Scheme & Coaching matter

[WIDE LEFT]

As demonstrated by Bill Belichick and Leslie Frazier. Pats, in two successive games,  completely shut down Zach Wilson, so completely that he has been benched. When Wilson played against the Bills, he looked like a real NFL QB. For one of the very few times in his career.

[JGMcD2]

This is correct. 

 

Seems like some sort of dig at Frazier... he's done this plenty of times to opposing QBs as well. Our issue against the Jets wasn't stopping Wilson... he threw for 154 yards. It was the two horrible turnovers by Josh and the inability to stop the run. 

[hondo in seattle]

Coaches, as well as players, have good as well as bad games.   Since Frazier's been here, we've had far more good than bad.

 

Given all the hospital time, bandages and pain shots the D has been through this year, Frazier is doing pretty well.

[Process]

Great post. 

 

Belichick has basically been Josh Allen's bi*** for two years. 

 

I love his scheme.

[MJS]

Wilson threw for 150 yards and zero TD's against the Bills. By any one else's standards, that is being shut down.

 

He has had plenty of games like that this year, btw.

[PrimeTime101]

27 minutes ago, WIDE LEFT said:

As demonstrated by Bill Belichick and Leslie Frazier. Pats, in two successive games,  completely shut down Zach Wilson, so completely that he has been benched. When Wilson played against the Bills, he looked like a real NFL QB. For one of the very few times in his career.

bolded

 

BA HA HA HA

[Bangarang]

Apparently our defense being one of the best in the league under Frazier’s time here has been a mirage. 
 

Or did people really think our defense would hold up the entire year with rookie CBs, no Hyde and an injured Poyer. 
 

[WIDE LEFT]

I recall Frazier’s scheme could not protect a lead with 13 seconds v KC. His “scheme” included protecting the sideline despite the fact KC still had 3 timeouts. Travis Kielce tells Mahomes that the way the Bills are playing their D scheme, he will be wide open down the middle. And he was. This player saw it, our D coordinator somehow did not. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, WIDE LEFT said:

As demonstrated by Bill Belichick and Leslie Frazier. Pats, in two successive games,  completely shut down Zach Wilson, so completely that he has been benched. When Wilson played against the Bills, he looked like a real NFL QB. For one of the very few times in his career.

 

You realize the Bills have held opposing QBs to under 200 yards passing over half the time in the last 2.5 seasons right?

 

Wilson had 154 yards against us. A few nice throws but most of them were basically 1 to 3 step drops and throw quickly to guys near the LOS 

[Nihilarian]

It's not like Wilson threw for 300 yards, 4 TDs against Buffalo.

 

It was 18 of 25 for 154, 1 TD. 

 

The NY Jets run game went 34 for 174, 1 TD.  The Bills defense also held them to 20 points. I'm not entirely happy with Frazier either...but man, those injuries! Look at the difference those star players make on the team, Poyer, Milano, Edmunds. Did I mention Poyer? 

 

The Bills offense hit a slump with Josh under tremendous pressure all game, 5 sacks. Josh also threw 2 INTs, ran for 2 TDs. 

 

It reminds me of last seasons Jacksonville game in which Josh Allen under constant duress the entire game and the Buffalo OC has no answer or plan B other than to keep having the QB throw.  12 rushes by the Bills RBs in that game might be a reason as to why that happened. 

 

The Bills showed they can run now with 33 attempts for 171 yards rushing against Cleveland.

 

Let's hope they keep that up the rest of the year and limit the pressure on the QB. 

[zow2]

I'm old enough to remember when Mike White was the rage, and beat Cincinnati and a few other teams..  Then while he was white hot Mike White the Bills went into Met Life and crushed him.  After that he went back the bench.  So credit to Leslie,,, and they made Zach Wilson look pretty bad last year.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The Bills showed they can run now with 33 attempts for 171 yards rushing against Cleveland.

 

Let's hope they keep that up the rest of the year and limit the pressure on the QB. 

 

They showed they can run against Cleveland, one of the worst run Ds in the NFL. They got away from the run against the Jets because it was going nowhere. I have more sympathy with the argument that they abandoned the run too early against the Vikings. The run game actually worked really nicely in the 1st half of that game and sure, the Vikes made adjustments at halftime, but ultimately it felt like we never made any concerted effort to get it going second half after they stuffed a couple. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, WIDE LEFT said:

As demonstrated by Bill Belichick and Leslie Frazier. Pats, in two successive games,  completely shut down Zach Wilson, so completely that he has been benched. When Wilson played against the Bills, he looked like a real NFL QB. For one of the very few times in his career.

 

Don't leave us hanging.  If you were "King of the Forest" what would your answer be?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

"Scheme & Coaching matter"

 

*
I thought he went to the Giants with Daboll. 🤔

[Wayne Cubed]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They showed they can run against Cleveland, one of the worst run Ds in the NFL. They got away from the run against the Jets because it was going nowhere. I have more sympathy with the argument that they abandoned the run too early against the Vikings. The run game actually worked really nicely in the 1st half of that game and sure, the Vikes made adjustments at halftime, but ultimately it felt like we never made any concerted effort to get it going second half after they stuffed a couple. 

 

Yea the Vikings adjusted. They were using the CBs to set the edge in the 1st half and then switched to LBs covering the edge and practically invited on runs up the middle. Watching the Bills attempt to run up the middle against a soft box in the 2nd half, and this isn't exagerating, was pathetic. Now, maybe it was the design of the runs up the middle and running out of the shot gun but it was awful against those light boxes.

 

I'm just not convienced the Bills can effectively run the ball, even with recent "success" against the worst run defense in the league.

[freddyjj]

2 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

As demonstrated by Bill Belichick and Leslie Frazier. Pats, in two successive games,  completely shut down Zach Wilson, so completely that he has been benched. When Wilson played against the Bills, he looked like a real NFL QB. For one of the very few times in his career.

My guess is no Milano and no Poyer spell disaster for Frazier and his scheme.  Hard to bring pressure when you have 2 players out of back 7 starters to work with.  

[FilthyBeast]

2 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

As demonstrated by Bill Belichick and Leslie Frazier. Pats, in two successive games,  completely shut down Zach Wilson, so completely that he has been benched. When Wilson played against the Bills, he looked like a real NFL QB. For one of the very few times in his career.

 

This has been my argument here the last few years in terms of why I hate this defensive scheme and not fooled by the top 5 overall rankings each year.

 

Too many times in recent years this defense has let both subpar and elite NFL starting QB's rip them to shreds even when mostly healthy. And it's at the point where opposing teams and coaching staffs are begging for multiple 3rd/4th and long plays against this unit because they seem to be easier to convert than a 3rd/4th and short play.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

As demonstrated by Bill Belichick and Leslie Frazier. Pats, in two successive games,  completely shut down Zach Wilson, so completely that he has been benched. When Wilson played against the Bills, he looked like a real NFL QB. For one of the very few times in his career.

Our defense is absolutely decimated by injuries…all the jets did was pick on our backup lbs.  even so he only threw for 150 yards 

 

zach Wilson threw for 355 the first matchup with the pats 

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Yea the Vikings adjusted. They were using the CBs to set the edge in the 1st half and then switched to LBs covering the edge and practically invited on runs up the middle. Watching the Bills attempt to run up the middle against a soft box in the 2nd half, and this isn't exagerating, was pathetic. Now, maybe it was the design of the runs up the middle and running out of the shot gun but it was awful against those light boxes.

 

I'm just not convienced the Bills can effectively run the ball, even with recent "success" against the worst run defense in the league.

 

Yea agree with all of that, albeit I think the point that they basically tried one style of run game (as you said, up the middle from the shotgun) it didn't work and they abandoned it even with a big lead rather than seeing if they could find another way to get a bit of a run game going was a mistake. And I am not, as a rule, someone who stands here pounding the table for running game. But they got away from it too quickly vs Minnesota IMO. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

49 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This has been my argument here the last few years in terms of why I hate this defensive scheme and not fooled by the top 5 overall rankings each year.

 

Too many times in recent years this defense has let both subpar and elite NFL starting QB's rip them to shreds even when mostly healthy. And it's at the point where opposing teams and coaching staffs are begging for multiple 3rd/4th and long plays against this unit because they seem to be easier to convert than a 3rd/4th and short play.

You can say the same thing about the pats defense though…arguably the best qb they’ve seen in the last 5 weeks is brissett.

 

they’ve faced:

brissett

fields

wilson

ehlinger

wilson 

throw in a game against the Steelers earlier in the season too

Packers scored 27 on them,  Lamar and fields torched them.  Tua had a good game against them.  They are beating up on awful offenses mostly.  
 

the shutout against Detroit is nice but belichick has had goffs number his whole career pretty much so I’m not sure how much that defensive effort applies to other teams 

 

even if you want to go back to last year you can say the same thing about the pats defense that you’re saying about the bills.  They beat up on bottom feeders on the easy afc east schedule and then got absolutely smoked by the playoff caliber afc teams down the stretch 

 

id argue the pats scheme is even more likely to beat up on bad teams and struggle against good ones 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

This is correct. 

 

Seems like some sort of dig at Frazier... he's done this plenty of times to opposing QBs as well. Our issue against the Jets wasn't stopping Wilson... he threw for 154 yards. It was the two horrible turnovers by Josh and the inability to stop the run. 

154 yards was 150 too much!! Yes, the Allen TOs were terrible but that should've been a game the defense and Tyler Bass won for us

[dickleyjones]

14 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This has been my argument here the last few years in terms of why I hate this defensive scheme and not fooled by the top 5 overall rankings each year.

 

Too many times in recent years this defense has let both subpar and elite NFL starting QB's rip them to shreds even when mostly healthy. And it's at the point where opposing teams and coaching staffs are begging for multiple 3rd/4th and long plays against this unit because they seem to be easier to convert than a 3rd/4th and short play.

oh yeah you heard them beg for it? cool.

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, dickleyjones said:

oh yeah you heard them beg for it? cool.

He's never heard anyone beg for it.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

41 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

154 yards was 150 too much!! Yes, the Allen TOs were terrible but that should've been a game the defense and Tyler Bass won for us

If 154 is too much, the pats gave up 355 passing yards in the first jets matchup 😂 and if we want to start factoring in garbage time, the bills gave up a heck of a lot less yards against the browns lol

Edited November 23, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Protocal69]

3 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

As demonstrated by Bill Belichick and Leslie Frazier. Pats, in two successive games,  completely shut down Zach Wilson, so completely that he has been benched. When Wilson played against the Bills, he looked like a real NFL QB. For one of the very few times in his career.

Last 2 times Wilson played the Bills Wilson has a TOTAL of 141 net passing yards. I guess Wilson last game vs the Bills was better than last year where Wilson had 5 NET passing yards for the WHOLE GAME

[WhoTom]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Don't leave us hanging.  If you were "King of the Forest" what would your answer be?

 

Obviously, fire Frazier and replace him with Belichick's son. 😉

 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

Obviously, fire Frazier and replace him with Belichick's son. 😉

 

 

[MPL]

This post is very wide left. 

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

154 yards was 150 too much!! Yes, the Allen TOs were terrible but that should've been a game the defense and Tyler Bass won for us

No milano.  No Poyer.   No rousseau in the 2nd half. Among others.  Bernard got destroyed.  
 

  I agree, we still should’ve won, but Allens TO’s we’re too much to overcome.  They came at terrible times and that’s why we lost.  Wilson made a couple nice throws too.  

Edited November 23, 2022 by NewEra

[clearwater cadet]

3 and short I take the Bills D, 3 and long I take the oppositions offense.  Sad but true. 

[Scott7975]

14 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

I recall Frazier’s scheme could not protect a lead with 13 seconds v KC. His “scheme” included protecting the sideline despite the fact KC still had 3 timeouts. Travis Kielce tells Mahomes that the way the Bills are playing their D scheme, he will be wide open down the middle. And he was. This player saw it, our D coordinator somehow did not. 

 

I recall Belichicks scheme couldnt make us punt for like 2 full games in a row so...

12 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This has been my argument here the last few years in terms of why I hate this defensive scheme and not fooled by the top 5 overall rankings each year.

 

Too many times in recent years this defense has let both subpar and elite NFL starting QB's rip them to shreds even when mostly healthy. And it's at the point where opposing teams and coaching staffs are begging for multiple 3rd/4th and long plays against this unit because they seem to be easier to convert than a 3rd/4th and short play.

 

Yeah, Im sure that opposing coaches around the league are saying to themselves... if only we could get to 3rd and long here we will be ok.

[Reks Ryan]

17 hours ago, Process said:

Great post. 

 

Belichick has basically been Josh Allen's bi*** for two years. 

 

I love his scheme.

Was just going to post that.  Josh Allen and Bills O scored a TD on every drive in their last game against BB’s amazing schemes.  And that was in freezing temps that normally help limit the passing game. 

[Billsforumsucks]

18 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

I recall Frazier’s scheme could not protect a lead with 13 seconds v KC. His “scheme” included protecting the sideline despite the fact KC still had 3 timeouts. Travis Kielce tells Mahomes that the way the Bills are playing their D scheme, he will be wide open down the middle. And he was. This player saw it, our D coordinator somehow did not. 

And Bellicheat lost the same way to the Chiefs with 16 seconds using the exact same scheme. Another stupid useless thread.

[CoudyBills]

This should really be an offensive thread.  Redzone scheme matters.

1 hour ago, Flucod said:

And Bellicheat lost the same way to the Chiefs with 16 seconds using the exact same scheme. Another stupid useless thread.

Do you understand how boring this place would be if only the threads deemed worthy were posted?  

[John from Riverside]

Scheme and coaching do matter, so do things like injuries, playing styles of teams, and QBs just having a really good day

[Jerome007]

22 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

I recall Frazier’s scheme could not protect a lead with 13 seconds v KC. His “scheme” included protecting the sideline despite the fact KC still had 3 timeouts. Travis Kielce tells Mahomes that the way the Bills are playing their D scheme, he will be wide open down the middle. And he was. This player saw it, our D coordinator somehow did not. 

All the posts praising Frazier are accurate. But so is this one. Players sometimes make dumb plays. Coaches can make dumb calls and have bad games.

 

Do I think overall Belichick is better than Frazier? Yes. But Leslie has done a fine job too. 

[Dopey]

23 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

As demonstrated by Bill Belichick and Leslie Frazier. Pats, in two successive games,  completely shut down Zach Wilson, so completely that he has been benched. When Wilson played against the Bills, he looked like a real NFL QB. For one of the very few times in his career.

In our loss to the jets:

Wilson: 18-25

154 yds, 1 td and ZERO ints

Allen: 18-34

205 yds, 0 td and TWO ints

Not sure what game you watched, but both qbs sucked. Josh just sucked more. The defense and Frazier did not lose that game. Josh and the offense did. I know that’s a hard pill to swallow for Josh apologists, but it is what it is. 

[Dopey]

21 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This has been my argument here the last few years in terms of why I hate this defensive scheme and not fooled by the top 5 overall rankings each year.

 

Too many times in recent years this defense has let both subpar and elite NFL starting QB's rip them to shreds even when mostly healthy. And it's at the point where opposing teams and coaching staffs are begging for multiple 3rd/4th and long plays against this unit because they seem to be easier to convert than a 3rd/4th and short play.

Ok, sure. 🤔