Bills release new stadium renderings

[boater]

36 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

One thing I like about MSG and Barclays in NYC is that there is no parking lot or huge parking garage. People take the train or a combo of the bus or train to the games. Not to veer too far off topic but I wish more stadiums/arenas would have easy public transportation. 

It's not all bad. Highmark has this https://metro.nfta.com/schedules/game-day-express by WNY transit measures, this is gold-plated service.

 

[Victory Formation]

I have a question for anyone who is willing to answer. 

How do you guys think that the current state of the economy combined with rising inflation costs will impact the cost and the building of the new stadium?

 

Will it still be built on time?

 

Will the price of the stadium stay the same?

[SoCal Deek]

5 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

One thing I like about MSG and Barclays in NYC is that there is no parking lot or huge parking garage. People take the train or a combo of the bus or train to the games. Not to veer too far off topic but I wish more stadiums/arenas would have easy public transportation. 

We were utterly amazed at how quickly they moved an entire stadium full of fans out after the Bills game in London a few years back. They know there’s a game and they have the trains lined up and ready to roll. It was incredibly efficient!

[Bronxbomber21]

On 10/29/2022 at 10:59 AM, Taro Nimbus said:

you really think they'll have the same offense 4 years from now?

Yes Josh Allen will still be there so they will have still have a top passing game.

[Buffalo716]

8 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

I have a question for anyone who is willing to answer. 

How do you guys think that the current state of the economy combined with rising inflation costs will impact the cost and the building of the new stadium?

 

Will it still be built on time?

 

Will the price of the stadium stay the same?

Yea the price will stay the same … but the value … bang for the buck… will definitely not be as good as 4-6 years ago… with the state of the economy the value of the dollar won’t go as far

[Victory Formation]

47 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yea the price will stay the same … but the value … bang for the buck… will definitely not be as good as 4-6 years ago… with the state of the economy the value of the dollar won’t go as far

Thank you.

[Just Jack]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:30 PM, Mike in Horseheads said:

Umm... maybe we need @ExiledInIllinois to explain the winds and how the stadium is built affects that

 

I'm not sure his knowledge of water flows translates to wind. 

[LabattBlue]

General contractors selected….

 

https://buffalonews.com/business/local/pegula-sports-and-entertainment-picks-contractors-to-build-new-buffalo-bills-stadium/article_42bb6276-5b98-11ed-8690-abe27c75bc7d.htmlyou 

[Draconator]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

General contractors selected….

 

https://buffalonews.com/business/local/pegula-sports-and-entertainment-picks-contractors-to-build-new-buffalo-bills-stadium/article_42bb6276-5b98-11ed-8690-abe27c75bc7d.htmlyou 

I worked with Gilbane when they built the assembly line for the (now defunct) Saturn engine at the GM plant in Tonawanda. Their main competition was Turner. To see Gilbane and Turner partner together is the best of both worlds, as both companies are the gold standard in high profile construction. Add to that Thurman and Patti's 34 Group, and that is a dream construction team with Bills history (Thurman) involved in the project. 

[Nextmanup]

On 10/27/2022 at 2:50 PM, SDS said:

Are you saying this looks like the current stadium? Because that’s weird.

 

If I was to nitpick anything it’s that the renderings give off a very shiny, modern vibe to an area that is distinctly not that style. 
 

My sense is that it would feel kind of off in OP. I could see a stadium like this in a place like Chicago with tremendous amounts of great architecture. Hopefully I’m wrong.

Buffalo has as much great architecture, pound for pound, as any city in America.

 

Not necessarily of this type, but that's OK.

That's how architecture works.  Great design is great; it all fits together.

 

Of course the stadium shouldn't be in Orchard Park, at all, but that's another discussion...and very Buffalo.

 

I said they would go open air in in OP several years ago.  I wasn't wrong.

 

 

 

[WotAGuy]

On 10/30/2022 at 11:16 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Yea the price will stay the same … but the value … bang for the buck… will definitely not be as good as 4-6 years ago… with the state of the economy the value of the dollar won’t go as far

I thought part of the agreement is that Pegula will pick up the overruns?  I’m not aware of very many large construction projects that come in right at budget. Overruns are expected and managing them is part of the deal. 

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

I thought part of the agreement is that Pegula will pick up the overruns?  I’m not aware of very many large construction projects that come in right at budget. Overruns are expected and managing them is part of the deal. 

I never saw anything about what happens if it goes over 

 

but what you said makes sense 

[WotAGuy]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I never saw anything about what happens if it goes over 

 

but what you said makes sense 

This explains it in very general terms. 
 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/28/bills-owners-terry-and-kim-pegula-will-be-responsible-for-stadium-cost-overruns/amp/

[The Wiz]

8 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

I thought part of the agreement is that Pegula will pick up the overruns?  I’m not aware of very many large construction projects that come in right at budget. Overruns are expected and managing them is part of the deal. 

Which is also a reason why many people go with the lowest bid.  I'm sure if the Pegula's picking up the tab for overbudget costs, they already had a number they are comfortable with in total cost. 

 

Some of the projects I work, I am given a budget to do a renovation and tell my boss we can't do it unless it's X amount of dollars for the budget.  After a little back and forth he "finds the money" to get the renovation done.  He already had a top dollar picked out but wanted to see what could be done first to limit hitting a higher mark.

 

The same could be said with the Pegula's.  I'm sure they are being told "It will cost 1.4B"  The first question I'm sure they would ask is "what is it going to cost if things are behind, go over budget, etc."

[Draconator]

For those that didn't or don't want to read the above referenced article...

 

https://www.buffalobillsnewstadium.com/

[WotAGuy]

12 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Which is also a reason why many people go with the lowest bid.  I'm sure if the Pegula's picking up the tab for overbudget costs, they already had a number they are comfortable with in total cost. 

 

Some of the projects I work, I am given a budget to do a renovation and tell my boss we can't do it unless it's X amount of dollars for the budget.  After a little back and forth he "finds the money" to get the renovation done.  He already had a top dollar picked out but wanted to see what could be done first to limit hitting a higher mark.

 

The same could be said with the Pegula's.  I'm sure they are being told "It will cost 1.4B"  The first question I'm sure they would ask is "what is it going to cost if things are behind, go over budget, etc."

For these large capital projects, I think it’s just the opposite - you don’t necessarily go with the lowest bid. You go with the firm that has a proven track record of bringing projects in on time and within budget. That way you have a firm experienced in estimating the cost up front as well as managing overruns. 
 

I’m not sure the Pegulas have a magic upper number in mind.  If the overruns could be estimated with any certainty, they would be factored into the overall price. 
 

The current supply chain cost and availability issues makes these large construction projects even more difficult to estimate.  Your best hedge against out of control overruns is to pick a firm with the experience and connections to minimize the uncertainties. 

[frostbitmic]

The screens that will confuse the wind, will they confuse the sideways snow from squalls too ?

[ColoradoBills]

Without starting a big thing, a project like this will really inject a lot of financial activity in the region for the next few years.

Local business will benefit, and local communities will collect a good amount of taxes.

 

Not all the cost of projects like this are sunk.  I'm going to make a trip to the 2nd or 3rd home game in 2026.

Can't wait to experience the new stadium!

 

 

 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Without starting a big thing, a project like this will really inject a lot of financial activity in the region for the next few years.

Local business will benefit, and local communities will collect a good amount of taxes.

 

Not all the cost of projects like this are sunk.  I'm going to make a trip to the 2nd or 3rd home game in 2026.

Can't wait to experience the new stadium!

 

 

 

 

There you go! You started a big thing again! 

 

I don’t have to be at the very first game there, but I want to be there early. I still have vivid memories of going to the first game at The Ralph in 1973. Experiences like that are the things that last. 

 

.

3 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Wheres the roof? 

 

They put it on the bottom this time. Cutting edge stuff! 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

There you go! You started a big thing again! 

 

I don’t have to be at the very first game there, but I want to be there early. I still have vivid memories of going to the first game at The Ralph in 1973. Experiences like that are the things that last.

 

LOL, I did the disclaimer and laughed as I typed it.  You know how things get around here.

 

Same with me about the 1st game.  It will be costly and difficult to get tickets and I will want to go with the brothers and nephews

who still live in WNY.

[TheFunPolice]

I read on PFT that Thurman's construction company will be a general contractor for the stadium build.

 

That's pretty cool 

[LabattBlue]

36 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I read on PFT that Thurman's construction company will be a general contractor for the stadium build.

 

That's pretty cool 

I think it was a no brainer.  It would not be a good look for PSE not to bring on board, a minority construction management firm as one of 3 companies tasked for the job.  Bills HoF’er, local company…it would be a nightmare if they weren’t given a small chunk of the work, and then went to the media. 

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I think it was a no brainer.  

agree… assuming they’re competent and “on the level”.

[Draconator]

I'm sorry, but this is funny. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

On 11/3/2022 at 1:53 PM, WotAGuy said:

For these large capital projects, I think it’s just the opposite - you don’t necessarily go with the lowest bid. You go with the firm that has a proven track record of bringing projects in on time and within budget. That way you have a firm experienced in estimating the cost up front as well as managing overruns. 
 

I’m not sure the Pegulas have a magic upper number in mind.  If the overruns could be estimated with any certainty, they would be factored into the overall price. 
 

The current supply chain cost and availability issues makes these large construction projects even more difficult to estimate.  Your best hedge against out of control overruns is to pick a firm with the experience and connections to minimize the uncertainties. 

Projects like this are generally contracted under either a Guaranteed Minimum Price, commonly known as Lowest Responsive Bid, or a Guaranteed Maximum Price under which structure any cost savings are often shared between the Contractor and the Owner. Overruns, or Change Orders, as they’re commonly known, come from three main categories: additional owner requests, design deficiencies, and unforeseen conditions (soils, etc). When a good team of architects, engineers, and contractors is assembled changes can easily be held under 5% of the total cost. 

[Buffalo716]

On 11/5/2022 at 12:19 PM, LabattBlue said:

I think it was a no brainer.  It would not be a good look for PSE not to bring on board, a minority construction management firm as one of 3 companies tasked for the job.  Bills HoF’er, local company…it would be a nightmare if they weren’t given a small chunk of the work, and then went to the media. 

Don’t make it a race issue 

 

It should go to the best companies … I don’t care if it’s owned by a black guy an Indian , Asian, or Latino 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Buffalo716

[LabattBlue]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Don’t make it a race issue 

 

It should go to the best companies … I don’t care if it’s owned by a black guy an Indian , Asian, or Latino 

 

You don’t think as part of the deal with the state and county, that minority or woman owned businesses get their share of project related work?  

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by LabattBlue

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

You don’t think as part of the deal with the state and county, that minority or woman owned businesses get there share of project related work?  

 

 

just cause there’s affirmative action type stuff.. Doesn’t mean it’s always correct… And Plenty of minorities would agree with that

 

The job should Always go to the best person available.. Regardless of sex or race

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Buffalo716

[SoCal Deek]

20 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

just cause there’s affirmative action type stuff.. Doesn’t mean it’s always correct… And Plenty of minorities would agree with that

 

The job should Always go to the best person available.. Regardless of sex or race

 

 

 

As someone in the business, the real problem with these type of carve outs hiring is that they generally target companies that are OWNED by minorities or women. This says nothing then about the actual workers which is where 90% of the contract goes. When WBE (women-owned business enterprise) legislation first came out a number of guys just ‘gave’ the company to their wives. It changed nothing for anyone. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Bills, this is how you canopy. Allianz Stadium! 70,000 seats all covered. What is our excuse for not covering 62,000?

 

 

[Mike in Horseheads]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bills, this is how you canopy. Allianz Stadium! 70,000 seats all covered. What is our excuse for not covering 62,000?

 

Do you  Have a spare billion to make it happen?

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bills, this is how you canopy. Allianz Stadium! 70,000 seats all covered. What is our excuse for not covering 62,000?

 

 

I definitely agree. Once it was decided to not build a dome, it makes zero sense to build the new stadium with only a partial cover. 

[Locomark]

10 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bills, this is how you canopy. Allianz Stadium! 70,000 seats all covered. What is our excuse for not covering 62,000?

 

 

An Extra $300 million I would guess. All kidding aside, Munich is not in a snow belt and I assume there are cost and safety concerns about snow weight if they extend the roof too much without it being closed. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Locomark

[Punching Bag]

19 minutes ago, Locomark said:

An Extra $300 million I would guess. All kidding aside, Munich is not in a snow belt and I assume there are cost and safety concerns about snow weight if they extend the roof too much without it being closed. 

 

Don't confuse irrational ranters with facts.

On 11/8/2022 at 1:09 PM, SoCal Deek said:

As someone in the business, the real problem with these type of carve outs hiring is that they generally target companies that are OWNED by minorities or women. This says nothing then about the actual workers which is where 90% of the contract goes. When WBE (women-owned business enterprise) legislation first came out a number of guys just ‘gave’ the company to their wives. It changed nothing for anyone. 

 

A friend of mine asked my wife to be a partner to such a business so he could qualify for set aside business.

[Locomark]

5 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Don't confuse irrational ranters with facts.

 

A friend of mine asked my wife to be a partner to such a business so he could qualify for set aside business.

That Munich stadium was completed this year for 800 million US and it is nicer than what we are building. Is that due to legislation. Nope. 

[mjd1001]

11 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bills, this is how you canopy. Allianz Stadium! 70,000 seats all covered. What is our excuse for not covering 62,000?

 

 

As others have said, in Munich, they actually get very little snowfall. It is rare for more than a couple inches to fall at a time. 

The type of roof/canopy that can be put on a Stadium in Munich is totally different than what would be required to support snow and ice in Orchard Park.

[Since1981]

BUF gets a sh#t ton of snow, wind. Seriously, if you haven’t traveled, you’d not realize. German snows rarely and snow a couple weeks. Buffalo has to build much more strength into coverings. but Munich look is a good goal. 

[SoCal Deek]

26 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Don't confuse irrational ranters with facts.

 

A friend of mine asked my wife to be a partner to such a business so he could qualify for set aside business.

Exactly 

Yet another well intentioned liberal ‘fix’ that didn’t take into account that the market would simply adapt around it. Happens time and time and time again…but I have to hand it to them for trying. 

[brianthomas]

9 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

As others have said, in Munich, they actually get very little snowfall. It is rare for more than a couple inches to fall at a time. 

The type of roof/canopy that can be put on a Stadium in Munich is totally different than what would be required to support snow and ice in Orchard Park.

yeah we just don't have the technology to build a roof able to withstand snow.... sorry... "partial" roof.

In 2022... just can't do it yet. 🤣

But after decades of time where we have asked the question: 'what if we could build another stadium'... we finally have our opportunity to take all that we have learned & build a new stadium & what do we come up with?

We build an even smaller stadium right next to the old one. That pretty much sums up the bar to pass around here lol. An opportunity to do something big or beneficial for this community & region & we line up at the trough like pigs hungry to eat up the bs they feed us because we're what, just happy the team is staying?

Some will defend these designs to the death. Others like myself feel from the very start strategically speaking we already have failed. In size, scale, location, in its ability to generate revenue & pay back its costs outside of a handful of games each year? To being designed with the local weather in mind. One could literally go on & on with this failure of imagination & planning & process.

This whole thing is a big crock of bs imho, something only we would **** up to this degree.

[UConn James]

36 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

BUF gets a sh#t ton of snow, wind. Seriously, if you haven’t traveled, you’d not realize. German snows rarely and snow a couple weeks. Buffalo has to build much more strength into coverings. but Munich look is a good goal. 

Are heated roof elements not a thing that would melt snow on contact and be led through a series of drains?

 

Like the things to prevent ice dams that are shaped like VVVVV?

 

They’re installing heating elements underneath the field to help the grass and melt snow. Why not the roof?

 

I refuse to believe that it’s a problem that couldn’t be solved.

Edited November 13, 2022 by UConn James