Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 (edited) Rousseau, Epenesa, and Basham have all taken a big leap forward this season. Von's presence is a absolutely a major factor Edited September 21, 2022 by Allen2Diggs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: He can and so can Groot as he showed last night.... but you'd be down to one true starting level DT on the road in a place where you want to rotate because of conditions. That is not the end of the world but it is less than ideal. Agree, but I would add that so far, the Miami RBs are just as potent in the check down/screen passes as actually running the ball. The RBs have averaged 62 yards in their first 2 games. Pass rushing and quickness might be more important this Sunday. Edmonds and Mostert are both smaller, quicker RBs. They are the opposite of a Henry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 50 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: Sorta disagree here, in that I think a better analogy is Von Miller is to this D what Stefon Diggs is to this O. Brought in from outside and instantly elevated the competitiveness and expectations of those around them. Allen, and the QB position in general, just doesn't have a comp on the defensive side. Not my view. On O its much more Alan than Diggs who elevates the competitiveness and expectations of those around him (including Digg’s). I see Von Miller as having that sort of influence on the D., inspiring his teammates, bringing the young ones along, instilling confidence etc…The fact that neither Diggs or Miller are home grown may be something that they have in common but that is to me irrelevant to the analysis. Diggs is a top shelf # 1 and in the discussion of the best right now. But I’ve got to say that for all the deserved kudos he got the laser and the long ball yesterday were the real story on those TDs. Many good WRs could have made those catches. Fewer QBs can make either of those throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 10 hours ago, starrymessenger said: Von Miller is to this D what Allen is to the O. They raise everybody’s game. Few players can do that. Bills have two. Honestly, I think it’s 3, Diggs has had such an impact on the WRs it’s nuts. 11 minutes ago, starrymessenger said: Not my view. On O its much more Alan than Diggs who elevates the competitiveness and expectations of those around him (including Digg’s). I see Von Miller as having that sort of influence on the D., inspiring his teammates, bringing the young ones along, instilling confidence etc…The fact that neither Diggs or Miller are home grown may be something that they have in common but that is to me irrelevant to the analysis. Diggs is a top shelf # 1 and in the discussion of the best right now. But I’ve got to say that for all the deserved kudos he got the laser and the long ball yesterday were the real story on those TDs. Many good WRs could have made those catches. Fewer QBs can make either of those throws. I see where you are coming from and I do agree Allen elevates the entire O. I still recall the massive jump from the WRs we saw once Diggs entered the room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 2 hours ago, starrymessenger said: Not my view. On O its much more Alan than Diggs who elevates the competitiveness and expectations of those around him (including Digg’s). I see Von Miller as having that sort of influence on the D., inspiring his teammates, bringing the young ones along, instilling confidence etc…The fact that neither Diggs or Miller are home grown may be something that they have in common but that is to me irrelevant to the analysis. Diggs is a top shelf # 1 and in the discussion of the best right now. But I’ve got to say that for all the deserved kudos he got the laser and the long ball yesterday were the real story on those TDs. Many good WRs could have made those catches. Fewer QBs can make either of those throws. Of course you're right that Allen (sp) is the offensive MVP, no question. But that's just too easy, and has no analogue across the field. I'd also argue that while Josh Allen was still a work-in-progress, the Bills brought in Stefon Diggs, and we saw a TANGIBLE elevation in the play of our WRs across the board. That position group (Beasley seemed to REALLY blossom), and the offense overall, took on a more tenacious, competitive approach to every play based, in part, on the arrival of such a competitive SOB as Stefon Diggs. They were all pushed harder every day by a new personality who already had, and continues to grow, his reputation as an ELITE player. Von Miller is a similar, albeit EVEN MORE ELITE, acquisition. He outwardly preaches the gospel of being an elite teammate, whereas Diggs did it quietly for the most part. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Re-watching the game right now a couple of notes the king didn’t have anywhere to run And There were several defensive lineman that look surprisingly good what causes that probably improved play by the players beside them and another year in the NFL in the system I was one of those guys that didn’t think we were going to be able to keep Epenesa and all the other guys we brought in but beane made it work and I’m glad that he did The nice thing is the majority of these guys are very young they’re gonna grow up together in the NFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 3 hours ago, starrymessenger said: Not my view. On O its much more Alan than Diggs who elevates the competitiveness and expectations of those around him (including Digg’s). I see Von Miller as having that sort of influence on the D., inspiring his teammates, bringing the young ones along, instilling confidence etc…The fact that neither Diggs or Miller are home grown may be something that they have in common but that is to me irrelevant to the analysis. Diggs is a top shelf # 1 and in the discussion of the best right now. But I’ve got to say that for all the deserved kudos he got the laser and the long ball yesterday were the real story on those TDs. Many good WRs could have made those catches. Fewer QBs can make either of those throws. Few WRs could have twisted the DB inside and out like a squeezed lemon the way Diggs did on the deep ball. Of course the supply of great WRs outstrips the supply of great QBs. But I think a lot of Bills are still even in year 3 underrating how good Stefon Diggs is. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Few WRs could have twisted the DB inside and out like a squeezed lemon the way Diggs did on the deep ball. Of course the supply of great WRs outstrips the supply of great QBs. But I think a lot of Bills are still even in year 3 underrating how good Stefon Diggs is. Diggs is quickly moving up the WR power rankings his route running ability is close to second to none… He’s clearly in the top 2-4 … as a former corner HES the guy I didn’t wanna play a physical beast with limited route running is not the biggest problem for most corners … a quick twitch , precise route runner will have you having nightmares 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: Agree, but I would add that so far, the Miami RBs are just as potent in the check down/screen passes as actually running the ball. The RBs have averaged 62 yards in their first 2 games. Pass rushing and quickness might be more important this Sunday. Edmonds and Mostert are both smaller, quicker RBs. They are the opposite of a Henry. It does feel like it’s going to be a different style of game when I think of the Titans I think of Mauling brute force on both sides of the ball Miami feels like a track meet but I’ve also got this feeling that we’re going to be able to run the ball much better against them as well I just like to see the bills control every inch of clock and score at the end and make tua Make mistakes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Diggs is quickly moving up the WR power rankings his route running ability is close to second to none… He’s clearly in the top 2-4 … as a former corner HES the guy I didn’t wanna play a physical beast with limited route running is not the biggest problem for most corners … a quick twitch , precise route runner will have you having nightmares He is the best route runner in the NFL. Has been for about 5 years. I keep hearing people wax lyrical about Davante Adams's route running. And Adams is good, sure. He isn't as good as Diggs is. Best route runner in the league. Period. And this is no homerism. I have been on the Diggs train since before he was a Bill. Remember when some people thought Adam Theilen was a better receiver? Even more laughable now than it was then. Edited September 21, 2022 by GunnerBill 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Just now, GunnerBill said: He is the best route runner in the NFL. Has been for about 5 years. I keep hearing people wax lyrical about Davante Adams's route running. And Adams is good, sure. He isn't as good as Diggs is. Best route runner in the league. Period. I’ve debated coaches , fans , YouTubers , 2BDrs on his route running ability the only name I’ve ever gotten is DA… Adams is stronger and more explosive at the release (barley) but he doesn’t have the repertoire and suddenness of Diggs… they are right there but adams is more physical Diggs is more subtle Diggs is this generations Marvin Harrison 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BLUES Brothers Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 8 hours ago, Simon said: That's also my son's birthday. What year? (And don't say "every year" ) LOL! Chris was born in 1996 so just celebrated his 26th birthday. How old is your son? Chris grew up a Buffalo Bills fan because - well, his Dad and grandfather loves them. It is so great that since McDermott became Coach - he is able to experience great games and better teams to be excited about. He and his fiancé' were at the Monday night game and will be back there vs. Vikings. Go Bills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, The BLUES Brothers said: LOL! Chris was born in 1996 so just celebrated his 26th birthday. How old is your son? August is also 26. Our sons were born on the exact same day. 🤙 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I’ve debated coaches , fans , YouTubers , 2BDrs on his route running ability the only name I’ve ever gotten is DA… Adams is stronger and more explosive at the release (barley) but he doesn’t have the repertoire and suddenness of Diggs… they are right there but adams is more physical Diggs is more subtle Diggs is this generations Marvin Harrison Thats a very solid comparison. Same body frame. Not elite speed but enough to get deep. Great hands. Uses boundary well. Good post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 I know one player that does not want to see 57 this week.. Epenesa almost broke Tua in half last year. He might be the hardest hitter on the defense, he really brings it when he has the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 20 hours ago, Airseven said: I don’t trust Epenesa. He flashes and then disappears. Need to see more before he graduates from practice hero status. Ah, the Airseven we all know and love…, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Rc2catch said: I know one player that does not want to see 57 this week.. Epenesa almost broke Tua in half last year. He might be the hardest hitter on the defense, he really brings it when he has the opportunity. he probably won’t see him until the second half when the Bills are up 28 and the starters are resting, but he’ll see him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 11 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: Of course you're right that Allen (sp) is the offensive MVP, no question. But that's just too easy, and has no analogue across the field. I'd also argue that while Josh Allen was still a work-in-progress, the Bills brought in Stefon Diggs, and we saw a TANGIBLE elevation in the play of our WRs across the board. That position group (Beasley seemed to REALLY blossom), and the offense overall, took on a more tenacious, competitive approach to every play based, in part, on the arrival of such a competitive SOB as Stefon Diggs. They were all pushed harder every day by a new personality who already had, and continues to grow, his reputation as an ELITE player. Von Miller is a similar, albeit EVEN MORE ELITE, acquisition. He outwardly preaches the gospel of being an elite teammate, whereas Diggs did it quietly for the most part. Having said that Diggs is a top shelf # 1 WR and in the discussion for who might be the best right now (to the extent that those discussions make sense, which generally they do not) I don’t think I’m failing to recognize his value to the receiving corps and to the team as a whole. And I didn’t fail to notice the outside feint that froze the corner on the long ball though in truth he’s run much more difficult routes than that go. I don’t know if you follow the post game commentary but lots of pundits were crediting Diggs with Allen’s improvement and even felt they could point to his arrival as the time when Allen’s talent blossomed. While certainly the good chemistry accounts for much of the success they have both enjoyed that’s going too far imo. Josh Allen can make Kumerow look like a world beater and he was always going to be great. As for Von he is credited with taking the Rams defence to the next level. He actually made Donald a better player. He’s doing the same thing here. Few players can do that and I have no problem seeing him as the leader of this defence, which otherwise has many of the same parts but is much better, sometimes unrecognizable. And why not, He’s a first ballot guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I’ve debated coaches , fans , YouTubers , 2BDrs on his route running ability the only name I’ve ever gotten is DA… Adams is stronger and more explosive at the release (barley) but he doesn’t have the repertoire and suddenness of Diggs… they are right there but adams is more physical Diggs is more subtle Diggs is this generations Marvin Harrison Agreed- I’d like to add that his ability to “sell” the route to the DB is among the best ever. No team should ever put a CB on Diggs in man with no help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) Edited January 12, 2023 by YoloinOhio 5 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 He isn’t perfect, but he’s stout vs the run and gets hustle sacks. Really like the player he’s turning into. Lets not forget Boogie Basham is going through a similar body transformation. Confirmed last summer he is in the 265-270 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 On 9/21/2022 at 1:08 PM, NewEra said: Agreed- I’d like to add that his ability to “sell” the route to the DB is among the best ever. No team should ever put a CB on Diggs in man with no help. I generally agree with a few exceptions: the Dolphins, Bengals, Chiefs and NFC Conference Champs. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills404 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Not trying to dog on Epenesa at all, but Watt clearly wasn’t his usual self after returning from injury. It’d be interesting to see how AJ’s sacks per pass rushing snap (if that’s a thing) stacks up against some of the top pass rushers other than Watt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 He has gotten better but he does get pushed way out against good LT's creating a huge opening. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Just now, Royale with Cheese said: He has gotten better but he does get pushed way out against good LT's creating a huge opening. Von does that too, going wide too often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 I’m happy to see he is playing well enough to get off the TBD s%#t list. Hopefully Basham achieves that next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: He isn’t perfect, but he’s stout vs the run and gets hustle sacks. Really like the player he’s turning into. Lets not forget Boogie Basham is going through a similar body transformation. Confirmed last summer he is in the 265-270 range. Is AJ stout against the run? I ask that honestly. I have seen him make some plays but I also think hes susceptible to going way too far up field and losing contain, getting gashed with screen plays or runs between the tackle and guard. Of course the bad reps stand out more to me than the good reps when watching the game under the influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 14 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Where's the stat that shows the hurries or pressure that Watt creates opposed to Epenesa? You can't disregard that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: Is AJ stout against the run? I ask that honestly. I have seen him make some plays but I also think hes susceptible to going way too far up field and losing contain, getting gashed with screen plays or runs between the tackle and guard. Of course the bad reps stand out more to me than the good reps when watching the game under the influence. I think he takes himself out of the play too often against the run. Hopefully it's something he can get coached up on. Cause he does have some get off on his pass rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 We’re in the endgame now need Epenesa to show he can get it done 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Is AJ stout against the run? I ask that honestly. I have seen him make some plays but I also think hes susceptible to going way too far up field and losing contain, getting gashed with screen plays or runs between the tackle and guard. Of course the bad reps stand out more to me than the good reps when watching the game under the influence. No. They have taken a guy who was stout against the run and a power rusher who pushed the pocket in college into a situations pass rusher who attacks the edge well but struggles to hold the point of attack. It is one of the most interesting experiments I have ever witnessed. He has been a good role player this year but not sure the way his body is now you can rely on him to be an every down starter because of his moveability on early downs. 5 minutes ago, Motorin' said: I think he takes himself out of the play too often against the run. Hopefully it's something he can get coached up on. Cause he does have some get off on his pass rush. that allegedly is the reason the Bills were convinced to try the transformation. They loved his first step get off and thought slimmed down that could be used to make him a more explosive speed rusher. 8 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: Where's the stat that shows the hurries or pressure that Watt creates opposed to Epenesa? You can't disregard that AJE - 14 pressures TJ Watt - 13 pressures I mean TJ was never fully healthy so I'm not sure what it tells you but those are the numbers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: He has gotten better but he does get pushed way out against good LT's creating a huge opening. This. He sells out on a wide speed rush WAY too often, which causes loss of contain on the QB and a huge rush lane for the RB. It hasn’t burned us yet, but against a QB like Mahomes, he’ll immediately notice it and exploit. AJ still feels like a liability to me out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Rigotz said: This. He sells out on a wide speed rush WAY too often, which causes loss of contain on the QB and a huge rush lane for the RB. It hasn’t burned us yet, but against a QB like Mahomes, he’ll immediately notice it and exploit. AJ still feels like a liability to me out there. Less this year but I remember games last year where it cost us touchdowns. The Heinicke one vs the WFT stands out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Have noticed he is utilizing the Von "Ghost Rush" move and winning quite a bit with it this year...just came across this one... Used it to force Jones to get rid of the ball on the Tre INT. 4 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 42 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said: I’m happy to see he is playing well enough to get off the TBD s%#t list. Hopefully Basham achieves that next season. You're never truly off the list, I curse Chris kelsays name daily. 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said: Where's the stat that shows the hurries or pressure that Watt creates opposed to Epenesa? You can't disregard that IDK, but they both have 5 passes defended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Less is more or maybe Watt had to play more padding stats since Steelers offense was not very good this year. 1 hour ago, Big Turk said: Have noticed he is utilizing the Von "Ghost Rush" move and winning quite a bit with it this year...just came across this one... Used it to force Jones to get rid of the ball on the Tre INT. if our tackle played that bad of a snap the TBD auxiliaries would form up and demand he be fired mid-game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Wonder if some of our DE's issues getting gashed are scheme related, we usually only play nickel, and Milano is often looking to defend the TE on obvious passing downs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: He has gotten better but he does get pushed way out against good LT's creating a huge opening. 6.5 sacks in a 17 game season screams Chris Kelsay. I like AJ but let's not kid ourselves, he doesn't have an elite pass rushing move. As others have accurately stated, he let's the tackle take him deep beyond a qb "stepping up" every time. Never see a spin move inside or bull rush. I'm afraid 6-7 sacks is kind of his ceiling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, BruceVilanch said: You're never truly off the list, I curse Chris kelsays name daily. What about Ryan Denney? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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