Bills release new stadium renderings

[Just Jack]

15 hours ago, boyst said:

if they need to do anything they need to a get a light rail system or preferably a monorail.

 

this can shuttle from downtown points and points outside of the area to the game.

 

CLT has done good with this and the Panthers

14 hours ago, without a drought said:

At least the snow shovelers will still have a job.

 

Will they?  They’ve mentioned a radiant heat system. I wonder if it’s one of the embedded heating liquid in the concrete types.  If it is, they could just melt all the snow away. 

[LabattBlue]

I was firmly in the corner of a downtown fixed roof stadium, but I have no idea why it is still being brought up as if the decision is yet to be made. 
 

It’s over.  Move on.  

Edited October 29, 2022 by LabattBlue

[TH3]

11 hours ago, K-9 said:

Good lord, did everyone not realize that “wind confusion” is an ongoing joke whenever a reference is made to any aspect of the new stadium construction? 
 

That said, the 50 feet below grade field level at Highmark has always been a contributor to the wind issues in the stadium and a shallower lower bowl should help a ton in that regard. As will the more north/south orientation of the structure itself. 

Exactly what education and or professional experience leads you to this conclusion? Elevation has almost no relevance compared to the stadium design. I have been involved with several stadium wind studies.

[BRH]

49 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I was firmly in the corner of a downtown fixed roof stadium, but I have no idea why it is still being brought up as if the decision is yet to be made. 
 

It’s over.  Move on.  

 

Seriously.  It's like people can't read, weren't paying attention, or flat out refused to accept it.  Or thought that the delay in renderings somehow was due to negotiations over roof type and location.

 

 

I call them Stadium Deniers.

 

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

I was firmly in the corner of a downtown fixed roof stadium, but I have no idea why it is still being brought up as if the decision is yet to be made. 
 

It’s over.  Move on.  

 

So you're saying there still a chance!?! 

[Draconator]

26 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Exactly what education and or professional experience leads you to this conclusion? Elevation has almost no relevance compared to the stadium design. I have been involved with several stadium wind studies.

And?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 10/27/2022 at 8:20 AM, HOUSE said:

Who gets the job as superintendent of window washing?

This guy will be rich...

I’m hoping to lock up the Windex contract 

[aristocrat]

Are we going to have grass or turf?

[Einstein]

What is everyone’s thoughts about tiered troughs at the new stadium? 

 

https://innerloopblog.com/2022/10/28/buffalo-bills-release-renderings-of-future-mens-bathrooms-featuring-tiered-troughs/

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, TH3 said:

Exactly what education and or professional experience leads you to this conclusion? Elevation has almost no relevance compared to the stadium design. I have been involved with several stadium wind studies.

TH….I’m not a ‘wind designer’ but I’d imagine lowering the field would indeed have an impact on how the wind reacts inside the stadium especially when it’s been funneled through the canyon created by the grandstands…like at Rich Stadium. That however doesn’t appear to be the case with the new stadium design which has enclosed end zones. 

[Taro Nimbus]

7 hours ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

Tottenham Hotspur has a larger covering then that rendering. I hope it looks exactly like Hotspur compared to those pictures.  Also with how this team is built I was really hoping for a retractable roof so the weather wouldn't slow Josh and the Offense down. 

you really think they'll have the same offense 4 years from now?

[Augie]

49 minutes ago, Taro Nimbus said:

you really think they'll have the same offense 4 years from now?

 

As long as we have Josh as our QB, I expect something very similar to what we see on offense today. A scheme that leans heavily on throwing the ball, just like the league in general. So, my answer would be pretty much yes. 

[bobobonators]

1 hour ago, Taro Nimbus said:

you really think they'll have the same offense 4 years from now?

Theyll probably have a similar offense 10yrs from now. 
 

1. NFL teams aren’t reverting back to a focus on running the ball anytime soon. 
2. As long as Allen is in his prime id fully expect and hope for an aerial

assault 

[Augie]

I was expecting something more like this, so I’m happy.  😋

 

https://jmanphoto.com/products/war-memorial-stadium-the-rock-pile-buffalo-ny

 

This almost looks like Green Bay with a stadium surrounded by residential houses. 

 

I’m actually trying to find some good artwork for the man cave showing the Rockpile. I can find those old programs covers to go with the rest of it. Those are iconic images. I hope to have a collection of all three stadiums represented, even if one is a rendering for a while. 

[SoCal Deek]

43 minutes ago, Augie said:

I was expecting something more like this, so I’m happy.  😋

 

https://jmanphoto.com/products/war-memorial-stadium-the-rock-pile-buffalo-ny

 

This almost looks like Green Bay with a stadium surrounded by residential houses. 

 

I’m actually trying to find some good artwork for the man cave showing the Rockpile. I can find those old programs covers to go with the rest of it. Those are iconic images. I hope to have a collection of all three stadiums represented, even if one is a rendering for a while. 

Thanks for sharing! It’s truly amazing how these facilities have evolved through the last century. The Bills three stadiums are excellent examples of all three major eras….although Rich Stadium being a football only stadium thankfully avoided the anonymous multi-purpose era of the early 70s.  If you go to England you’ll see that the majority of their soccer stadiums are actually still located on their original grounds, in the middle of a little residential neighborhood, but now with modern grandstands looming up over what was once just a local park. Since everyone arrives via public transportation they don’t need the large parking lots we have. 

[K-9]

4 hours ago, TH3 said:

Exactly what education and or professional experience leads you to this conclusion? Elevation has almost no relevance compared to the stadium design. I have been involved with several stadium wind studies.

I don’t have formal education or professional experience in the field. But I know people who do and I think what they say on the matter makes a lot of sense and they’ve said the issue with the field at Highmark being 50 feet below grade is that it causes the winds to swirl due to one end of the stadium being perpendicular to the prevailing wind. And if you’ve ever been on the sidelines during a very windy game, you can appreciate just how impactful that swirling wind can be. At times, the flags on top of the uprights which are only 28.5 feet above the field aren’t moving at all while those on the sideline are getting whipped by the swirling wind. A shallower bowl simply offers more room for the wind to exit. And as I mentioned previously, the more north/south orientation of the new stadium will eliminate one end of the field being perpendicular to the prevailing wind. 
 

The wind in Orchard Park will never have been so confused when the new stadium is built. 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks for sharing! It’s truly amazing how these facilities have evolved through the last century. The Bills three stadiums are excellent examples of all three major eras….although Rich Stadium being a football only stadium thankfully avoided the anonymous multi-purpose era of the early 70s.  If you go to England you’ll see that the majority of their soccer stadiums are actually still located on their original grounds, in the middle of a little residential neighborhood, but now with modern grandstands looming up over what was once just a local park. Since everyone arrives via public transportation they don’t need the large parking lots we have. 

 

I’d love matching artwork for each stadium, but part of me feels like the Rockpile should look like a cave drawing, The Ralph could be a normal poster, and the new stadium should be a hologram!  My how things have changed!!! 

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

TH….I’m not a ‘wind designer’ but I’d imagine lowering the field would indeed have an impact on how the wind reacts inside the stadium especially when it’s been funneled through the canyon created by the grandstands…like at Rich Stadium. That however doesn’t appear to be the case with the new stadium design which has enclosed end zones. 

 

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

I don’t have formal education or professional experience in the field. But I know people who do and I think what they say on the matter makes a lot of sense and they’ve said the issue with the field at Highmark being 50 feet below grade is that it causes the winds to swirl due to one end of the stadium being perpendicular to the prevailing wind. And if you’ve ever been on the sidelines during a very windy game, you can appreciate just how impactful that swirling wind can be. At times, the flags on top of the uprights which are only 28.5 feet above the field aren’t moving at all while those on the sideline are getting whipped by the swirling wind. A shallower bowl simply offers more room for the wind to exit. And as I mentioned previously, the more north/south orientation of the new stadium will eliminate one end of the field being perpendicular to the prevailing wind. 
 

The wind in Orchard Park will never have been so confused when the new stadium is built. 

I'm not @TH3 but I'll answer that I think it's completely on the design of the stadium, not the elevation. Wind flows at all elevations. Even if the Ralph was surface level, the design of the stadium would still funnel and swirl the wind.

[phypon]

Every time I see this post title the only thing that jumps out at me is "Bills release...".  I'm like: "Who got released???  Oh...."  

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

 

I'm not @TH3 but I'll answer that I think it's completely on the design of the stadium, not the elevation. Wind flows at all elevations. Even if the Ralph was surface level, the design of the stadium would still funnel and swirl the wind.

I’m not sure that’s correct. The reason an airplane has lift is because of the shape of the wing. The ground depression at field level will have an impact on how the wind reacts as it moves across the ground surface. The shape of the surrounding grandstands can of course either concentrate or dissipate that flow. 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure that’s correct. The reason an airplane has lift is because of the shape of the wing. The ground depression at field level will have an impact on how the wind reacts as it moves across the ground surface. The shape of the surrounding grandstands can of course either concentrate or dissipate that flow. 

Picture funneling water into bowl. Even if the water is funnelled in at the bottom of the bowl, it's still gonna swirl around the bowl. The bowl shape and having one opening is all that matters. Not the elevation.

[SoCal Deek]

19 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Picture funneling water into bowl. Even if the water is funnelled in at the bottom of the bowl, it's still gonna swirl around the bowl. The bowl shape and having one opening is all that matters. Not the elevation.

As I mentioned, I’m no a wind expert…but it would seem that having a depression in a large flat surface would cause a disruption in the flow. Not an increase or concentration, but a disruption or ripple-like turbulence. No? 

[K-9]

29 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure that’s correct. The reason an airplane has lift is because of the shape of the wing. The ground depression at field level will have an impact on how the wind reacts as it moves across the ground surface. The shape of the surrounding grandstands can of course either concentrate or dissipate that flow. 

With one end of the current stadium being perpendicular to the prevailing wind, more wind concentrates or “collects” and swirls when trapped within the bowl. A shallower bowl “collects” less wind. At least that’s how a couple engineers explained it to me. 

[K-9]

30 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Picture funneling water into bowl. Even if the water is funnelled in at the bottom of the bowl, it's still gonna swirl around the bowl. The bowl shape and having one opening is all that matters. Not the elevation.

But the depth of the bowl will affect the flow and that’s what we are talking about; the deep 50 foot below grade field level. I assume your bowl is oval shaped like the stadium? Now, imagine if that funneled flow of water into that oval shaped bowl hits smack dab against the far wall of the bowl that’s directly perpendicular to it. What happens to that water after it hits that perpendicular side of the bowl? 
 

[Marvin]

Wasn't this supposed to be angled relative to the main drive to look like the Vince Lombardi trophy from the air?

[LeGOATski]

47 minutes ago, K-9 said:

But the depth of the bowl will affect the flow and that’s what we are talking about; the deep 50 foot below grade field level. I assume your bowl is oval shaped like the stadium? Now, imagine if that funneled flow of water into that oval shaped bowl hits smack dab against the far wall of the bowl that’s directly perpendicular to it. What happens to that water after it hits that perpendicular side of the bowl? 
 

The wind's hitting the side of the bowl, either way. There's no escape route. That's got nothing to do with depth. Maybe you're saying there's two levels of wind flowing different directions due to the bowl? I guess I can see that.

[TH3]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

TH….I’m not a ‘wind designer’ but I’d imagine lowering the field would indeed have an impact on how the wind reacts inside the stadium especially when it’s been funneled through the canyon created by the grandstands…like at Rich Stadium. That however doesn’t appear to be the case with the new stadium design which has enclosed end zones. 

Criminy….I was project manager for Birdair back in the day and was a PM for stadia projects in China, Europe, and Reliant Stadium - Houston. Every stadium will have computer wind model and a 3D scale wind tunnel test done by a firm in Toronto. These tests are obviously integral for stadia design….especially when a roof is involved. The elevation of the field relative to existing grade has zero ultimate bearing….it’s all about the total elevation and shape of the stadium. When any roof is part of the design …the wind load is typically governing for the roof…in uplift. I am sure the architects and engineers optimized the shape of the roof and orientation to minimize wind on the field..

Edited October 29, 2022 by TH3

[SoCal Deek]

33 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Criminy….I was project manager for Birdair back in the day and was a PM for stadia projects in China, Europe, and Reliant Stadium - Houston. Every stadium will have computer wind model and a 3D scale wind tunnel test done by a firm in Toronto. These tests are obviously integral for stadia design….especially when a roof is involved. The elevation of the field relative to existing grade has zero ultimate bearing….it’s all about the total elevation and shape of the stadium. When any roof is part of the design …the wind load is typically governing for the roof…in uplift. I am sure the architects and engineers optimized the shape of the roof and orientation to minimize wind on the field..

TH3….relax. I am an architect. I’m not suggesting it will be an issue. I’m agreeing with you that it can be designed around. (My point is that if you have a wide open plane of ground, a depression (valley, gulley, or crater) does effect the wind pattern, just as it does in a moving stream of water. 

[LeGOATski]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

TH3….relax. I am an architect. I’m not suggesting it will be an issue. I’m agreeing with you that it can be designed around. (My point is that if you have a wide open plane of ground, a depression (valley, gulley, or crater) does effect the wind pattern, just as it does in a moving stream of water. 

I think what he's getting at is that it's the design of the stadium around it. The elevation of the bowl doesn't matter. The current stadium has wind issues because the structure around the bowl is short and open on one end.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

I think what he's getting at is that it's the design of the stadium around it. The elevation of the bowl doesn't matter. The current stadium has wind issues because the structure around the bowl is short and open on one end.

Excellent! Then we are ALL in agreement. 😉

[WotAGuy]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Excellent! Then we are ALL in agreement. 😉

Not so fast…….

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

36 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I think what he's getting at is that it's the design of the stadium around it. The elevation of the bowl doesn't matter. The current stadium has wind issues because the structure around the bowl is short and open on one end.

I agree that the design is the most important thing, but it seems like having the field at lower elevation that the ground would mean less wind at velocity hitting the sides of the stadium as the boundary layer effect of fluid dynamics creates slower speeds as you get closer to ground level.

Notice today how the flags at the top of the stadium will be out straight with whipping wind while on the field (or ground level outside) it isn't nearly that windy. 

 

[LeGOATski]

26 minutes ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

I agree that the design is the most important thing, but it seems like having the field at lower elevation that the ground would mean less wind at velocity hitting the sides of the stadium as the boundary layer effect of fluid dynamics creates slower speeds as you get closer to ground level.

Notice today how the flags at the top of the stadium will be out straight with whipping wind while on the field (or ground level outside) it isn't nearly that windy. 

 

True, but that's already factored into any scenario. When it's windy, it's windy. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

Umm... maybe we need @ExiledInIllinois to explain the winds and how the stadium is built affects that

[TH3]

17 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I think what he's getting at is that it's the design of the stadium around it. The elevation of the bowl doesn't matter. The current stadium has wind issues because the structure around the bowl is short and open on one end.

I think what I am getting at is a bunch of anonymous posters on a forum opining with great confidence on something they actually no little about.

[LeGOATski]

16 minutes ago, TH3 said:

I think what I am getting at is a bunch of anonymous posters on a forum opining with great confidence on something they actually no little about.

Pretty sure no one claimed to be experts. A bunch of posts in the vein of "I think it could be..."

 

You claimed to have expertise, but at the same time you just seem to be "that guy." We get a lot of your type, too.

 

Also, it's "know" not "no"

[Punching Bag]

On 10/29/2022 at 9:43 AM, Motorin' said:

 

So you're saying there still a chance!?! 

 

Yes you win a mega-jackpot and donate it for the stadium.

[billsfan89]

23 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks for sharing! It’s truly amazing how these facilities have evolved through the last century. The Bills three stadiums are excellent examples of all three major eras….although Rich Stadium being a football only stadium thankfully avoided the anonymous multi-purpose era of the early 70s.  If you go to England you’ll see that the majority of their soccer stadiums are actually still located on their original grounds, in the middle of a little residential neighborhood, but now with modern grandstands looming up over what was once just a local park. Since everyone arrives via public transportation they don’t need the large parking lots we have. 

One thing I like about MSG and Barclays in NYC is that there is no parking lot or huge parking garage. People take the train or a combo of the bus or train to the games. Not to veer too far off topic but I wish more stadiums/arenas would have easy public transportation. 

[Motorin']

19 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Yes you win a mega-jackpot and donate it for the stadium.

 

If I win the mega-jackpot I'd be very happy to donate the winnings to cover the cost of a dome, in return for 33% ownership of the Bills. Deal Terry? 

[LeGOATski]

14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

One thing I like about MSG and Barclays in NYC is that there is no parking lot or huge parking garage. People take the train or a combo of the bus or train to the games. Not to veer too far off topic but I wish more stadiums/arenas would have easy public transportation. 

It's a nice feature of city life