[Name Only Title] Ed Oliver

[3rdand12]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:32 AM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Meh. 
 

It’s said all the time DTs in this system don’t get numbers, they just chew up blocks. Sometimes it looks like they don’t even attempt a tackle, they literally just chew up a blocker. 
 

His stats suggest he definitely isn’t make any impact plays. I’m just not sure if it’s an Ed Oliver thing, but I have a hard time believing MLB and DT just isn’t ‘impact positions’ in our defense. 

it does come down to assignments.

thats why i have trouble "hating" on any player.
But Ed's strength is penetrating DT . If his ankle is shot , so is is amazing burst. 

 

This is a Football season and how it Always goes. A hefty measure of tolerance is required ☺️

On 11/7/2022 at 11:42 AM, SCBills said:

 

This is a confusing statement to make

wordplay ? re -sign vs resign ?? lol

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, GreggTX said:

He's a hair's width above average for a NFL starting DT. He won't be selling insurance any time soon and I doubt he'll ever be invited to a probowl. We need to focus more on the OL.

I agree. I'm tired of investing all the money and draft picks on D anymore. Get some quality Olineman around Josh. Protect him and start establishing a damn run attack. If OBJ replaces Gabe, so be it. Start putting 60% of your emphasis on the offense. 

[gonzo1105]

I'm at the point that we start investing some of this defensive money into offensive players. We need a legit OL and stop hodge podging it together every year. We need another weapon whether at WR/RB doesn't matter to me. Ed Oliver doesn't make enough splash plays to command the type of money he is going to command. If the system doesn't allow players to flourish than why are we going to pay a guy top dollar. We should only be investing in one of Ed Oliver or Tremaine Edmunds and then reallocate that money to the offensive side of the ball. 

[3rdand12]

15 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I'm at the point that we start investing some of this defensive money into offensive players. We need a legit OL and stop hodge podging it together every year. We need another weapon whether at WR/RB doesn't matter to me. Ed Oliver doesn't make enough splash plays to command the type of money he is going to command. If the system doesn't allow players to flourish than why are we going to pay a guy top dollar. We should only be investing in one of Ed Oliver or Tremaine Edmunds and then reallocate that money to the offensive side of the ball. 

Riddle me this ? Then why would he command the money he will command ?

 Not to disagree with your overall opinion

[WhoTom]

Suddenly there's a bunch of people saying we shouldn't invest in D anymore - beef up the O instead. Well, last year's O was good enough to reach, and probably win, the SB; the defense blew the Chiefs game. This year's offense is the league's 3rd highest in points per game, and that includes Sunday's anomaly. Granted, this year's D is the best in the league, but it's not like our offense, which has averaged over 27 points per game, is in desperate need of upgrades.

 

Beane and McD have built this team by drafting, trading, and FA signing based on value and availability, not reaching for short-term needs. When they see someone who's available, affordable, and better than what we currently have at any given position, they go for it. That's how you build a sustaining contender. We've had key injuries on both sides of the ball - more than in a typical year - which has resulted in two horrible games, both of which came down to the final play. It's hard to look at that and say the front office is neglecting anything.

[ArtVandalay]

5 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

Suddenly there's a bunch of people saying we shouldn't invest in D anymore - beef up the O instead. Well, last year's O was good enough to reach, and probably win, the SB; the defense blew the Chiefs game. This year's offense is the league's 3rd highest in points per game, and that includes Sunday's anomaly. Granted, this year's D is the best in the league, but it's not like our offense, which has averaged over 27 points per game, is in desperate need of upgrades.

 

Beane and McD have built this team by drafting, trading, and FA signing based on value and availability, not reaching for short-term needs. When they see someone who's available, affordable, and better than what we currently have at any given position, they go for it. That's how you build a sustaining contender. We've had key injuries on both sides of the ball - more than in a typical year - which has resulted in two horrible games, both of which came down to the final play. It's hard to look at that and say the front office is neglecting anything.

We had the #1 defense in the NFL. Coaching blew the Chiefs game, don't kid yourself. 

[WhoTom]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

We had the #1 defense in the NFL. Coaching blew the Chiefs game, don't kid yourself. 

 

Fine. Defensive coaching blew it. Or defensive execution blew it. My point is that the offensive talent wasn't, and still isn't, the problem.

Edited November 8, 2022 by WhoTom

[The Jokeman]

15 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

Suddenly there's a bunch of people saying we shouldn't invest in D anymore - beef up the O instead. Well, last year's O was good enough to reach, and probably win, the SB; the defense blew the Chiefs game. This year's offense is the league's 3rd highest in points per game, and that includes Sunday's anomaly. Granted, this year's D is the best in the league, but it's not like our offense, which has averaged over 27 points per game, is in desperate need of upgrades.

 

Beane and McD have built this team by drafting, trading, and FA signing based on value and availability, not reaching for short-term needs. When they see someone who's available, affordable, and better than what we currently have at any given position, they go for it. That's how you build a sustaining contender. We've had key injuries on both sides of the ball - more than in a typical year - which has resulted in two horrible games, both of which came down to the final play. It's hard to look at that and say the front office is neglecting anything.

Well stated. 

[gonzo1105]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Riddle me this ? Then why would he command the money he will command ?

 Not to disagree with your overall opinion

 

Because sometimes other teams value players more than their original team. Maybe another team will think they can unlock his potential in their system. A lack of depth on the market at a certain position like DT usually doesn't have a guy who has started for 5 years and is only 26 years old. Just like the draft, teams sign players  more on what they think a player can be going into their late 20's early 30s much than signing a guy on the downside of his career 32 on. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

He's a miss in the draft. 

 

I think the smart thing is to let him go. 

[zow2]

The DLine looks like they are going through the motions the last couple games.  Oliver included.  Maybe some humble pie this past Sunday will do them all some good.

[LabattBlue]

Bad News...Oliver has been very underwhelming, and may be playing himself into UFA territory

 

Worst News...If the "Bad News" comes to fruition, brace yourself for another 1st or 2nd round pick on ANOTHER DL next April.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

Fine. Defensive coaching blew it. Or defensive execution blew it. My point is that the offensive talent wasn't, and still isn't, the problem.

This week's loss and last week's second half were failures of the offense.

 

We need a true #2 receiver. We need more help on the right side of the OL. We need a RB that can carry the load if needed.

 

That's pretty indisputable at this point. The team HAS to start using the draft to stock the offensive cupboard, give Josh what he wants and needs.

[ArtVandalay]

13 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Bad News...Oliver has been very underwhelming, and may be playing himself into UFA territory

 

Worst News...If the "Bad News" comes to fruition, brace yourself for another 1st or 2nd round pick on ANOTHER DL next April.

Not again! 😅

 

I didn't even think of this. 

[Pete]

13 hours ago, zow2 said:

The DLine looks like they are going through the motions the last couple games.  Oliver included.  Maybe some humble pie this past Sunday will do them all some good.

Roos and Miller show up.  What happened to DaQuan and crew?  Ive seen Settle- where is everyone else on DL.  Someone else step up and help this team

[Ethan in Cleveland]

18 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Suddenly there's a bunch of people saying we shouldn't invest in D anymore - beef up the O instead. Well, last year's O was good enough to reach, and probably win, the SB; the defense blew the Chiefs game. This year's offense is the league's 3rd highest in points per game, and that includes Sunday's anomaly. Granted, this year's D is the best in the league, but it's not like our offense, which has averaged over 27 points per game, is in desperate need of upgrades.

 

Beane and McD have built this team by drafting, trading, and FA signing based on value and availability, not reaching for short-term needs. When they see someone who's available, affordable, and better than what we currently have at any given position, they go for it. That's how you build a sustaining contender. We've had key injuries on both sides of the ball - more than in a typical year - which has resulted in two horrible games, both of which came down to the final play. It's hard to look at that and say the front office is neglecting anything.

You make good points. I think the counter argument is that Allen makes up for many of the deficiencies of the OL. Brown has been at best up and down. Bates seems ok but he is not great. I advocated for matching his offer from the Bears and I'm still fine with that decision.  Morse is good enough. 

Also last year they had Sanders and Beasley. So the offense has seen a fair amount of turnover since last season. 

 

My biggest issue with the offense is that Knox should be getting 10 targets a game like Kelce. Davis should be the third option not the second.

[hemma]

A couple of weeks ago, Beane signed Zimmer to the PS.  

I went to Wegman’s and asked for 1/2 pound of fresh chicken intestines, came home, chucked them on the kitchen counter and started reading.

It was clear to me they would trade Oliver before the deadline for a 2nd and a 7th, promote Zimmer and we’d barely notice any change in 3T output.

Open up money for next year & this year too.

 

I missed by a hair.

 

The entrails are now happily composting in my neighbor’s bushes.

[BruceVilanch]

On 11/7/2022 at 7:45 AM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Slowly but surely, people are seeing what I've known to be true for years.

 

[st pete gogolak]

This thread got me to thinking about 2023 (I still believe in 2022!) and what the Bills defense might look like and how resources should finally flow to the offense.  So what could D look like next year:

 

CB - White, D. Jackson, T. Johnson, Elam, Benford.  You can't be any more stacked than this.  No FA's, no draft choices.

S - If Hyde is healthy (obviously, big if) I don't see them holding on to Poyer.  Love Poyer but Hamlin can play SS with Hyde next to him.  I'd like to see Neal backing up one of the spots.  No FA's, maybe a late draft choice.  Wouldn't mind not seeing J. Johnson on the field again.

OLB - Milano backed up by Bernard.  No FA's, no draft choices.

ILB - I don't think they resign Edmunds.  I'd like to see them try to pry Bobby Wagner off the Rams or someone similar.  Vet with instincts and aggression but not the athleticism of Edmunds.  Or resign Dodson as a cheaper alternative.  Can Spector be a viable backup?

DE - Miller, Rousseau, Epenesa, Basham.  Let Lawson walk.  No FA's, no draft choices.

DT - Oliver (same deal as Edmunds this year - let him play out fifth year and see if it is worth resigning him), Jones, Settle.  Let Phillips walk.  No FA's, maybe middle round draft choice.  

 

That leaves a lot of room to upgrade at OL, WR, possibly RB.  Defense should be fine.

[nedboy7]

On 11/8/2022 at 12:34 PM, ArtVandalay said:

We had the #1 defense in the NFL. Coaching blew the Chiefs game, don't kid yourself. 

 

Coaching created the #1 defense to begin with though. 

[SoCal Deek]

56 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Coaching created the #1 defense to begin with though. 

But we didn’t play the Chiefs every week…thankfully. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I say again:

 

Most overrated player on the team.

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I say again:

 

Most overrated player on the team.

He’s had a couple called back due to penalty, otherwise he’d be atop this list with 4.5 games played.

[ArtVandalay]

20 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Coaching created the #1 defense to begin with though. 

Bill Buckner was a 289 career hitter. 

[ColoradoBills]

On 11/7/2022 at 1:39 PM, HOUSE said:

He likes horses and lives in East Aurora....he stays

(Private joke )

 

.

 

I got one.

 

A drill sergeant grumbles at his fresh young trainee, “I didn’t see you at camouflage training this morning, Private.”

 

 

“Thank you very much, Sir,” replies the soldier.

[FilthyBeast]

8 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I say again:

 

Most overrated player on the team.

 

At what point do you look at coaching for the lack of sack production on this team? Especially since Jerry Hughes (who I also personally thought was finished in this league) is putting up numbers in Houston.

 

If this team does fall short of lofty expectations once again this year after last offsesaon's defensive line overhaul it's clearly time to part ways with the likes of Frazier and Washington. Either that or Beane is publicly admitting his repeated failures.

[ArtVandalay]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:22 PM, FilthyBeast said:

 

At what point do you look at coaching for the lack of sack production on this team? Especially since Jerry Hughes (who I also personally thought was finished in this league) is putting up numbers in Houston.

 

If this team does fall short of lofty expectations once again this year after last offsesaon's defensive line overhaul it's clearly time to part ways with the likes of Frazier and Washington. Either that or Beane is publicly admitting his repeated failures.

They want Frazier to get hired as a Head Coach to get the draft pick compensation. 

[Monty98]

I don't understand why people think DT get astronomical sack numbers. Ed will get some looks every once in a while where he's single blocked, but he's often going to get chipped by a RB in the pass game. Oliver gets great penetration, but the downfall with that is you lead to a secondary block. The benefit of that is you take that running back out of the play. I understand stand people expect 10+ sack seasons cause he was drafted at 9. That is absurd, if he's constantly in the 6-8 range as a DT and gets his share of TFLs we are winning with him.

 

Secondly, I do believe he has a high ankle sprain.. that's what he got dinged up with? I'm 3 months out from a high ankle sprain and I still don't have full strength/weight bearing ability. Granted he's an athlete with a world class rehab team, but they always tell people the high ankle sprains last and linger all season

 

[balln]

People talking about how oliver was slighted with pro bowl announcements. puuuhhhleaase

 

How did we draft a 6' undersized player from a mid major over , the guys after. SIMMONS, wilkins, lawrence, burns..... all massive 6 4 from schools like clemson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NFL_Draft#Supplemental_draft

 

its a big whiff IMO. drafting 9th overall. you have to get a better player than what oliver is. 

 

1.5 sacks this year. needed a dareus 10 sack performance. not gonna get it im afraid

On 11/11/2022 at 9:14 PM, Monty98 said:

I don't understand why people think DT get astronomical sack numbers. Ed will get some looks every once in a while where he's single blocked, but he's often going to get chipped by a RB in the pass game. Oliver gets great penetration, but the downfall with that is you lead to a secondary block. The benefit of that is you take that running back out of the play. I understand stand people expect 10+ sack seasons cause he was drafted at 9. That is absurd, if he's constantly in the 6-8 range as a DT and gets his share of TFLs we are winning with him.

 

Secondly, I do believe he has a high ankle sprain.. that's what he got dinged up with? I'm 3 months out from a high ankle sprain and I still don't have full strength/weight bearing ability. Granted he's an athlete with a world class rehab team, but they always tell people the high ankle sprains last and linger all season

 

he doestnt get 6-8!

[The Jokeman]

3 minutes ago, balln said:

People talking about how oliver was slighted with pro bowl announcements. puuuhhhleaase

 

How did we draft a 6' undersized player from a mid major over , the guys after. SIMMONS, wilkins, lawrence, burns..... all massive 6 4 from schools like clemson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NFL_Draft#Supplemental_draft

 

its a big whiff IMO. drafting 9th overall. you have to get a better player than what oliver is. 

 

1.5 sacks this year. needed a dareus 10 sack performance. not gonna get it im afraid

he doestnt get 6-8!

Simmons was a guy I liked going into that draft but he got hurt late in his senior season so there was question about his ability to return. I was happy with Ed but the truth is his numbers don't warrant a top 10 pick and while love him back I don't think he deserves top dollar but someone likely will give it to him. 

[Ramza86]

#freezingcoldtakes

[balln]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Simmons was a guy I liked going into that draft but he got hurt late in his senior season so there was question about his ability to return. I was happy with Ed but the truth is his numbers don't warrant a top 10 pick and while love him back I don't think he deserves top dollar but someone likely will give it to him. 

mostly there with you. its definitely retrospective. but thats what i love doin surrounding team building and draft picks. only to evaluate is after the fact. 

Just now, Ramza86 said:

#freezingcoldtakes

its needed for the ridiculous hot takes / oliver got snubbed from pro bowl

[benderbender]

The Edmunds thread has made debating the play of certain players super vague, generalized, and--by the standards of this board-- indefensible. Here's the go to that we can apply to any player:

It's the plays he takes away that you don't see that makes him valuable. 

His size is an asset. 

He only does what the coaches ask of him. 

He's a leader. 

He would not be easily replaced. 

He could go to any other team to get paid and we're lucky to have him.

 

By the laws of the Edmunds thread, this argument is over and I win. Anyone who has specific examples is just a hater and likes to lose somehow. 

[BuffaloBaumer]

I think he must have a lingering injury. He was a monster the 2nd half of last year so not sure what happened there...

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

I think he must have a lingering injury. He was a monster the 2nd half of last year so not sure what happened there...

He has also been a monster this year, right up to the point where he got injured
 

you don’t measure a defensive tackles, production in sacks, and Oliver is more of a disruptor

 

having said that thinking that Oliver should make the pro bowl is silly because he has been inconsistent due to his injuries

Edited December 22, 2022 by John from Riverside

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, balln said:

mostly there with you. its definitely retrospective. but thats what i love doin surrounding team building and draft picks. only to evaluate is after the fact. 

its needed for the ridiculous hot takes / oliver got snubbed from pro bowl

Are there really that many people saying he got snubbed?  I haven’t seen anyone say that.  
 

Ed is 4th alternate-  the real snub is Daquan.  He should’ve been 1st or 2nd alternate based on his play 

 

the worst alternate-  Saffold being 2nd alternate  🤮  maybe 2nd to last alternate

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Are there really that many people saying he got snubbed?  I haven’t seen anyone say that.  
 

Ed is 4th alternate-  the real snub is Daquan.  He should’ve been 1st or 2nd alternate based on his play 

 

the worst alternate-  Saffold being 2nd alternate  🤮  maybe 2nd to last alternate

 

I think that's one of those Ben Franklin "let a man once develop a reputation for being an early riser, and he may sleep until noon" things

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think that's one of those Ben Franklin "let a man once develop a reputation for being an early riser, and he may sleep until noon" things

Yeah, like Ruben Brown collecting pro bowl after pro bowl because of his name . He wasn’t as bad as Saffold this year, but I don’t think he deserved a couple of those pro bowls at the end. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

On 11/8/2022 at 2:34 PM, ArtVandalay said:

We had the #1 defense in the NFL. Coaching blew the Chiefs game, don't kid yourself. 

 

 That #1 ranking was a mirage. We played a bunch of bad teams & offenses. The opposing QB list, at that time, was riddled bad young QBs and bad old QBs. The list of bad QBs faced last year:

 

Jones - twice 

Wilson & White - once each

Tua - twice

Mills

Heinicke

Siemian

Ryan

Wentz

Newton

Lawrence 

Roethlisberger 

 

 

 

Average QB faced:

 

Tannehill

 

 

 

Good QBs faced:

 

Mahomes

Brady

 

 

 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 That #1 ranking was a mirage. We played a bunch of bad teams & offenses. The opposing QB list, at that time, was riddled bad young QBs and bad old QBs. The list of bad QBs faced last year:

 

Jones - twice 

Wilson & White - once each

Tua - twice

Mills

Heinicke

Siemian

Ryan

Wentz

Newton

Lawrence 

Roethlisberger 

 

 

 

Average QB faced:

 

Tannehill

 

 

 

Good QBs faced:

 

Mahomes

Brady

 

 

 

You’re right, it was a mirage….

 

but coaching lost that game.  There is no doubt.