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Poor coaching by McDermott is becoming a theme


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7 minutes ago, gomper said:

His game management is horrible.  I know they hired someone last season to help, but that hasn't worked so far. They could have won this game. Hopefully it doesn't bite them like the Jacksonville loss did last. Plenty of blame to go around.  It starts at the top. Come January, he has to be better.  Unacceptable for a team this talented. 

If he can't be good enough now...what makes you think there's any chance he's better in January? There's also the numerous failures these past few seasons as well

 

If we make it to and win the Super Bowl...luck will have been on our side. It won't be due to the coach making the right decisions.

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16 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

If he can't be good enough now...what makes you think there's any chance he's better in January? There's also the numerous failures these past few seasons as well

 

If we make it to and win the Super Bowl...luck will have been on our side. It won't be due to the coach making the right decisions.

This I agree with. I'm just thinking that choking time and again might cajole him into better decisions in the moment down the road. 

 

The ironic part, for all his culture building, they may win it inspite of him. Levy's teams couldn't do it, maybe this one will.

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1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Then we better start drafting OL in the first 3 rounds rather than incessantly draft defensive players over olineman. We still struggle to run block and Josh was running for his life yesterday. 

 

People trash @ScottLaw and others like me for his takes, but some are coming around. No sense having a Bugatti engine behind a Ford Focus transmission and chassis. 5 years in and we have scrap heap parts at 3-4 OL positions. Dawkins is the only stud on OL. The lack of any running game should be an obvious sign to having a crap OL. Allen is amazing, but even he can not do it alone. Give the man some damned help.

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It’s interesting how when we lose it’s about poor coaching but when we win I rarely see a coaching thread?

 

Listen I get it, coaching made mistakes but overall they make a lot more right decisions. 
 

For whatever reason we’re on a stretch for losing close games. Players and coaches have made mistakes in these close games. 

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I’m sure this was all already covered. Just wanna say he had the perfect gameplay to mask the injuries on D. Play ball control. Eat up tons of clock. It all would have worked if not for a few miscues in the red zone/that horrid second series that led to the first Miami TD.

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42 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’ve been touting this since the off-season…. Never  liked their approach/borderline negligence to the offense… And then trolled the past two weeks by the likes of @eballand @Royale with Cheese….. They still can’t run the ball, receivers still struggle to get separation and YAC, and now Tanner Gentry may get some meaningful snaps and Bobby Hart is set to start next week.😅

 

Just crossing my fingers Josh gets through the season with all the heavy lifting and is still performing at a high level come playoff time. 


Kumerow really hurt us out there when he had to fill in.  Did he do anything?  
 

How good are Rams WR beyond the 5 string?  The Chiefs?  Probably starter quality right?  Kumerow is our 5th option….

 

We don’t struggle to get separation.  Allen isn’t fitting tight balls on every throw.  We have open WR a lot.  McKenzie was pretty open in the endzone on 4th down….

 

Yeah we can’t run the ball, I can still see that.

 

You are a believer that you shouldn’t earn positions in camp if you perform.  Hart had a good camp and earned a back up spot.  He’s not a starter, he’s a back up.  Lets see if it translates in a game IF he plays.  Bates is a right guard and I believe Hart was playing LG in camp.

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I wont knock any poster for not liking a player or coach and I know we just had a heart breaking loss but lets look back to the times before McDermott got here, it was some dark times. No coach is perfect but to put all of the blame on McDermott is ridiculous, like the players say "we didn't make enough plays to win" and it's usually the truth imo. 

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7 hours ago, Wraith said:

 

This talking point I keep hearing is ridiculous and shows a complete lack of critical thinking. Winning a lot of games by a big margin and losing a few games by a small margin is what good teams do. It is how sports work. Not to mention the Bills actually won their share of close games last year too:

 

- Week 8: Bills were up 6 to Miami with under 4 minutes to go. Does not count to you because they took care of business and won by 15.

- Week 16: Bills were up 5 to New England with under 3 minutes to go. Does not count to you because of that crazy drive to seal the game and division lead.

- Week 18: Bills were up 3 to New York Jets with under 9 minutes to go. Ignored because they took over the game in the final minutes and pulled away.

 

Are we supposed to take serious your argument that the Bills would have been a better team if the offense didn't come through late to pull away in those games and instead they hung on by fewer points? It is nonsense.

 

 

I'd like to add on 7-7 at halftime against the Rams. What we did to them in the 2nd half was a clinic in excellent coaching. Like you point out close games aren't only defined by the final score.

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12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’d guess they’ll be close to last in YAC yet again… and the offensive line is still a problem(even before the injuries) as it was for much of last year…. But that’s what happens when you essentially do the bare minimum to make it better… Perhaps Spencer Brown gets better throughout the season and learns how to pass block because he sucks at it like most of last season…. And Saffold looks old and washed. 

 

Hart blows. 


Yeah man.  We haven’t been able to score the last few years.  Its been a real problem.

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11 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

They’re definitely not without fault! I didn’t like Frazier’s 3rd and 22 call, rushing 3 and dropping 8 into coverage - but only 2 inexperienced safeties deep. If you go back and look at the replay, there were no corners back to help and two receivers breaking open deep. If Tua wanted to hold the ball even longer, he could’ve had a guaranteed TD with the way the Bills D was split. I just wish Frazier would STOP with the conservative play calling. It’s proven time and time again to give up big plays in crucial moments. As I said, they’re not a poorly coached team, but that doesn’t mean they don’t make boneheaded play calls from time to time.

 

This I agree with.  Get pressure on Tua and force him to throw short.  Trust your guys to make a tackle within 22 damn yards.

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53 minutes ago, syhuang said:


on a related note, is there a way to hide threads created by certain users? 

Yes-  mouse over their name and right click will bring up the option iirc.  I’m on mobile 99.9% of the time.  Only on desktop to use the ignore function.  

52 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:


Yeah man.  We haven’t been able to score the last few years.  Its been a real problem.

We have to keep up with the chiefs.  The team that scored 17 vs the 0-1-1 colts.  

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50 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

This I agree with.  Get pressure on Tua and force him to throw short.  Trust your guys to make a tackle within 22 damn yards.

There's a reason Leslie will probably never get hired as a HC.  Besides his obvious ultra conservative style, his obsession with "prevent" in long yardage situations has burned this team multiple times. 13 seconds was classic Frazier, as was 3rd & 22. He hates to blitz even though he has above avg DE pass rushers everywhere. When 4 of the 8 you drop in coverage are green, put your faith in the Dline Sean drafted.  It was an insanely stupid call. 

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2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There's a reason Leslie will probably never get hired as a HC.  Besides his obvious ultra conservative style, his obsession with "prevent" in long yardage situations has burned this team multiple times. 13 seconds was classic Frazier, as was 3rd & 22. He hates to blitz even though he has above avg DE pass rushers everywhere. When 4 of the 8 you drop in coverage are green, put your faith in the Dline Sean drafted.  It was an insanely stupid call. 

I have to admit that third and 22 conversion had me cussing at my TV

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9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There's a reason Leslie will probably never get hired as a HC.  Besides his obvious ultra conservative style, his obsession with "prevent" in long yardage situations has burned this team multiple times. 13 seconds was classic Frazier, as was 3rd & 22. He hates to blitz even though he has above avg DE pass rushers everywhere. When 4 of the 8 you drop in coverage are green, put your faith in the Dline Sean drafted.  It was an insanely stupid call. 

Stretches back to the 3rd and 18 the Texans converted in the playoffs in OT. Frazier had the defense SO FAR BACK that when Watson threw the ball and the guy caught it after 7-8 yards, he ran untouched until he reached the first down marker. Imagine having your players so far back that no one is in position to tackle a guy until he picks up 19 yards? You’d think he learn, but 13 seconds and now 3rd and 22 says he hasn’t.

 

Bills at Texans 2019 Playoffs (17:00 min mark)

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On 9/25/2022 at 3:51 PM, FieldGeneral said:

0-7 in close games since last season isn't good. 

Overrated stat. The Bills are winning at a .650 the past 3 seasons. They are a serious playoff machine. Who cares if they lose a close game now and then when they’re winning way more than they lose. They win big and never get blown out even when they lose they are in it. That’s the underlying message. In fact I’d bet that if someone took a look at our wins over the past few years they’d see a close game going into the late stages of the game(4th Q on) and see a one score game. That is until the Bills blow up in the 4th and make it a multiple score win. Does that not qualify? Would a close game mean 1 score going to the two minute warning? What about JA being Mr 4th quarter 2 years ago? Most people would complain that they should’ve put the game away earlier. Now they do and that is not enough. Try watching golf it might help you relax 

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4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There's a reason Leslie will probably never get hired as a HC.  Besides his obvious ultra conservative style, his obsession with "prevent" in long yardage situations has burned this team multiple times. 13 seconds was classic Frazier, as was 3rd & 22. He hates to blitz even though he has above avg DE pass rushers everywhere. When 4 of the 8 you drop in coverage are green, put your faith in the Dline Sean drafted.  It was an insanely stupid call. 

Nothing more infuriating on Sunday than seeing the Bills still have not learned from 13 seconds.  The coaching staff is stubborn and stuck in their ways and not progressing. 

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I wanted to post Travis Kelces 2 point conversion. 

 

Catch or no catch ? Notice he even drops it at the end.  

 

Those that say the challenge absolutely wouldn't have succeeded are wrong. We just don't know for sure.

 

My apologies I could not figure out how to share the video directly 

 

https://www.chiefs.com/video/two-points-patrick-mahomes-finds-travis-kelce-on-two-point-conversion

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Blaming coaching is the absolute laziest take a sports fan can have.

 

Defensive backs fail to knock the ball down on a Hail Mary?  It's the fault of the coaches!

Receiver jukes around instead of quickly dropping to the ground with 9 seconds left?  It's the fault of the coaches!

Challenge a play that probably won't get overturned?  It's the fault of the head coach!

Don't challenge a play that probably won't get overturned?  It's the fault of the head coach!

 

Every time a play call doesn't work... they were being too conservative.  Or too aggressive.  Or too predictable.  Or they should have just stuck with what they usually do best.  The last two weeks, everyone was praising us and saying we are totally unstoppable because of #17.  This week we are clueless idiots because we rely too much on Josh Allen carrying the offense.  If a player commits a penalty or makes a mistake... it's always because the coach didn't have them prepared or focused.  Because of course, it's the coach's job to remind the millionaire who has been playing football his entire life not to jump offside or hold on a crucial drive.

 

Now the armchair geniuses are criticizing Leslie Frazier for the 3rd-22.  Because he didn't bring enough pressure.  Even though the Bills had the highest pressure rate in the entire NFL with hardly any blitzes through two weeks AND had a totally inexperienced secondary.  Of course if he blitzed and got burned, we would be hearing how stupid he was to leave our backup DBs alone against the fastest WRs in the league on such a crucial play.  I'm even reading some comparisons to 13 seconds, even though this time we got beat over the top... which is exactly the opposite of what happened in the playoffs.

 

Edited by mjt328
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2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Blaming coaching is the absolute laziest take a sports fan can have.

 

Defensive backs fail to knock the ball down on a Hail Mary?  It's the fault of the coaches!

Receiver jukes around instead of quickly dropping to the ground with 9 seconds left?  It's the fault of the coaches!

Challenge a play that probably won't get overturned?  It's the fault of the head coach!

Don't challenge a play that probably won't get overturned?  It's the fault of the head coach!

 

Every time a play call doesn't work... they were being too conservative.  Or too aggressive.  Or too predictable.  Or they should have just stuck with what they usually do best.  The last two weeks, everyone was praising us and saying we are totally unstoppable because of #17.  This week we are clueless idiots because we rely too much on Josh Allen carrying the offense.  If a player commits a penalty or makes a mistake... it's always because the coach didn't have them prepared or focused.  Because of course, it's the coach's job to remind the millionaire who has been playing football his entire life not to jump offside or hold on a crucial drive.

 

Now the armchair geniuses are criticizing Leslie Frazier for the 3rd-22.  Because he didn't bring enough pressure.  Even though the Bills had the highest pressure rate in the entire NFL with hardly any blitzes through two weeks AND had a totally inexperienced secondary.  Of course if he blitzed and got burned, we would be hearing how stupid he was to leave our backup DBs alone against the fastest WRs in the league on such a crucial play.  I'm even reading some comparisons to 13 seconds, even though this time we got beat over the top... which is exactly the opposite of what happened in the playoffs.

 

Your examples could be used as examples of poor coaching.  

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On 9/26/2022 at 5:05 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Beane has built a talented roster, no doubt. But I think the continued issues on the offensive line are absolutely a Beane thing. In 4 of our last 7 defeats the offense has had the ball at the end in Josh Allen's hands with a chance to win the game - Tennessee, Jacksonville, New England and yesterday (you could even add Tampa in there as a touchdown on that final drive instead of a FG wins us the game) - and we haven't got it done on any of those occasions.

  • In Tennessee the offensive line got blown up on the sneak;
  • In Jacksonville Allen was under duress the entire drive and sacked on the final 3rd down knocking us out of FG range;
  • Against the Pats we turned 1st and 10 at the NE 13 into 3rd and 14 with a false start and then Allen was harassed on both 3rd and 4th down causing incompletions;
  • Yesterday Allen was under duress that entire drive and then Quessenberry took a holding penalty that knocked us out of FG range. 

In the NFL there are going to be close games. It is the nature of parity. The Bills have an exceptional record of blowing teams out but when you have Josh Allen and in a close game he has the ball last that, frankly, is all you can wish for. That we haven't got it done on so many occasions (only the Colts and the Chiefs playoff game of our last 7 losses as the offense not had a chance at the end of the game to win it for us) is a real outlier for a team with an elite QB. And I'm afraid the pattern there is very clear. With all the chips in the middle of the table in those end of game situations we suffer protection breakdown after protection breakdown. 

 

You can put that on coaching if you like. But two OCs, two OL coaches... repeating pattern. The blocking ain't up to snuff. 

 

 

Almost every single team on 3rd and 22 with an inexperienced secondary is playing coverage. Okay, it didn't work, Jaquan got burned. I get it. But Leslie Frazier did an excellent job with the pieces he had yesterday. He put his young players in position to make the most of what they had. They give up one play and everyone goes mad about the playcall. 

 

And the reason Leslie Frazier is not a true consideration for a head coach job is because he has had his shot, is in his 60s and is a defensive guy when the league is going to offense. I wouldn't hire him as a HC either. But as a DC? He is one of the best in the business. 

 

 

 

 

Im gonna disagree here, as a former coach there are 2 ways to coach in that situation, aggressive or safe, McD and Frazier always choose safe, if you depleted at the back end of your defense you don't make them make the play, they should have blitz which would have made TUA get rid of the ball quicker most likely a slant or a out pattern is what he would had to throw, our true strength on this defense is the d-line and we protect it.. we blitzed 1 time and TUA got sacked in a hurry...

 

 we did the same thing against KC with 13 seconds left, rushed 3 and gave the QB time, thats the key time, the reason we lost Sunday was because Allen was getting blitzed on every play, it disrupted his throws and it showed, the were aggressive and won we play safe on defense...and lost...      

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1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Your examples could be used as examples of poor coaching.  

 

That's why it's such a lazy take.

People literally use everything as an example of poor coaching.

 

If players make mistakes.  They weren't focused, and it's the coaches fault.

If players just play bad.  They weren't prepared, and it's the coaches fault.

Any play call that doesn't work is stupid, and they should have done the opposite thing.

 

 

Our defense made Tyreek Hill invisible on Sunday and pretty much shut-down the Dolphins offense, with a secondary consisting of rookies Kaiir Elam, Christian Benford and Ja'marcus Ingram at cornerback, along with Jaquan Johnson and Damar Hamlin at safety.  Everyone figured they would put up 30+ on us, and they needed a strip-sack to hit 21.  It was a very impressive performance.  But the only thing I'm reading is the one play where we got burned.  Because like I said... Lezlie Frazier should have just done the opposite thing of what he did.  

 

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2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

That's why it's such a lazy take.

People literally use everything as an example of poor coaching.

 

If players make mistakes.  They weren't focused, and it's the coaches fault.

If players just play bad.  They weren't prepared, and it's the coaches fault.

Any play call that doesn't work is stupid, and they should have done the opposite thing.

 

 

Our defense made Tyreek Hill invisible on Sunday and pretty much shut-down the Dolphins offense, with a secondary consisting of rookies Kaiir Elam, Christian Benford and Ja'marcus Ingram at cornerback, along with Jaquan Johnson and Damar Hamlin at safety.  Everyone figured they would put up 30+ on us, and they needed a strip-sack to hit 21.  It was a very impressive performance.  But the only thing I'm reading is the one play where we got burned.  Because like I said... Lezlie Frazier should have just done the opposite thing of what he did.  

 

again gonna have to disagree here, our defense didn't shut anyone down, the offense kept there offense off the feild  40 minutes of possession is why Hill looked like *****.. it wasn't the defense that shut them down. 

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6 minutes ago, cas22 said:

 

 

 

 

Im gonna disagree here, as a former coach there are 2 ways to coach in that situation, aggressive or safe, McD and Frazier always choose safe, if you depleted at the back end of your defense you don't make them make the play, they should have blitz which would have made TUA get rid of the ball quicker most likely a slant or a out pattern is what he would had to throw, our true strength on this defense is the d-line and we protect it.. we blitzed 1 time and TUA got sacked in a hurry...

 

 we did the same thing against KC with 13 seconds left, rushed 3 and gave the QB time, thats the key time, the reason we lost Sunday was because Allen was getting blitzed on every play, it disrupted his throws and it showed, the were aggressive and won we play safe on defense...and lost...      

 

This.  They’ve spent what, a quarter billion dollars on their defensive line and they take them off the field for the most important third down of the game?  McD and Frazier hiding under their blankets during key moments in the game, it’s tough to see it keep happening.  

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4 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

#1 in point differential last season, #5 in 2020 and shaping up for a top 5 finish this season. Horrible coach I tell ya, HORRIBLE

 

Hes not calling plays or hiring the personnel.

 

What he IS doing is making in game decisions and hes making too many poor ones for a superbowl contender.

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34 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Now the armchair geniuses are criticizing Leslie Frazier for the 3rd-22.  Because he didn't bring enough pressure.  Even though the Bills had the highest pressure rate in the entire NFL with hardly any blitzes through two weeks AND had a totally inexperienced secondary.  Of course if he blitzed and got burned, we would be hearing how stupid he was to leave our backup DBs alone against the fastest WRs in the league on such a crucial play.  I'm even reading some comparisons to 13 seconds, even though this time we got beat over the top... which is exactly the opposite of what happened in the playoffs.

 

 

I am considered I think as a defender of coaching and a blamer of player's execution. But believe me when I say if he had blitzed on that play and got beat I'd have been killing (figuratively of course) him for it. When we gave up the game winner in Tampa on a stupid blitz in overtime I absolutely put that on Leslie Frazier. It was a stupid call on a 3rd and 3 on their side of the field when they were still not even in FG range without your best corner on the field. 

 

On 3rd and 22 in the NFL you almost always play coverage. When you throw in an inexperienced secondary who by that point had precisely ONE NFL start among four of them prior to the game you absolutely do what you can to protect them in front. What happened on that play is the Dolphins ran a good cover 2 beater, Jaquan Johnson hesitated, gave up inside leverage and the Dolphins got a really fast guy up the seam and made a play. The Bills actually dropped Rousseau almost into Tremaine's position so that Tremaine could drop deeper like an old Tampa 2 MLB and defend the sticks. The other guys get paid too, the Dolphins made a good play and exposed two inexperienced safeties. It happens. It's football. 

 

But most football fans play Madden and love blitzing. So when they see a defense play coverage and give up a play they flip out. 

 

17 minutes ago, cas22 said:

Im gonna disagree here, as a former coach there are 2 ways to coach in that situation, aggressive or safe, McD and Frazier always choose safe, if you depleted at the back end of your defense you don't make them make the play, they should have blitz which would have made TUA get rid of the ball quicker most likely a slant or a out pattern is what he would had to throw, our true strength on this defense is the d-line and we protect it.. we blitzed 1 time and TUA got sacked in a hurry...

 

 we did the same thing against KC with 13 seconds left, rushed 3 and gave the QB time, thats the key time, the reason we lost Sunday was because Allen was getting blitzed on every play, it disrupted his throws and it showed, the were aggressive and won we play safe on defense...and lost...      

 

I absolutely, 100%, utterly and totally disagree. A blitz there would have been a horrible call. Aggressive does not always = better. 

Edited by GunnerBill
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It was 2nd and 1 from the Miami 6,  2:40 remaining and Motor plowed ahead for 4.

 

1st and goal from the Miami 2,   2:36 remaining and Motor plowed ahead for 1.

 

Two minute warning, 2nd and goal from inside the Miami 1, and the play call is not Motor plowing ahead.  It's Allen going backwards taking a 1 yard loss.

 

An exhausted Allen throws 2 incomplete passes and that's a blown opportunity that hopefully won't cost the Bills the 1 seed.

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14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am considered I think as a defender of coaching and a blamer of player's execution. But believe me when I say if he had blitzed on that play and got beat I'd have been killing (figuratively of course) him for it. When we gave up the game winner in Tampa on a stupid blitz in overtime I absolutely put that on Leslie Frazier. It was a stupid call on a 3rd and 3 on their side of the field when they were still not even in FG range without your best corner on the field. 

 

On 3rd and 22 in the NFL you almost always play coverage. When you throw in an inexperienced secondary who by that point had precisely ONE NFL start among four of them prior to the game you absolutely do what you can to protect them in front. What happened on that play is the Dolphins ran a good cover 2 beater, Jaquan Johnson hesitated, gave up inside leverage and the Dolphins got a really fast guy up the seam and made a play. The Bills actually dropped Rousseau almost into Tremaine's position so that Tremaine could drop deeper like an old Tampa 2 MLB and defend the sticks. The other guys get paid too, the Dolphins made a good play and exposed two inexperienced safeties. It happens. It's football. 

 

But most football fans play Madden and love blitzing. So when they see a defense play coverage and give up a play they flip out. 

 

 

I absolutely, 100%, utterly and totally disagree. A blitz there would have been a horrible call. Aggressive does not always = better. 


I don’t think they should’ve blitzed but rushing 3 was a mistake.

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8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I don’t think they should’ve blitzed but rushing 3 was a mistake.

 

Meh. I understand the call. They wanted the flood the zones and allow Tremaine to defend the sticks. It didn't work and it is fair you can second guess any playcall that didn't work, of course you can. You want all of those back. But I didn't think it was the wrong call at the time. The Dolphins made a play against inexperienced players. It happens. 

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14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am considered I think as a defender of coaching and a blamer of player's execution. But believe me when I say if he had blitzed on that play and got beat I'd have been killing (figuratively of course) him for it. When we gave up the game winner in Tampa on a stupid blitz in overtime I absolutely put that on Leslie Frazier. It was a stupid call on a 3rd and 3 on their side of the field when they were still not even in FG range without your best corner on the field. 

 

On 3rd and 22 in the NFL you almost always play coverage. When you throw in an inexperienced secondary who by that point had precisely ONE NFL start among four of them prior to the game you absolutely do what you can to protect them in front. What happened on that play is the Dolphins ran a good cover 2 beater, Jaquan Johnson hesitated, gave up inside leverage and the Dolphins got a really fast guy up the seam and made a play. The Bills actually dropped Rousseau almost into Tremaine's position so that Tremaine could drop deeper like an old Tampa 2 MLB and defend the sticks. The other guys get paid too, the Dolphins made a good play and exposed two inexperienced safeties. It happens. It's football. 

 

 

A coaching staff should be judged on the overall body of work.  

Not cherry-picking certain plays that succeeded, and others that didn't.  All while looking in 20/20 hindsight.

 

Part of play-calling is knowing your own strengths/weaknesses.  Part is knowing your opponent's strengths/weaknesses.  Part is knowing the game situation.  Part is trying to outsmart the guy on the other sideline.  It's not an exact science.  Sometimes you guess wrong, and the other team makes a play.  

 

As a whole, Sean McDermott/Leslie Frazier have fielded a Top 5 defense for 4 straight seasons.  During that span, the Bills have had arguably the best past defense in the entire NFL.  They have turned UDFA and late round picks into solid CBs, and no-name free agent signings into All-Pros.  We are lucky to have them.

 

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