at how much room isn’t left in the NFL (and it’s fans) for other versions of faith and spirituality. 

There are many Muslims in the NFL as well and likely other religeons. The players have the right to share their beliefs on such things and we have the right to listen or even to care or not. As an example Aaron Rodgers has discussed his leaving Christianity .. which is his prerogative. I personally have led youth groups for decades and I am thrilled that Josh has felt drawn closer to God where an atheist may feel sorry for him as they would believe he is wasting his time. I think the article was interesting as it impacts our star player and I was happy to read it, but as a football site I think we should be careful about going too  far down a rabbit hole that is more about our belief in God (or lack of belief) than it is about what Josh has been dealing with.

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Dick_Cheney said:

Eh. 

 

I guess it wasn’t the amazing work of the training staff that saved Hamlin then. I’m glad that god decided to let him live this go around. 

 

Really weird article. Wouldn’t it make more sense for god to just not have the whole situation to begin with? Why would anyone choose to believe in a god who is toying with people and apparently deciding who lives and who dies on a whim?

 

Give me a break. 

Nobody is minimizing the amazing work of the training staff or anyone else involved by believing that there was some higher force that saved Hamlin's life.  Was Heines kick return an act of god or the result of the Patriots funneling to the middle of the field and not maintaining their gap integrity as Heins saw an opening to the right.  Not sure.  Allen interpreted it as an act of god and he has every right to feel that way.  I interpret it as the Patriots inept special teams kickoff coverage unit who's now allowed three touchdowns returned on 54 attempts.  No other team has allowed more than one.

[WotAGuy]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Nobody is minimizing the amazing work of the training staff or anyone else involved by believing that there was some higher force that saved Hamlin's life.  Was Heines kick return an act of god or the result of the Patriots funneling to the middle of the field and not maintaining their gap integrity as Heins saw an opening to the right.  Not sure.  Allen interpreted it as an act of god and he has every right to feel that way.  I interpret it as the Patriots inept special teams kickoff coverage unit who's now allowed three touchdowns returned on 54 attempts.  No other team has allowed more than one.

This is all true.

 

I see the situation as being less about whether or not God actually intervened, and more about how people find a belief or faith that helps them cope with life, especially in the light of traumatic events. 
 

If believing a certain way helps you negotiate life’s difficulties, more power to you. 
 

The problem comes when people exhibit what I would call spiritual arrogance. The world would be a happier place if we just allowed everyone to have their own belief or opinion without having to impress theirs upon others. 

[The Wiz]

23 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

This is all true.

 

I see the situation as being less about whether or not God actually intervened, and more about how people find a belief or faith that helps them cope with life, especially in the light of traumatic events. 
 

If believing a certain way helps you negotiate life’s difficulties, more power to you. 
 

The problem comes when people exhibit what I would call spiritual arrogance. The world would be a happier place if we just allowed everyone to have their own belief or opinion without having to impress theirs upon others. 

Unfortunately it's not just faith/religion that this happens with.

 

You can go as high level as politics/religion/gender/sexual preference all the way down to "you're a bad person if you don't like blue cheese with wings".

 

There are people out there that insist that no matter what, you're wrong and that's the biggest problem.

[WotAGuy]

27 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Unfortunately it's not just faith/religion that this happens with.

 

You can go as high level as politics/religion/gender/sexual preference all the way down to "you're a bad person if you don't like blue cheese with wings".

 

There are people out there that insist that no matter what, you're wrong and that's the biggest problem.

Agreed, but ranch and wings is just wrong. Damn wrong. I’ll not stand for it. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

C'mon Yaweh, Buddah, JC, Muhammad, Vishnu, God, need ya to show up for Josh & the boys at 1:00 tomorrow & next Sunday & the Sunday after that & 2 Sundays after that. (Covering my bases)

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

This is all true.

 

I see the situation as being less about whether or not God actually intervened, and more about how people find a belief or faith that helps them cope with life, especially in the light of traumatic events. 
 

If believing a certain way helps you negotiate life’s difficulties, more power to you. 
 

The problem comes when people exhibit what I would call spiritual arrogance. The world would be a happier place if we just allowed everyone to have their own belief or opinion without having to impress theirs upon others. 

It's called self righteousness

[WotAGuy]

15 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

It's called self righteousness

No it’s not!  It’s spiritual arrogance. I’m right dammit. 

[LeGOATski]

22 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

No it’s not!  It’s spiritual arrogance. I’m right dammit. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

7 hours ago, Demongyz said:

That is what faith is.  Or more to the point, perhaps you see and don't believe or understand.  

 

We are so small, and yet we find ourselves to be so large.

Couldn’t have said it better, Demon Gyz.

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You son of a... 😉😜😘 

 

You're the reason! 😆 

 

It’s funny, my priest at OMGC used to end the mass on Sundays during the season with a brief prayer for the Bills.  He filled the seats and there would be a bunch of men when I was a kid wearing jerseys.  My dad is so old fashioned he would comment they weren’t respectfully dressed and my mom would reply, but Don they are here.  He’d then change his tune.  Growing up I always though my dad was the head of the household, and my mom would state as

much, but in reality there was only one boss and it wasn’t him.

 

I’m so happy the players responded in the manner they did, and I know I said an Our Father every morning and night until he was released.  
 

For those who don’t believe (for me I don’t care if you’re Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or Buddhist) there really are no atheist in foxholes.

 

OP, thanks for sharing a nice story.  

[Since1981]

10 hours ago, Chaos said:

 

This is such an improvement over the mocking that Tim Tebow recieved.  Josh is a special young man.

 

It feels more valued when a specific event is experienced and the player(s) articulate it. In contrast, Tebow was quite different. Allen reflected back to us what many of us felt. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

10 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Hey, this whole “God doesn’t play favorites” never stopped me from praying for a W!!!  

I pray for them every week. Also, of note, sometimes it takes darkness to see the light. That's how it worked with me.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[SoCal Deek]

Not to be ‘that guy’ but the question has already been asked and answered. You’re supposed to pray that “Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” 
 

So with that firmly established, I keep praying that God has his Allen jersey on. Especially since from another thread, I hear it’s the Number One seller this year! 😁

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Im not trying to denigrate anyone’s beliefs.

 

Science saved Damar Hamlin. Not prayer. Science and preparation is what saved him. He would have died on the field if this happened probably as late as the 1990s. Science developed the AED and the CPR protocols that saved him. We should celebrate that.

[muppy]

after what we have seen this past week in the outpouring of pure love and yes prayers  from not only the NFL community but the

 

world for Damar Hamlin in my opinion is beyond ordinary it is Extraordinaire. That it allowed a lot of people to put aside their

 

differences of which team you root for to unite for a common goal of ANY Kind is to me nearly miraculous. That some people may

 

have seen God working in this situation and others not doesn't surprise me. But seeing national sport media being

 

so transparent about THEIR own faith is shocking. There aren't enough adjectives to describe this entire event.

 

Certainly Damar Hamlin didn't ask to become a beacon of hope and light to the world either which IMO he clearly has.

 

This story is nowhere near over. Damar Hamlins' journey is now a new beginning for the young man with his now enormously funded charitable organization.

 

I am looking forward to what will happen and what further good can come from such a horrific event.  💙💙💙

Edited January 14, 2023 by muppy

[WotAGuy]

9 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Im not trying to denigrate anyone’s beliefs.

 

Science saved Damar Hamlin. Not prayer. Science and preparation is what saved him. He would have died on the field if this happened probably as late as the 1990s. Science developed the AED and the CPR protocols that saved him. We should celebrate that.

This is also true.
 

Is it possible that prayer helped everyone involved to perform exactly the way they needed to for Damar to survive?  It certainly helped those of us who were hoping he would survive and helped us feel like we were providing aid in our own way. 
 

I guess my point is if people want to believe it is a miracle and that prayer helped, what difference does it make?  I don’t hear anyone saying that others need to believe in prayer over the science and preparation that saved Damar’s life. 
 

And couldn’t “science” be man’s God-given intelligence and ingenuity in action?

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by WotAGuy

[The Firebaugh Kid]

It has been really uplifting for me to see people coming together in prayer, believing for healing for Damar. Im a jackass on this forum most of the time, but my life was completely and radically changed by the love of God. I hope and pray this situation has ignited hope in all of us. 
I cried like a baby when Hines returned that kick, felt the same way Josh and many of you did. The moment was meant to be, yet so absolutely ridiculous at the same time.

Go Bills

[The Firebaugh Kid]

26 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Im not trying to denigrate anyone’s beliefs.

 

Science saved Damar Hamlin. Not prayer. Science and preparation is what saved him. He would have died on the field if this happened probably as late as the 1990s. Science developed the AED and the CPR protocols that saved him. We should celebrate that.

I’m of the belief that it all works together (knowledge, prayer/faith). Both have value. Respectfully 🙏

[HomeskillitMoorman]

11 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

I'm always thrilled when people come to faith in Jesus Christ or are renewed in that faith. I think the prayer of thousands was certainly a benefit in saving Hamlin's life and hastening his recovery.  What I don't buy into is God intervening to determine the outcome of games, the Sabres game alluded to in the article as an example.  I believe God is active in the world, but is not in the habit of picking favorites in athletic events.  

 

What about all the people that have tragic things happen and/or die every single day? Or the kids that as we speak are being trafficked. Are people just not praying hard enough for God to care to save them too?

12 hours ago, Chaos said:

This is such an improvement over the mocking that Tim Tebow recieved.  Josh is a special young man. 

 

There's a big difference in it if you read what Josh is saying vs Tebow. Josh seems to have more of a respect for the beliefs of others and doesn't tout that Christianity is right and everything else is wrong and that everyone else is going to Hell. He even in that statement talks about how he's explored different thoughts and beliefs. 

[Artful Dodger]

11 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

My father always hated back in the day when players thanked Jesus, God for their succes... He always said, God don't play favorites... 

 

While I agree with your dad, there is clear evidence that God always backs the winner.  You never hear losing players giving thanks to God.

[JY422]

25 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

It has been really uplifting for me to see people coming together in prayer, believing for healing for Damar. Im a jackass on this forum most of the time, but my life was completely and radically changed by the love of God. I hope and pray this situation has ignited hope in all of us. 
I cried like a baby when Hines returned that kick, felt the same way Josh and many of you did. The moment was meant to be, yet so absolutely ridiculous at the same time.

Go Bills

Well said.

[Don Otreply]

 Good for Josh, 

 

Lets not lose track that it was science and education that saved Damar Hamlin’s life. 
 

Being kind and doing good deeds needs no religion.  

Edited January 14, 2023 by Don Otreply

[HomeskillitMoorman]

10 hours ago, jkeerie said:

Anyone who would imply that...does not know God.

 

The classic crutch from Christians who don't want to actually have a tough in-depth discussion..."you just don't know him like I do!"

10 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

He doesn’t toy with us, He loves us more than we can imagine. 
 

All of us are just passing through. You’re free to believe anything you like when it comes to the hereafter, but even choosing to believe God doesn’t exist is a belief that requires faith. My only follow up question for you would be what if you’re wrong? 

 

So if you believe there's this loving, kind God...why would it matter if someone was wrong and Christianity or any other specific religion was real? Seems awfully petty to hold that against someone in a world where so little can make sense and there are no straightforward answers. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Im not trying to denigrate anyone’s beliefs.

 

Science saved Damar Hamlin. Not prayer. Science and preparation is what saved him. He would have died on the field if this happened probably as late as the 1990s. Science developed the AED and the CPR protocols that saved him. We should celebrate that.

People of good will can celebrate both.  
 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

10 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I remember when my dad was dying with brain cancer. I prayed often, but then I also know that we aren't puppets so to speak. So for example I know that in his work he was exposed to some chemicals that led to his diagnosis. So basically it wasn't that God didn't hear my prayers but more that we live and we ruin and there are unfortunate consequences. My prayers are that I still believe even if the answers seem like a "no". Having faith is not easy but if it were all out in the open and we had the answers then we couldn't call it faith. That's the challenge. It's been very cool seeing peoples reactions to the Hamlin situation. It's been nice talking to some cool people like yourself. I remember last week Hamlin texted something like "God is using me for something different this week". I'm 100% fine without knowing all the answers but having faith that someday I will. 

 

I respect that you at least have the humility to say you don't have all the answers. I grew up in a Christian setting and that was always so maddening to me. They didn't want to hear my questions and just couldn't admit that all the answers weren't in the Bible. And the evangelical side of it and people seemingly being OK with others being sent to Hell specifically not for being Christian was always a big turnoff for me. 

 

I'm firmly agnostic, I believe anything is possible and love to debate about it but I appreciate that you see that other side of it that it's incredibly hard to make sense out of all of it rather than having a condescending view that you just "know" God and others don't. 

[KDIGGZ]

Your faith is a personal journey and so is Josh's. You can choose to believe or not to believe. He also has that free will. If it's not for you then move along. If you can relate then that's cool too

[WotAGuy]

3 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

I respect that you at least have the humility to say you don't have all the answers. I grew up in a Christian setting and that was always so maddening to me. They didn't want to hear my questions and just couldn't admit that all the answers weren't in the Bible. And the evangelical side of it and people seemingly being OK with others being sent to Hell specifically not for being Christian was always a big turnoff for me. 

 

I'm firmly agnostic, I believe anything is possible and love to debate about it but I appreciate that you see that other side of it that it's incredibly hard to make sense out of all of it rather than having a condescending view that you just "know" God and others don't. 

 
Very well put. Thank you.