SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Simon said: Can you please tell me all the other teams that are currently missing more than this: Both of their starting DE's Their top two Offensive Linemen Both of their starting CB's Their MLB/defensive captain 1.5 of their two all-pro safeties Their starting Y receiver Thanks; I'll hang up and listen....... I have to admit I stared at this puzzled for about 30 seconds before remembering Crowder is a person who exists. Edited November 25, 2022 by SageAgainstTheMachine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, WideNine said: That is something I picked up on too, because there is almost always subjective determinations or rankings with sports analytics. The size of the bubble represents the impact of the players lost. Who makes that determination and how? So, plots like these need to be taken with skepticism. PFF does this quite a bit with their formulas. Not useless analytics, just the fact that you need to understand what they use for their metrics to come up with rankings and graphs and not just take them at face value. Career AV, which is kind of the standard career value ranking created by Pro Football Reference. It's not perfect but it's pretty good. 17 minutes ago, Simon said: Can you please tell me all the other teams that are currently missing more than this: Both of their starting DE's Their top two Offensive Linemen Both of their starting CB's Their MLB/defensive captain 1.5 of their two all-pro safeties Their starting Y receiver Thanks; I'll hang up and listen....... Tennessee would be a pretty good comp. Harold Landry was out before the season started with an ACL and they have had tons of injuries...Tannehill missed two games also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Big Turk said: A lot changes between now and the playoffs. That's where the disconnect with people comes from. We aren't playing with a mentally and physically exhausted team that has been through a metric ton worth of crap over the past week and still managed to win 2 games in 5 days. I'll tell you something else. You wouldn't see more than one or two other teams in the NFL win both those games under those circumstances. What I’m saying is we have to get healthier. We can go far without Von Miller but we can’t go far with half the starting defense out. Von signed here because we were already Super Bowl caliber. But we need to get healthier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, wagon127 said: The Bills are 8-3, a half game behind the number 1 seed in the AFC, who we have the tiebreaker against. We have yet to lose to a team with a losing record, and have beaten every other division leader in the AFC. Why are bills fans acting so horrible to our team? Every other Super Bowl champion for the last 50 years has lost regular season games. That's what I have been trying to figure out. It's been all doom and gloom. Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said: What I’m saying is we have to get healthier. We can go far without Von Miller but we can’t go far with half the starting defense out. Von signed here because we were already Super Bowl caliber. But we need to get healthier. We need to get key players back at the right time. But every team will deal with injuries during the postseason and will unlikely be at full strength. Just gotta overcome it. Bills have gotten pretty good at doing that, and that pays huge dividends when they get in big games and have to do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Who woulda ever thunk playing through pain and nursing strains, prevents worse injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Big Turk said: That's what I have been trying to figure out. It's been all doom and gloom. We need to get key players back at the right time. But every team will deal with injuries during the postseason and will unlikely be at full strength. Just gotta overcome it. Bills have gotten pretty good at doing that, and that pays huge dividends when they get in big games and have to do it again. Key players. You said it. We can’t be without Hyde, White, Edmunds, Rousseau, and Miller at the same time. No defense is overcoming that in the playoffs. This is the type of stuff they’ve delt with all year. They get players back and another couple players are out. It’s been Hyde, Poyer, Oliver, Phillips, White. Or Hyde, Poyer, White, Milano, Rousseau. It’s just never ending. Half the defense is always out. Give me a defense just missing Miller and Hyde, we can get by. Edited November 25, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) So we’ve had 20 more games missed by starters than the team we’re one game behind in the standings for #1 overall seed. That number will likely grow after this week. But not an excuse? Ok. I care about the 1 seed. We’re 8-3. We own the tiebreaker over KC. However, they’ve had a sizable health advantage over us, and that doesn’t include Allen now 3 games in the books playing hurt, in which we dropped 1 in OT. Id argue the metric you shared IS the difference between who owns the 1 seed right now. Edited November 25, 2022 by SCBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Injuries do hurt, call William Mattar. Three stud DB’s out is problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 With Von about to miss multiple games I think that’s every starter on defense now to miss a few. Doubt there is another team in the NFL with that luck. Seems like we’re cursed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Want to see the breakdown, was White on that list? How about starters? This data is useless on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Players can also can also be injured and still playing which impacts effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 The injury stats are misleading. A team with dog turd players getting injured is not the same with a team having awesome star players getting injured. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlgarsh Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Big Turk said: Bills tied for 5th fewest man games lost to injury with only 83. The difference? Many of them have been to key players unlike the last several years. So the excuses the Bills are somehow more injured than every other team needs to stop. They are STILL one of the least injured teams in the NFL even with what seems like a crazy rash of injuries...we just don't see all the players out for other teams because we don't follow them very closely. Injuries to non key players/starters would help as well. They're a fumbled snap from 9-2, and the 3 losses are by 8 total points. There's no reason to panic. After this Thursday they have a mini bye and hopefully get healthier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Big Turk said: Bills tied for 5th fewest man games lost to injury with only 83. The difference? Many of them have been to key players unlike the last several years. So the excuses the Bills are somehow more injured than every other team needs to stop. They are STILL one of the least injured teams in the NFL even with what seems like a crazy rash of injuries...we just don't see all the players out for other teams because we don't follow them very closely. Injuries to non key players/starters would help as well. No offense, but this is a complete waste of time post. First, whose hurt is a bigger impact than how many games have been missed. Second, injuries played a major roll in our losses and recent struggles. Miami game we had Tommy Sweeney play 5 snaps with a torn ACL because we didn’t have enough OL. Our backup center botched a FG snap. We were missing 7 starters on defense, 5 OL, Knox, and more by end of the game. We had 14 of our 22 starters out for all or part of the Miami game. That’s 64% of our starters or guys who started that game. Against Vikings, not only did we have all the injuries going into the game, but we lost Edmunds at halftime and the defense was worse after losing Edmunds. I can keep going on and on, but what’s the point. To say injuries have not played a role in our struggles or losses is completely off base and 100% lacks context. So yeah, you’re wrong. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airseven Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 “Man games” don’t matter. What matters is who and when. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills92 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, jlgarsh said: They're a fumbled snap from 9-2, and the 3 losses are by 8 total points. There's no reason to panic. After this Thursday they have a mini bye and hopefully get healthier. This. End of the day, and no offense to the OP, but what is the point of this thread. This team could be easily undefeated but in all three games we beat ourselves (in spite of injuries). I think there was genuinely an expectation amongst some Bills fans that this team would go undefeated and dominate each of those games. That narrative became even more 'real' because of how much we dominated in the first 2 games of the year. As much as people 'poo poo' the statement.. it is hard to win in the NFL... but at this point, I would continue to celebrate that from Top to bottom of this organization we are top 5 in this league, and, most likely for many years to come. You can call it drinking the kool aid, or wearing rose colored glasses, but I call it being realistic. This is a fantastic team that can genuinely win any given Sunday and to not embrace that after 17 years of mediocrity, well, kind sir, for many reasons lacks some level of rational perspective. Go Bills! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Bills92 said: This. End of the day, and no offense to the OP, but what is the point of this thread. This team could be easily undefeated but in all three games we beat ourselves (in spite of injuries). I think there was genuinely an expectation amongst some Bills fans that this team would go undefeated and dominate each of those games. That narrative became even more 'real' because of how much we dominated in the first 2 games of the year. As much as people 'poo poo' the statement.. it is hard to win in the NFL... but at this point, I would continue to celebrate that from Top to bottom of this organization we are top 5 in this league, and, most likely for many years to come. You can call it drinking the kool aid, or wearing rose colored glasses, but I call it being realistic. This is a fantastic team that can genuinely win any given Sunday and to not embrace that after 17 years of mediocrity, well, kind sir, for many reasons lacks some level of rational perspective. Go Bills! The point is people are crying in their beers here over an 8-3 team and saying we have all these injuries...newsflash. Every other team has them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Interesting topic, but generated first by couching the injury concerns as whining. I have watched this team for a long time and cannot recall a season when so many key starters missed full games or portions of games or were playing banged up. There have been some that have been close, but not quite this bad. It's a legit concern, only compounded by having a new OL coach, new OC, new QB coach, and Allen struggling even prior to his injury (that we know of) leading a turnover-prone offense that has been less effective in the red zone. This team has not felt "whole" since the first few games and has struggled pulling together 4 quarters of solid football so even the normally easy plays there for the taking have felt like daunting challenges. The Miami game is likely a statistical outlier too in regards to how many players went down during the game, but were back the next week against the Ravens. That may be a blip on the games missed chart but carried far more meaningful implications within our division. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 The bills have more high end starters out this year than any team We’ve been without our linebackers in edmunds and Milano and points …. Without our safeties Hyde and poyer at points…. All pro tre white missing … #2 corner injured Ed Oliver got hurt , Rousseau got hurt We’re not losing depth players we’re losing contributors at a high rate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 How did injuries result in healthy players forgetting how to tackle? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said: It's not the numbers! It is who is injured Yeah, that's very true. The entire starting secondary was out at the same time for a while. Now Von freaking Miller is out. Hopefully Rousseau and Epenesa will be back next week, Otherwise the line play is going to be struggling. Mac Jones isn't a threat to have an explosive day, but Rhamondre Stevenson will be Derrick Henry like if Buffalo doesn't have most of their rotational pieces together on the D-line. Edited November 25, 2022 by BigAl2526 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awwufelloff Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Man game injuries mean next to nothing. The name and impact of the players lost means the most. We've had key injuries to how many of our top 10 players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said: It's not the numbers! It is who is injured Exactly, and that's shown in this pic: The larger the bubble, the higher the cumulative quality of players lost to injury. The raw number of man-games puts us in the bottom five, but the cumulative quality of lost players has us in the top ten, and we're still sitting at 8-3. Other than Baltimore, most teams with a bubble that large are sitting at 4-5 wins. Notice the small bubbles for the teams we've lost to and the teams with better, or equivalent, records. And neither stat factors in strength-of-schedule. Stats without analysis aren't all that meaningful. Edited November 25, 2022 by WhoTom 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 If you lose your backup guard and backup safety that’s one thing. When your talking injuries to frontline cornerstone players and your starting QB who people where literally talking Tommy John surgery with two weeks ago is literally having to play and be Superman cause he’s got no secondary receivers that’s another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MphsBillsfan Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 All the injuries on secondary and oline and still only lost 3 games by 8 points. The backups are stepping up, don't get me wrong it's not pretty at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Quality over quantity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 I don't discount the sheer number of key injuries this team has suffered this year but when you look around the league so has just about everyone else including all the major division/SB favorite teams. The Chiefs if anything have been pretty lucky on the injury front until losing a few of their WR's recently but they will all likely be back this week or shortly after. Bottom line it's truly next man up and this is where real depth is tested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 FIrst, the 8-3 Bills owe no excuses to anyone with their fine record. Second, of course there are excuses - missing much of your secondary, missing your best pass rushers and having your MVP QB dinged affects everything. Who cares about "man games lost" - lies, damn lies and statistics. Any fan can see we are very affected by injury and have been for much of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBillsFan Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Big Turk said: Bills tied for 5th fewest man games lost to injury with only 83. The difference? Many of them have been to key players unlike the last several years. So the excuses the Bills are somehow more injured than every other team needs to stop. They are STILL one of the least injured teams in the NFL even with what seems like a crazy rash of injuries...we just don't see all the players out for other teams because we don't follow them very closely. Injuries to non key players/starters would help as well. Guarantee this doesn't count Tre or Hyde because of IR. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Big Turk said: Bills tied for 5th fewest man games lost to injury with only 83. The difference? Many of them have been to key players unlike the last several years. So the excuses the Bills are somehow more injured than every other team needs to stop. They are STILL one of the least injured teams in the NFL even with what seems like a crazy rash of injuries...we just don't see all the players out for other teams because we don't follow them very closely. Injuries to non key players/starters would help as well. Sorry. Quality matters more than quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 How do they calculate man game lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponch Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Big Turk said: For not completing the mission this year. Little premature aren’t we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Does Tre' count? There's 10.75 more games to add to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc1320 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Total snaps lost by starters would be a more telling stat here for us. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkScrewHill Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said: It's missing key Data on injuries. Like the fish game heat illness. This chart or post missing key points. some key points missing from this 1) Who decided the relative quality of the player missed. 2) Do they count people on IR? I look at the injury reports every week and it has “seemed” that we have in general been missing more starters than our opponents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 hour ago, WhoTom said: Exactly, and that's shown in this pic: The larger the bubble, the higher the cumulative quality of players lost to injury. The raw number of man-games puts us in the bottom five, but the cumulative quality of lost players has us in the top ten, and we're still sitting at 8-3. Other than Baltimore, most teams with a bubble that large are sitting at 4-5 wins. Notice the small bubbles for the teams we've lost to and the teams with better, or equivalent, records. And neither stat factors in strength-of-schedule. Stats without analysis aren't all that meaningful. I cant even believe this thread is still going. So many nails in the coffin in it like this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 There is a difference between games missed due to injury, and playing at less than 100% by playing with the injuries. There's a world of gray you miss in your black and white world. It's not an excuse, it's a reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpen65 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 I think a lot of guys are playing injured though. Allen hasn't missed any games but he's injured. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 5 hours ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said: It's not the numbers! It is who is injured Exactly, and this is worth repeating. Simply “counting games” without any context is misleading. It’s not just the “how many”, who they are is critical and it has hurt our defense dramatically. Would you take 6 injured ST players, or one guy named Josh. The “who” is a big deal. I get it, the numbers are surprising….until you look beneath the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Terrible thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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